Opinion: Small screen, big investment: TV episodes have become way too long
Small screen, big investment: TV episodes have become way too long
Just the messenger! Discuss.
Bring back 24 episode seasons, so we don't have to cram so much into 8 episodes.
Most shows like that though didn't "cram" much into most of their episodes though. They were often at least partially episodically designed where the cast just solved a weekly crime, or case or slayed some monster and then soft-reset at the end with only small effects to the wider season/series arc.
One of the problems these days is that that they take a good concept for a movie, and stretch it into an entire series full of slow spots and too much exposition, when the whole story could have been tightly told in a 2 hour film.
Then there's the acoloyte where they had a flashback episode even though the season was only 8 episodes long.
Flashbacks are fine. Its the recap or highlight episodes that are a sure-fire sign that the writers are out of ideas.
The problem with a lot of those shows from back in the day is they were filled with a lot of filler, and I don’t mean the “monster of the week” in between larger arcs counting as filler. Writers said they didn’t have time to really care about all 22-24 episodes, so many were half assed. Then you have the budget constraints, which would lead to bottle episodes, because there never really was enough budget to make 22-24 episodes a season. Every once in a while you’d get people who try, and you’d get something like the famous Breaking Bad Fly episode.
When Netflix started doing their own shows at 13 episodes, you’d get people complaining that they were just stretching it out to fit 13.
Personally I think 12 or 13 episodes is a good balance and I liked that we got a higher number count on something like Andor. 6 episodes of something is often way too short.
Ive been watching through Workaholics lately and I like their model of starting out with 10 episodes for the first couple seasons and then cranking it up to 20 once they become popular. This seems like a great solution all around since you can give a show time to grow and not cancel it just as it's gaining traction a la Netflix, while giving the fans more to see once it's become successful. If a show turns out to be unpopular, studios don't have so much upfront investment and can cancel it after 2-3 seasons.
The counter to this is why not let the artists cook (hehe) unconstrained from somewhat arbitrary episode lengths. Those lengths were originally created to make a nice cookie cutter TV schedule. HBO used to actually brag about not being confined to set blocks of time and giving shows like the Sopranos the option of running long or short if they needed to.
So in the days of streaming, why does that matter?
Why add 10 minutes of filler to an episode that doesn't need it? Or cut important plot points that might not work well in different context because you're at 34 minutes already?
Why not give a show room to grow and evolve (Ted Lasso is a great example)? And The Bear certainly fits this mold.
As for Stranger Things, those are basically just three movies, not your traditional episodes.
Counter-counterpoint, movies don't have limits to their time, but they are still edited down. Having a tight, concise story is still important. As well, I'd personally prefer longer seasons instead, 16 episodes over 10.
I point to Snyder's JL cut as an example against lack of restraints for artists in general. That guy clearly had no one to reign him in and it shows.
Imo, working within restraints is what makes art/media pop. Obviously shoving everything into a single mold isn't the answer, but I don't think letting artists meander endlessly will result in anything particularly interesting.
I miss seasons being like 20 episodes long. Don't they have any idea how hard it is to keep finding new shit to watch when all their series come out 8 episodes at a time.
After not watching them for at least a decade, I'm going back through the old Star Trek seasons (specifically Next Generation, DS9, and Voyager), and each season is between 22 and 26 one hour episodes. So much great stuff!
Yeah I rewatch them every couple years. They're good stuff.
It must have been brutal putting out an hour long episode of sci-fi every two weeks nonstop for years and years. I don't blame studios for moving away from 26 episode seasons but 8-10 22-minute episodes with a new season not releasing for another 1-2 years is bullshit. It was funny to see this in Stranger Things where the kids gave gone from looking like 5th graders to fully grown adults in the span of two seasons.
Are you a friend of DeSoto?
It used to be 1 year for 20 episodes now it's 2 years for 8
8 episodes that would have been a 2 parter in the old days.
Not only 8 episodes but sometimes the entire 8 episode season on one day which can be watched in an afternoon. The new season comes out 1.5 years later and you have absolutely zero recollection of what happened previously.
Yes and no I miss filler episodes in sitcoms and nonsense like star trek and comedies like IASIP.
I detest making docuseries longer than 90 minutes unless it is outrageous and twisty.
I did like non standard episode counts because I told myself they werent beholden to a certain number and could just tell the story but GoT ruined that theory.
Really? I find American stuff feels so drawn out with like 20 episodes.
It certainly can but it depends on where a show is at in its lifespan. If you're on season 6 or 7 of something, you're going to see a lot of filler episodes.
Yeah but there's way more series made now compared to the 00s and 90s when 20 episodes a season was the norm
I'm not too bothered by variable lengths but I do think the lack of time constraints can lead to bad writing and show making. If the episode needs to be 40 mins, fine, but sometimes it just feels like as no one is saying "cut this back, tighten it up" so episodes become uneven or series sprawl and never get to the end.
Exactly. It’s like a book with no editor.
Disagree. I think a much more common problem is that there isn't enough good stuff to fill all of the available time, so the writers have to put more filler in and it makes the show terrible
The traditional HBO model of being approximately 30 minutes or 60 minutes, more or less, was reasonable. Some episodes were long (Sopranos Season 4 finale was 75 minutes long, about 25% longer than its time slot), and some were short (Sopranos season 2, episode 8 was only 43 minutes). But they generally stuck around that time frame, and the majority of the episodes were between 50-60 minutes long.
The Bear's shortest episode was 18 minutes. Most of its episodes are between 30-40 minutes. But it has two monster episodes, season 2's "Fishes" at 66 minutes, and Season 4's "Bears" at 69 minutes. Those ratios are way off, and hard to plan sequential non-binge watching. At a certain point it's disrespectful of the audience's time.
I like the length, especially when not constrained by broadcast TV time slots (e.g. you can get a few extra-long episodes for finales and such). I think my biggest gripe is the hyper-serialized format making every season a 10 hour movie.
Getting back to the episode length, then I guess some series could benefit from being twenty, 30-minute episodes as opposed to ten 1-hour ones. Never thought I'd say this, but sometimes you just need a "filler" episode.
Edit: Gonna tack on my second gripe. You only get ten episodes and then it's nearly two years between seasons for some shows. By the time the next season rolls around, I've completely forgotten the prior one and have to re-watch it to have any idea what's happening.
Not even that, just have a nice arc that actually fits into a single episode rather than it be a chapter in a 10 hr movie. I consider most episodes filler because they can’t stand on their own and only make sense in the bigger picture which is frustrating if you actually want to want an episode in isolation and don’t want to binge a whole series in one sitting.
I know the exact kind of episode you mean but a filler episode is the exact opposite, it's an episode that doesn't advance the plot in any way.
I tried to find a term for an episode that can't stand on its own but came up short so I'd like to propose a term:
Bridge Episodes.
An episode that is useless without the episodes connected to either side.
Did an advertising block owner write this?
Really don’t care about length if it’s good. I hate they went back to releasing an episode week by week though. Give me the whole damn thing to binge. I can manage my own time thank you very much.
This right here. If something is good it can be as long or as short as it wants to be. Forcing something to a constrained time isn't going to make a show better. Letting any shit show go on and on in length isn't going to make it good.
“Murderbot” has entered the chat.
This is a great example of a show that keeps the runtime down but still carries the story forward and has some terrific moments.
Sometimes I wish it was longer, but I'm satisfied with the current episode lengths. They get enough done.
TV is just the new movie with sequels filmed back to back.
Disagree/personal preference. I like both at times, depending on mood/concentration etc.
It's good to also do things that take focus for longer periods of time, to train staying focused. Too many shorts, TikTok etc. Reduce attention span.
Miss me with that, I love 60 minutes episodes
Meh, I don't really care.
Half the time I'm binging shows anyway so longer episodes means less interuptions by having to skipping credits and intros.
And when the episode goes on for too long I can just stop it midway. I assume most streaming services support resuming of episodes these days (my selfhosted plex server does).
Opinion: Your opinion sucks because it generalizes to an exten that it loses all meaning.
I love long episodes. If i watch a show for a long time, i personally love seeing more of the characters.
Been watching through Modern Family for the first time and appreciate how many plot points they can fit into a 20-minute episode.
I have a cognitive impairment so maybe that’s why but I can only watch shows with 10-30min length episodes. Longer is too much for my brain.
I like to joke that it takes me 3 hours to watch "60 Minutes" because I just keep pausing/rewinding because I've zoned out and have to go back and catch up.
I disagree, I dig 1h episodes
I dislike 6 episodes series
I prefer 8 to 12 episodes per series
I prefer 26 episodes per season. ST:TNG has more episodes and length than any other modern series, and they will never top that because modern Hollywood wants to spent too much money per episode for it to shit the bed on the second season.
Also, actors don't live long enough for these five-year hiatuses per season.
Weird example to use bear for this. Those episodes are action packed start to end. Make the episodes as short or as long as needed. If it's "too long" just watch it by halves. What a stupid take In the streaming era.
I'd agree, they're getting too long. And it's not just TV shows, it seems like big movies and games are also too long too often.
It's like every major work thinks it's the be-all culmination of human creativity. For the people who work on it, it may have that place of importance. But as a viewer, any given work is, by default, just yet another in a huge sea of art that might occupy my time.
But also, I get it. When you find something you really resonate with, that you devour each second of, sometimes it can feel like the longer the better. You almost don't want it to end. And if you pay money for something, and it's surprisingly short, that can feel disappointing.
IMO, it varies from show to show and by genre. Some shows have plot and material that don't really need an hour per episode, while some have so much going on that keeping it to 40 mins isn't enough without having to rush. The problem is sometimes those things don't match.
Does not matter much to me but this fractured series thing has me watching more old things anyway as I don't have extra cash for subscriptions and am to lazy to pirate (I have mixed ethics around it to). In addition from what I have caught of things from the recent era most have disapointed.
TV episodes being more than 30 minutes long - what fresh hell is this?
TV/Film production is an investment business and investors believe "Size=Quality".