Lemmy since the reddit collapse
Lemmy since the reddit collapse
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772 comments
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Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Bad is the enemy of good, and right-wingers are bad.
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Biden doubled Trump's deportation numbers and gave record breaking funding to corrupt police departments all over the country, also striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven't managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s
Yeah keep telling me about the "bad guys"
https://mronline.org/2022/01/21/the-700000-club/
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/20/biden-haiti-deportations-texas-del-rio/
So easy to find these sources, but as you can see below me, libs don't know how to read basic statistics
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Biden doubled Trump’s deportation numbers
2021 was the lowest deportation year on record (owing to COVID). 2022 was the second lowest deportation year in modern record.
Biden moved to prioritize ICE focusing on criminal immigrants, and the Texas Republicans blocked that behavior in the courts, a block that only failed in June of 2023 when SCOTUS gave the only reasonable result (a phrase I can't say very often anymore).
So 2 years of record low deportations and 1 year of his hands tied in the courts (of which I can't find numbers anyway). How exactly is he "doubling" Trump's deportation numbers?
What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he's against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.
And I'm pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses. But you're making some factually incorrect statements and it can't be more clear than the deportation numbers. And more refs.
https://www.axios.com/2022/03/11/ice-arrest-deportation-number-biden-immigration
https://www.cato.org/blog/biden-administration-has-reduced-deportations-more-trump-administration-not-much-0 (I love the "not by much" when they show a graph depicting an 80% drop! I love propaganda mags)
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Try again, you’re simply counting arrests and deportations, I'm talking about Title 42 which was also Trump's primary deportation method
“Given the grave harm that the Title 42 policy inflicts on desperate, asylum-seeking families, and the public health community’s view that the policy is not necessary, we would have hoped the administration would simply accept the ruling, especially given its repeated claim that it wants to distance itself from the Trump administration’s asylum practices,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s immigrant rights project.
Customs and Border Protection said 25% of the 209,000 people it encountered in August had been stopped at least once over the previous year, compared with 14% in earlier years.
Hmmm funny how numbers change when you account for all avenues of abuse
What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he's against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.
Nope incorrect
During his four-year term, Trump used Title 42 to remove 500,000 asylum seekers. In under a year, Biden has deported almost 700,000 migrants.
That was a year and half ago, and before the Biden admin intensified the deportations of Haitians especially
the weekend show U.S. Border Patrol agents on horseback violently grabbing Haitian migrants attempting to join the Del Rio encampment. This, the Biden administration claims, is in the name of safety: The mass deportations have been authorized under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Title 42, which enables expedited deportations in the name of public health during the Covid-19 pandemic. Under Trump, nearly half a million people were removed under the law; the Biden administration has already used it to deport nearly 700,000.
Its use against migrants at the southern border sends a clear and vile message as to whom the U.S. deems to be the public, deserving of health and safety. Under Title 42 — in the name of safety, that is — those being rounded up and flown to Haiti were given no option to apply for asylum or temporary protection status.
It is worth emphasizing, too, that the majority of deportees have not lived in Haiti for many years, having left to find work in South America after a catastrophic hurricane devastated their home country in 2010. Struggling to find enough work to survive in South America, thousands risked perilous journeys to the U.S. border, only to be summarily removed — to Haiti.
Next time before you put on the lib tinted glasses, don't just look for sources that only count ONE method of deportation and immigrant abuse, count them all, also you used Cato.org, straight up a right wing source lmao
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Also because the Biden admin could no longer sustain the use of Title 42 because of the lifting of the final covid restrictions, they now are reviving an older and even worse Trump policy for the border
The lawsuit, filed in federal court in San Francisco by the Center for Gender & Refugee Studies and other groups, alleges the Biden administration “doubled down” on the policy proposed by Trump that the same court rejected. The Biden administration has said its new rule is substantially different.
And predictably, deportations have ramped up since Title 42 lifted back in May
According to the Department of Homeland Security, about 85,000 migrants have been “repatriated” since Title 42 was lifted. That’s up 65% since the same period last year, which saw 51,246. During the same period the previous year, there were 33,087 repatriations, according to it.
That's just three months
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And I'm pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses.
Honestly this bit makes me extremally curious what your response to the other two issues are. Do you think they're both good things? I just want to know what I'm dealing with here.
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He didn't even know about Title 42 and its use by the biden admin to deport twice as many people as Trump, I doubt he has informed opinions on police funding and strike breaking lmao
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And this circlejerk is why I block hexbear on the apps I have that allow me to. There is no point in continuing conversation at this point. I'm less than human to you and yours.
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???? You literally didn't know what Title 42 was, and you were spreading poorly researched misinformation about an important issue, also "less than human to you" ??? bro we're debating on an Internet forum chill out
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I'm less than human to you and yours.
Dude, you're commenting on a thread about the liberal tendency to write off communist human beings as literal robots, the irony of you being so bad at taking corrections that you immediately jumping weepily onto the cross and play the victim just to avoid having to type out "damn, I didnt know that" is powerful and embarassing.
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Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading, and out came all the responders to tell me how ignorant I am because I disagree with them. I'm not a liberal who writes off communists. Neither "a liberal" nor "write off communist".
Do you believe it is possible for a person to be a communist and also spread something that is not 100% honest truth? Do you all take the Three Oaths?
Sorry, but no. Nice comic, if only it were accurate. You drew yourself with a chad face, so I lose.
Look, nothing personal, but you can still treat someone like shit just because other people treat you like shit.
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Truly providing sources is the most violent thing one can do to a liberal
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The critical mistake was using "unbiased" sources like the LA times. Shoulda stuck with the original source material stalindidnothingwrong.cn
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Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading
Like someone else said, it's incredible, you got proven wrong to your face, in public, and didn't even blink. Just erased the interaction from your memory to preserve what is evidently a load-bearing smugness on your part. You're like a terminator tbh, if you simply acquired a more factual worldview to argue from you'd be a posting juggernaut.
Look, nothing personal
Oh my bad nevermind. Great bit, carry on
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Like someone else said, it’s incredible, you got proven wrong to your face, in public, and didn’t even blink
By bringing up something that isn't deportation? Ya'll are willing to lie together. But as someone else JUST reminded me, you don't care about my vote. We socdems are going up against the wall with everyone else.
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Ahh. Right. Of course. Retreating in to semantics. It's only deportation when you're literally removed from a commercial port facility.
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We socdems are going up against the wall with everyone else.
Its so fucking funny that you'll concoct a whole politically illiterate persecution fantasy just to avoid having to admit you didn't know what Title 42 is. Do you also fake your death to get out of doing the dishes? You're the second lib to do this in as many days, you guys can stop being scared any time, I'm not gonna send the Stasi.
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No, I assure you incredible confidence in your own unfounded beliefs and complete ignorance of the depths of your ignorance is extremely human, as is retreating in to cliches and retrenching when you're confronted with evidence that contradicts your ideological beliefs.
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Buddy you were proven wrong on various points and now you're pissing and shidding your pants saying we don't treat you as human?
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You should block all instances where your bullshit is called out and you have nothing left you can parrot back at them
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That's funny. I hear people lying and want to avoid turning this into reddit 2.0, and you think this is about people calling out my bullshit.
You know what happens if you call out a lie and 100 zealots claim it's "bullshit"? You still have a fucking lie. Apparently, if I don't think every single American is literally as bad as Trump, I'm a fucking moron.
Well, working on "having nothing left" by blocking you.
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Not sure why I'm stupid enough to reply.
WRT police, the budgeting is not unprecedented. I, too, support defunding police, but as far as all the metrics I've seen, nothing about Biden's budget effect on police funding is out of the ordinary.
WRT the Union stuff, it's complicated. He used a law meant to protect the country for the way it was indended, and empowered 8 of 12 unions to sign a deal they agreed to. There has never been any evidence of overt or covert threat of actually arresting members of the other 4 unions if they did strike. You might disagree with that, but it was a bold faced lie to say he "(sic) striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven’t managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s"
You get to decide whether someone on your side lying is better or worse than someone who is merely far-left non-communist calling bullshit what it is. There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it's lying.
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There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it's lying.
Do you...do you actually think we intend to vote communism in?
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They still don't know how communists gain control after all these years
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It's not like we're even remotely subtle here about this fact, we literally glorify the revolutionaries daily, and constantly spit on the idea of electoralism
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Then why all the lies and standing by them?
But no. I've been reminded hundreds of times that you intend to bring communism by putting guns to the heads of the majority of your fellow proles like myself who don't want what you do. I know I'm going up against the wall, along with over 90% of my country, if you ever win.
But that's why I know you won't win. You can't execute 400M people, and you can't turn their hearts by threatening to.
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Communism is when you shoot 90% of the country and the more 90% you shoot the more communism it is.
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With all due respect, I was replying to someone who made perfectly clear that the will of the majority (vote) was meaningless to them. How exactly do you intend to seize control from 90% of a country who wants something different if not at gunpoint?
Don't worry about responding. I blocked you too. I'm mid-migration towards servers that defederated the
/c/thedonaldmarxcommunities, so blocking individual people is all I have right now.-
What a tantrum, asking someone a question then insulting and blocking them so they can't answer it and you get to have the last word.
You know that if you just ask us to disengage without a little snipe thrown in, we will? It's literally part of our instance rules.
Instead you post this childish nonsense.
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you severely misunderstand who we intend to shoot.
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I swear to god the next time tells me that BS I am going to shit myself, vomit, and cry.
There is a literal anti-Trans genocide in the US. That's "The good" you're defending.
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Democrats are right wingers. And they're worlds away from anything I'd call "good"
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If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.
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But we only ever have 2 evils. There is no "other" to choose. The old folks make sure of that during primaries, they vote and they choose people who look like them and are their age, so we always end up with the 2 worst choices.
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yeah, thats been going great so far
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The right loves anti-electoralism on the left, it means that they have less of a fight from the left.
Can you imagine how bad things would be if people didn't vote if they felt like they were picking between the lesser of 2 evils?
This nation would look a whole hell of a lot like modern Florida with it's politics because Republicans in general turn out way more often than anyone else to vote.
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Then why have things been getting so much worse over the past 50 years even with plenty of blue boys and gals getting put in office?
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What about the good that has happened?
Do you think gay marriage would have been protected?
Access to birth control secured?
Anti-sodomy laws getting struck down?
The Affordable Care Act passing?
Disability rights?
Do you think any of those things would have happened if Republicans been able to seize power and hold it unopposed over the last 50 years? No. None of those things would have happened. Those things happened because people further left than them got elected, the lesser of 2 evils won some elections.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of better.
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disability rights were fought for by disabled people, not fucking democrats. Gay people rioted to get their rights.
and do you actually think contraceptives are secured?
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Do you think any of those things would have passed in a country where people didn't vote?
And all those rights secured by supreme court rulings are sitting on shaky ground, why? Republicans stacking the courts.
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They're sitting on shaky ground because Obama refused to seat a justice, RBG refused to retire when she could have been replaced, and because Biden et all refuse to stack the courts.
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Obama didn't refuse to seat a justice, he was blocked by Mitch McConnell. Who also blocked every single judge appointment that Obama should have been able to make in the last 2 years of his presidency. And Republicans were talking about leaving that seat open until a Republican won the presidency. This is why trump has the most judicial appointments of any president.
And RBG reduced to retire likely out of pride during the Obama years, but smartly didn't retire during the trump years.
Biden refusing to stack the courts is pretty shitty, but if he does so it's going to open the flood gates for that being a possibility. Do I think he should? Yes. But I also think that if he does so their should be a cap put in place, but to put a cap in place would require a constitutional amendment, and there's no way that will get through our current Senate.
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It would have been on a state-by-state basis, which is what we're coming dangerously close to anyway.
We don't go around campaigning specifically to discourage people from voting. Our project is to get people to see beyond the seesaw spectacle.
When someone offers you two poor options, the right thing to do is to create a better option, even if you take the less bad option in the short run. Voting a Democrat into office and then congratulating ourselves on doing it is how progress slips and how we lose sight of what's needed.
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Gay marriage isn't protected. Scotus can shoot it down on a whim
Lol Biden lost Roe
Court decision
Sucks
What rights? SSI tops out at 700$ a month, I can never have more than 2k in assets, and if I get married I lose it all. Just happened to a friend of mine, they're going to have to annul their marriage so they don't starve to death. "disability rights".
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Ummm because nuance is a thing that exists. Global conditions, etc. I mean the guy in power during the pandemic saying we should inject bleach or nuke incoming hurricanes sure as shit helped things be worse.
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Because Republicans? We've not had plenty of blues elected. We've seen abysmal showings from the left and republicans being elected across the nation who are setting out to destroy people's rights.
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The crux of the issue is, where you see a democracy that is keeping fascism at bay, we see through the illusion of choice that keeps allowing the slow steady march towards fascism.
It's a ratchet. Gop moves everything rightward (including the Dems) and the Dems refuse to push left in the name of "bipartisanship". Then conditions get worse (because the policy is further right than before), Dems eventually lose because they allow gridlock and the ratchet suddenly frees up and cranks to the right again.
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And how much worse would it be right now if Dems never won elections due to people saying "this dem isn't far enough left therefore I won't vote"?
How far right would things have flown?
Voting for the lesser of 2 evils reduces harm now. And when the lesser of 2 evils isn't pushed that things are allowed to shift further to shit.
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Let me be more blunt. We do not live in a democracy. Voting is fundamentallly unable to change that.
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idk man there's a literal genocide going on right now I think we're past the point of quibbling over minor differences in the deree of evil.
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A genocide being perpetrated by Republicans.
Who can forget these 16 states (blue states) introducing trans refugee bills. Does that look like something republicans would do?
The parties are not the same, there are differences between them.
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Study: Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens:
From the abstract:
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
further down:
In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule — at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
What is it, like, 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare?
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No the right actually hates that. Democrats have been shrieking at us to vote for years even though the entire left in the US is a tiny fraction of the registered electorate. But the right wing won't stop screaming at us about it.
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And the right is currently openly talking about raising the voting age because younger people tend to vote more progressive.
Sure sounds like voting works and has republicans scared.
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If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.
i accidentally deleted my comment ahhhhhhhhh sorry for double ping
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Could you explain this?
If I have a truly evil person, say a Hitler like figure. Then I have a guy who is kind of an idiot. How does voting for the slight idiot end up way worse than a guy who wants to commit genocide. The slight idiot becomes the worst evil imaginable, but how?
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772 comments