Why I'm not joining Reddit's Accessibility Feedback Group

Fully support this. As a former mod at r/blind, my activity has gone to zero. I didn't fill out the form at all, and was only vaguely aware of it from our discussions in Discord.

The archive link didn't work for me, so I went through to Reddit to copy-paste for anyone else having trouble.

Disclaimer: while I'm a mod of r/Blind and would have been a participant in this group in that capacity, my decisions and thoughts are my own and are, in this case at least, not necessarily representative of or coordinated with the rest of the mod team.

What is the Accessibility Feedback Group?

On July 19th, Reddit announced "more ways to connect live with" them, including an Accessibility Feedback Group. I filled out the form to join this group, including answering Reddit's questions about my disability. That wasn't an issue for me, because it's right on my screen name, on my user flair and all over my comment and post history. For others, these questions could be a concern, especially in how they were used to select participants for this group. I've copied these questions bellow.

How does joining work?

After filling out the form, I waited. Over two weeks later, I got a DM from an admin we've been in contact with - after asking what was up with the delay, that is. After that, I finally got a DM from /r/RedditAccessibility that included a link to another form with terms for participating in the group. I reviewed the terms, concluded I could not agree to them and replied with that information. I got this DM back:

Hey u/MostlyBlindGamer, thanks for the reply.

This is similar language we use in various programs and is part of a standard process we have when sharing nonpublic information. Are there specific parts of the terms that you’re concerned about? We’re eager to have your participation in the group, and the agreement is required for all participants.

Please let us know if there are specific concerns that we can address.

I replied with my specific concerns and have received no further contact.

So what are these terms you can't agree to?

I'll copy my DM and then include the full text of the terms below.

You expect specific actionable contributions, without consideration. That sounds too much like working for free.

You expect participants to contact Reddit for help in preventing information from being provided to legal authorities. Offering some kind of support would be nice, but this is an actual requirement.

You have language on staying on topic. My experience has been that Reddit Inc narrows the topic with little notice and to such an extent as to be useless.

I hope these speak for themselves. If not, sorting r/Blind by top, all time, should provide plenty of context, through the announcements the mod team has made.

Are these terms really that bad?

They are for me. Throughout this process, I've strived to be transparent and to hold others to that standard. I've been in too many meetings that ended in "we'll get back to you" to be OK with a private, tightly controlled focus group. I've spent too much of my free time advocating for and providing expertise to make products accessible to do it for Reddit Inc. under these terms, for free. In fact, I wouldn't want to be paid either - they should be hiring disabled people to work on accessibility. I already have a job, I don't want to work for Reddit Inc.

You may be asking yourself what I imagine Reddit's intentions to be. You may also ask yourself why this question doesn't deserve its own heading. One thing at a time, let's get to their intentions, first. I can imagine a few options:

• They're doing the best they know how to do and following their regular formula. This formula has resulted in enough people feeling ignored by the company to black out the website for two days.
• They want to be able to say they're working with disabled users and mods, while keeping them controlled and preventing them from speaking publicly about the process. This isn't really an "option," so much as the situation as it's presented to me.
• They want to control the narrative, ensuring future public information on Reddit's accessibility comes from them and not the users.

None of those work for me, on a personal level.

But wait, there's more!

New Reddit's Fancy Pants Editor has a formatting button for headings, but it only produces level 1. This leads users to create content that does not follow accessibility best practices. I wasn't even looking for more failures, but here we are.

Original AFG form questions on disability

Do you identify as a person with a disability or other chronic condition? (required)

• Yes
• No
• Prefer not to say

If so, how would you describe your disability or chronic condition? (select all that apply)

• Attention deficit
• Autism
• Blind or visually impaired
• Deaf or hard of hearing
• Dyslexia
• Health-related disability
• Learning disability
• Mental health condition
• Mobility-related disability
• Speech-related disability
• Prefer not to say
• Other (has text field)

Accessibility Feedback Group Onboarding Form

CONFIDENTIALITY & PARTICIPATION

As a participant in Reddit’s accessibility feedback group (AFG), you may have access to confidential information. To ensure our group is a safe, respectful, productive space for all participants, and in order to protect the interests of Reddit and program members, please read and agree to the following:

CONFIDENTIALITY

You agree to maintain the confidentiality of all information disclosed in the AFG by Reddit or group members. This includes, but is not limited to, any information related to Reddit's operations (including any non-public software or beta programs made available to you), business plans, or financials and details, stories, or feedback shared by group members.

• Sharing of Information. You agree not to disclose any confidential information to any third party, without the prior written consent of Reddit or the applicable group member to whom the information pertains. Additionally, any information you learn about a person, moderator, admin, and subreddit is expected to remain confidential, including personal information such as identity. Similarly, Reddit will keep information shared by AFG participants confidential but may use it for internal purposes or may share anonymized notes to a public audience. For the avoidance of doubt, feedback provided by you and other AFG participants may be used by Reddit to improve products and services without any restriction, obligation, or compensation to you.
• Use of Information. You agree to use any confidential information solely for the purpose of participating in the AFG. You may not use this information for personal gain or for the benefit of any other individual, community, or entity, and you do not acquire any intellectual property rights by participating in the AFG.
• Disclosure of Information. You may disclose Reddit confidential information to the extent compelled to do so by law if you (i) provide reasonable prior notice to Reddit, unless a court orders that Reddit not be given notice and (ii) cooperate with Reddit in seeking a protective order or other reasonable remedies.

PARTICIPATION

We encourage participants to be actively involved in the AFG. Share your thoughts, ideas, and feedback with the group. We want to hear from you!

• Respect. We expect all participants to treat each other with respect and kindness. No harassment, discrimination, or bullying of any kind will be tolerated.
• Productive. We’re all here to improve Reddit, so it’s important that our discussions stay productive. We expect group members and admins will reliably and consistently keep an open mind, assume good intent, and foster curiosity. When asked for your opinion, please prioritize actionable feedback – clear and specific suggestions for improvements, typically focused on design, usability, functionality, impact, effectiveness, and relevance.
• Civility. While we want you to feel comfortable in the AFG, we expect all participants to maintain a level of professionalism. Please refrain from bringing up unrelated topics, calling out users, communities, and groups, or engaging in any other conduct that may be deemed uncivil.
• Compliance. We expect participants to comply with our Moderator Code of Conduct (where applicable), Content Policy, Privacy Policy, and User Agreement.
• Termination of Participation. While we hope this never happens, we reserve the right to terminate a participant's membership in the AFG at any time, for any reason. This includes failure to comply with our guidelines or policies, any breach of this agreement, or any other violation of this Agreement.

Thank you for agreeing to these terms. We believe that working together can make the AFG a valuable and productive experience for all involved. If you have any questions, or concerns about this agreement or would like to report instances of policy violations, please don't hesitate to reach out to us via modmail.

I would like to be part of the accessibility feedback group and agree to the terms above.

• Yes
• No

Your link to archive.org didn't work for me, but this one should: https://web.archive.org/web/20230815101415/https://old.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/15rn2jz/why_im_not_joining_reddits_accessibility_feedback/

• Disclosure of Information. You may disclose Reddit confidential information to the extent compelled to do so by law if you (i) provide reasonable prior notice to Reddit, unless a court orders that Reddit not be given notice and (ii) cooperate with Reddit in seeking a protective order or other reasonable remedies.

This part seems particularly sketchy to me, but maybe I'm just reading it wrong. Does this mean "Reddit confidential information" as in information about the company or does this also cover private details of the lives of other participants? I can see some reasoning for the latter - though I wonder what illegal activities (other than seeking abortion) participants would even be discussing - but the former seems like a big ask. Do they notify their users in advance about law enforcement inquiries and cooperate with them in seeking a protective order or other reasonable remedies?

Good news? They replied to my message. I'm linking and transcribing my comment on this Reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/15rn2jz/comment/jwcfm6s/

About 11 hours after this post, I received the following reply:

Thank you for sharing your concerns with us.

You expect specific actionable contributions, without consideration. That sounds too much like working for free.

While we encourage participants to be actively involved in the Accessibility Feedback Group (AFG), we do not require that you complete specific tasks. Your participation is optional. The purpose of the program is to inform participants of the work we’re doing on accessibility and to give you the opportunity to give feedback and ask questions. You will also have the option to test the accessibility improvement but this is not required.

You expect participants to contact Reddit for help in preventing information from being provided to legal authorities. Offering some kind of support would be nice, but this is an actual requirement.

We’re not quite sure we understand this comment. We are clarifying here that this agreement doesn’t prevent you from disclosing information if you are legally required to do so, but if this were to happen we would want notice and the ability to prevent further disclosure (which may in some instances require your assistance).

You have language on staying on topic. My experience has been that Reddit Inc narrows the topic with little notice and to such an extent as to be useless.

The admins working on this project are only focused on accessibility improvements and have limited visibility into other areas/products. So this inclusion is to let you know that admins in the AFG will not be able to speak on other areas across the organization. However, we may be able to direct you to mod support or the help center depending on your inquiry. Please let us know if you have any other questions and if you are still interested in joining the AFG.

End quote.

In the interest of transparency, I'm sharing it and also publicly reiterating my stance - in fact, my reply will be a link to the comment.

I'm not comfortable with these terms and will not be joining the group. I would like to hope Reddit Inc. would instead have open interactions with users and hire disabled people to do the work that needs to be done here.