Your TV Is Spying On You
Your TV Is Spying On You — Ludlow Institute
You sit down to relax, put on your favorite show, and settle in for a night of binge-watching. But while you’re watching your TV… your TV is watching you.
Smart TVs take constant snapshots of everything you watch. Sometimes hundreds of snapshots a second.
Welcome to the future of "entertainment."
It's almost like we should have strong data privacy laws so companies can't spy on everything we do...
But think of the corporations! Why isn't anyone thinking of the poor withering corporations?!
European liberals are trying to weaken gdpr
So does your isp, and uses that for targeted ads. My pihole is constantly blocking a domain ran by xfinity that collects data for their targeted ad service
I don't think those two facts are related? Your isp doesn't need to connect to its servers from within your local network to track your internet usage. Something else in your network must be trying to connect to that domain
What domain do I can make sure it's blocked?
I've really gotta look into pihole.
It’s really been great
Me too
Can I get some more info. Do you know what device on your network is asking for said address?
Roku: has its own problems, but I dont use the smart tv features and turn them all off especially the wifi. It doesnt talk to my isp and ive never got requests from it.
oh I disabled my "smart" TV's ability to connect to the internet. its a dumb TV now.
it made the mistake of showing me a banner ad while I was gaming. so I promptly cut its balls off in retaliation.
You can run pihole on Ubuntu.
Point all your network traffic on it and you can still use your TV without your tv using you.
You probably can use your tv without it using you, or probably not.
I, too, use pihole. But it does not prevent your data from leaking 100% and never will. And it’s easily circumvented by using other DNS servers or even by connecting to hardcoded IPs. I dont know specifically about TVs, but some manufacturers do that.
The only way to make sure that TV can never spy is to never connect it to the internet.
I’ve never allowed my TV to have an active route to the internet since I bought it in 2019, it’s exclusively fed over HDMI by gaming consoles and an Apple TV.
The thing is, HDMI 1.4 added HEC, so what’s to prevent media players from serving as an Ethernet switch and providing an internet connection to TVs.
HEC feature enables IP-based applications over HDMI and provides a bidirectional Ethernet communication at 100 Mbit/s
I think the bandwidth is too slow for HD/4K Streams.
I am sure the 100 Mbit/s must also be theoretical maximum, i would be impressed if practical cables supports even half the orignal specs
Apple TV is watching you 😁
No, it's not. It has not connected to the internet.
Some TVs will sneakily connect to open APs to try and phone home. It is nasty but it does happen. You can only be worry free if you yank out the radio module. Some TVs make it easier than others (My LG TV made it as easy as opening the back of the TV and disconnecting, YMMV)
My TV isn't a "smart" tv.
My thoughts exactly. My Xbox is spying on me instead.
I think you meant - Me Xbox is spying on my instead.
Well, so, about that.
A lot of TV's will form mesh nets with same brand-or even across brands³-, until they find one that is connected. I've even heard reports of one with a sim card¹.
¹in a 'smoke filled room'² ²okay it was a van. A smoke filled van. And she was on some other stuff too.
³OS based i think? So instead of Sony's seeking Sony's or samsungs seeking samsungs, its android tvs or roku's or whatever forming meshes. Don't quote me on that though
Yup same, running a shield
YOUR tv is spying on you. MY tv has no smart capability.
It doesn't if you don't connect it to the internet. Fortunately most smart TVs still have HDMI inputs so you can use them as dumb TVs with a PC.
Yep. My TV has not and never will be on the Internet in any way. I picked it for its screen quality, and the fact that it also has "smart" components never even entered into the decision. Because those smart components will literally never do anything.
Stupid TVs FTW. If you can’t buy them stupid, give them a WiFi lobotomy.
There has to be a youtube guide to giving WiFi Lobotomy
no it isn't. yours might be, but not mine.
Does anyone know if there's a domain blocklist for smart TV telemetry? If so, I could easily put it into my DNS server, like I already do for ads.
I'd like to continue using my streaming apps without resorting to yet another device. I have an HTPC that runs KODI but I think it'd be a pain to replace all of my streaming apps.
Turn the TV on and keep an eye on the logs. Many of the common blocklist already block that kind of telemetry.
A couple I'm aware of:
But like flightyhobler suggested, if you keep an eye on your DNS logs with Pi-hole or managed services like AdGuard DNS and NextDNS you'll get a better idea of what's still getting through.
Thank you for posting this! You saved me a search
My ACL says my TV can't talk to the internet.
Solar systems have mobile modems in them to phone home
Cars have mobile modems in them to phone home
Maybe some TVs do too
No carrier has cell service at my house but maybe they will add a sat phone.
TVs are way too inexpensive for manufacturers to pay for modems, service fees, and bandwidth fees to collect this kind of data. They'd spend more paying for that cell connection over the lifetime of the TV than you paid for the product in the first place. Solar systems and cars that cost many tens of thousands of dollars are a completely different ballpark compared to a $500-1000 TV.
Nothing a jumper wire can’t fix
Sometimes hundreds of snapshots a second.
That's a pretty neat FPS for a tv.
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on that quote, I'd like to see proof of any smart TV having beefy enough hardware to record anything at 100fps+, and even then what would be the point? Nothing played back on the screen will even have a frame rate and 60fps... I'm sure this is a lazy article mistake
EDIT: I take it back, I talked it out with Gemini and understand the logic and realistic implementation now, it's a dedicated part of the SoC design. Still hate the fact that this is a thing, we just need to spread the word about not connecting your actual TV to the internet at all ever.
If they were recording so much couldnt tv makers be held liable for recording another companies property.
The article states that's what the privacy policy sais samsung can sample every 500ms and LG every 10ms. It doesn't really mean they are, but it's definitely possible. A very basic way of detecting content is to take a 1000 pixels evenly spaced out over the screen and store the color values. That gives you something you can match against a database. You don't need to process a 4K screenshot for this.
In other news, water found to be wet, puppies cute. More at 11.
Do you have pictures of these puppies? We need confirmation.
Oh yeah, for sure.
Mine ain't, I'm using an ancient dumb TV.
I'm not, but I've disconnected the Internet from it. It can try all it wants to send the data to the mother ship.
Soon they may come with cellular capacity. Cars and e-bikes already do.
You gotta Faraday cage it!
even better we dont use tv anymore, just a PC.
Still gonna need a large screen somehow unless you watch all your stuff at the desk or through a laptop.
99% of what we watch is from streaming (Netflix, YouTube, etc). A dumb tv with a Chromecast probably isn't any better.
What 4K TV can I buy that doesn’t do this guys help? Or should I stick to monitors???
I mean... Just don't hook the TV up to the internet. Don't join your WiFi network on the TV.
Kind of a simple solution.
Until the cost of a sim card w/service is less than the revenue they generate from it. Which I fear is scarily close.
Doesn't work anymore. They do dark mesh networks.
Sceptre still makes TVs that are just that, no underlying smart OS
TY!
Look for Signage Displays. They're basically TVs with different software.
Never heard of those before. Thanks
I got xiaomi, opened it up and disconnected the Bluetooth / wifi card. Connect it to a linux device and now it is a shitter version of a dumb tv. It's crazy how smart tvs really really suck at being dumb. But it does work once you get used to some annoying quirks.
Tip: connect a cheap air mouse/keyboard to it as a remote
You can buy any TV. Just turn off the tracking in the settings and plug in a streaming stick.
The company that made my TV is engaged in copyright infringement, you say? Transmitting copyrighted images over the Internet for profit?
Huh.
Hundreds of snapshots a second? So my tv has at least 200 Hz? Or do they snap the same frame multiple times just for fun?
Jokes on them: I watch videos on my tablet. There’s no way that’s spying on me, right? Right?
Not if your tablet runs an open source operating system without tracking. Like GrapheneOS or LineageOS, which both can be set up entirely without Google services, or sandboxing apps.
The built-in OS on smart TVs almost always sucks. The built-in OS on our LG is slower, has less apps, and has less support for HDR and higher resolutions than our Fire stick.
Just don't use it and instead plug in a Fire stick, turn off its tracking, then sideload apps like BeeTV and HDO Box.
I know Amazon has a bad rep from a privacy standpoint but the Fire stick is super cheap compared to its competition and lets you turn off the tracking in one page of the settings menu.
The article says the TVs still capture input and do recognition from external sources so using an external device is not helping.
Edit: Unless your tv is not connected to the internet.
The TV can still connect via weave, Amazon sidewalk, or other mesh networks through your neighbors doorbell or thermostat or whatever... Even if you never connect it, it could still report. Have to open it up and destroy the antennas.
I guess I'll stick with my 2012 Toshiba 55" dumb TV.
We probably have the same model - the one with the big oval stand. Every once in a while I wish it was OLED and/or higher resolution, but it's not worth the expensive or all the modern "features" such as these.
No it’s not.
Still got an old Panasonic plasma from 2010 and it’s going strong.
But I am aware of the “wonders” of post-purchase monetization, which is how they’re printing out so many of these cutting edge OLED big screens for surprisingly low initial purchase prices
Part of the reason why I take good care of my little 24" dumb TV. It's on the lower end (poor viewing angles, absolutely no adjustment on the legs) but I still have a use for it, so I won't be replacing it.
The other concern I have with smart TVs is because manufacturers basically install a smartphone SoC, the TV's lifecycle is now the same as a smartphone. Most people probably won't connect a new smart TV box to their discontinued, laggy (thanks to bloated apps) smart TV, the completely functional unit just gets replaced.
We need regulation to be able to unlock these devices and make available the firmware drivers so that after the manufacturer stops support, the community can continue it (and obviously for us hackers, we would strip the system of all telemetry)
I just don’t own a tv. Getting rid of my entertainment and gaming systems and most of social media was my answer to internal peace. I don’t have streaming either.
Just create a black hole network at your house and connect all 'smart' appliances to that. Block all traffic at the router level. This prevents them trying to connect to open mesh networks and also provides the benefit of cataloging all the traffic
Comms must be infrequent bc my domain sink doesn't log anything like that from my tv when I've checked
No shit
My TV is not a smart TV, it's not spying on me.
Well, maybe a Hisense or a cheap soundbar might have a listening device, but they'll be hard pressed to phone home.
How old is it ? Which one did you buy
2 1920x1080 LG ones probably over 10 years ago. If smart TVs can't get online they can't spy on you.
I watch TV through my computer using Jellyfin. Am I at danger?
Nope
Other than your PC or Mac spying on you, you are in no danger.
Spy all you want Agent Hisense of the Roku org, I've got you in a black box. Your communications have been cut! You'll never report back to HQ now!
Not mine, since I don't have one ;)
On my Sony Bravia running Android you can just disable the Samba app from running same as you'd disable any app in Android.
At this point I'm just going to assume George Orwell was a time traveler. He's been right about everything so far.