How effective are life jackets in rapidly flowing deep flood waters?
I am surely not a swimmer, but after the recent tragic flooding in Texas, it got me and my roommate wondering...
They'll still keep you afloat, but the bigger danger is being hit by objects being moved by said water.
Also getting caught in debris and being pulled under harder than the life jacket lifts you up.
Life jacket still better than no jacket!
Indeed. I was in a thread on Reddit about exactly this subject, and it was truly bizarre how adamant a lot of people were about how you should not having a life jacket. They were pointing out all these things - you could get trapped inside your house, it doesn't save you from being hit by debris, it doesn't protect you against diseases that are in the water.
Yeah, those are all bad things. Don't jump into floodwaters for fun! Stay out of the flood water if you can at all possibly manage it. But if I'm in a place where I might end up falling into floodwaters anyway, it's far far better to have a life vest on than to not have it on.
But the life jackets help a fuckton when you encounter submerged of floating debris by helping you not g3t trapped and pinned by debris.
Most my experience is from kayaking creeks and rivers after large rain storms. Its as close as you can get to real flood conditions, in my opinion. The biggest danger is under tows amd getting pinned by the current against or under a downed tree. The life jacket is going to keep you above most under water obstacles that you would find your self pinned against without a jacket.
The biggest thing to remember if you are worried about being caught in a flood or have little experience swimming in waters with strong currents is: YOU ARE NOT STRONGER THAN THE CURRENT. You always want to let the current take you and focus all your energy on angling towards one bank or the other. Dont try and swim against the current battling to get to shore. You will get too tired to make it and will be helpless once your muscles are shot. Keep on ypur back and your head above water as much as you can and ride it out till the current calms down or the bank is close enough for you to touch ground.
Its scary as fuck being trapped under water but the only way out is to stay calm and not panic. Life jackets help in every scenario.
And you hitting submerged objects that aren't flowing. I remember cutting my hand on a rock while going through rapids with a life jacket on. You need to practice keeping your feet downstream when in whitewater conditions.
A life jacket can't effectively protect you against debris, but it can help keep you from drowning from exhaustion as you try to dodge and seek an escape. And if you do die anyway, it could help your body be found, for the sake of those who mourn you.
Not exactly true, yes if the debris is bad enough and the current is strong enough, there isn't a lot that will help. BUT if you have a life jacket, even in swiftly moving water, you can lean back and orient your feet downstream and it'll keep your head away from the worst of it.
That would be significantly harder to do without a PFD.
Good point. I guess people ought not only to have life jackets, but also trained on how best to use them in rough water. Although they're mostly kept near boats and things. Would having them hung on the cabin walls at Camp Mystic have saved lives? Not all, with whole buildings crashing around in the water, but maybe a few.
A life jacket is what can help save you once you exhaust yourself fighting against a torrent of water. If you need to do something a bit reckless to save yourself or someone else, then it can help you catch your breath a bit and keep your head above water.
The thing is, if you are needing to rely on a lifejacket, the situation may already be a bit desperate. If you are able to get some kind of an early warning system, then that will go a lot farther at helping you get to safety. Getting a lifejacket could help make a difference if you are in a potential flood zone.
A warning like a map of where the most dangerous fast moving flood waters will be? A place where cabins should not be built?
You would hope that no houses would be built in potential flooding zones, but that involves pesky things like ‘regulations’ or ‘caring about other peoples lives’.
A map? Hahaha, that's almost funny!
Coming from South Mississippi, it's up to Alabama as to whenever they decide to open their flood gates as to how many feet of water we get in a flood.
Hurricane Sandy flooded us deeper than Hurricane Katrina. Alabama has proven more than once that they don't give a shit about us down here.
Flood zone maps are only useful when those pesky humans don't intervene and open up flood gates and dams and shit. Oh, and humans literally created those things.
Nature is no longer strictly in control...
You want a Type-1, made to keep an unconscious adult on their back with their head out of the water for an extended period of time. I use type 3 when I canoe on the lake. I'm not a whitewater enthusiast. The type 1 are made for offshore shit where the person might be knocked out when they fall off the boat.
But yeah, in a flash flood it's only going to keep you on top. Probably get smashed by a tree or a car or something. Best to stay out of floodwater.
edit: but better a type 3 or even a ring than nothing. If I was in a hurricane or flash flood situation I'd rather have a type 1
I'm a reasonably good swimmer, I've had plenty of training and experience. And if I was in a flood zone I would definitely want to have a life jacket on. Being a good swimmer is only going to help a little bit in a mess like that.
Avoid getting into the water in the first place, of course. Flood water sucks. Climb on your roof, climb a tree, ideally evacuate before the water gets there. But if you're in a situation where you might fall into the flood water anyway, have a life jacket on.
Life jackets will save or can kill in sinking boats or planes. You cannot overcome them if you are trapped inside, floating before exiting.
I would rather have a diving BCD in most cases where floatation is needed. That enables adjusting floatation regardless of weight. They can be manually inflated in a pinch.
However, in a flood, the water is not as problematic as the debris carried in the water. You need to get out of the way and stay out of the water at all costs. If you are unable to escape the water front, you are unlikely to have a flotation device handy either.
If Texas is so incompetent of a government to be unreliable for flood warning. I would be looking at making my own solar powered remote sensor with a node radio network. There are cheap Arduino components to build such a thing for a hundred bucks these days. If government is so inept, making anything that appears official in nature somewhere remote will go unquestioned. You can do anything you want in life if you just wear a plain used white hardhat, a reflective vest, well worn boots, and carry a clipboard.
Remember: government has been made to be inept. It shouldn't be inept. This is just what happens when people repeatedly vote for people that say government doesn't work. Well, you guarantee it by voting in people who say such things! Like hiring a hater for a company's PR team, it's utterly brainless, and that explains why Texas has done it so much.
Another important design feature is that a properly worn life jacket will keep your face out of the water if you were to lose consciousness while wearing it.
A life jacket can't effectively protect you against debris, but it can help keep you from drowning from exhaustion as you try to dodge and seek an escape. And if you do die anyway, it could help your body be found, for the sake of those who mourn you.
Also: if it's physically possible for you, please learn to swim.
Thank you and everyone else for all the informative comments!
Back in 2014, I actually did kinda force myself to learn to swim, once, in a deep river with a current. I wasn't all that great at swimming, but I managed to resurface and start swimming towards the shore before someone else swam out to help me.
I think I could have managed to swim to shore myself, but at a struggle as it was my first time ever trying to swim. Regardless, at least I have one experience under my belt.
I'm impressed with your initiative! But maybe practice some more, in a safer place, with someone who can help you become more efficient at staying afloat and moving easily through the water.
With all the care, I would strongly advise you not to go with "you must be in a survival situation to learn to swim" cliché.
Not only is it, well, dangerous, but it also doesn't teach you to swim properly either. If you just try to stay on the surface, you'll expend a ton of energy and can get water in your throat which will complicate things severely.
You should learn to stay on the surface by breathing only. Pick a place with still water (lake? calm sea? pool?) and learn to lay down on your spine without movement. Do it near the shore, of course. Just put your body in a star shape, legs and hands extended, and learn to breathe in a way that allows you to float still. Once you learn it, not only you have improved breathing technique helpful in swimming, but you can also take a rest on water anytime to restore without even having a jacket in the first place.
Then, knowing how to breathe to stay afloat, learn to swim. Now you can save a lot of energy because you don't need much movement to keep you afloat, and you can just swim in the direction you need
"It's not that the water is flowing, it's hwat the water brings with it.
"If the water is carrying a Volvo, it doesn't matter how many crunches you did that day."
Idk, this guy might be fine taking on a Volvo.
And there's always adrenaline.
I believe in a flood situation what kills you isn't usually the drowning part. It's the being crushed by debris.
After riding out Katrina for two weeks flooded in, I found myself wondering where all the gators were, and very thankful that nobody was attacked by one (to my knowledge, at least in my area)..
Cuz we're definitely in a gator area...
Water is insanely powerful. As others have said, it could help you get tired swimming. It will not save you if you get pinned, or trapped in hydraulics, like the deadly ones at the bottom of weirs (those low dams, extremely dangerous. You get maytagged until you drown)
The best thing is to not live in flood plains or ecologically risky areas if you can. Research flood maps before moving somewhere. Extreme weather events will become more and more common as the planet deteriorates, unless we dramatically change our emissions, which is not a priority, apparently.
As I understand it, rapid flood waters will likely crush you to death with debris, or you'll get stuck underwater. A vest won't save you from either of those.
But if you have one, wear it. Swimming ability won't help you if you're unconscious or exhausted. Ideally, you stay out of the water, but if you can't, you'll be better off with a life jacket on.
The will work in that environment if you have the right type.
Life jackets also get caught on things. So if it's wide open and free from anything to snag on, great, enjoy the terrifying not-lazy river ride. If there are things to snag on, like I assume the Texas flash floods, then a lifejacket would also be a liability.
I've done some downriver rapids canoe/kayak stuff, by no means an expert nor even knowledgeable hobbyist. On a certain river trip, fast-flowing with lots of submerged trees, they had us drill unclipping jackets and wriggling out of them while submerged.
If the water conditions are so bad you would consider a life jacket a liability, you’re just fucked. The debris your jacket could get caught on is the stuff that’ll knock you insensate, and then you drown
If you're whitewater kayaking, it's not uncommon to have a knife accessible from your PFD.
It can be used to cut any ropes you might be tangled in or (worse case) cut the PFD.
In general, having a knife with you is useful in most emergency situations (and a throw rope, pin kit, plus knowledge of how to use them).
edit: Oops, this was supposed to be a response for the parent thread.