Ukraine to compete at 2024 Olympics on one condition: athletes from Russia and Belarus must perform under neutral flags

only fair enough, I remember when they made the US and UK do this after killing hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq
- 4.5 Million but yeah, glad that the USA and the UK got sanctioned after leading such a genocidal war. This restores my faith in the rules based order.
  
  Can we please stop overusing the word genocide
- This is basically word for word what I was going to post.
- You're not wrong, but just because the USA and UK got away with it doesn't mean we should continue to let others get away with it. We can't go back in time and fix it but we've got to start somewhere.
  
  Can you even manage in a fever dream to think that this would set a precedent that would result in the US ever getting punished?
  
  it's just a coincidence that this stuff only ever starts with our state enemies huh? only the bad countries get sanctioned for doing the same things we/our allies do. only Russia has to compete with neutral flags. only African leaders get prosecuted in the ICC.
  it's all nonsense used to manufacture consent for war and military spending
  
  Why are we letting the people responsible for Iraq and Afghanistans current state get away with it? Like if the US wants to arrest a war criminal Bush and Cheney are right there. Same for Blair, or Harper, or any of the other architects of the invasions.
  
  "Just because we let the world's most prolific serial killer get away with it doesnt mean he shouldnt be allowed to keep murdering if he pinky swears his victims really deserve it this time."
  We can't go back in time and fix it but we've got to start somewhere.
  We are in total agreement here, and we can start by seizing the levers of power, purging the government of capitalists, withdrawing all troops from everywhere and using them for reforestation work, dismantling the IMF, paying reparations to every country we've victimized, and putting every fossil fuel executive and lobbyist against the wall for their omnicidal crimes against all terrestrial life.
  
  but we've got to start somewhere.
  Somehow we always seem to be starting with US geopolitical enemies, never the US itself, despite literal centuries of heinous crimes.
  Curious how that works.
- Holy fuck the sarcasm lol

The nazis hosted the olympics, no imperialist war has ever stopped the olympics from letting someone compete. Even in the worst possible interpretation of Russia's actions in Ukraine, barring them from the Olympics for it would be an entirely new precedent.
- The last several Olympics haven't they competed under a different flag because all the cheating they keep getting caught for? Sure, everyone knows they're Russian, but it wasn't the Russian flag or anthem. They competed as the Russian Olympic Committee.
  
  All true. None of it related to human rights abuses or wars, which the IOC has typically not cared much about.
- Russia is a fascist state. You are a fascist for supporting it.
  
  Y'all will take the most lukewarm, neutral, fair takes on topics related to this issue and call it "support for Russia" is incredible. |
  Nowhere, anywhere in op's comment did she say that she supports Russia.
  
  Ukraine is a fascist state. You are a fascist for supporting it.
  
  It feels weird to be the one to break this to you, but the nazis are widely considered to be fascists too. Some would say they were even a lil bit worse than Russia on the goosestepping front.
  
  Lol but western athletes aren’t fascists for not boycotting the event that Russia participating in? Seems like they have more power and influence than an internet poster
  
  do u support ukraine

Forget neutral flags, they should be banned. Heck, Russia should be banned for doping, regardless of the war.
- I have to wonder if Russia has ever really won a medal without cheating?
  They've been caught cheating at the paralympics also. What's next, the special olympics?
- I thought Russia was still banned for doping.

Finally, some dignity and respect for human rights at the Olympics.
walks past barricade that hides homeless people
- Every Olympics (and world cup) presages the mass brutalization of vulnerable people, and I gotta wonder: do people really care that much about shotput?

Good lord, the comments on that article. I guess I shouldn't expect any better from RT, but man it does really make me sad that so many people are happy living in a fantasy world where Ukrainians are the bad guys in this conflict.
- If you think that's bad you really don't want to look at what's goin on in Palestine.
- Pretty sure invading another country for their natural resources doesn't make you the good guys, no matter what excuse your country invents to justify their actions.

Putting a lot of trust in some notion of integrity on noted good organisation, the IOC, here

Ukraine should perform under the flag of Bandera
- the red and black one deeply associated with the far right, you mean?
  
  The joke is that that represents their awful state ideology
- Fun fact: flag, in Spanish, means "bandera".
  
  It's the etymology of that name actually, italian word for flag (also bandera) got adopted in many slavic countries.

- RT is propaganda
  
  All news is propaganda.

Is that a big bargaining chip or something? The presence of the Ukrainian Olympic team?
- No serious athlete will want mickey mouse medals if the real competition isn't there.
- I mean, having Ukraine boycott the Olympics isn't a great look for the Olympics.
  
  The IOC is not a great look for the Olympics. The organisation is cancerous, just like FIFA
  
  didnt a bunch of people boycott it when china was hosting it?

Ukraine having a normal one

The original Olympic truce required everyone to lay down their arms. It would go against the spirit to selectively enforce this. Not that the IOC actually cares about the legacy of the games, they tried to remove wrestling at one point.

Doesn't Russia already perform under neutral flags because of the doping?
- They should just be banned entirely. How many doping scandals does it take? The presence of their athletes is all Russia cares about. They'll Photoshop in some flags and parade it around state TV.
  
  I don't think that's fair to the athletes. They have all worked super hard to make it to the olympics and they shouldn't be banned because of their birthplace.
  
  We should also ban Russian cats from Cat Beauty Pageants while we’re at it because fuck them cats.
  
  All countries use doping, some are better to hide it.

Now we’re up to $900 per US household for this Ukraine stuff. Let’s throw a few more bucks at it to buy flags. Great use of taxpayer dollars. Sure, Jan.
- Most of which are armament that the US government already had in its arsenal. You've spent the money and now those missiles are actually in use instead of being hold in storage. I'm actually more interested in that 900 USD amount, where did you read or hear that exact number?
  
  Who said I preferred it killing people half way across the world instead of rotting in storage
  
  Missiles being used to kill people in an endless stalemate is actually worse than them sitting in a box
  The people sending those missiles to Ukraine are going to buy more to replace them
  They're also going to charge Ukraine for the missiles and insist the country sell off state assets for pennies on the dollar to make payments
  
  I don't know how this brain genius talking point got so popular.
  So things don't cost money when you already spent money on them? ...You don't think those stocks are going to be replenished having been depleted?
  
  And now we have to replenish those arsenals… they absolutely will be replenished.
  Like, if you give all the food in your cupboard to someone, no one would consider that “free”. You have to buy more food!
  This argument seems so foolish I can hardly believe anyone actually thinks this way.
- This conflict has the potential to cause real change in Russia. We're talking about potentially getting rid of Putin's regime and it's being done without sending any of our troops to die. The help Ukraine is getting isn't charity, look at the bigger picture.
  
  without sending any of our troops to die
  what about all the people from other countries
  
  If Putin is overthrown the people most likely to overthrow him are hardliners who think he's being a cuck by not immediately nuking Kiev and Washington.
  So it's a good thing that there's basically zero indication of major internal political stability in Russia. Even the Wagner "coup" only asked for Shoigu and Gerasimov to be removed, not Putin.
  
  You do realize that America already overthrew Russia's government once, and that is how Putin came to be in the first place, right? You expect cycle #2 to go better?
  
  Lmao. I’m sure they’ll overthrow the government, just like the Americans did to their own government after invading Vietnam and Iraq. Have you seen what the Russian government is doing to mild protestors? Black bagged, sent off to who knows where, doing who knows what. It’s Kent State by like 500x. This isn’t 1980s USSR. The people there support Putin. And those who don’t and protest are still denounced by the west for not doing enough, as if westerners have ever succeeded in holding their governments accountable.
  The most realistic outcome is that Putin resigns in disgrace and 20 years later they make shoot and cry movies about Russian soldiers in Ukraine. And then they’ll rehabilitate Putin as a strong leader anyway.
  
  Putin has more support than ever…
  For gods sake try to imagine this from a Russian perspective. NATO bombs are killing their people.
  Like, seriously, imagine how your average American would react to this. Treat the Russians as human for one fucking second.
  They are not going to fucking blame Putin for that. They will blame NATO!!!
  
  We're talking about potentially getting rid of Putin's regime and it's being done without sending any of our troops to die.
  The people surrounding Putin who are most likely to replace him are hardliners who think Kiev should be glassed. Part of the motivation behind the Wagner mutiny is Prigo thinking Shoigu isn't going hard enough in Ukraine. Contrary to liberal bots who only listen to what CNN tells them, it's good for everyone involved that the Wagner mutiny was completely deflated. There wouldn't be much of a Ukraine left if Prigo was in charge, and Prigo is not the only one.
  
  This conflict has the potential to cause real change in Russia
  time is a flat circle
  
  Once again a westoid proves Ukrainian lives don't matter to them.
- This Ukraine stuff is a war where 100.000 war crimes were reported, tens of thousands of civilians were killed raped and tortured, where hundreds of thousands of people lost their house.
  I wouldn't say it's $900 per household because
  It's from the defense federal budget, that you would've spent anyways
  The aid packages, expressed in dollars, are the sum of the value of the equipment sent to Ukraine, in vast majority which US already had
  The defence budget is there to be able to stand against the strongest adversaries: China and Russia. USA basically annihilated one of their enemies' army without a single drop of blood.
  
  You must be joking, 100K war crimes??? 10K rapes??? This isn't Rwanda.

Go Ukraine, but it's official, this worldnews community has become ragebait, like the original one :/
- It's particularly upsetting because lemmy.ml is a major instance. IMO, moderation in this c/ is infrequent and underwhelming. I don't mean to hang the mods out to dry; it would take a big team to wade through this effluent and tame the trolls. The hostile "Here comes the Reddit refugees" and "OMG Tankie brigade" shit is just the easy stuff. A rule on lazy whataboutism would help the signal/noise ratio as well. This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
  
  "My post is about black crime, stop mentioning other things like white crime. Yes, I only post about black crime, are you trying to say black people never commit crime? That they should be allowed to commit crime? Thought so."
  Sometimes bringing up context is important for discussing issues that some people would like to keep in a vacuum. The US competing at those same Olympic games under no penalty would be fucked up and makes it obvious that if Belarus was penalized here, it would be due to western politicking and nothing else (Russia already has the doping issue, so idk about that one)
  
  This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation.
  the 'punishment' of russia is night and day to what we saw happen to the US and its western allies after the invasion of iraq. you can go and cry about 'whataboutism' as much as you'd like, but those of us who live in a world not shrouded by a willful amnesia of a past historical events can see the gross display of hypocrisy for what it is—namely a confirmation by the western world that some victims (of war) are worth more than others
  
  Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
  When your entire schtick is anti-westernism then yeah it is that hard. I really don't mind the comrades at lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, they generate some thought provoking content at times. However their blind, predictable, and endlessly repeated talking points are tiresome in the same way that an invasion of Fox News viewers would be.
  
  This post is from RT, about Ukraine/Russia/Belarus but the biggest thread in here is rehashing the Iraq occupation. Can we just discuss the original topic? Is that so hard?
  This is why so many instances defederate from hexbear, they do this in every comment section. Just turn it into whataboutism against the US, and add nothing to the topic that's actually being discussed by the article. They're basically lemmygrad but brigade comment sections more often.
- What makes you angry about this?
  
  It's not this, it's this whole subreddit. Might as well call it world_politics_gore_debate_bait.
  Edit: to the stink bugs trying to dunk on me for doing exactly what I wanted to do when referring to this place looking like the worldnews subreddit, look up "metaphor" in a dictionary and stfu

- Phrasing

Here's the neutral flag:

We’ll see what comes first, Zelenskyy getting deposed or the Olympic games
- Maybe you wanted to say putin. Ukrainians are with Zelenskiy and he's with his people.
  
  The east of his country isn’t and he has no control over the army. Putin’s support increased during the war.

Just ban Russia and Belarus from participating FFS. Don't even let them in under neutral flags.
- In principle I agree but considering the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel are participating in all competitions without any sanctions I don't see why we should be making a special case for Russia.
  
  I was thinking more along the lines of how the burger regime could use it as a part of a full spectrum warfare strategy. I'd much rather see the burger regime get burnt by something like this, but I suspect it and its NATO pawns have more influence over such things than Russia or Belarus do.
- Like in ancient Greece when the city states would join together only if they didn't have any conflicts and participate in the games to build a commonality between those who were allies