Security Theater

That's what nearly all the intrusion tests and studies have indicated. A big GOP created "make work" program of security theater.
https://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11687014/tsa-against-airport-security
- A big GOP created "make work" program of security theater.
  Less of a "make work" program and more of subsidy to keep the privatized airlines afloat.
  Not sure how many people here remember the times immediately after 9/11, but a significant portion of the population were basically refusing to fly again for quite a while afterwards. Airlines were scrambling to get people to fly again and there were talks going around about them either going under or being socialized.
  The TSA was basically a program meant to get scared Americans back on planes so airlines could maintain enough profitability to remain privately owned.
  
  So it's a multi-layer fuck you to the people, then.

Years ago I had a short inter-country flight in the EU.
Forgot that I still had my swiss army knife in my jacket. Noticed before the scanners. Thought "fuck. oh well, worst case I'll leave it here".
The people at the scanners didn't say a word.
On the way back, I remembered the knife again. Again on front of the scanners.
This time they noticed.
"is that a pocket knife in the jacket?" "uh, damn. yes"
Guy checks out the knife. Hands it back to me "next time put it in the suitcase".
I put it into my jacket and get on the plane.
When we land, I grab my stuff, including the jacket from the overhead compartment.
Sometime taps me on my shoulder, I turn around and see a steward hand me my knife, grinning. It fell out of my jacket when I grabbed it
- Meanwhile, I get my dong dapped up every time I go through.
  
  I had a lady in Cairo working my breasts like she was taking the lids off jars. Hornk hornk hornk. All behind a curtain so my modesty was protected.
  
  that's called an Alabama Handshake
  
  They can't resist the dong
  
  Wassup Mr. Hotcock
- I’ve circumnavigated the globe on 8 flights across 4 continents, with a knife (mistakenly) in my bag, only to have it detected on my last leg.
  Then on domestic flights, I’ve been asked to take my knife out… so they can measure it.
  
  You have been added to the knife length betting pool, someone may have made money off of it.

A former congressman owned a stake in the company that made the scanners. That's why you go through scanners.
- Michael Chertoff. Second secretary of the dept of Homeland security. Talk about a conflict of interest.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff

The job of the TSA is not to provide security. Their job is to provide the illusion of security. They are basically living tranquilizers for the public.
- They regularly fail audits and miss tons of guns.
- Well, it doesn't work. I feel inconvenienced, not safer. I know if someone really wants to hijack or blow up the plane, they'll find a way.
  
  Can't they just lie to me? "We've installed overhead ai systems with x Ray lidar invisiview technology throughout the airport, so no more need for security!"
  Fucking even keep charging us for the fake technology and line your pockets. But let us all just walk to the damn terminal
- It's also a nationwide jobs program as there almost no requirements to work there. They aren't actual law enforcement.

It also varies from airport to airport. I get frustrated when I travel because I always get yelled at by TSA agents for following the directions of the previous airport. Some places want all devices out. Some only want laptops. Some want the bag of travel liquids out in their gallon bag. Some allow you to leave them in. But they all act like I’m supposed to know what their particular rules are.
- This is based on the TYPE of scanner each checkpoint has and that frequently differs from airport to airport.
  The problem is, most of THEM don't even know that, so yeah, you appear mind-bogglingly stupid to them and they look needlessly arcane and possibly deliberately cruel and rude to you.
  
  But... Don't they deal with people from all over the country and world constantly? Ignorance can't be an excuse at that point.

Shortly after the whole high-security thing started there was a UK military officer who had been in charge of counterterrorism somewhere like Belfast, who was an expert in homemade bombs. He said the whole three-ounces of liquid thing was complete bullshit. He knew the specific ingredients they were saying people could potentially mix to make explosives in an airplane restroom, and he said no, these substances would absolutely not blow up a plane or blow a hole in a plane. They had to be combined slowly and carefully, almost drop by drop, in a temperature-controlled vessel, or they would react too fast, creating a violent splash that would merely give the would-be terrorist serious chemical burns.

I'm old enough to remember flying before all that bullshit and we literally just pulled up to the plane on the tarmac and got on. You could arrive like ten minutes before takeoff. RETVRN
- I visited the cockpit once on an international flight. JAL Tokyo-London. Just asked if I could, and sure of course.
- DOGE could've had an easy win
  
  If they got rid of the TSA they would have probably been given a lot more public good will, of course it would mean that the job market would suddenly have been swamped by the biggest bunch of idiots that anyone has ever had to deal with.

Ay least electronics in registered baggage is not a joke. Once we travelled with big group of scuba divers. And one diver had his torch in the cabin bag. It was wrapped into socks to prevent it from breaking. Some way the torch got turned on. (Scuba diving torches are really powerful, thus heat decently). As a result socks heated up and smoke appeared in the whole plane. Nobody had any idea where the smoke is coming from. The personnel was running back and forth trying to find where it comes from. Their arms were shaking. No result. Even though alcohol on board was only for extra charge, personnel started offering it for free to passengers (probably to calm them down).
Eventually one of scuba divers decided to check his cabin bag. After opening it the huge amount of smoke rushed out of the bag.
It ended up well. It's good that it wasn't in the baggage section of the plane, coz fire could have started in there.
So electronics in baggage prohibition is no joke.
- I initially thought you meant like a cutting torch and was very concerned, but then remembered torch is also used to refer to flashlights/handheld lights lol
  
  ...Which is something that TSA would fully allow onto the plane and might not even qualify as "electronics" to be removed during checkin.

America thrives off of marketing a sense of security. That's one of the ways they gain ownership of your soul and humanity.
I hear they are eating cats and dogs.

I used to work last mile logistics in a big city with an international airport. I lived there until my twenties and flew in and out many times before and after the TSA. I've seen the backend, where they have the robot explosive sniffer, and only witnessed them use it for one package I dropped off. It's all theatre.

Fun fact, in Europe you dont have to remove your shoes, yet noone has bombed any planes.
- Flew back from Mexico last week and got to keep my shoes on. We all survived
  
  That's because you got lucky and boarded an Airbus.
  
  Yeah, but only because they didn't let you bring a water bottle! Imagine what would happen if you could just carry liquid onto the plane!!1!1!1!

I recently traveled through Europe, the Middle East and Australia. In the bottom of my carry-on bag I forgot about a 1 l plastic water bottle that was about 3/4 full. None of the security scans in Australia, Malaysia, Doha, or Montreal said anything about it. For the first two airports, I also had two 500 mL water bottles in side pockets. Again, no issues.
- Not seeing any European airports but last time I flew within Europe they were cool with bringing water aboard. Also the shoes thing is something of the past if you fly within Europe.
  
  Security when flying within europe can really differ from airport to airport though. I've had times they made a big deal out of everything including dogs sniffing everone all the way to my bag just went through a scanner but nobody watched the screen.
  
  Bringing liquids onto the plane is fine, but it’s (supposed to be) an issue with bringing liquids through security, since it could be something like gasoline or some other hazardous liquid. If you fill your bottle with water or buy a drink inside the secure area, it has theoretically already been vetted and is safe to take onboard (though I bet there’s really a bunch of security theatre happening there, too).
- I once left full sized tailoring scissors in my carry-on backpack by accident. I only noticed at the hotel. I have no Idea how they missed them on the x-ray, they are huge, like 8" blade huge.
  
  I forgot I had a hunting knife in my bag. Yes very stupid, I know.
  I got pulled over by airport security and when they asked me to open up the pocket. I found a water bottle on top of my knife and showed that to them and they said it was fine. I didn't realize the knife was there until I got home and unpacked.
- I got stopped regarding a bottle of water I'd forgotten about. I just apologised,, drank it, and passed through security.

I’ve forgotten a combination OC/CN spray (aka peppermace) in the bottom of a bag and been waved through. Complete clown shoes.

If 0.01% of people are nefarious, and they check 99.9% of the time, that’s still 1/10,000,000 chance a nefarious person gets through.
As long as they don’t do this often, doing that once probably has near zero impact on security.
(Please don’t pick apart the assumptions that nefarious people always get found by screening, or that the TSA works, that’s not the point I’m making — just trying to say a one off unpredictable dropping of guard doesn’t hugely benefit nefarious actors)
- Regardless of the assumption of how many people are nefarious or how actually effective TSA is, your point stands.
  If they screen normally 99% of the time, then the occasional relaxing of the checks just means that the effectiveness has gone from X to 0.99*X.
  TSA is security theater, but this isn't the evidence of that.

Having kids was that moment for me. Let me tell you: with children you are allowed to take as much liquid as you want through security. Even boiling water, to prepare formula 😂
I was like "WHAT? Why do you take it away for other passengers?" Just so they have to buy shitty, overpriced beverages, or what?
- That's because no parent would ever be a terrorist. What kind of a heartless monster would put their kids in danger?
  terrorist organizations begin recruiting single mothers...
- pro tip, you are allowed to bring empty bottles that you can fill up in the bathroom sinks
  
  I know. More and more airports even have water dispensers for that reason. But I've been to airports, where I'd rather not drink the tap water, be it for the taps themselves, the water quality or the water taste.

That's not dropping all the protocols, it's upgrading everyone to PreCheck

What if a terrorist organization just recruits a straight christian white dude. I doubt TSA would check him too closely.
- Hate to break it to you but straight Christian white dudes are pretty much THE demographic for domestic terrorist
  Edit : I am a straight Christian white dude
  
  I am a straight Christian white dude
  We get it you're looking for a job
  You have to submit your CV and a cover letter as well as go on our website and fill out 500 little boxes all of which are answered by your CV.
- Well as long as he's wearing a maga cap

I mean one can argue that since nobody could foresee that security wouldn't be there for the flight nobody could plan around it.
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions."

I mean just let me wear my fucking belt. I can deal with a lot of indignity, but holding my fucking pants up in line is just insult to injury when you're passing me through mothingfucking millimeter wave.
- I have a belt with a plastic buckle/cinch thing now that i always make sure is my “flight belt” for this reason. Even for events i know will have security check points for access. I’ve only ever had to take it off ONE time in like 8-9 years and that was flying out of Dublin airport to mainland Europe last month- i had already gone through the scanner and I got flagged. Security dude said it had nothing to do with plastic vs. metal belt, just that it was a “bulky area” that something could be in…..well, fair enough, i guess.
  
  i carried a velcro cable tie once and used it between my belt loops, I've never remembered since.

I've had this happen a few times. It's such a relief when shit is jammed back to the walls. They did it at O'hare once, shit was crazy in there and they're all like, "just gtfo, don't blow anything up" everyone came stomping through the metal detectors. Not sure if it was related, but they had just sent sniffy dogs through the lines so maybe they planned it? I mean, I don't think the dogs can smell a knife, but I am not a dog, so I don't know for certain.
- I don’t think the dogs can smell a knife,
  perhaps an explosive knife!
  but I am not a dog
  I mean it's the internet, you could be deceiving us...
- Happened to me at Ohare in May. They stopped the whole line for 10 minutes when they set it up.
  They brought out portable, battery operated Milwaukee tools fans and a sniffing dog. They made people walk 2 at a time, through a glass walled walkway for about 50 ft and a tsa guy walked a dog behind you. Once you go through the tsa ID check the told us to leave shoes on and electronics in our bags. They still sent the bags through the X-ray though.
  My brother in law flew out of St. Louis and described the exact same thing a week later. Weird.

Damn that must be nice.
Passing through the New Orleans airport last time I went to visit my mom, I showed up 3 hours early to my flight and didn't even exit the security check line until an hour after my flight had already left. I was fucking livid. It took them four hours to pass maybe ~300 people through the check lines.
What did make me feel a little better though was going back to the ticket kiosks to complain about it and try to get a different flight, and like four other ticket takers within earshot of us heard me and all chimed in like "maaaan, FUCK New Orleans TSA" apparently they're demonstrably one of the worst in the continental US.

Iif terrorists were actually that big of a threat they would simply blow up the massive security line out in front of security.

Of course. How do you think it worked before Dubya’s jobs program went into effect?

Security funding is just art funding filtered through fear.

DON'T SAY BOMB!

In Schiphol Airport at least you keep your shoes on (not boots, shoes), and electronics can stay in your bag. The bag goes through a kind of MRI and that’s enough for them to see the difference vs older x-ray equipment. Pretty convenient
- Yes, but now we cannot bring our water anymore. Any idea why that changed?

The handful of times I have flown in the past two years, all the airports I've been at no longer require you to take out electronics or your toiletries bag.
- In theory that means they have newer scanners.
  I say in theory because for sanity's sake I hope that's the case, but I also know how they've historically worked thanks to the likes of Bruce Schneier.

I hate the TSA, and I strongly suspect they are largely a mirage, but I don't agree that this indicates they are admitting it's a mirage. It's almost never the purpose of any kind of inspection to have 100% coverage, just to shift the balance of probabilities as far as necessary until it's a deterrent. They could be shrugging and giving up in the face of a large number of people to process, but they could also just be making a well-informed trade-off.

ITT people don’t remember the joke that was security beforehand.
Maybe we’d like to go back to the good old days though.
A few more hijackings and Lockerbies are worth cheapening up security.
- People don't hijack planes because the cockpit is inaccessible and hijackers know they'd get dogpiled. The Lockerbie bomb was in the cargo hold. TSA fails the vast majority of simulated attacks. It's security theater and a jobs program