Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭

It's really not the team size, but rather the management that comes with it.

The devs aren't the problem 99% of the time.

Well I wouldn’t say that exactly. GTA 5 had a huge budget and a huge team and it’s objectively a better product if you compare the two (which is only to say they’re both great games but the bigger budget game has and does more).

It’s a matter of the motivations of the developers and their financial backers. If your goal is to make an ok game that maximizes profit focused mechanics, most of these AAA developers are hitting the mark perfectly. If your focus is to make a good game like it seemed to be with the BG devs, they absolutely hit the mark and are being rewarded for it.

This is just a reminder to an industry that is trying to tell us that pay to win mechanics are the standard that they do not in fact get to dictate what those standards are. We do. If a game is shit people will abandon it even if you poured millions into that product. The recent battlefield game is a prime example of this. Even something as guaranteed as a new battlefield game isn’t enough to overcome a shitty leadership team emphasizing the wrong things. The community bailed on their product and they’ll never get them back. All those millions in guaranteed revenue are gone forever.

💯

When I read 'AAA devs' in this context I see it as 'AAA game development companies' not programers and artists working in them.

Not AAA devs, they’re doing what they can.

Blaming consumers, in this instance. You could well be right that the problem is internal but in that case that's where it needs to solved. Or if they want to get the support of consumers, be honest with their reasoning. Crying that the expectations of consumers are too high doesn't help at all. It just makes them seem out of touch with reality.

This is partly why I ponied up full price.

I want more games from Larian.

Perhaps? But Skyrim is also 12 years old. Whatever team is working in Elder Scrolls 6 is certainly not smaller than Larian's.

Skyrim had under 100 employees.

Sorry, I'm neurodivergent. Can't tell if this is sarcasm.

It's disappointing that AAA studios don't recognize this. I don't want a bloated game that takes 300 hours to experience most of it. I don't want a giant map. I want a good game. I want a small map filled with life, not a large one with soulless procedurally generated dungeons.

I'm just putting it out there that I have finished almost 3 different playthroughs and I would 300% purchase DLC.

If the initial game is a full game and satisfactorily so, I would gladly fork over more money for additional content.

DLC is not inherently bad. It's just the way most companies have done it is.

We have to go back!

But also legitimately. Like remember how good games would get near the end of a console's lifecycle? Then a new console generation would drop and the games would look sharp, but also a bit wonky, until enough years has past, and thennn... another new console generation would drop, and the constraints would disappear again. Always too soon, I thought - just as the games were getting truly good again!

Educate a pleeb here, I've been out of the gaming loop. What's the notable exceptions of great games this year and what two that are not state-of-the-art graphics do you mean?

Completely agreed. The issue is that gamers™ aggressively advocate for better quality, and do not care about workplace abuse or worse products with more features. This creates the current feedback loop we have where games that are longer, have flashier features, and aren't finished at launch.

Labor unions and protections would be excellent, but isn't something that I, a non-game developer, can do much to advance, besides avocation.

I dont think I agree. Gaming darlings tend to be immitated, and I'm honestly here for it. Dark Souls led to a bunch of mostly shifty knock-offs with some gems. Same with Skyrim, Minecraft, Mario, Diablo, Stardew Valley, etc. I love turn-based strategy games, immersive sims, and narrative games, so I hope this inspires all sorts of knock-offs, but you're probably right that it will be rare in AAA unless the indie knockoffs sell great for a few years.

...but I paid full price for D4 and still got a half baked game with an invasive in-game shop.

Dota 2 did it really well, it was and still is an amazing game, and you couldn't pay to get any gameplay advantage.

I sank a lot of money into it just to support such system.

But now a small, indie studio comes along with a grand slam and they don’t like it kind of makes them look bad by comparison.

Larian is similar in size, if not significantly larger, than Bethesda when they made Skyrim.

"AAA" in price tag only.

(Content may vary. Please purchase premium battle pass to see more details.)

You're not referring to Larion as a small indie studio right? They are not a small indie studio.

Critical mass has been achieved.

"They don’t actually care, they just want clicks and perceived relevancy when people repost their tweets to reddit"

Kinda sounds like real media to me then lol they all suck if they're major corporate media.

A lot of journalists do care, but they also have a job to do and a boss that tells them which articles to write.

Like I don't care about whatever business my company is competing in, but I'll keep working for them because they pay me.

Lmao Ubisoft of all folks should shut the fuck up about UI, they are literally the source of the meme about cluttered and overly complicated UI. If Ubisoft is complaining about a UI I have to automatically assume it is a good UI.

Also, if AAA developers have been paying attention for the last decade, they would know that consumers have valued quality and shown disdain for MTX since MTX started becoming pervasive. MTX overall can generate a lot of revenue, but it isnt sustainable, hence why there is always some sort of FOMO characteristic included with the MTX system, making things limited time and constantly shovelling low effort "new content" to fill out the MTX system.

They've been working for almost a generation now on changing the mindset of gamers as to what they should expect from a game, and here comes a really good game from a little known studio doing exactly what games used to expect before the mind changing was attempted.

Kojima got away with his product placement in mgs3 because nobody in the west knew calorie mate was a real product lol.

BioWare didn’t just make games similar to Baldur’s Gate, they created Baldur’s Gate.

High budgets are killing the film industry. In the case of gaming, it plays a factor, but greed is probably the main issue. Most big budget AAA games in the past made large amounts of money even if they didn’t have universal appeal. Because companies realised that they could make large amounts of money off loot boxes, microtransactions, cash shops and battle passes, they started trying to funnel players into games, mainly so that players would buy things. That’s one of the main reasons the AAA industry is getting worse: games need to appeal to as many as possible, while coming out as fast as possible, all so that players will buy the overpriced in-game items endlessly shoved in players’ faces.

I can't remember who it was. A famous actor, anyway. They were talking about what's happened with movies. There's nothing in the middle.

It's either $100m+ or less than $3m. Either it gets a big producer and they pump so much money into it that it must be safe because it can't lose money. Or is a small producer doing it for the love, but a small budget doesn't go very far. The risky narratives done well would be funded somewhere between the two extremes but it's just not how it's done anymore.

In a strange way, to get more money in for the riskier productions, we need to get the money out of Hollywood. Can't see it happening, myself.

That's because these executives don't care about learning. They want examples that they can use to rationalize their shitty decisions.

So the answer is for the ones who make nice things because of a nice system they have to just stop because the other crabs can't get out of the bucket. Maybe their beef should be with their idiot boss, not with the guys who do the work.

Whatever happened to companies learning from other's successes instead of trying to keep others down?

It isn’t developers just being pissy this is their way of trying to stop their idiot boss from ruining their current project or making massive projects without enough time or staff.

Unions.

Dont say no thank you, give them the middle finger

You could also do both, for that slightly comedic type of reply. Keep them guessing.

I actually agree with you. People praise BG3 as if it were the most perfect 10/10 video game in existence. Its far from it. It is riddled with bugs reaching from minor to game breaking. The best example is the very first few seconds of the game. The first thing the players are likely to interact with is the tadpole pool after awekening on the ship. ::: spoiler Minor spoiler It explodes, knocking you back and causing damage. :::
\ As someone who made a few characters and played the intro section a lot, the animation is often times bugged and confusing. And thats the first interaction a player has with the game.
\ A few seconds later you stand in front of a door. Usually the door opens and you can go through. But sometimes the opening animation doesn't play. This happened on my very first time playing and I couldn't figure out where to go, because my first instinct wasn't to clip through the closed door. Things like this are absolutely unacceptable in the tutorial area.

Even though they already have full controller support it is very clear why the console release is delayed. The console player base is expected to be a lot more casual and unless they iron out all the confusing bugs they run the risk of people being frustrated and dropping the game.

And then there are other major things.

• Why is there no native option for 3rd person WASD movement even though it is fully implemented for controllers?
• Why does only the controller get a search area function but the keyboard doesn't?
• Why is there no camera sensitivity for controllers?
• Why are there no deadzone settings for controller joysticks?
• Why is there a 1 second delay on movement when using a controller?
• Why can't I set the text size below 64px when using a controller?
• Why in a game that has been in early access for so long and a world full of magic can't we change our characters appearance post creation? (I know it's announced but why just now?)
• Why do we not have advanced difficulty settings? (I'd love the enemies to be smart like "tactitian" but not be unhittable bullet sponges.)
• Why is every adult character so goddamn hot in this game? I need my blood in my brain.
• Why can we select a player voice, if the player isn't voiced beyond some minor quips?
• Why isn't there a random name generator for your character?
• Why can't I shift + click multiple items or containers to queue them up for pickup or search?
• Why do container windows open on top of each other or other inventory windows?
• Why can't I rename containers in my inventory?
• Why can't I filter out or hide wares in my inventory?
• Why can't I sort or filter items during trading or in the party view?
• Why do containers always open in a 5x2 grid instead of trying to fit all the items without scrolling?
• Why can I skip the rolling animation but not the success-continue animation?
• etc.

\ I know I'm nitpicking here, but for a game that is as highly praised as this, I expect it also to nail all those minor things that other games have already figured out already (some of which were even their own older titles). Especially because it was Early Access and they had a lot of user feedback. I see it times and times again that studios apparently throw out all their previous knowledge of videogames and seemingly start from scratch on every title, making small stupid mistakes that could have been easily avoided. It's like the research process for video mechanics and UI never consists of actually looking at other games.

So for me, it's a very pretty game, its a beautifully sounding game and even a very fun game. But nowhere near a 10/10. It's a 7/10 game. Fix the bugs to bump it up to 8/10 implement some QoL for 9/10 and release modding tools so the community can make it a 10/10.

Stupid question, but have you been letting Steam do game updates?

Unless you've changed the default settings, you have to let Steam do updates while not playing any games through Steam. By default it won't do any updates in the background.

And then you need someone to foot the bill for all that. Preferrably ahead of time.

That's kinda how lucky Star Citizen got, but that's not a business model you can replicate a second time.

Dreaming of riding an army of unicorns to battle.

Hollow Knight is the definition of "Rockstar-level nonsense for scope"

I can't believe the large majority of it was made by two people. I have 70 hours in that game and still have a couple things I haven't beaten yet.

Also cannot wait for Silksong!

no one is acting like this is unique.

Yes actually, they are. That's the entire reason this debate began; some developers claimed that Baldur's Gate 3 is a unique occurrence and should be treated as such, rather than an example of a AAA video game meeting the expectations of consumers.

I think that was the point the person you replied to was getting at: not only is it completely fine for consumers to have these expectations, but it's actually not even as rare as these developers are making out. There are other examples of AAA development studios and publishers who aren't engaging in blatantly anti-consumer practices, so the ones that do really have no excuse.

Not supposed to be a pissing contest - I'm just saying Baldurs Gate isn't unique in being a game that respects the player as a person and not an ATM or fool

I've got BG and it's fantastic, so I'm happy either way if it does influence some change at least

No, that was 2. That mechanic and plot point doesn't exist in 3. 3 has very little, if any, fanservice, most due to its dark subject matter (infinite war, limited lifespans)

And yes, AAA. It cost multiple millions, hundreds of staff working on it, hundreds of hours of VA including notable UK talent (Jenna Coleman, etc), a fully orchestral soundtrack by Yasunori Mitsuda recorded in multiple countries, and the game itself pushes the switch to breaking point. It absolutely counts and is considered by Nintendo as one.

There's loads of other examples of decent single player experiences without bullshit, this one just came to mind first. And I hope Baldurs Gate's success brings more like these

And warframe has been rewarded with a practically methusalian lifespan for a game in its genre, I hope we see the same for baldurs gate 3 with a similar level of ongoing support and improvement.

That’ll happen when pigs fly.

Hell, when customers actually learn to have some self respect for themselves.

I’m not sure about toys, but watching my son grow up with app stores has made me very aware of how so called “games” have been monetizing our children makes me want some real legislation and restrictions on what is legal to market to children. The “idle” category of games is just egregious. They’re a flimsy and thin veneer of game painted over a bank machine. AAA is not much better - they just have more complicated routes take your money.

But I was told every individual ruthlessly and insatiably acting solely out of greed for personal gain — regardless of ethics, morality, or empathy — was the greatest, most efficient, bestest, freedomest thing to have ever existed?

Why would corporate sociopaths lie? What could they po$$ibly have to gain?

The picture in the OP is PR for a publishing company. There are many other accounts of people who work in the industry who are angry/jealous of Larian. You're probably just not looking in the right places.

I can’t find developers doing this.

This entire story was started by game developers on social media (Twitter) complaining about consumer expectations in the wake of Baldur's Gate 3.

From all that I've seen it's more like they are trying to dismiss the success that Larian has found by saying that they are a special case which is nothing but smoke and mirrors. Larian did hard work and are being rewarded for it.

Who in management exactly? As far as I know Larian is not responsible for the tweets aside from just making a good game.

Or the other trend these days, Wich is to remove content from the base game and sell it as dlc or just money-gate it even if it's on the base disk/release.

I don't necessarily believe this to be universal. I've played plenty of games with cosmetic mtx that I can absolutely play without the desire or need to spend money.

I know and I fucking hate it. I was one of the fanboys defending them even through the first SwSh trailers, but the more they showed stuff the more it was clear it wasn’t the franchise I used to love anymore.

Co-op is excellent. Drop in/drop out works flawlessly, no lag. It even has LAN options in the year of our lord 2023. One issue is that a player can start an encounter without the others and people can miss out on story. All in all highly recommended.

Co-op is legit, only had a stuttering issue that we all experienced in a certain area. But we reloaded the save and it worked fine again

It looks graphically good and runs fine on older graphic cards.

Yes, but not older processors, apparently, as I found out. I sure as hell never expected a CRPG to be the first game that screams at me to get a better one.