1y ago

Hey guys, why is it getting warmer? Did y'all leave the stove on?

Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2021_Survey_on_existence_of_global_warming_and_responsibility_for_climate_change_-_bar_chart.svg

252 comments

some people say the party divide in the US is based on gender. which may be true to some degree but really I think the true divide is intelligence
republicans have literally just become the stupid party
(source: my ass)
- This isn't just stupid. Anyone over 20 remembers that it wasn't this hot for this long. This requires that they tell themselves that the heat is for some natural reason.
  
  Or they pretend that that one really hot day that made the newspaper in 1972 is perfectly representative for the other 364 days, because it's always warm in summer.
  
  The average person, even in the southern US where it's warmer, seems to understand that it doesn't snow as much as it used to. I've heard numerous people mention it over the years. It's when you try to get them to consider why that might be the case that their brains start turning to mush.
  
  It isn't that way everywhere though. My part of southeast Ohio has consistently been below average. I know other places have to be extra, extra hot to reach the increased global temperatures, but millions and millions of Americans simply are not extperiencing any kind of increased heat.
- It's neither. It is wilful ignorance. All those studies sorting political affiliations by education, IQ and whatnot never show a difference that is nearly as large as these kind of comments suggest. There are small trends, but not more.
  The average IQ of republicans isn't much lower. They just choose to squander their potential. Never underestimate the potential often human beings to lie to themselves. It is one of our most honed skills.
  
  It's also probably a factor, that when you pretend global warming isn't man made, that you can't do anything against it so you don't have to change your way of life
- Probably could have added :
  Source: Fox News
- Or uneducated. Or actively denying reality. Some combination of the three.

A sizable portion of the population would convince themselves that the sky is green, if that was their party's official position.
And a sizable portion of politicians, of a certain moral character, would take the official position that the sky is green if someone paid them enough.
On an unrelated note, I wonder which party is heavily sponsored by the oil and gas industry?
- The answer, like in most countries, is both of the largest parties.
  Can't have the other party get in and get rid of your subsidies, bad for business, ya know?
- Unfortunately both.
  Not that the GOP's positions on climate change aren't far more deranged, of course, just noting that the Dems are also heavily influenced by lobbying.

- Rodents and insects. (Notably some species of caterpillar.)
  
  Really? I knew of the groundhog, but I thought that was it. Do you, by chance, know where I could learn about the caterpillar oracle?

Well, science doesn't care about their opinions.
- Elections do care about their opinions, and elections have consequences. Very serious consequences.
  
  Not really in terms of climate change were totally fucked on that one no matter which party's in power.
- Relevant xkcd
- We have a scientist LARPer in this thread begging for Bitcoin, right now. Does that count?
- Social science does.

And when you watched the clown beat the defenseless mime to death you saw it laugh. Then, the clown called the mimes mom's dirty names, waved a hitler flag and shot the mime. Afterwards calling him a removed and gesturing for his widow to call him later. He then slapped you in the face with a rubber circus dink, called you Ugly Stan and you called him by his first name asking for another.
After all of that, what do you think caused the clown to do such a terrible thing?
GoOp: "I don't think it was the clown."
- GoOp: “I don’t think it was the clown.”
  GoOp: "Akshully, clowns don't exist, also you just hate clowns!"
  
  Holy shit I am fucking howling at this.
  7am and my day is made. Thank you. Legit see BoBo trying to flex that in my head.

nore worried about the fact that of those that answered that global warming isn't occurring, only 50% still think that it doesn't exist in a different question. did the other 50% just suddenly reconsider?
- it looks like they got pooled between "doesn't exist" and "no" to "are oil and gas companies responsible?". "global warming doesn't exist and if it does it isn't their (our) fault"
- The other 50% believe in global cooling.
  
  And they'll be correct once the currents in the Atlantic collapse in the 30's.

GOP's good at brainwashing stupid and / or dysfunctional people. It's also good at attracting one issue voters who only care about guns, abortion, immigration, low taxes, etc.
Many people (if not most) are not that smart or caring. If you give them the one thing they want, they'll support you. Many people (if not most) are also bigots, and hate one group or another and you won't get them to change their minds by any means.
Republicans know this (they have psychological and media experts on their team who are smart, unlike their voting base) and use their knowledge to manipulate people with lies, and it works, just due to how human nature is.
Democrats also know this, which is why they don't seriously fight Republicans by compromising on some of their principles or also pandering just enough to get elected in purple / weak red areas. It's honestly just a power sharing agreement to keep things split 50 / 50 so the corpo donors can get what they want done while the average person gets distracted by the very public binary fight these 2 "parties" are always engaging in.
The only real answer is ranked choice voting and the formation of 2 additional parties. One that's fiscally and environmentally liberal and socially conservative, and another that's socially liberal, but fiscally liberal, and hopefully environmentally at least moderate.
People forget that most places on the internet are left-leaning or flat out liberal bubbles. Especially FOSS communities like Lemmy / Kbin. If you go out and engage people in real life, it's easy to quickly realize that people will keep voting in climate denying, polluting jackasses so they can keep their guns, or make sure abortion's illegal, etc.
Our best hope is young GOP voters who believe in climate change and want to do something about it, because they're growing up in this world, and will have to live in it too. Hopefully that Hawaii fire made even the rich realize that shit like that could happen to them during their vacation, and it'll make them give a shit. Anyhow, our best bet is to try to make deals with the next generation of Republicans, and also introduce ranked choice voting which can create parties and coalitions built around compromise and getting things done as opposed to ideological purity tests, which keep losing us the house and / or senate, even if we win the presidency.

I'd like to point out that this gets weirder when you realize that logically, they'd only ask someone if oil and gas companies are responsible for climate change if the individual previously answered "yes" or "don't know" to the question, "is global warming occuring".
- That would imply that anyone in the black on those bars either lied at some point, selected the wrong answer by mistake, or straight up didn't understand the first question...
  Spooky
  
  The first question asked about "global warming", the 2nd uses the phrase "climate change", and a significant percentage of the population -- and particularly Republican voters -- is made up of raging morons and brainwashed suckers.
  
  I can see that happening though.

I’ve known a guy for like 20 years, currently in his 60s, who firmly believes that anthropogenic climate change is entirely false.
He has a bachelors degree in physics, a bachelors degree in mathematics, and a Ph.D in economics. He’s written a handful of high level Econ textbooks, he’s worked as a professor off and on at 3 or 4 respected universities here in the US. He was most recently employed at a supply chain consulting firm, making an ungodly amount of money.
By all accounts, he’s an extremely smart, well-educated, well-read guy. But holy shit if that boomer isn’t constantly reposting the most transparently fake anti-science nonsense on his Facebook page. Think, “New research proves that Climate Change is a liberal myth” - The Religious Conservative Storm.
Just demonstrates how it doesn’t matter how educated someone is if they don’t think critically about information that confirms their expectations.
- There be people like that. My dad was a professor for applied mathematics at a top level university in Germany, published books etc. Nowadays he works as an indepentdent business consultants and is insanely successful on an international level. And while he does believe climate change is real he is very, uhm, alternative when it comes to health and nutrition. Think fruit juices and nutrition supplements and sun doesn't cause cancer and "holding a lazer to your heel makes your rotten teeth unrotten" kinda stuff. (Didn't work.) Watches weird ass youtube videos by "experts". Me, having a M.Sc. in Nutrition and Biomedicine, I am in no way an expert like these people or himself when it comes to nutrition, health and medicine, according to him. People can be extremely smart and talented in some parts of their lives and be completely bonkers in others.
  
  Yeah sounds very similar. And weird coincidence, but the guy I’m talking about is also German. Lives in the US now, but his parents don’t speak English, he came here as a kid I believe.
- I know a highly educated seismologist who makes his work his hobby and has been an enthusiast for nature-related pursuits for decades...
  And he thinks people have next to zero contributions to the climate. His go-tos are volcanoes and sunspots to explain climate changes, and he blames, I kid you not, the "big green energy hoax" for conflicting data.
- He has a bachelors degree in physics, a bachelors degree in mathematics, and a Ph.D in economics
  Now, I'm not saying he is or he isn't--you know this guy and I don't. But are you actually sure all of these claims are true? Dudes who fall for this shit tend to lie a lot. Just saying don't take it at face value. Econ in particular seems like an area where it would really be easy to "fake it til you make it".
  
  No that’s a totally valid question and I’d wonder the same thing.
  But he definitely is all of those things, he’s got a dozen published nonfiction books that are easy to find, with a picture of his face on them haha. Listed as faculty/former faculty at Utah State University, CSU Chico, two BYU campuses, University of San Diego, University of Malaysia. Reasonably high profile on LinkedIn.
  I used to go on family vacations with this guy’s family as a teenager, his whole family are genuinely some of the best people I know. But he’s a perfect example of the incredible power of the confirmation bias. I just try to remember that someone like him can have such seemingly obvious blind spots, I definitely can too.

There are far top few meaningful differences between Republicans and Democrats, but stuff like this shows the base (not the leaders) of one party is at least amenable to reality, and the other largely isn't.

They mainly blame it on the sun or they just see it as "natural warming" just the way ice ages have existed.
For example: here's one of Germany's leading right wing populists (and inbred nazi descendant wannabe noble) Beatrix von Storch saying: "Well maybe we need to tell the sun to shine less!" when being asked about how to tackle climate change.
- So these people have a choice: they can accept their way of living is a reason for the current catastrophe. They need to stop enjoying cars, that schnitzel mit bratkartoffeln and start building those wind plants also to the south.
  Or they can start blaming the refugees and the women with tattoos.
  
  stop accepting bribe money from fossil fuels companies (or at least use their bribe money to build up wind & solar)
  The sad reality is that they allowed dismantling functioning windmills (which RWE is definitely going to rebuild somewhere else *wink *wink) to expand the Garzweiler lignite pit (with lignite being literally the worst type of coal to burn)...
  
  schnitzel mit bratkartoffeln
  Is this a joke I'm not getting? How does a german dish contribute to climate change? Or do you just mean meat in general and that was a specific example
- Obligatory xkcd
- Those are just excuses they come up with on the spot because they feel correctly they are being put on the spot when asked about it. All human actions are about avoiding negative social consequences and that's what they're actually worried about.
  That they think they need to justify themselves offers at least some hope, however.
  
  I really think it's ironic that we are risking the destruction of systems that have been stable for hundreds (or even thousands) of years just to save a system that isn't even stable enough to handle an Elon Musk tweet
- Does she have a proposal for how to do that?
  
  Of course not... Those kinda humans never have proposals.

Concrete and steel production accounts for around 20% of co2 emissions, so it’s not only oil and gas companies (although it is still mostly from oil and gas companies).
- Steel production at least could be MUCH greener; they're just choosing less green options because they're cheaper. We could make co2 emission more expensive, force the entire industry to greener alternatives, and not significantly impact production capacity.
  Conflict of interest: I'm an engineer who produces steel using greener (but more expensive) tech than the rest of the industry.
  
  Which, of course, puts you at a competitive disadvantage compared to those who use cheaper but less green tech. Which just goes to show why we need regulation.
- Should probably be "fossil fuel" since the CO2 from concrete and steel production comes from burning coal.

Literally anything done to any fossil fuel lobbyist or executive is an act of collective self-defense.
- You heard it, folks! I'm inviting them to a $10K per head campaign dinner where I will sternly suggest they explore the possibility of researching a serious scaling back (5 bps!) of coal mining.
  For our self-defense
- Only if it actually contributes to stopping climate change.

why is the "climate change doesn't exist" bar for the second question so much smaller than the "no" bar for the first question? am I an idiot or does that just not make any sense?
Death to America
- They consider themselves temporarily embarrassed millionaires. So when corporate profits are threatened, they get defensive to the point of changing their beliefs on the spot.
  They aren't just lying to us. They're lying to themselves.
- it exists but... isn't happening? idk

All I know is that I keep my oven and stove running with the AC on and the windows open. I'm doing my part by wasting as much energy as possible. Wait… did I miss the point? /s

The most interesting people are the ones who claim Democratic party identity and yet accept the Republican position on this. I'd be interested to talk to one of these people to learn about their worldviews. Single issue voters for something like abortion? Just don't like the color red? I need answers.
- In other news there are more than two sets of opinions in the world?
  This is my biggest irk about two-party systems. Everyone identifies as one or the other when in reality you're gonna agree with 20-50% of the policies of one and 40-80% of the policies of the other, yet because they identify as a supporter of x party they feel have to pretend they can do no wrong
  
  I mean, that's why I said I'd be interested to talk with someone who espouses that view. Party identification has maybe never been stronger, and the positions of the two parties have never been farther apart on many issues.
- Single issue voters for something like abortion?
  Or just not single issue voters for climate change.
  
  Sure. I think I meant this comment more as trying to understand what kind of information and media a person like that might be consuming to arrive at "climate change is fake and also vote for democrats." It's just an interesting cross-section.
  My guess would be someone who doesn't really consume much media at all, or maybe part of the broad subset of "anti-science left" that also end up in some anti-vax conversations

“It's already a hundred ten in the summer, and if it gets one degree hotter, I’m gonna kick your ass!” --Renee Descartes (1596-1650)
- Good thing they aren't alive anymore to see the record breaking straight 30 day 110 plus heat in Phoenix, AZ.

What bothers me the most about it is that the Republican answers of "No, climate change doesn't exist" and "Companies don't cause it because climate change doesn't exist" should be the same set.
The ones agreeing and ambivalent make perfect sense. Basically no one who believes in climate change thinks the companies are totally blameless. Great.
But the blue bar should be eating from the grey bar, not the black.
- Assuming that all the same people answered both questions.

I recently discovered !climatememes@lemmy.world which you all might like.
- Proper format is !climatememes@lemmy.world I think
  
  May your next poop be wonderful! Blessings upon thy stool.
  
  Thank you! Fixed.

You're all responsible. Filthy westerners

Aren't there enough political "humor" communities?
- Climate Change isn't political, it's a simple fact.
  
  Given that the Republicans have adopted the stance that it's not real and/or not our fault, I think it still counts as political. Even if it shouldn't be.
  
  You and I both know that. I'm just asking, aren't there better suited communities? Does everything need to be doom and gloom on a reasonably light-hearted memes community? It isn't a meme.

I have a PhD in particle physics from a top 10 university in the world, and I don't believe climate change is a problem. And I'm also not interested in discussing it (just so that no one comes with bs talking points, I've seen enough). I'm just saying this so that you don't stumble on your own delusional bubble too much.
You don't believe in science. You believe in TV. You haven't read a single peer reviewed paper on the matter, let alone papers that have a different point of view. So spare me your condescending bullshit.
Now go ahead and downvote me so that you can sleep better at night after having excluded me, the infidel. Just remember that many people out there have degrees, educated and read 100 times on the matter than you and disagree with your delusions on the matter. Enjoy four faith in TV.
- I have a second question you say there are people who have read 100x more than us. Where is their work? Everything I can find says the climate change is real and it's human caused.
  
  This is proof that you only watch mainstream media and think you know everything. This is the problem. You never even considered researching the opposite opinion, and you think it just doesn't exist.
  And people wonder how censorship makes people more ignorant.
- I have a PhD in particle physics from a top 10 university in the world
  no you don't
  
  This is good bait but I almost totally believe it, the kind of person who spends a decade being told they're a very smart math boy at a top university is extremely susceptible to believing every whim of theirs is genuinely brilliant
  
  Today is your lucky day. Since I'm in a good mood, let's see if you'll put your money where your mouth is.
  I will reveal my real name, my PhD thesis, with a link to the university linking to my thesis. Here's the bet: if I can prove it (that I have a PhD in particle physics from a prestigious university of top 10), you pay me one whole fucking bitcoin. If not, I'll pay you one bitcoin.
  We'll find a betting platform (of your choice if you wish) where we deposit these bitcoins into a multisig address with a referee. One of us wins based on the bet.
  Are you gonna put your money where your mouth is? Or a dick where you learn not to open your mouth next time?
  What do you say?
- I have a PhD in particle physics from a top 10 university in the world, and I don't believe climate change is a problem.
  I have a JD and I'm telling you cancer isn't real
- I haven't seen one of these in a minute.
  You're going to die in hellfire.
  
  I think we can all predict what the response will be lol
- https://www.nytimes.com/article/climate-change-global-warming-faq.html
  https://globalchange.mit.edu/publication/18043
  https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/what-is-climate-change
  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-to-believe-in-antarctica-rsquo-s-great-ice-debate/
  https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2019/06/SR15_Full_Report_High_Res.pdf
  https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar4/wg1/
- I have a PhD in particle physics from a top 10 university in the world, and I don’t believe climate change is a problem
  My brother in Christ, you could have stopped here. Your post doesn't even make an effort to support your argument (no papers, no evidence), you're only spewing bullshit like you're better than some people on the internet. Be better.
  
  You're confusing me with someone who gives a shit. I'm not here to argue science.
  You're in a cult. Evidence doesn't matter. Otherwise you would've found the evidence yourself. It's the same shit I face with religious nut jobs defending their ancient books. So spare me your ideals. You're all brainwashed and do zero due diligence and have faith in TV and call it science. That's the current zeitgeist.
- nice bit lol
- Sheldon Cooper, this you?
- Share your peer reviewed papers and research that disagree... the ones that have you convinced.
  I mean a PhD in particle physics doesn't make you an expert on climate physics any more than my degree make me one, and as you've said plenty of people with plenty of degrees have come to differing opinions. The majority of climate researchers do agree that climate change is real, but if you post the sources that have you convinced, I'll read them as I'm sure some others will.
- And I'm also not interested in discussing it
  If you're going to cry about how you can't defend your argument keep your dumb opinions to yourself
  Another one for the block list
- Since about 1980 experts warn about climate change.
- (X) Doubt
- Lol imagine having a phD and typing this dumb shit thinking it makes you look intelligent
- Leave alone? X times?
- I have an undergrad minor in sustainable energy systems engineering and they taught us how to look up ipcc reports. Whatever university you went to sucks dogshit if you didn't get that far in your PhD program.
- source: my ass
- I have a PhD in ~~physics~~ WolframAlpha
- You can measure community's IQ by how far down you have to scroll through "dumb republicans, amirite xdxdxd?" before you reach a post like this one. And that guy with gifs in every message is obnoxious as fuck.
  
  Correct, the best communities clown on this garbage or just delete it.
  
  Totally accurate. Intelligent communities should not have climate change denial anywhere on the site
  
  Check. He's the cool kid in town!

252 comments