French Car Brand Renault To Go Completely Leather-Free By The End Of 2025
Renault has said that all of its cars will be completely leather-free by the end of 2025, following discussions with PETA France
I never understood leather car seats.
Can someone here explain to me the appeal of car seats that get extra cold in winter, extra hot in summer, and that will get all sticky against my sweaty leg if I sit down with shorts...
One advantage is that they are usually much easier to clean, stains that soak into regular fabric can often just be wiped off from leather, however I do believe it's usually about leather having a more "premium feel".
Leather feels much nicer than cloth. I prefer my seating surface smooth.
I don't remember the last time I had a car without heated seats. I've had a car as old as 2003 (bought for 3k) that had ventilated seats. The are also ways to make sure your car is the right temperature by the time you get in it.
Besides I like to believe that humanity has somehow evolved. In certain parts of the world… at least. Why the need to skin animals for leather? Seems barbarism, pre historic and out of date…
As I wrote elsewhere, I believe there are still cases where leather really makes sense from a comfort/durability standpoint.
I, like most people, still eat at least some meat, so it seems rude to not make good use of the rest.
I mean, that is extremely easy to answer.
The real answer for the modern world is that leather is a byproduct of the very shitty industrial meat industry. The meat industry already has more leather than they can get rid of and it regularly goes into landfills. From an environmental standpoint, it is much better to use the leather than almost all other materials used for those tasks which burn oil and use oil to create them (every leather alternative is simply shitty petroleum-based non-recycled plastic, every one). From a moral perspective it is shitty to give more money to the meat industry, but they make the vast vast majority of their profits on the meat and not the hides. If everyone switched off of leather right now, the same amount of animals would be brutally murdered, but instead their hides would be dumped in landfills and the ocean after stripping it off of the meat.
This isn't even getting into waterproofing. Almost all clothing waterproofing is petroleum or animal oil based (wax is either petroleum or harvested from bees) except for natural rubber which also has a bunch of negatives.
Because they won't let us use human skin for seats in our cars like we all actually want. You know regulators, bunch of removed little girls.
Leather car seats might be very appealing for those with young children, as it's far easier to clean food, drinks, and dirt, off of leather than cloth.
and crack after a few years of use. and stain depending on what gets on 'em. great if you want to burn your kids asses I guess.
They're comfortable, super easy to clean, and stay in great condition with minimal effort. My car has cream-colored leather seats with a seat warmer, so they're a comfortable temp in both summer and winter.
Agreed. My mum's car and my boss's car have leather seats and I hate it. Both of my cars (and almost every other car I've ever driven in) have fabric seats, and they're infinitely more comfortable. And I presume considerably cheaper.
Because they are so comfortable and everything you said applies to all car seat materials.
Hmmm this feels like green washing to cut costs.
Isn't leather mostly a byproduct? Leather boots and car seats can last decades, which could reduce waste.
What are the alternatives and what are they made or? Afik the alternatives are usually petroleum based don't last as long and introduce micro plastics
Would like to see a proper study on the alternatives and their long term impacts compared.
Despite its reputation, leather is definitively not a byproduct. The modern leather industry does not reduce the waste of animal agriculture, it collaborates in it. Leather is best viewed as a coproduct, meaning that the two industries are distinct, but inextricably linked.
The global leather goods market is gigantic, and Grand View Research predicts it will reach USD $405.28 billion by 2030, up from $242.85 billion in 2022. In 2020, global production reached 12.5 million tonnes and included the skin of over 1.4 billion animals. (That’s nearly 20 percent of the entire human population at the time killed within a single year.)
Apart from the staggering inherent environmental footprint of raising cattle, turning hides into leather itself has a significant impact. So significant, in fact, that Collective Fashion Justice believes turning hides into products creates more CO2e emissions – about 110kg per square meter – than simply putting them straight into landfill. (Which is very likely where the product will end up rotting and producing emissions eventually, anyway.)
It’s also not just cows that are used to produce leather. Hides from sheeps*, lambs, goats, and pigs are also frequently used, while animals such as crocodiles, alligators, snakes, kangaroos, zebras, elephants, and more – including rare, endangered, and keystone species – are hunted specifically for their skins, frequently for luxury accessories by high-end brands.
Fashion designer and vegan icon Stella McCartney, who uses plant-based alternatives to leather in her various products, previously told Plant Based News (PBN) that the idea of leather was a byproduct was “sheer nonsense.” She added: “I’m here to let people know that’s a lie that’s been created by the meat industry and leather boards.”
https://plantbasednews.org/news/environment/the-problem-with-leather-cruel/
The global leather goods market is gigantic, and Grand View Research predicts it will reach USD $405.28 billion by 2030, up from $242.85 billion in 2022.
I have generally rather mixed feelings about leather, but that seems like a ridiculous number to use as a reference. As far as I can tell it's the total price of the sold goods?
Which includes lots of stuff that has nothing to do with the leather...
Luis Vuitton is going to be raking in millions whether it uses leather or it switches to hemp or whatever. They're selling prestige and brand, not real products.
(In the current political climate "going woke" by cutting leather would probably backfire in terms of image... But if they silently switched from leather to plastic noone would notice given the quality of their leathers)
The single largest producer of micro plastics is car tires. The second largest is lint from synthetic clothing. I agree that it's probably green washing but it's still probably better than using leather.
Even if leather is a byproduct of meat production, it's not given away. It's sold. At best, leather is subsidizing the meat industry. Leather helps make animal suffering more profitable. Therefore it happens more.
Unfortunately the meat industry isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so what do we do with the hides?
It makes sense to me to use it to make Boots etc. that lasts decades, instead of throwing it in the trash and using petroleum based alternatives.
Leather boots can, in my opinion, have their place. Leather shoes are often more hard-wearing, comfortable and maintainable, then many of the alternatives.
That does not include leather sneakers because in those the construction and sole will self destruct way before the leather, so you have a shoe with good upper and a crumbling sole.
But leather upholstery always seemed to me to be hard to justify. They seem to me to be functionally inferior and way more expensive.
Car seats... Noone ever had to change car because the seats were worn. And leather is hot in summer, cold in winter, and sticky against sweaty skin.
Office chair... Really? I have mine with a mesh back just to breathe a little better.
And with a couch... Just why?
I've had both leather and cloth car seats, the cars I've owned have all been ~10 years old, the leather seats looked really good after 10 years no issues. The cloth seats I had in one of my cars were literally falling apart.
Leather is also spill proof, Kids smeared peanut butter all over your seats? No problem just wipe it down.
This is just my personal experience, so yea mileage and results may differ.
The only mass scaled alternative is synthetics made from oil.
Until a sustainable alternative reaches scale. This is lip service for vegans.
The only mass scaled alternative
The only mass scaled alternative with an identical look and feel. There are plenty of alternatives if you don't need it to look like leather. Like the infinite variety of fabrics.
Swing and a miss information
I have a Renault 5, was one of the first owners of the new EV model! It’s a fantastic car, but interestingly, the whole interior material is.. denim! Seats, trim, everything. Even the inside of the roof! And it’s made out of recycled blue jeans. How cool is that?
Oh, good. My first instinct was that they’d use that plastic fake leather stuff. I really dislike fake leather. It’s not very durable and really difficult to mend when damaged. And it’s so very sticky in summer. Denim sounds like an amazing option though.
Very cool!
It's so ugly, though. It looks like a Fisher Price toy. Nothing like the original R5. Same for the 208, this generation of cars is horrible. Massive square tanks.
I mean.. I disagree? I think it looks like a retro-futuristic Mini Cooper or something. To each their own.
This poses an interesting question...
Which is worse the suffering and exploitation of animals for their skin, or releasing more plastics in the world?
The leather industry keeps the environmental destructive beef industry alive.
The Beef Industry Knew Its Climate Impact as Early as 1989 — and Worked to Obfuscate the Science
Unfortunately, The beef industry isn't going away anytime soon. What do we do with the hides if we don't use them to make Leather boots etc. ?
It's hard to believe that using (likely petroleum based) alternatives, has less of an environmental impact than using something that would have gone into the trash.
Sure leather supports the beef industry, but if it didn't we'd still have the beef industry, and what do we do with that leather?
Edit: I thought about it a bit more, the less people use leather the cheaper it will become. It will still be used, because it's so useful, profits will just go down a lot, so less money for the beef industry. So that's a win.
I did not know cars still had animal leather in them
Most cars can be bought with leather seats, that is a standard option on basically all cars.
The steering wheel is another component that often is wrapped in leather.
I mean I thought they were synthetic leather not real animal leather
I just did a quick check
†Leather appointed seats are a combination of genuine and artificial leather and are not wholly leather.
Yeah far out :|
I suppose that would be the case in India.
Fabric is superior in comfort and cost.
But if you absolutely want leather for looks/stain resistance, there historically hasn't been much of a choice. Plastic fake leather alternatives degrade pretty badly under UV light, causing cracking/flaking after just a few years. As anyone who has owned a fake leather chair or jacket would have noticed. But the expected lifetime of a car interior is measured in decades.
The article mentions some startup innovating on new synthetic hemp-based fake leather, it'll be interesting to see if they can match the long-term durability of genuine leather. Otherwise it'll be a shame if those interiors fall apart in 5-10 years, reupholstering an entire car is not a small job.
That is certainly one way of dressing up the use of cheaper materials.
Hopefully they are not replacing it with some form of plastic.
Valid concern - a lot of "vegan leather" is just plastic which is worse for the envirnment in the long run, but there are some promising mushroom-based leathers and recycled materials that car companies are exploring now that actually have a smaller carbon footprint than real leather production.
Someone mentioned that leather is obvi very hot in full sun, but one other small detail missing from this discussion is that it being so hot becomes a bigger problem when you're wearing shorts, skirts, etc. that expose skin on your thighs where they make contact with seat. Obvi, with current fashion standards this effects women way more then men, and has always struck me as one of those invisible, little ways that the world is designed by default by/for men (like with seat belt safety, high stools for presenters, etc.)
Seat belts are so annoying! I'm 5'4", which is average for a woman here. Yet everyone and everything acts like I'm short! Seat belts, even at the lowest, cut into me. Car seats are only just enough for me to pull forward but have enough room between myself and the wheel but only just! Kitchens are not designed for me and you'd think this would be the place people would design for women but noooo! I'm lucky husband's mother redesigned her entire kitchen to her height (ie mine) because every other kitchen is like "surely you are at least 5'8" right???"