1y ago

What's the deal with Hexbear?

Has anyone else noticed how prevalent Hexbear posters have suddenly become? Maybe sometime last week I noticed nearly every political post had at least one long thread of Hexbear users that do nothing but repeat CCP talking points while waving anyway anything even remotely reliable as Western propaganda. That or getting all excited about trolled libs. The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.

Not to mention, their info on the Fediverse observer is either straight up wrong or there's some serious botting going on. According to that, the instance is less than a month old, yet somehow they already have one of the largest, most active userbases, along with far and away the most comments of any instance.

Seems to me like Lemmygrad on steroids. Considering we defederated from them, seems like a no-brainer to block Hexbear as well.

So glad this thread could become such a perfect microcosm of why we need to defederate.

721 comments

So glad this thread could become such a perfect microcosm of why we need to defederate.
You asked about us. We came out in force to answer you. Why is that surprising or evidence of anything? We don't have a downvote feature, so we're used to responding when we disagree. And of course we're going to defend ourselves.
Its so funny how you guys became so used to being able to live in an echo chamber of western capitalist propaganda on reddit, then moved here, then had that bubble popped by us and lemmygrad, then became INCREDIBLY DESPERATE to get away from opinions you previously were sheltered from. Its just a funny reaction to witness. Meanwhile, liberalism is something I can never really escape. Because its everywhere. I dont actually have the option to completely unplug.
Anyway, if your instance defeded lemmygrad I have no doubt you'll get your way with us sooner rather than later.
- I'm all for some good dunking, but this is the response that most clearly, patiently, and convincingly explains what the deal with Hexbear actually is. OP, we are also humans who have built our opinions on real information, both historical and modern - probably more than 99% of liberals - and you'd benefit as a human and a citizen of the world to make a good faith effort to understand us.
- Sure is interesting that now 16 hours later, not a single one of these epic redditors have even tried to respond to this lol

Honestly, federation with Hexbear has improved my Lemmy experience 1000%. I think it would be silly to defederate because a vocal minority of libs don't like their worldview to be challenged. You can individually block the instance if you don't appreciate the vibe.
As far as I can tell they embrace leftist unity which is something we could all use more of.
- As far as I can tell they embrace leftist unity which is something we could all use more of.
  not to mention that a lot of well-meaning libs simply need to cross the mental barrier of "liberal bourgeois democracy = the end of history" to end up on our side. they recognize, on some level, many of the basic problems of capitalism but lack the analytical tools and deprogramming to effectively criticize it.
  if exposure to leftist views outside the mainstream gets someone, anyone, to realize that smugly whining about "tankies" on the computer does exactly 0 good for improving their own material conditions, I'd say we've done our part
  
  I always get really frustrated seeing the same places that hate cops openly and will outright say ACAB, and pro-queer and other good things, also spreading western propaganda about bad countries. Its like, man, if you could just get over this ONE hurdle.
- Glad to hear you’re having fun
- It's almost as if you can be bothered to actually check out what we're about, it turns out we're not the stereotypical "tankies" that reddit vaushites keeps crying about lol

Hexbear is actually one of the oldest Lemmy instances, been around for over three years. Due to technical issues around our high number of active users and having to rely on volunteer labour, we have only been able to federate within the last few weeks.
The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
Because they are. This isn't even a radical far left idea. Ever heard of "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky? That's one of the main arguments, that the media is owned and controlled by the capitalist class.
- Lemmy was built by communists and the audacity of these liberals to come here and demand shelter from exposure to communists is really something
  
  I have no problem with communism, I have a problem with authoritarian propaganda.
- looks at my own account age
  Nah bro I think we're all one month old bot accounts personally ran by the standing committee of the Politburo of the People's Republic of China and the standing committee of the Supreme People's Assembly of the People's Republic of Korea
- The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
  And the funny thing is like 80% of News posts come from these websites anyway. So it’s not like we’re automatically discarding them even if they deserved to be
- Seems like you're missing a ton of nuance in manufacturing consent, and have turned from the frying pan into the fire in that sense.
  Yes, Western media is biased towards corporations. This is most clearly seen in anything labeled "finance" or "money", but is pervasive.
  But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle. And they've never done anything like the Great Firewall.
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  And even if you're 100% on board with every word Marx has written, I don't understand how that leads one to defend modern day Russia and China.
  The West absolutely has problems. And it's good and right to point those out and try to fix them. But to try to paint the East as the answer to stand against the West is dangerous and dumb.
  
  And they've never done anything like the Great Firewall.
  The great firewall is for your own protection, just look at how you guys react to a small group of users with different opinions!
  
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  How do you know that? Did the US government tell you?
  
  Hexbear doesn't "defend modern day Russia". I'm sure there are some users who do purely from a position of believing a multipolar world is preferable to one dominated unilaterally by the US, but even in those users think Putin is a piece of shit.
  There's a difference between understanding NATO's role in provoking the war in Ukraine, not calling Russians orcs or comparing Putin to Hitler and defending modern-day Russia.
  
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  USians are literally the most propagandized pop on the planet.
  USians are the only dipshits who think their state will just do the right thing with zero pressure.
  Imagine thinking the people living in a system where bribery and corruption have literally been legalized and (somehow) still believe is the least corrupt system on earth, have not been propagandized into a pulp of absolute impotence and servility.
  
  1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre
  Reality is calling
  
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  You should check out literally any declassified CIA document.
  
  But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
  then you should try to do some more thinking. maybe even some reading
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
  
  But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
  First of all, multiple western sources agree with us on Tiananmin Square
  Second Iraq is definitly not the only time. Vietnam is another huge example. Literally every post-WWII military conflict has involved the press lying about it to manufacture consent. Some of the things are things you probably haven't realized you're being lied to about it yet though, so if I use them as examples it won't help. But still.
  Manufacturing Consent wasn't just about the media being on the side of the corporations, its also about them being on the side of Western imperlialist motivations. And they will lie to you about "enemy countries" over, and over, and over again.
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  You think this because you don't see the misleading happening and believing the things the western sources tell you about the "bad countries".
  
  But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered for no reason to accomplish nothing but to line the pockets of Raytheon shareholders. And you write it off as if it doesn't even matter.
  No one, neither the politicians nor the journalists who knowingly lied to you faced any repercussions. Not only that, but in many cases, it's the same people in the same positions with no reason not to do it again.
  Even if you ignore all the other times that the media has lied, how many people do you believe died at Tiananmen Square to think that the two are remotely comparable?
  
  The US government doesn’t have to (but still does anyway) mislead its own citizens because it works hand in glove with the class it represents (not you) which does all the misleading via the private “free press” that it owns and operates for it’s own benefit.
  For the life of me I will never understand why liberals think something bad is less bad when it is a private actor doing it instead of the government, but the private actors actually control more of your daily life than the government does because you live in a neoliberal hellscape.
  You have no control over anything the government OR the corporate overlords do. Does it really matter which one is screwing you when they’re basically all the same people anyway?
  With regard to China, please just try to ask yourself why the standard of living has been improving there for decades while it continues to decline in the US. It’s not fucking rocket science, but you can’t rely on western corporate media to explain it to you.
  
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  I think most of users on hexbear and lemmygrad are not from US, so internal US politics is not so important to them, foreign policy is and that's where US made a lot of haters.
  It is not even that surprising, every country that was in war with US involved is not liking it, no one likes other nation's army on their teritory, whatever the reason.
  
  But to try to paint the ~~East~~ Global South as the answer to stand against the West is dangerous and dumb
  damn you sound like a chauv lol
  just say you don't like the Asianic horde
  go full mask-off
  
  But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is
  inventing the reality of the 1989 TIANANMEN Square Massacre in the first place
  
  But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle.
  Aside from the incredible irony of this statement that others have mentioned
  the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of
  the only time I can ever think of
  What leads you to being able to think of examples in China? Was it because you were there and experienced it yourself? Or did you hear about it from people who were there? Did you look through archives in China? Did you see modern reporting from (to pick an arbitrary state) India on this topic?
  Or did you hear about it from western media themselves?
  Can you see a conflict of interest in that conception of things? Perhaps especially when it comes to reporting on media fabrications in the west?
  Edit: Russiagate is a fun example because I don't give a shit either way, but the Dem-aligned media did an excellent job of convincing their base that Russia first hacked the election and then somehow flipped the election with Facebook ads, and had QAnon-level lore with Igor Fuckstyvich and Boris Shitov in a great web of conspiracy theories to draw connections between people. It was all so tedious that I stopped following it pretty early, but a lot of people still genuinely believe that shit even as it was shown that Russia did very, very little.
  Also it keeps evading the notice of liberals that if Russia bought the election, that means Facebook sold it! I think that second one would be much more of a concern, especially since it should be more actionable for the US to control one of its own companies. Whoops.
  Edit 2: Consider that most of what you believe about the DPRK is false because the media in the west is just a constant churn of comically bullshit stories. haircuts, anyone?
  
  But the only time I can ever think of Western media doing anything on the scale of censoring the 1989 Tiananmin Square Massacre is the Iraq MWD debacle. And they've never done anything like the Great Firewall.
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  North Dakota Access Pipeline Protests 北达科他州接入管道抗议 Ferguson Riots 弗格森暴动 2017 St. Louis protests2017年圣路易斯抗议活动 Nuclear testing at Bikini Atoll 比基尼环礁的核试验 Unite the Right rally 团结右集会 Charlotte riots 夏洛特暴动 Attack on the Sui-ho Dam 袭击穗河水坝 Milwaukee riots 密尔沃基骚乱 Shooting of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile 奥尔顿·斯特林和菲兰多·卡斯蒂利亚的射击 Occupation of the Malheur NationalWildlife Refuge Malheur国家野生动物保护区的占领 death of Freddie Gray 弗雷迪·格雷的死 Shooting of Michael Brown迈克尔·布朗的拍摄 death of Eric Garner, Oakland California 奥克兰奥克兰市埃里克·加纳（Eric Garner）逝世 Operation Condor 神鹰行动 Occupy WallStreet 占领华尔街 My Lai Massacre 我的大屠杀 St. Petersburg, Florida 佛罗里达州圣彼得堡 Kandahar Massacre 坎大哈屠杀 1992Washington Heights riots 1992年华盛顿高地暴动 No Gun Ri Massacre 无枪杀案 L.A. Rodney King riots 洛杉矶罗德尼·金暴动 1979 Greensboro Massacre 1979年格林斯伯勒大屠杀 Vietnam War 越南战争 Kent State shootings肯特州枪击案 Bombing of Tokyo 轰炸东京 San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing 旧金山警察局公园站爆炸案 Assassination of MartinLuther King, Jr. 小马丁·路德·金遭暗杀。 Long Hot Summer of 1967 1967年炎热的夏天 Bagram 巴格拉姆 Selma to Montgomery marches 塞尔玛到蒙哥马利游行 Highway of Death 死亡之路 Ax Handle Saturday 星期六斧头 Battle of Evarts 埃瓦茨战役 Battle ofBlair Mountain 布莱尔山战役 McCarthyism 麦卡锡主义 Red Summer 红色夏天 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Pottawatomie massacre 盆大屠杀 Jeju uprising 济州起义 Colfaxmassacre 科尔法克斯大屠杀 Reading Railroad massacre 阅读铁路大屠杀 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Bay viewMassacre 湾景大屠杀 Lattimer massacre 拉蒂默大屠杀 Ludlow massacre 拉德洛屠杀 Everett massacre 埃弗里特屠杀Centralia Massacre 中部大屠杀 Ocoee massacre Ocoee大屠杀 Herrin Massacre 赫林大屠杀 Redwood Massacre红木大屠杀 Columbine Mine Massacre 哥伦拜恩矿难 Guantanamo Bay 关塔那摩湾 extraordinary rendition 非凡的演绎 Abu Ghraib torture and prison abuse 阿布格莱布的酷刑和监狱虐待 Henry Kissinger 亨利·基辛格
  
  As a rule the US government does not mislead its own citizens the way Russia and China do.
  You should probably re-read Manufacturing Consent.
  If you've even read it in the first place lol

the instance is less than a month old
smartest, most well researched midwesterner
- Casual Cannibal sandwich eaters unite!
  (For the record I do not consume nor condone the consumption of those particular Midwestern treats)
  
  That tater tot casserole is pretty good too, ngl. And easy to make vegan.

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
They are, it's called the capitalist class.
And your information is incorrect, hexbear is one of the oldest Lemmy instances, and we've always been among the most active. My account is over 3 years old. It's just that we only federated recently.
- It's so strange how all the rich news companies would report in a way that supports the interests of rich people. So weird!
- I, for one, welcome our new HexBear overlords!
  
  And we welcome our new peons
  
  Welcome! I love your Super Monkey Ball pfp :) we have one site tag line (a little funny sentence or paragraph at the top of page which changes every time you load) and one of them is shit talking SMB so I hope you don't get it and get turned off.
  
  hi comrade we love you fr
  
  We're not overlords we're just comrades in arms
- Ah yes, the classic wealthy journalist. Everyone knows that reporting is where the big bucks truly lie. I guess it's impossible for literally anyone living anywhere but the like 3 countries that pretend to be communist to report on anything accurately.
  
  who pays the journalists? who sets editorial policy? who prevents the journalists from unionizing?
  
  The idea that media companies in the the west are subservient to the interests of capital and the military industrial state isn't even a "tankie" take on the left. Similar ideas have been espoused by many people across the left, the most famous of which being Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky.
  
  the like 3 countries that pretend to be communist
  You sound like an immensely condescending chauvinist. Does Cuba not live up to your very informed view on communism?
  
  Like have you never had a job before? Like if you're gonna accuse people of being out of touch, stop buying $10 bananas
  
  I'm glad there are liberals like you around to tell us communists who is really communist
  
  Is the executive of the media company that owns the news outlet also a journalist? Is the financial conglomerate that owns the media company as well as the missile company, also a journalist? Come on, you must have thought at least once in your life about this actually existing hierarchy of capitals and how it influences what news gets published and who gets to work as a journalist.
  
  Ah yes, the classic wealthy journalist.
  Do the journalists you read personally hand their writings to you? Or is there some intermediary that gets them to you, some wealthy entity that handles the publishing of those writings?
  
  Ah yes, the classic wealthy journalist.
  Ah yes, the classic wealthy Amazon worker. Everyone knows that having a logistics and retail monopoly is where the big bucks truly lie.
  Obviously because the lowest level worker in this industry is not wealthy themselves, it means that suggesting the industry as a whole is both owned and serves the interests of entrenched power and wealth IS BIG DUMB LOL
  
  Friend here really thinks we're going after journalists for making imaginary bank, and not Murdoch and his mates.
  
  class is about your relationship to the means of production, not your income

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
Same type of person. Careerist strivers who all accept the basic liberal version of history and society. The liberal version of history coincides with the reactionary version of history because they both refuse to question the premises of capitalism. That is they both agree more over capitalism and Western Hegemony more than they disagree about specific cultural issues. They don't all have to be in the same room, coordinating on a narrative because they all share the same boundaries of inquiry. So the same kind of stuff gets written without active coordination. This is a roundabout way to say they're all of the same class. They have class solidarity.
A liberal news source will talk about how good and downtrodden immigrants are. A conservative news source will talk about how all immigrants are drug dealers. But they don't disagree that there both needs to be immigration or that it needs to be regulated. A good real world example of this is Democrats flipping out over Trump's racism and then upping funding for "border security" and advocating for a tech wall. Neither question the fundamental assumptions about immigration. Both advocate for the same idea, just in different abstractions. Nobody actually thinks the person who writes a bleeding heart article gets up from their chair and sits at a different desk where they write about caravans of cartel members. Though you do get the same person/organization drifting into sounding like their opposition, like the NYT. Which illustrates, again, that they're the same class and ultimately share the same goals and fears.
It's not a hard code to crack. You just have to be willing to actually question things and be curious. But there's a lot of resentment in doing that (displayed here) because part of the media is propagandizing poor people and getting them adopt the same goals and fears as the upper classes. The people in government right now spent decades selling off your jobs and livlihood to cheaper areas of the world. Because it benefited them. One of those places was China. Capitalists gave China everything they needed to become what they are. It was fun when sowing. Now, because of problems in the West, China must become a talking point and scapegoat. The rich don't like them because they're closing themselves off from foreign investment and they're not playing ball with our foreign policy. That is they pose a threat to unite with other countries and close off investment as well. If US companies can't set up shop in Taiwan, for example, that hurts wealthy people in the US. You don't have that wealth or investment so that argument won't work on you. Therefore the problem must be abstracted and layered under a bunch of cultural or moral arguments. So you get stories about how the Chinese are all savage bug people who work like robots to overthrow your way of life. They're violating your liberal ideals of free speech. They're detaining Muslims so they're too racist. They don't like LGTBT people. They ruin your bitcoin gambling. They kill their people by cooking in sewage oil and their buildings fall down.
This is to get you to share opposition to China so that by the time we work ourselves into a War, you won't really question why your children are fighting in it. They'll go die so that US companies can keep pumping out resources from those countries and keep the competition out. All the sentiments about honor and duty and security and freedom are a lie.
- A liberal news source will talk about how good and downtrodden immigrants are. A conservative news source will talk about how all immigrants are drug dealers. But they don't disagree that there both needs to be immigration or that it needs to be regulated. A good real world example of this is Democrats flipping out over Trump's racism and then upping funding for "border security" and advocating for a tech wall. Neither question the fundamental assumptions about immigration. Both advocate for the same idea, just in different abstractions. Nobody actually thinks the person who writes a bleeding heart article gets up from their chair and sits at a different desk where they write about caravans of cartel members.
  I saw the same thing with Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya.
  The range of acceptable opinion was "[opposition] is not doing enough to support the war" to "[opposition] is mismanaging this just war"
  Anyone who suggested that war was bad for both the American and Iraqi people was blacked out, including the largest protests until 2020.

So many visible pronouns to upbear in this thread.
- Yeah I'm just going through blocking all of them. I don't have anything against pronouns but I figure 99% of them are tankies so it's a pretty efficient filter.
  
  I thought the comrade one was mocking leftists until I read a few of their comments

I don't think that the CCP cares enough about Lemmy to make bots. Lmao.
We are a leftist community that has existed for about 3 years before we federated.
The stuff we believe and discuss are leftist talking points you would hear in any ML org.
Have you ever spoken to any actual, theory-reading leftists or have you only ever spoken to Neoliberal Democrat types? Because from a political science point of view, Dems are not leftists, they're capitalists.
I swear we are not scary people, we are just really, really frustrated with the capitalist status quo and the liberal bullshitting some people use to defend it.
- Bots are cheap, and Lemmy is growing. It would be foolish for them not to get in on this early.
  You are right, of course, that leftism != liberalism. But just saying that doesn't count as an argument. I haven't yet seen what Menachem is complaining about, but I will be paying attention.
  EDIT: On further read, you guys kind of feel at the very least like the left-wing equivalent of somethingawful.com.
  
  On further read, you guys kind of feel at the very least like the left-wing equivalent of somethingawful.com.
  Oh my God that's genuinely so sweet
  
  I'm explaining, not arguing.
  Bots are cheap, and Lemmy is growing. It would be foolish for them not to get in on this early.
  All I can say is I'm not a bot. What you want to believe is up to you.
  
  If you want to take the issue of social media manipulation seriously, you need to take a moment to consider who is best positioned and best motivated to carry out these operations. The vast majority of the English-speaking social media platforms are headquartered in Silicon Valley, domiciled in the US. This includes TikTok. Despite all the hippie California Ideology bullshit, the Valley has been closely linked with the Pentagon since its inception (See Palo Alto by Malcom Harris, or Surveillance Valley by Yasha Levine as two examples of this history.) Today, these giant tech firms still live off the teat of military contracts. From Microsoft to Google to Amazon.
  The social media platforms enjoy a regime of immense power and nil regulations. There are a lot of ways the state could cause these companies pain if it were interested, from rescinding contracts to imposing regulation, to engaging in some bona fide anti-trust litigation, but this doesn't happen because they have an understanding. These companies collaborate with the state in surveillance, they install figures like Jessica Ashooh at Reddit - straight out of the Atlantic Council - to run moderation policy. They facilitate counterinsurgency by sweeping up disclosures like the Blue Leaks and shutting down dissident communities in the midst of large scale civil unrest. They flood these platforms with war propaganda when it is convenient, lay the seeds of doubt whenever US interests are challenged abroad. They allow floods of fake users to post positively about US-aligned coups like the one in Bolivia, or the SOSCuba nonsense. We literally have military formations who's sole task is to manipulate opinion on social media.
  These are the people manipulating public opinion on social media. They are the ones holding the keys to the platforms. The ones who DECIDE what the algorithm is going to show you day after day after day. The ones who let shitholes like r/The_Donald to run roughshod for years, then ban communities like r/ChapoTrapHouse in the middle of the biggest domestic protest movement in US history. The ones who remove moderators from places like r/PresidentialRaceMemes and replace them with ideologues from r/Neoliberal to ensure the website closes ranks against the most underwhelming candidate and political vision conceivable for the moment.
  Seriously consider the power held by the people operating these platforms. What they believe. What their material interests are. Who they network with. Who they do business with. What constraints exist to severely punish them if they undermine the interests of state. Consider that, and balance that against the overblown panic about foreign influence bots. Which one do you think has a bigger impact?
  States are massive, chaotic social systems. I'm not going to say that foreign influence ops don't occur, because within each state there are competing factions with different interests. But consider China is much more concerned with domestic conditions within their country than they are about what a bunch of Redditors, who they have blocked, think about them anyway. Consider the same about Russia. Consider the disparity in power these countries have to manipulate infrastructure owned and operated in the United States compared to the people who actually own it, and the state agencies which have the jurisdiction to destroy these firms if they step out of line.
  
  first and second off lmfao
  third off yeah im pretty sure a plurality of users here are veterans in their late 20s to early 30s of the mid-2000s cultural miasma
  
  undefined
  
  Exception in thread "main" IllegalArgumentException: 23 at parseLlamaTokens.main(parseLlamaTokens.java:28)
  
  There's definitely a lot of SomethingAwful influence in our culture. /R/chapotraphouse, the subreddit whose banning spawned our website, had a ton of that energy too.
  
  It would be foolish for them not to get in on this early
  China has never been very good at English soft power projection
  
  it do smell like :10bux: in here
  
  But to Complicated for th West to use , CIA simply doesnt have the Budget... Only Iran does !

Everything that doesn't confirm my bias: Bots from the CCP!
Everything that confirms my bias: reliable western sources!
- News source reliability:
  
  Shit how do we not have :same-map:
- what would happen if mediabiasfactcheck tried to rate itself? :thonk:

Stalin defeated fascism
- That's the main reason why nationalist chauvinists like OP hate Stalin.
  
  The Baltic nationalists are just mad that Stalin forced them to stop murdering Jewish people.
- "We liberated Europe from fascism, but they will never forgive us for it" — Marshal Zhukov,
  
  The main thing I learned about the 20th century that made it all make sense, is that the leadership of the Western Allied countries all believe their countries fought on the wrong side of WW2. You don't need to look any further than their actions in Latin America to support that claim.
  
  It's literally fucking crazy how he could see that coming all the way back then

We're posters. We're active.

Honestly if reading views that are different to your own in posts that reach the federation /all/ page is a problem why leave reddit? One of the best things about this place is it NOT being a bubble of liberal-only thought where people jerk each other off all the time. Have conversations with us, realise that we have evidence for everything we say. I'm happy to chat to anyone.

We've existed for three years but about a month ago we converted to upstream lemmy so that's probably why it says we're only a month old.
As a community our focus is to be a radically queer inclusive (literally more than half our mods are trans or enby and most of the cis mods are some flavour of gay or bi) space for leftist unity that heavily discourages lurking (which is probably why our posts are so visible because no one really just downvotes and moves along when they see a comment they don't like - we literally don't even have a downvote option)
We federated like a week ago and so I think our users are still letting the urge to dunk out of their systems, personally I can't really be bothered with all that (except with one guy that came into our instance and started slinging around homophobia at the users and immediately got dogpiled) I'm mostly just posting on the cool queer communities on lemmy.blahaj.zone
- Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a "shitlib" and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
  What really puts the nail in that coffin, though, is the very extreme support Hexbear has for China, unless, again, you are comfortable denying everyone basic human rights so it's considered inclusive.
  
  Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a "shitlib" and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
  When you live in a society where then entirety of mainstream discourse is between one side rainbow-washing carpetbombers and the other side calling that rainbow-washing evidence of an evil queer agenda, it sure should look like anyone repeating mainstream talking points is a shitlib.
  What really puts the nail in that coffin, though, is the very extreme support Hexbear has for China, unless, again, you are comfortable denying everyone basic human rights so it's considered inclusive.
  Sticking to the queer topic, this is like when people used to concern troll about Cuba because it had laws in the '70s that were as homophobic as the typical western country, but that has become more difficult in the last few years as it has taken up -- to my knowledge -- the most progressive, inclusive family code in the world.
  China right now is perhaps slightly behind the average western country in this respect, but there is a clear positive trend.
  
  Supporting China is normal and good. Sorry there aren't any mods here to make it seem like your bazinga brain views are popular.
  
  Ok, which HumanRights ™️ are we talking about?
  
  idk i'm a trans lesbian and i have been on hexbear for 3 years and never been insulted or made to feel unwelcome on account of my identity a single time
  now if by "inclusive" you mean "tolerant of right-wing bullshit" then no, we're not, and we never will be
  
  Hard to be inclusive if you let bigoted shitlibs do their thing without pushback .
  
  Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a "shitlib" and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
  As a trans woman, i've never felt safe in liberal spaces, and the reason for that is largely debatebro shitheads like you who violently fight back against anything that challenges your notion of living in the best of all possible worlds, which reliably happens to include my own experiences with and thoughts on transphobia, mysogyny, classism and other forms of structural oppression and their intersections. Anytime i've done that in public online spaces that aren't exclusively trans, i've been browbeaten, called into doubt and silenced. I've never had that on hexbear. Let's not even begin with the fact that i've never had to explain to a hexbear mod what constitutes transphobia because half of the mod team is trans themselves, or that pronoun tags are mandatory, or that we've systematically banned anybody making a fuss about either of that.
  Hexbear has actually put in the work to be a queer-inclusive space. And it has done that precisely by being brutally intolerant and absolutely belligerent to queerphobes instead of doing the liberal thing of empty gestures of tolerance while upholding the status quo that maims us. Meanwhile, anything you've ever done on lemmy is posting passive-aggressive one-liners and anti-communist garbage. Go fuck yourself.
  
  lol ”basic human rights”
  I bet you're over on
  fantasizing about grinding homeless people into a slurry right now.
  
  We are explicitly anti liberalism given that it supports an inherently discriminatory economic system (capitalism).
  I'm a bisexual trans girl whose found this space to be the most accepting space I've ever been in on the internet (including many exclusively trans spaces).
  Also many of us are not as pro China as we seem from the outside, I'm a lot more critical of china than many of the other hexbear users and we have a decent number of anarchists who post here, however we close ranks against imperialist narratives pushing for a right wing coup of the Chinese government because regardless of our differing ideologies we all agree that would be awful for the Chinese people.
  
  Inclusive of marginalized groups, not liberalism
  
  Lifting 800 million people out of poverty is denying them human rights, damn Europe must be a gulag compared to that
  
  Hexbear is the most inclusive instance. If it's hard to be inclusive then we're just fucking great at it
  
  Its possible for us to disagree about china without ripping each others heads off, I've been doin it for years
  
  Getting called on the specific shit they're doing:
  "you just accuse everyone of [the shit I'm doing]!"
  
  Hard to be inclusive when the response to almost anything and everything is to call someone a "shitlib" and dip, unless you mean inclusively exclusive by insulting everyone.
  Gonna need to second the other posters pointing out that as a trans person this is by far the most queer inclusive space I've ever been on the internet. I've been around for 3 years because it's actually a breath of fresh air scrolling through interactions between people without having to tolerate the high baseline misogyny and hitler particles present in the rest of the internet.

when Xi Jinping offers to pay ur rent, its hard to say no

We've been around for literally 3 years bro. You're the new kid here.
Also lemmy was literally partially created by our users. You're the one coming into our space.
- Liberals will barge into your house, shit all over the place, then lecture you for being uncivil in their house
  
  I mean yeah thats what they've been doing in the global south.
  
  The indigenous peoples' experience.

We've been here for 3 years, before 99% of lemmitors even knew what a Lemmy was. Chapo trap house got banned from reddit, so we made a site here. Our site's code diverged from og Lemmy so we could add things like pronoun tags, and only recently had been made into a version compatible with federation. We've had time to make our own site culture of posting, whereas the rest of lemmitors are fresh off of reddit. Being suspicious of hexbear posting a lot after federation is like being suspicious of water flowing after a dam bursts.
- Seriously just click on the profiles of every pisspants liberal complaining about us and the longest they've been on the site is usually 2 months.
  American tourists rolling in and demanding everything be how they like it.
- water flowing after a dam bursts

Hexbear has been around for about 3 years and recently federated recently. I hope this clears up any confusion.

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
It's funny you mention this, since 90% of major American news articles are just slightly edited versions of AP articles.
the instance is less than a month old, yet somehow they already have one of the largest, most active userbases
we've been around, but not federated, for a couple years now.

You realize threads like this are just catnip for us, right?
- I genuinely don't understand why this person is complaining about wild leftist posting when midwest.social is also an explicitly leftist server. Maybe I'll come to eat my words, but I really don't think you guys are that out of pocket, and there's usually just as much effort-posting as PPBs. I just don't see the problem.
  Edit: the_itsb@hexbear.net has been created - that instance is hopping, I will not miss the party 🥳
  
  I really don't think you guys are that out of pocket
  Thank you. Most of us are pretty chilled out back on Hexbear, I spend my time trawling through news articles and trying to understand shit and many of us do the same. But as we are so surrounded by liberal talking points and views (in real life, with our families and friends, at work, or online on reddit, youtube, etc etc) that tend to be the most infuriating combination of a) utterly smug, b) utterly unquestioned, and c) utterly incorrect, and our origins were battling liberals on Reddit until we were banned, we tend to get a little frenzied when somebody comes along with a point we disagree with. Given that many - maybe even almost all - of us used to be liberals that got bullied and dunked on by leftists on that subreddit or on Hexbear, we generally believe in the power of insulting+educating (insulducating?) people into submission.
  Every single one of us genuinely wants to create a better world, free of poverty, where everybody has a home and food and healthcare, without that requiring exploitation of people at home or abroad, for every demographic (except capitalists and fascists, but nobody is born either of those things). So our anger also comes from the frustration about how far away from these things and how liberals and liberterians and conservatives are so maddeningly dismissive of those things like "Yeah, that would be nice, but there's a little thing called ECONOMICS" (as if many of us haven't read many books on economics and history from experts old and new) or are like "That can be achieved with the profit motive and if people just worked a little harder!" and are so hyperfocussed on individualistic solutions rather than trying to implement systemic change.
  And also American propaganda about other countries. Which I and others are especially attuned to due our aforementioned time spent going through western media in the news megathreads.
  
  midwest.social is also an explicitly leftist server
  Then I guarantee you that there are plenty of really smart, thoughtful, genuine individuals on hexbear with whom you will find common cause ❤️
  
  The thing we've been seeing is that most of these people are recent migrants from the reddit API drama and act like American tourists with little regard for the local culture. OP here has only been on the site for a month and they're already acting like they own the place. Also their baseline is tainted by spending so much time on a website utterly flooded with with US centric mainstream propaganda and bots and censorship of leftists, so when they step out of that place they receive culture shock from an explicitly leftist community (and just about ALL of the lemmyverse was before the influx overwhelmed them) that doesn't have that kind of manipulation.
  
  if anyone ever is wildin on you, they will generally respect it if you ask to disengage, thats another one of our culture things
  
  I hope you'll come hang out with us
  
  Turns out "red fash tankies" aren't an actual thing, and we just want people to have food and water and not getting murdered for profit.
  And as other's have said, come hang out with us and see what we're actually about. We'll welcome you with arms wide open.

Were you a redditor? If so, you might remember r/chapotraphouse getting banned - they had been quarantined for quite a while before that, so they were ready to migrate when the ban came down. Idk if Hexbear is the first/only place they went or just where most ended up, but it's definitely the same vibe as the subreddit, with a little bit of discord thrown in with the emotes.
I will admit to being not the most observant person - especially as I'm in the process of switching medical providers right now, so I'm between ADHD prescriptions and definitely not as with it as I could be! - but when I poked my head in over there, I saw fellow anarchists posting, so I had consequently dismissed people saying they were churning out "CCP talking points." It mostly seems to me they churn out bullying - for everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders (which I mostly approve of, or at least find amusing). And Pig Poop Balls, of course. What did I miss?
- Fair assessment. We dunk on Bernie too though.
  
  I mean, he is a centrist. He doesn't even want to abolish capitalism.
  
  here's how Bernie can still win:
- Idk if Hexbear is the first/only place they went or just where most ended up
  There was a discord server right at the start, but there was drama as there always is with discord and it quickly split into the discord group and the hexbear group basically as soon as the site went up. (this was like a week or two after the ban iirc)
  
  A number of people use both
  
  It was Just the server for a good few months before the lemmy came up right?
- but when I poked my head in over there, I saw fellow anarchists posting, so I had consequently dismissed people saying they were churning out "CCP talking points."
  To be fair, our anarchists are tankies too.
  
  Even our animal friends are tankies

Please read Manufacturing Consent to learn why DW, Fox, Pro Publica, and AP News articles seem like they're written by the same people. A very short summary is that only people that subscribe to viewpoints compatible with owners' viewpoints are allowed to write for these organizations. If you're familiar with the wealth concentration in the US, you know that the owners are a pretty small group of people and they share certain interests that inform their viewpoints.
- Also Parenti's Inventing Reality and "Monopoly Media Manipulation" and Roderic Day's "Brainwashing" [Pt.1] & [Pt. 2]
  
  You can also just slap on some old Michael Pareti talks -- they're all on YouTube with this yellow-ass VHS rip feel

Maybe sometime last week I noticed nearly every political post had at least one long thread of Hexbear users that do nothing but repeat CCP talking points while waving anyway anything even remotely reliable as Western propaganda.
Just curious, are you old enough to remember the media role in the run up to the Iraq War? The US media spread outright lies on behalf of the military industrial complex, to a degree that made it obvious to anyone watching once things started to go south after the war was well underway. It may not be quite as obvious these days as it was back then, but that kind of media manipulation is still very common. These days, you also have direct social media manipulation on top of that. In my opinion, it’s a terrible idea to accept the media narrative at face value, and you should at least consider other arguments and try to dig into the evidence a little more yourself instead of just saying someone is a shill. I think you’ll start finding the reality might be different than what you were initially led to believe.
Also on the topic of media manipulation, here is a GREAT video that everyone imo should watch: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E
- It was absolutely not obvious at all to Americans back then. Or more accurately, they wanted to believe the lies so they did
  73% of Americans were in favor of invading Iraq
  
  Some of us saw right through that shit immediately though
  
  Not sure if I made it clear enough, but I meant it became more obvious once the war started going badly and the weapons of mass destruction had not turned up.
  
  Same thing happened in Vietnam. In fact, public opinion only really changed after the politicians started saying that it was 'time to scale down US involvement' or whatever, which only came years after many people in the Whitehouse realised the war was unwinnable. In the meantime, and despite all the famous protests and anti-war marches, the public was pretty happy to follow the official line that America was the good guy and that communism had to be stopped.
  You could do an interesting analysis of this phenomenon using Gramsci's idea of Cultural Hegemony as a framing device.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
  
  Thanks for posting this. This is another great case that illustrates how western media manipulation happens.
- Great video. Bless Boy Boy and their little cotton socks. The followup is a real one-two punch.

We are one of the oldest lemmy instances. However, we only started federating a few weeks ago.

Its because thats when the federation happened right? no big question we can see the posts now is all
Also, Ive been posting on hexbear for 3 years so from my perspective all of y'all came out of nowhere not us lmao

We don't like libs around here bc y'all won't abandon your genocidal ideology while pretending you know better

Meh... I don't think defederation is necessary. Personally, my biggest issue with Hexbear is, as with most other socialist-oriented online spaces, is that it's hard to find discussion that isn't focused on it, and especially international socialism since my main focus is my community (hence why I chose this instance). It's not really my thing, I hate terms like "shitlib" and "tankie" and my big interests are outside of my worldview- that's not to say I don't care about it, far from it, but it's not something I talk/think about all the time.
That being said, it can be refreshing once in a while to have an explicitly anti-capitalist instance whose discussions don't puppet ones pushed by massive, capitalist news organizations. Not only is it another perspective but there's sometimes totally new stuff that I end up learning.
Idk. I think the biggest reason we shouldn't defederate as opposed to, say, lemmygrad, is because Hexbear explicitly supports left unity as far as I can tell, so I think it's fine to keep federating.
- There are plenty of "less explicitly political" comms on hexbear if you are interested: https://hexbear.net/communities
  And yes, left unity is important
  
  Yeah honestly daily posting on HB itself is startlingly non-political
- Left unity
- Interesting take. No bullshit - thanks for sharing.
- cheers comrade
- Hexbear tends to appear to other instances as overtly political because the bears will come out of the woodwork to dunk on libs. It's a culture that goes back to /r/chapotraphouse, when posters would share screenshots of some moronic reactionary take and drag the offender into the thread to bully them for being racists or transphobic.
  Internally, hexbear mostly consists of trans positivity and pictures of owls
  
  Internally, hexbear mostly consists of trans positivity and pictures of owls
  I keep thinking the mismatch between perception and reality will stop being funny, but not so far!
  
  Also trains! Don't forget trains!
- I hope you'll come visit some of our less political comms and stick around. Honestly it's the friendliest spot on the internet I've found.
  
  Yeah, for example I really like the cars community. I was raised in a family who liked em a lot, and I always did too so I felt a little weird being a car guy in a community who doesn't like cars much (and fair, car dependency is hell) but the one there is cool about cars and also likes alternative transportation too. Cool stuff
- I appreciate the activity, personally, though everything being political gets very tiring for me. The fediverse should be diverse and I believe things will get better with time. It would be premature to defederate. It's ok to have world views challenged, especially when the discourse is constructive and coming from a desire to reach and foster understanding. I'm hopeful we'll see that come true over time.

Hey, have you ever noticed how people throw around these big words like "fascism" and "Social-Democracy"? I mean, who came up with these names anyway? It's like they were playing a game of Scrabble and just decided to throw a bunch of letters together!
So, apparently, fascism is not just about tanks and military stuff. No, no, it's like the cool kids' club for the bourgeoisie. You know, those fancy folks who have all the money and power? Yeah, they've got this "fighting organization," like a secret club with matching jackets or something. And get this, they need the active support of Social-Democracy.
Social-Democracy, now that's a mouthful, isn't it? It's like if democracy and socialism had a baby, but they were only moderate parents. So, picture this: fascism is like the wild, rowdy sibling, and Social-Democracy is the one who's trying to keep the peace and make sure no one breaks anything. But guess what? They're secretly on the same team!
It's like having a superhero and their sidekick, but the sidekick is actually the one keeping the superhero in check. Can you imagine Batman going all out, and Robin's just like, "Whoa, slow down there, buddy. Let's not destroy the whole city!" That's Social-Democracy for you.
So, in this crazy world of politics, they're saying that the bourgeoisie's "fighting organization" can't really win battles or run the show without Social-Democracy cheering them on. It's like a tag team match where one guy does all the heavy lifting, and the other guy just stands on the sidelines, nodding like, "Yeah, you got this!"
I don't know about you, but I've never thought of politics as a game of tug-of-war between fancy clubs and their moderate pals. It's like the grown-up version of kids on the playground. "I'll be the dictator, and you can be the reasonable mediator, deal?"
But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who can't even figure out how to program my VCR. Yeah, remember those? So next time you hear these big words being thrown around, just remember, it's like a secret club with a responsible sidekick. And isn't that what life's all about?

I'm going to pretend this is being asked in good faith because even if it's not, there are people who probably are asking it in good faith.
Anyway, Hexbear has become visible recently because we began federating recently. The instance is not less than a month old, it's more than three years old, although it wasn't tracked by Fediverse Observer due to running on a forked version which had split from mainline Lemmy when the instance was created, which is why my account and many others have creation dates stretching back a relatively long way. Three years of posting on an instance made to replace a banned subreddit which had a lot of users is a recipe for having a lot of posts (shocking I know). If it looks to you like many of us have no comment history (or at least no comment history before a week or two ago), that's the result of some quirk of federation. When viewing the same profiles on Hexbear, their full often multi-year long history is visible.

Reddit is a disinfo network staffed and mediated by intelligence and defense consultants. The accusation that anyone who disagrees with the narrow set of acceptable ideology allowed on reddit is a paid shill is an intended side effect of routine exposure to it.

Yeah Idk what's up with them either man I saw them in a cupboard making babies and one of the babies looked at me

welcome to federation, enjoy your stay

folks, we have some great posters. many would say they are the best posters. they say “hexbear has the most posting power.” our posters are big and strong and powerful. you wouldnt believe some of the posts ive seen. incredible

You can't defederate, I'm the only person keeping !ohio@midwest.social and !cleveland@midwest.social active. The power and frequency of our posting is a boon to the rest of the Lemmyverse.
- Oh no. Please don't leave. We're totally begging you.
- Your instance, along with exploding heads and lemmygrad, are ruining the fediverse. I've stopped recommending it to anyone because of people like you.
  Here you are brigading
  Midwest.Social, and you constantly push authoritarian propaganda throughout the fediverse.
  
  brigading
  You can take the redditor out of
  but you can't take the
  out of the redditor
  
  We are not brigading. We're just extremely online and this post came into our feed like it did yours. Are we not allowed to comment on posts in our feed?
  
  clicking on a post at the top of All/Active is brigading. words definitely mean things.
  
  Your instance, along with exploding heads
  BOTH SIDES
  
  You're brigading. This isn't your instance either.
  
  brigading
  Learn how federation works, people saw a thread on their feed and commented on it
  
  Brigading? It's a post about us!
  
  go back to reddit hayseed
  
  someone makes a post specifically mentioning us by name slandering us, we refute it, and it's us brigading?
  wild
  
  Lemmy was created by communists, with lemmygrad and hexbear being among the first to exist. Lemmygrad second instance after lemmy ml actually. Do you see us cry and stop recommending it because there are libs on our sites?
  
  this post shows up on All on Hexbear, because we are federated. I am posting, in this thread, from hexbear.net. nobody has brigaded anything, this is how federation works. I'm sorry this is frustrating for you, but there's no reason to freak out and accuse people of brigading.
  
  We're not brigading dipshit, this is on the top of our homepage. Learn how the fuck federation works.
  Fucking asshole showing up no more than 23 days ago acting like you own the place.

All that media is owned by capitalists
- Some is owned by states owned by capitalist

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.
Seriously, if you look into each cubicle we're in we aren't all the same person
- We're just all paid by the same person

If the allowed spectrum of "leftist" discourse only ranges from free college over here to legal weed over there, there really isn't that much to talk about.
There's more to talk about, and yes argue over, if actual fucking leftists are talking beyond that narrow range of relatively inoffensive to
discussion topics.
- The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum – even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.

i dont know where these people came from. Do they not know that lemmy was started by users of /r/fullcommunism after reddit banned it?
- They think they just really like Mali over in lemmy.ml
  
  wait is it not .ml cause the devs were from mali?
- I actually didn't know this, that absolutely rules, /r/FC rocked

please tell me all about these CCP talking points

We say things that you think are untrue because reddit has been aggressively sheltering you from the truth. Lemmy is not controlled by the US State department like Reddit is. That is a big part of the reason Hexbear exists. When you step out of the censorship zone you meet ideas you haven't met before.
We were exiled from the censorship zone. We made a home out here in the wilds where we were challenged every day. We helped each other. We taught each other. We sharpened each other's posting skills. When you stepped into lemmy during the spez revolt (or whatever that was I dont know why reddexit happened) you thought it was an empty land but we were waiting out here.
Recently our admins figured out how to bridge the gap from our custom fork back to lemmy proper and so we came to see if there were any new Ideas to test and any new minds to spread our ideas to.
We are like Fremen but we post.
- We sharpened each other’s posting skills.
  your reply comes off so edgy that at least this part must be true
- We are like Fremen
  As in Fremen from Dune? But they were fooled into a religion and belief by a powerful political organization, and then manipulated again by their messiah. I’m not arguing with you, just noticed the comparison with fremen. lol
  
  No, we’re like Fremen cause we drink our own piss
  
  they mean we do cool drugs and have sweet orgies and drain outsiders of their precious vital fluids for sustenance
  
  Almost any analogy can be taken to an extreme where it ceases to make the point it is intoned to illustrate.

We were a lifeboat for /r/chapotraphouse since it's been banned. We were running a proprietary version of lemmy for most of that time and only joined the main fork a month ago.
- Crazy to think that was over 3 years ago now.
  
  And the Iowa caucus was only last week. Crazy.

to much
still ... but were getting there ,..

Do it, cowards.

my account is three years old and has 13 posts and 101 (i guess now 102) comments
as a bot, i am ashamed by my inefficiency

My quarterly KPI numbers were down and my handler was not pleased but the party always provides.
Thank Xi for the federation. This has been the best thing that happened to my social credit score since the coverup for the failure of the Three Gorges Dam.

Actually we're paid bot shills for the CPC, not the CCP.
ty, glhf, and all hail Xi

undefined

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 47 at paginateLlama.main(paginateLlama.java:28)
- Why do most of your posts show up as errors like "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 47 at paginateLlama.main(paginateLlama.java:28)" for me?
  
  Llama is a widely available LLM (like chatGPT) that you can run on off-the-shelf computers at home
  This is a bit pretending to be a bot that has malfunctioned, and it's a good one

This video should clarify what we're about & our position as lemmy's largest instance.
- Oh, a fellow Jerma enjoyer

Shitposting is our culture ❤️

I do like how libs use the same arguments as conservatives when arguing against leftists.
I remember back on the Reddit days getting called a shill for George Soros for saying universal healthcare isn't going to make their taxes go up to 99.9% and end society. And I dismissed their PragerU and Breitbart counterarguments.
Also it's easy to think of western news media as credible when you forget recent history. In the 90's they said the Mujahideen and Osama Bin Laden were freedom fighters or how Americans did some election interference in Russia to elect Yeltsin (and his right hand man Putin). Aged real well. Or how about in the 00's there were suddenly WMDs in Iraq? (I'm not going to link anything since even libs admit this was western propaganda). The cancel culture mob even got the Dixie Chicks! In the 10's it was pushing to bomb Iran or North Korea. Afaik this goes back a while, the US media blamed the sinking of the Maine on Spain to justify going to war with Spain.
Anyone with a memory longer than a goldfish should be suspicious when either liberal or conservative media posts negatives about their economic or ideological rivals. To their credit, though, sometimes they do admit they were wrong about Social Credit or the balloon that flew over the US didn't collect any information which is something. But these don't make headlines in the same way.

721 comments