memes @lemmy.world

6mo ago

I feel so relieved!

234 comments

Wellllll... If it hadn't been for Germany, Israel probably wouldn't exist.....
- Jesus Christ lol
  
  They're technically correct, which is the best kind of correct 👍
- And 9/11 caused Twilight.
  
  And 50 shades of gray
- Eh, if Israel did not exist, the United States would just invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.
- Is that the bright side of life?
  
  Which is a piece of shit, when you look at it 🤷
  Nobody shrugs while being crucified like Eric Idle 😄
- Well, maybe. But it was already being built for a good half-century at that time.
- Also Nazis
- If you are arguing like that we can also find the blame for WW2 by whatever unified the German Reich in the first place. It's a silly way to pass blame.

- I take comfort in knowing I would be decimated before even realizing what's happening in the case on a full-on nuclear warfare.

Fixed
EDIT: Double fixed
- Thank you lmao I was like why is there an American flag

Germany is Europe's biggest supporter of Israel.
The biggest issue is that we, the EU, are on the side of Germany now. And their track record with world wars isn't great.
- To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of "original sin". What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.
  The problem is that "nothing of the sort" has translated into "opposing Jews in any way". It seems to me like Germany sees itself as bound to support Jews (and thereby the Jewish state Israel) no matter what in order to "atone for their sins", and I can understand that. However, right now, Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we've seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust. It's very hard for Germany to oppose Israel without tickling a part of their history that they've done a laudable job at condemning.
  What Germany needs now, is to separate their history from their current politics. I understand that it's difficult, and I don't have an answer to how it should be done, but it needs to happen, lest the same crimes are committed again.
  
  Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we’ve seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.
  I don't say this to excuse anything Israel is doing, but this is gross recency bias that is glossing over numerous genocides that have occurred since the Holocaust, including:
  2020-2022: Tigray Genocide in Ethiopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_in_Tigray (Est. 162,000 - 600,000 killed)
  2003-2005: Darfur Genocide in Sudan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_genocide (Est. 98.000 - 500,000 killed)
  1996-1997: Hutu Genocide in Zaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Hutus_during_the_First_Congo_War (Est. 200,000 - 233,000 killed)
  1994: Tutsi Genocide in Rwanda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide (Est. 491,000 - 800,000 killed)
  1987-1989: Isaaq Genocide in Somolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaaq_genocide (Est. 50,000 - 200,000 killed)
  1986-1989: Genocide in Kurdistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign (Est. 50.000 - 182,000 killed)
  1975-1979 Cambodian Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide (Est. 1,386,734 - 3,000,000 killed)
  1971-1979 Uganda Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Republic_of_Uganda (Est. 100,000 - 500,000 killed)
  1972 Ikiza Geneocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikiza (Est. 80.000 - 300,000 killed)
  1971 Bangladesh Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide (Est. 300,000 - 3,000,000 killed)
  Not technically genocides, but also worth mentioning in the same vein:
  1959-1961 Chinese Famine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine (Est. 15,000,000 - 55,000,000 killed)
  1930-1953 Soviet Gulag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag (Est. 1,500,000 - 1,700,000 killed)
  So ya, other than those events, this is the closest thing to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.
  
  Germany doesnt care about Jews. The moment Jews are not fitting the box Germany designed for them by not blindly supporting Israel, those Jews are facing the same repressions like anyone else who challenges Germanies blind support for Israel.
  German politics, media and parts of civil society think that blind support of Israel is serving certain interests of Germany and they do it purely for these reasons. In particular we see it being used to justify racist discrimination against Arabs and other "brown" people and to crack down with increasing authoritarianism on leftist and ecological political positions.
  Like Israeli society they have deluded themselves into thinking that they know better than everyone else in the world what is right and wrong and fail to see, how this actually harms Germany tremendously.
  
  The problem is that Germans now just look generally pro-genocidal.
  
  To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of “original sin”. What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.
  The problem with Germany is that they learned the wrong lesson out of WW2.
  Instead of learning "genocide is bad", it's "Jews are always on the right side of history". And that's why Germany is completely uncritically supporting Israel with everything that it does.
  
  They could've gone down the Humanist route of "Never again shall this be allowed to happen to anyone", making it about the victims and their human suffering rather than their race, but instead they chose to make it about Race, keeping the way of seeing other human beings from before, just with different untermenschen and ubermenschen.
  The visual artifacts of NAZIsm might have been forbidden, but the whole judging and treating people differently depending on their race is a strong as ever.
  Their continued support for Israel whilst they're trying to commit a new Holocaust, shows that Racism as a way of viewing and relating to others in Germany is as strong today as it was in the 1930s.
  
  The Nazis were just as brutal to Russians as they were to Jews, and yet modern Germany has no trouble understanding it shouldn't support Russia today. The "holocaust guilt" excuse for supporting Israel seems like an excuse
  
  What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself
  Nazi Germany also murdered more than 10 million Russians, both civilians and soldiers, and had a literal genocidal plan against slavic peoples (Generalplan Ost), and yet they don't support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Almost as if the whole "holocaust shame" thing was a myth, and it was used to manufacture consent towards Israel's genocide of Palestinians.
- Maybe it's time for a redemption arc.

They're highly complicit in Israel's actions.
- Germany has great PR, it plays itself as such a progressive nation free of hate or want. It’s bullshit when you look beyond the surface
- They also ditched nuclear energy and stayed over reliant on russian fossil fuel, funding the Russian war machine
  
  The nuclear rods in Europe are mainly made with Uranium from Kazakhstan processed in Russia.
  The German failure was not expanding renewables. Getting out of nuclear energy is geopolitically and financially sound.
  
  These nuclear energy zealots are spilling over from r/europe with the same stupid arguments
  
  Now we're funding the US regime war machine after they blew up NS2 and 'sanctions'.
  Paying extortion prices for dirty US fracking gas that make companies uncompetitive and causing the economy to collapse.
  The US leeches always profit from war, same as in WW2.
- Always on the wrong side of history.
  Not a coincidence that fascism and zionism are twins

Germany is the second largest provider of weapons to Israel, and a huge longtime consumer of Russian gas, this is a tonedeaf as hell meme.
- Lol 😂🤡

Except Germany keeps delivering weapons to Israel, gives them diplomatic and political coverage, and apparently even has planes in the air to support Israeli fighter jets in their attacks on Iran.
- you think WW3 is starting because of Israel? Can I also get under the rock your been living under, must be nice there.
  
  Israel is a prominent member of the global western capitalistic hegemony, and they are escalating tensions with their genocide and attack on Iran. I wouldn't say they're the only ones responsible, but they do share a large portion of the blame.
  
  Israel is not only at the very center of the world (look at maps: it's very much the geographic center. That's why we call it middle east.)
  it's also reckless and like a dying star, a supernova. it blows up without regards to casualties. it is a very dangerous situation that we're in indeed.
  
  Yeah sounds like you're under deep rock for so long, you mistake the sky for an even larger rock.
  
  They only threatening to nuke the planet. No biggie! \s
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Germany is, after U.S, the most pro Israel country of all countries

They are complicit in supporting and arming Israel as well as supporting the genocide.

I'd find Germany less responsible for WWIII if maybe they ya know didn't support a genocidal terrorist ethnostate at the expense of domestically suppressing speech calling out that foreign policy, but I guess it just be like that sometimes
- It's very mean of Germany that foreigners who trash University property and threaten their staff violently face deportation.
  How can they do such a suppression of free speech?
  
  foreigners who trash University property and threaten their staff violently face deportation
  What are you referring to here?

AfD be like: It hasn't officially started yet 👀

You misspelled Austrians.
- While Hitler was Austrian, Germans carried out the orders.
  But honestly, the 1918 influenza was largely responsible for WWII, because the people who would have prevented Germany from getting ass fucked in the Treaty of Versailles were sick and didn't attend.
- That's not how you spell Australians and last I checked they didn't start any world wars.
  ...
  ....
  ...
  ....
  /s

Israel: we wouldn't have started it without Germany's security guarantees!
- They also might not be a zionist county. Hard to say what things would look like now if dumbassery 1 & 2 hadn't occurred.

Germans?
- They're people from the country between France and Poland
  
  between France and Poland
  Not if they have a say in the matter.
  
  I would have gone with: "it's the majority of germs!"
- Yes, hi, you may not know of us, understandably - we like to keep to ourselves and not meddle in the affairs of others, ever since... The Incidents.
  
  Incidents?
  
  we like to keep to ourselves and not meddle in the affairs of others
  Tell that to Yugoslavia, Libya or Iraq
- They're like Austrians without the sense of humour (AH notwithstanding....)
- I think they call themselves almonders or something.
- Forget it, he's rolling.

https://xcancel.com/josemendes2/status/1934190961719972153#m
Except we are once again fighting on the side of genocide.

Well if they didn't genocide all those millions of innocent Jews 80 years ago, western countries wouldn't accept the invasion and genocide in Palestine over the last decades
- Palestine population has been increasing over the last decades. ⅔ of European Jews died in the Holocaust. Comparing very different tragedies here.
  https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/

Ne digga, unsere scheiß Regierung macht den Kack ja mit, weil einzige Demokratie im nahen Osten und Staatsräson und so
- Ne digga
  BRUH y'all can't just use my dyslexia against me like that wtf. Did not read this right at first!

Austrians*
- So it was the Austrian military, not the German military? I guess they should update the history books.
  
  WWI: Franz Ferdinad of Austria gets assasinated —> Austria-Hungary starts WWI
  WWII: A famous Austrian failed painter wasn’t happy about the outcome of WWI
  And the initial post doesn’t mention any “military”

Not directly, but the government supported getting there.

Germans when they realise WW2 was caused by an man from Austria
Germans when they realise WW1 was caused by the assassination of the archduke of Austria and the subsequent declaration of war from Austria-Hungary on Serbia.
You could say Austria is responsible, but Hitler was in Germany, so WW2 is kinda our problem…
- Well, for now, I haven't seen Austria do anything to start WWIII
- Also, the State of Israel was created right after, and as a direct response, to WWII.
  
  No it wasn't, settlers had been moving into palestine since the late 1800s. The zionists utilised the persecutions of jews in europe to get bodies to staff the frontier sure, but that had also been an established MO since Herzl. The creation of Israel coincides more with the US taking charge of europes colonies and settler projects. Which is why the Lehi and Irgun had to do the terror attacks on the UK in order to establish themselves as a country. They pledged their allegiance to the new white overlord and got rewarded with statehood for it.
- Clearly, this is all Austria's fault. To punish Austria, Germany needs to invade and annex it....
  
  I know you're being sarcastic. Although I tried to say that WW2 is "our" fault (Germany caused it). But as I read my last sentence again, I do see it's weirdly written.
  Anyway, I am just frustrated that we (Germans) are apologizing forever, paying other countries huge amounts of money, etc. Yes, it was very very bad what happened during that time, but we weren't the only ones doing bad shit! The "great and free" land of the fucking USA is (TO THIS DAY) the ONLY state, that has ever dropped a nuclear weapon on another country. Or have they apologized to Vietnam? To the hundreds (if not thousands) of victims to the crimes of the CIA? Have they apologized for Project MKUltra? Or the Tuskegee Syphilis Study? I could go on, but it's already a pretty good list... Now, did the US do anything to apologize, pay compensation or anything? NO! They tried to hide it. Just like communists in China or Russia or the former USSR. And whose the biggest enemy of the US? THE FUCKING COMMUNISTS! (I am not a communist by the way, I just wanted to point out the irony.) Furthermore: China, Russia, USSR, etc. have been spying their people. Guess who is spying (not only US Citizens): the motherfucking NSA! Like with the Intel ME ( Great Video from Mental Outlaw btw ). Or EternalBlue, which the NSA exploited for years and not telling Microsoft to fix it...
  Sorry, this hatred has been building up in me the last several months. But I am not hating the citizens, they (systematically) don't receive education, it's not their fault.

Last time, germany at least had the guts to spearhead the reich. This time they're just a bootlicker, following their imperialist friends.

Glad to see the responsible countrys flag on the left side.

Death to Genocidesmany for its support of the apartheid regime in west palestine.

They have a big share in the current state of affairs, whether it is the genocide of the Palestinian people or the complete failure of Europe. the German state hasn't changed a fucking bit
- What is meant by "complete failure of Europe"?
  
  I'm being hyperbolic, but whenever tensions hit the EU members will just go back to their old ways, the idea European states will somehow unify in face of a threat is absolutely laughable, no Belgian soldier will ever take orders from a polish sergeant.
  When the question was asked of "How will we pay for covid" The dutch gov was instantly saying they "won't pay for those lazy southerners"
  The EU alliance always was about monetary gain, not building an actual coherent political entity.
  
  Probably the endless degradation of worker rights, welfare state, salaries and infrastructure since 2008, coupled with the rise of the far right?
- I think Germany stopped invading Poland and killing Jews in gas chambers. So I'd say Germany changed at least a little bit.
  
  Germany happily joined the bombing of Libya and Yugoslavia, and the invasion of Iraq. Just because now it's brown people dying, it doesn't make it better.

Do people actually think the middle east conflict will start ww3?
- Israel is currently attacking Iranian Oil and Gas.
  Iran could retaliate by closing the Persian Gulf, where 20% of global Oil and Gas shipping goes through and to weaken US, UK and other support for Israel. This could bring these countries onto the plan, but also Israels allies UAE and Saudi Arabia. When more countries join against Iran, China could feel threatened, or see an opportunity in the distraction, Russia will certainly ramp up its efforts in Ukraine. The economic fallout of the explosion in oil and gas prices globally could tip over other conflicts into wars.
  This can definitely spiral into another world war. Remember that WW1 was caused by serbian seperatists assasinating the austrio-hungarian crown prince.
  
  WW2 started as a series of separate, regional conflicts that gradually pushed the world to a major war. Japan in China, Italy in Africa, Germany in Central and Eastern Europe.
  The world didn't just wake up on Sept 1st 1939 and say: I guess we at war now. These things always start this way and spiral out of control.
  Even the world's first global conflict, the War of Spanish Succession started with French and Austria fighting over the crown of Spain but various other European powers were dragged in as various regional conflicts coalesced into a major war.
  
  Iran can draw more aggro if they want but theyre getting pretty fucked as is and probably dont want anymore countries pilling on.
  China doesnt care about iran and theyre winning by not being involved while the other super powers get bogged down in war and internal conflict.
  Russia doesnt have anything left to increase vs Ukraine unless it goes nuclear.
  WW1 was started because both Austria-hungry and Germany (partly) wanted a war. The assassination was the excuse and not the reason.
- there's a low likelyhood.
  The key question is what will happen to Israel in the future?
  In my opinion, Israel cannot stay in the middle east for much longer. They have to move out.
  Israel is so universally hated in the middle east, it's difficult to put into words. (at least that's what i got from other people's messages). it's difficult/impossible to conceive a long-term stability in the region with Israel in it. and israel knows this, of course.
  The question is: what will israel do? Will it escalate the conflict to try to grasp to power through military dominance in the area? Or will it soften its grip and let go of control in the middle east?
  
  I just want to respond to my own comment with some follow-up thoughts:
  Israel is mostly backed by the US to "protect US interests in the area", which i translate as: mostly oil.
  Since the transition to renewable energy is happening at an exponential speed, i guess that the consumption of fossil fuels could be reduced by 2040 by 90%. That would make the US completely independent from oil from the middle east, and the US would no longer need Israel, which would weaken Israel's grip in the region. That is why i think they would retreat, instead of attack.
  Just my two cents.
  
  I think your souces for whats actually happening is clouding your judgement. There is no world where isreal is forced out of the middle east. They've made the strategic moves to take those options off the table.
  Isreal is more than capable of defending themselves with us support. They have destroyed almost all major threats in rhe region with Iran being the last one.
  Arabs in the region will never forget this war. But Arabs also hated isreal before so I doubt much has changed on the perception front.
  Most likely isreal will go back to normalisation with governments in the region since all major terrorist factions are virtually eliminated. If they can get regime change in Iran there is a good chance things will stabilise. Maybe they will need to destroy the houthis as well.
- There's a genocide like in ww2, but it doesn't threaten capital so every state supports it.
  
  What are you getting at? Ww2 wasn't started over a genocide.

It's still possible to ask if Germany could have prevented it.
- Sure. Maybe if they did a better job at WW2. But I don't think that'd necessarily be an improvement...
  
  Maybe if they did a better job at WWI?
  
  If anyone had done a better job killing the nazis after...

Wwi lead to wwiii lead to wwiii it's germans all the way down
- Germans were no more responsible for WWI than the British, French, etc.
  
  "Mad as a bicycle!"
  
  I mean if you wanted to peg a nation state, Austria-Hungary were the ones who declared and set off all the other connected traps

Apparently germany is delusional and genocidal as usual.
- Oh come on, tell me your country, then we can start the blaming game, in which we both can't change shit due to our politics!

Aren't Trumps ancestors from Germany?
- Donald Drumpf would be his name if I remember John Oliver correctly.

Serbia when we realize we are not responsible for WW3:

Not yet...

When you see it...

They sure are trying their hardest to help start it though

Germans?

Nope it was always the capitalist class.

Does that mean the US doesn't have to fix it?
- Imagine believing that imperialism fixes anything.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
  
  Imagine

Fuck Iran. Their government is way worse than Israel's. Do I need to remind everyone that they're feeding Russia with the drones that they use to attack civilians in Ukraine?
Here's hoping that Iran's next revolution won't end up in a total disaster like the previous one did.
- Do I need to remind everyone
  Judging by the number of downvotes your getting: yes.
  
  I guess this kind of stuff will be news to them also: https://www.vice.com/en/article/irans-courts-are-still-blaming-rape-victims-for-their-attacks/
- Their government is way worse than Israel’s.
  So why bomb Iranian civilians?
  
  Iranian citizens are not being targeted whereas Iran (and previously Hezbollah) bombed at least one Israeli town where there are no military.
- Their government is way worse than Israel’s.
  You can just come out and say you don't think non-white people are human.
- As much as you hate Russia's actions in Ukraine, Israel is literally committing a genocide, how can you say that's not worse than giving drones to Russia?
  
  Not "literally". Ireland is trying to expand the definition in the ICJ to make it so though.
  Ireland will not be asserting if genocide is being committed, but asserting its interpretation of the Genocide Convention.
  https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce48wpd08pgo

Jewish people when they realize they are the new nazis
- Cause every jewish people on Earth are far right israelis 🙄
- Not every jew is a zionist. Don't conflate the two. Israel does not have a right to exist, and jews do.
  
  Where should the Israel Jews go now though?
  
  You want to force Jews into the diaspora again? Brilliant move, that worked so well for them the first time around. /s

234 comments