Professor's got it right

I never will understand how somebody gets into any facet of medicine (e.g. nurse, doctor, pharmacist) and find it okay to deny anybody healthcare solely based on how the person lives. Like dude, there are better ways to make money and be a bigot at the same time. Insurance CEO comes to mind. Cannon fodder as well.
- Because nursing school will shove you through even if you should fail and it's an affordable 2 year degree that pays. And that's how I ended up explaining what the P in HIPAA stands for and how to operate a mask. White trash nurses are a meme.
  
  Only one P in HIPAA actually. Common mistake. https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/php/resources/health-insurance-portability-and-accountability-act-of-1996-hipaa.html
  
  My first college was a technical college that also trained nurses. If there’s one thing I learned it’s that nurses have nasty hygiene habits. Hopefully that gets washed out (pun intended) in the field; eventually.
  
  I'm in a med lab program and they talk so much shit about nurses in our lectures (no offence). They even hire actors and we do conflict resolution exercises like phoning an exhausted nurse to let her know her third draw just got rejected and they need another sample or order of draw problems ect...
  
  ...HIPAA has one P.
- What if the patient is a health care CEO who is known for denying health care to others?
  
  Definitely treat them. Really enthusiastically. And let everyone else in the building, perhaps people whose inaurance is fucking them, know what room it's in. Obviously stay on hand to make sure nobody gets any mortal injuries. Bill it extra for every part of that. Do not let your patient die. Dying us bad; think of everything left in the world for your patient to do!
  This is a happy fantasy. I wish doctors were this cool.
  
  Make sure to leave out the patient name and occupation when filling out the healthcare paperwork to see if they are covered for whatever procedures they need.
  
  Hippocratic Oath. So you turn off their life support obviously
  
  I would still help them, I may stab right after tho.
- Same answer to both; cowardly traditionalist afraid to speak their minds.
  From traditional/conservative families which value the status of being a doctor, not the "helping patients" part. Prejudiced.
  
  This.
  There are so, so many doctors who ended up in the profession merely for the prestige.
  Doctors aren't smarter than everyone else, they just had the resources to be able to study for more years.
- On a similar vein, I don't understand doctors who are young earth creationists. Your whole job is understanding biology.

The absolute gall they have to call it a "lifestyle" like people choose to live that way one day
It's not a fucking lifestyle, LGBTQ+ people just are and they exist
They don't choose to suddenly be that way one day, they have been that way their entire life and discover that about themselves
- "Ah, but they choose to act on it! You see, my old preacher struggled with gay thoughts all the time because of Satan. He told us so nearly every Sunday. But did he act on them? No! He was straight, just as god intended.
  So those people having gay thoughts are CHOOSING to be gay when they could pray and get a wife and have children like the lord said."
  -Some dipshit I know
  
  "He resisted his homosexual urges, and remained faithful to his heterosexual wife until the very day he shot himself."
  
  No this is literally it though. They think being gay is a choice because they’re repressed, and constantly feel tempted. They assume everyone feels that, and only gay people give in.
  
  As I said to my parents when they said something similar:
  Not everyone is a 0 or 6 on the Kinsey scale. Plenty of people have some amount of choice. But not everyone is a 3, either. Most people have a preference. And some people are a 0 or 6. Just because one person with “gay temptations” successfully lived as a heterosexual doesn’t mean everyone can. The world is more complicated than that.
- Here's the thing, whether or not it's a "lifestyle" shouldn't even enter into the equation. Healthcare workers are supposed to treat everyone the same, regardless of what the patient has done or how they live. If you can't deal with that, don't go into healthcare.
- Well, it's a bit of both. The ostracized nature of 'different' people has spawned several sub-cultures that most 'different' people fall in to to some degree or another.
  Not that anything is wrong with either being different or living differently. Hegemonic monocultures are so... fucking... BORING.
- I've even seen it flipped around by the people who invented the term in the first place. "They call it a lifestyle, but that's a euphemism for gross behavior". Well, not those exact words. "Euphemism" has too many syllables for their education level.
- Not suddenly, but gradually
  
  They gradually do not choose to be themselves? I don’t understand.
  
  Very much not true for all. Some realise things over time, but most were born like they are. Some also do choose things, but it's a very small percentage and that in no way makes it any less important to accept and support.

"I refuse to treat left handed people. It's a lifestyle I don't agree with."
- This was or maybe even still is a thing. My grandpa was forced to wear a sock on his left hand when learning to write as a child. He would be hit if he didn't.
  
  Human beings were obviously a terrible idea.
  
  Back then he would be hit either way I wish I could go back to being a kid and approach adults discipling me with my current knowledge.
  I'd ask for beatings and pretend to get pleasure from them. I bet suddenly you get no more beatings.
- Stupid sexy Flanders...

"Is this career path okay with discrimination? Because I have groups I want to die."
- It is important to consider both sides on any issue. Thank you for keeping things Fair and Balanced.
  _/s
- I don't trust anything about this... meme? I don't know what we call context-less clips of other people's comments that get circulated.
  Whatever it is, it is trying to sound positive but it's implying some false narratives. It's implying that this is a common or new issue that professors are always dealing with, that there's some common wave of pushback against treating LGBTQ patients. If you're studying to be a doctor or healthcare professional, most likely you already don't give half a fuck about someone's gender identity or sexuality unless it impacts their treatment. (Yes there are some bigoted healthcare professionals out there, but they're not the norm.)
  The narrative here is making it seem like poor, naive students are now suddenly worried about how they're going to deal with all these trans and gay people flooding the healthcare industry.
  If it's not subtly trying to introduce a false narrative like this, it's serving that purpose all the same and should be buried and not circulated any further.
  
  As someone who attends a medical school attached to a religious university, I can tell you this is a mindset that exists quite commonly in the medical field. Many of these people get careers in the multitudes of Catholic hospitals that abuse religious freedom laws to deny certain kinds of healthcare and face absolutely no repercussions for their persistent bigotry.
  
  Medical malpractice is a huge issue for LGBT people - especially trans people who require specific care and are therefore much easier to spot. It's honestly a big issue in the sciences in general, and it's definitely not a new issue, but more likely against specific groups. Women are much more likely to have to be their own advocates to get proper care, often being denied pain medication, told that they're just making up their symptoms, or having their agency denied or choice of treatment being deferred to their husbands (generally when it comes to things that might affect sex, such as surgeries to constrict the vagina after giving birth or having their uterus removed due to medical issues).
  And it's not just that trans people often have to understand HRT at a doctorate level in order to fight for their right to the proper care and treatment that they deserve. I have read plenty of stories of trans people being denied care by bigoted healthcare workers - even a case of a woman in New York who only found out she had an aggressive form of cancer after the technician who diagnosed her tests called her to ask her how her chemo was going. Her doctor simply never told her the diagnosis and the only reason that she's still alive is because of that technician who made sure that she got proper treatment after the shock of hearing that she didn't even know that she had cancer.
  Bias affects medicine all the way up the chain, from how nurses treat you to what gets taught in schools and even what fields get research funding. I taught my therapist pretty much everything he knows about transgender people, for example - because he's older and they didn't teach about trans people. And I have no qualifications in the field other than being trans and therefore having to teach myself to ensure I get proper care. Many doctors don't know about trans specific medical care despite HRT starting to be researched in the 1920s in Germany (and only reappearing at the end of the 20th century after the Nazis burnt all the research). The medical field is taught based on the white body of a specific weight, which leaves out the differences in care that black people and people above or below that weight require. We only really started looking into what exactly female ejaculate is in the past 30 years or so. AIDS research was denied funding by the US government for at least a year while roughly 120 Americans died of AIDS every day, during which time all bottled medication was pulled from stores and the safety seal was developed and implemented over the course of 3 months because somebody poisoned a couple of bottles of Advil with cyanide.
  It's not a new issue, but it's become more prevalent in recent years as people like the student above have become emboldened by recent events - like the rulings that say that doctors don't have to treat certain people if it would "violate their religious beliefs."

What I always find funny about this is, back when I used to do IT, if I refused to do something for someone who had bible verses on their office wall or a cross necklace I would be the one fired.

In many countries it's illegal to refuse treatment so you would literally have to find a new career
- But of course in the Christian-sharia-law state of Tennessee, doctors can refuse patients if they don’t fit their values or whatever. A woman was refused prenatal care because she wasn’t married.
  
  This type of stuff is extremely concerning to me. My ability to get life saving medical treatment is based on the whimsy of some superficial judgment some random doctor makes about me? There is no way this can be legal.
- it's also against their Hippocratic oath.

I mean, this is correct. You take the oath, you have to live up to it. You will be treating people you don't agree with, and you have to square up with that, or your rep will take a dive.
- Oaths are not magic spells. Mengele and ishi were both md's.
  
  To be fair their reps did take a dive.

A friend of mine is a devout Muslim from a very conservative family and a doctor: he believes that his faith has no place in his job and therefore treats all his patients equally.
I think fundamentalists of all religions should take a leaf out of his book.
- Please give him my gratitude for his level of professionalism. I mean it. We need more people like your doctor friend in the world today.
- His faith demands he treat all patients equally:
  "whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity" Qur'an 5:32
  Nor can he impose his beliefs on others:
  "Let there be no compulsion in religion" Qur'an 2:256

Someone being LGBT doesn't mean McDonald's is allowed to refuse them service, or ESSO is allowed to refuse to sell them gas, or a gym can refuse them membership. Why the fuck do you think a doctor should be allowed to refuse them treatment for a disease?
- Someone being LGBT doesn’t mean McDonald’s is allowed to refuse them service, or ESSO is allowed to refuse to sell them gas, or a gym can refuse them membership.
  Patience, patience ... the GOP is working on this as well.
  
  Technically they aren't. By their plan, someone who is LGBT couldn't be refused service at McDonalds because they are to be arrested and thrown in jail on sight. Like, how would they have even gotten into McDonalds much less have the gall to ask for a Big Mac?...
  
  Finally someone is doing something.
  /s
- Doesn't this fall under the Hippocratic oath anyways? Or am I mistaken
  
  The oath is a promise, not a law. People break promises all the time.
  
  not mistaken, but certain roles like pharmacists, cashiers, nurses, dentists and lab techs dont take that oath. Many doctors now take alternate oaths too, not the original oath.
  
  The Hippocratic oath doesn't cover this at all and actually explicitly forbids abortion and euthanasia. It's really quite antiquated which is why I wrote an oath for myself that I hold to.
  There's a lot of debate about the specific meanings of the text, but there are many Christian physicians that will latch onto those passages as an excuse to apply their own beliefs to patient care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
- What? They can totally do those things. They are private businesses who can reject whomever they want. Protected classes are only protected for things like housing, employment, and public things (school/utilities/etc.)
  
  If that were true, the US would still have segregated lunch counters, grocery stores, and private buses. The Supreme Court may be getting us on the way there one day, but right now the only way that private businesses are allowed to discriminate against protected classes is to call the output work a "creative expression" like website design, floral arrangement, or cake decoration, and that's from the 303 Creative case.
  Besides, how would it make sense if a company could bar you as a customer for being gay, but be compelled to employ you?

This would never fly in today's era. Nor should it.
But about two decades ago I dated a gastroenterologist... I think she had around 13 years of schooling.
Anyways, her first day of med school, they made the entire class watch gay porn. Like vicious, graphic, excessively graphic gay porn.
With of course the professor saying if this makes you uncomfortable, you'd best find a new track. Because you ain't going to make it, this is going to be your life: assholes, boils, pus, cancer, shit, piss, if you're going to be a gastroenterologist you're going to have your head up people's asses your whole career....
Etc
- And then there were those who got a rock-hard boner and wondered for a completely different reason if this career was for them.
  
  Well, there's always
  
  Lol
  Apparently this was not boner porn nor wap porn.
  By the retelling, its was nailing balls to a step stool kind of porn.
- This would never fly in today’s era. Nor should it.
  I believe we already have individual states that allow health care providers to refuse care based on their religious beliefs.
  So unfortunately, it seems to be flying alright.
  
  Pretty sure they were speaking in reference to the anecdote they were about to relay.
- Wonder if there were any jars involved......that would be a pretty unfortunate situation.

Damn straight. Same thing for pharmacists or any other health official.

If medical professionals are punished for refusing to treat patients because of race, then the same goes for refusing to treat someone for "having different lifestyle".

i dont know who or what to blame but some healthcare professionals are among the most cruel members of society
- Some think they know biology sooo well, and that LGBTs are anomalies not worthy of life
  
  Hospital worker here. No amount of education can undo the dogma of right wing extremism. You wouldn't think hateful bigots would be counted among nurses, doctors, etc since they literally spent years studying exactly why they should know better.
  But then Fox or some preacher starts hating on trans folks and suddenly their medical knowledge about the community is just straight into the dumpster.
  They need to be fired.
  
  That line of thinking also breaks down once you consider that life itself is the OG anomaly, and that the evolution of complex life was fueled by a never ending torrent of anomalies.
- Because of their religious beliefs. Someday as a nation we need to reconcile religious freedom with freedom from other peoples religious ideas. We generally just give religious people whatever they want, presumably to shut them up and make them go away-- but that doesnt work.

Doctors and nurses see and take care of a lot of disgusting people, or people in disgusting states in all walks of the life. Them being LGBT should be the last hill for them to die on. Only shows how sheltered they have lived.

I have doctors/technicians in the family.
And... WTF.
Do the students know the horrific, gruesome, batshit crazy stuff doctors have to witness and deal with? Not just like objects stuck in orifices, but mentally ill and abusive patients, deathly contagious ones, slow motion tragedy, stuff oozing out of the body you wouldn't believe. Criminal patients, criminal bosses and companies, drama with staff, corporate drama, other fucked up or abusive doctors, drug abuse (from the staff), plenty of sex scandals...
...And their thought is: "Patients that want to rub their genitals on the same sex? Eww. I refuse to deal with that, even professionally."
Wut?
Let's play devil's advocate and say the bigotry is somehow justified (when it's not). Still, how does that even work? Like, an anti-vaxx nurse I know makes at least some sense, by comparison.
- Apparently in Tennessee it is now legal for doctors there to simply not treat people they don't agree with their "lifestyle".
  Couldn't pay me enough to live in a red state. Might as well move to a third world country for how backwards they all are.
  
  "Woah this guys a millionaire you say? I'm afraid I cant operate on this man due to his choice to be wealthy."
  
  I'm in a red state. All we do is look at the blue states and weekly Whisper "help us"

Excellent. And they can take the pharmacists who have "personal or religious beliefs" and get rid of them too. No one should need to ask some other citizen's personal permission for a service I contracted with my own doctor and medical company.
There are even some drug store cashiers that will refuse to sell condoms. Americans need to learn that if it doesnt affect you personally, its not their place to pretend they are a stakeholder in anyone else's life. Stay in your effing lane, American healthcare workers. No one cares what you dont like or what your personal sky-fairy tells you. Last I heard "freedom of religion" was actually more "freedom from the tyranny of religion" when it was implemented by the nations founders.
While they are at it, Americans should stay out of other peoples bedrooms too. If they arent part of the situation, they don't get a vote. As long as its consensual between two adult humans, its no one elses business what they do in there.
<eagle cry of freedom right here>

It is sad that this is apparently considered to be impressive or even noteworthy.
- It immediately makes my "Manipulation Sense" tingle. They are making it sound like this is a common or reasonable question from their students. Or that this is some kind of new issue that doctors are dealing with.
  So either there really is a new wave of young up-and-coming health professionals who are absolute dogshit morons for even asking this kind of question, or this is being circulated by someone deliberately trying to stir up shit, I just can't figure out which direction they're stirring. (Hint: it doesn't have to have a direction, misinformation and public discourse sabotage consists of just amplifying all the wildest and most extreme takes on both sides of any issue to keep people from wanting to get involved or trust anything at all.)
  
  I feel like there are a surprisingly large percentage of the population that just take most things at face value. It takes something painfully overt for someone to notice, and it's usually only spotted on something trivial, like fifty thousand five star raving reviews for a beer coozie on amazon.
  Astroturfing is real, and if you don't think that a government would do it... Wow you have a lot of history to catch up on.
  
  I actually think you're right

ah yes, i too considered being a doctor so i can feel comfortable in my job. but then i realized when I'm treating a severed limb in an accident trying to stop buckets of blood flowing, that the person might be gay. ew, imagine. so i decided it's not worth it.

I wish this is how it was at my medical school. My med school is attached to a deeply religious university and some of our professors said some pretty wild shit in lectures. I was almost always the one to key up on the mic in recorded lectures to fight them on it.
I'm sad to say there were a couple lectures that I was just too demoralized to fight back directly, but I did talk to my classmates to correct the record after those lectures.
- Deeply religious and... Medical School feels like two things that should be separate lol. Wouldn't the solution for Cardiac Ataxia be to pray it away in their eyes?
  
  It is an actual, accredited medical school and we still take the same board exams. The subjects where the religiosity shows the most are the ethics classes, abortion, and LGBTQ+ healthcare. Otherwise, the most prominent manifestation was prayer at the start of lectures and exams.

In the 90s I had two different doctors tell me they would not see me as long as I was sexually active. Things seem better these days but its part of the reason us older gays are loathe to disclose to our doctors.

This culture war nonsense has ruined us. In a humane world a person should be embarrassed and shamed for saying something like 'what if I don't feel comfortable with their lifestyle' - in ANY situation, not to mention a medical one. How about just some basic human decency? What about live and let live? Ideas that we'd all want for ourselves but somehow some of us find it so difficult to afford to others.
And before anyone comes at me with some 'paradox of tolerance' nonsense - no, in the tolerant world I dream of, there is no room for the intolerant. We cannot tolerate the intolerant if we want to live in a tolerant world.
- Nah, the paradox of tolerance is exactly about not tolerating the intolerant. The solution is not tolerating the intolerant. It's just called a paradox because to stupid people it sounds contradictory, just like how appropriate self-defense can include offense: Just because someone's throwing punches does not magically make them bad if they didn't start the fight.

The patients sexual orientation does in fact have no influence on their health. The only groups out of the LGBTQIA+ spectrum where you have some "right to deny" healthcare may be trans and intersex people due to them having special conditions and you might not have the knowledge to treat them accordingly. For the rest you are just batshit stupid if you care that much about what people do in their private time.
- that doesn't mean you refuse to treat us though, it just means your treatment might take the form of giving a referral to a specialist. you don't refuse to treat a patient with glasses just cause you aren't an optometrist.
  
  Yeah, that's why I put it in "" to make sure its not really denying it.
- Yeah, I’m going to echo the other comment - I don’t think doctors should ever be able to deny trans people healthcare. If it’s something out of their expertise, a referral might make sense. But right now there’s a lot of movement towards denying us healthcare, and I don’t think we should be giving that side any more excuses for their bigotry.
- I partly disagree with your reasoning but I agree 100% with your conclusion..
  I think that statistically heterosexual women have some significantly different healthcare needs than lesbian women and gay men and straight men also have some statistical differences, but as a healthcare professional you have no right whatsoever to refuse to treat based on those differences.
  (I wouldn't count referral to a specialist as a refusal to treat.)

Student: B-but what if I can't stand the sight of blood!?
- Republicans: we hereby decree that physicians needing to see blood is part of the woke agenda. Henceforth we will be removing this requirement from all curricula.
  
  Federal Directive 774B-2: In all official documents the word "blood" shall be replaced by "God's life-giving fluid".
  
  Blood is a hoax created by the liberal media.
- That would be like if you were in IT and had a phobia of keyboards…. or screens.
  
  Ooh I love this analogy! And LTBT+++ would be "but I don't like users with trackballs instead of a mouse"
  It's absurd.
  
  BRB claiming disability
  Edit: or I would be back if that didn't blow my cover

Its disgusting that Republicans have tried to push for this cruelty.

Isn't this like a decade old at this point?
- Seems it'll remain relevant for another decade, at least, possibly more
- And sadly never been more relevant.
- I wish memes were properly sourced...

Now you can just move to Tennessee and practice there, they have a law now protecting doctors who deny care for personal beliefs.
- Are they still considered professional doctors if they are willing to do harm to their patients by ignoring the latest scientific research on patient care because it makes them feel icky?

It is the responsibility of a medical professional to provide care to their patients regardless of their personal opinions of the patient’s lifestyles. Sadly, I read an article just earlier today about an act which attempts to undo this, the so-called Medical Ethics Defense Act in Tennessee in the United States. Shameful what things are coming to.

Or move to Tennessee.
They want doctors who hurt the people they don't like.
- Tennessee has some of the worst health care rankings and health care outcomes in the country.
  
  When I lived there we had hospitals that were "no-go's". I was looking to get a surgery done, and everyone I worked with told me not to go to $hospital_X, but instead go to $hospital_Y instead.

What if I wanna be a chaotic-good doctor and deny nazis treatment?
- You're a doctor not a judge. Criminals deserve treatment even the worst ones.
- Find a different career
- Thats seems to be a slippery slope. Unfortunately.

And then everybody clapped.

It's interesting that no one wants to deny medical care for:
murderers
pedophiles
thieves
corrupt politicians

I mean, that is sweat and all as something that particular professor thinks, but doctors in the United States don’t have to treat anyone they don’t want to, and we already see them denying prenatal care based on marital status. I’m sure sexual preference are just around the bend.
- Citation needed. So far there has been one instance, in Tenessee, where a horrendous law was passed recently to allow that.
  That law is a state law. As in, only in Tenessee. Not the whole country.
  Things are absolutely shit, amd headed for worse, but let's not spread falsehoods please.

Did they discussed treating an old orange pedophile?

what about uniformed nazis or uniformed zionists?
- I am an orderly that was in surgical services and we had a young girl covered in nazi tattoos that came in for surgery. We had to care for her the same as anyone else. Of course we all talked mad shit after that anesthesia kicked in.
  
  I agree there. The talkin shit after is where the “fun” happens. Because yeah. We have to treat but that doesn’t mean we need to not process what we just went through.
- "So who can I refuse treatment to?"
  "That's the neat part. You don't."
  
  never have refused. never will.

- That's a bit much there.

Look I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but let's try and be a little nuance about this.
I don't think it is moral to force someone to do something they don't want to do for whatever reason. Eg u shouldn't be allowed to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to completion. Nor should u be forced to help said person end that pregnancy if you don't want to. I think if u don't want to end it you should be forced to give them the contact of someone who will.
If you are going to force someone to medically treat someone for something you don't want to do, u by definition do not believe it is beneficial to them and is thus a violation of ur oath.
- The oath is broken before anyone forced anything. Treat people, or find another career because health care is incompatible with this homophobic bullshit.
  
  Depends on the oath. Most say "according to my ability and judgment" which I think would include ones personal moral judgement.
- If you become a medical profession, do your job. End of story. Leave your personal crap at the door or get a new job.
  
  If u become a soldier do ur job leave ur personal crap at the door or get a new job. U just justified the actions of the Nazis "I'm just following orders".

This is almost assuredly a false narrative being introduced to make it seem like professors and schools are having to deal with some "flood of LGBTQ+ patients" who the new healthcare professionals suddenly have to deal with.
Just because the message seems positive, doesn't mean it's serving positive goals.
- When I go to a hospital I really hope the doctor is fully focused on getting me better, not my gender, looks, or whether or not I'd like to suck dick.
- what goal does it serve in your opinion?
  
  Normalizes the notion that it's normal at all to say things like "What if we don't feel comfortable around X" when most of liberal America is fine or uncaring at worst. Of course a professor will dismiss the question, it shouldn't be seen as something exceptional, it's not heroic to tell an idiot to shut up. It's continuing the atomization of ideologies. I don't even care if it's something that really happened, this kind of shit is used by both sides to ramp up hysteria. But I guess that ship has long since sailed.
  If you haven't spent time actively reading and understanding how the right thinks, talks and shares with each other in their own online spaces, you will think it's ridiculous, so I don't know why I tried to pass the message along here in these very sheltered communities. Maybe it will give someone something to think about.