New Carnivore Community does not like opposing opinions
https://feddit.org/post/13994826/7165181
Everything I downvoted was because I genuinely do not think it's good. Like meat is not going to cure cancer.
I actually really like eating meat I just try to life a life that gives others room to enjoy this earth too without mutually destroying it.
Please tell me how I am the asshole :)
Context for the cancer thing. Btw I did not downvote everything but that should not matter
I saw that too and was fucking appalled. The kinds of mental gymnastics needed to call something that is itself carcinogenic “the cure for cancer” is fucking ludicrous.
This would be a great discussion post for the !carnivore@dubvee.org community
https://www.dietdoctor.com/red-meat-and-colon-cancer-the-evidence-remains-weak
TLDR The evidence against red meat is extremely weak, and has tremendous healthy user bias, especially since most people in epidemiology surveys have a carbohydrate metabolism. For a true comparison against carnivore eaters we would need to see a ketogenic metabolism.
Seems like someone's salty about their post being at -11 ¯(ツ)/¯
I don't think YDI or anything but just block the community and move on with your life...
YDI.
If you go around down voting everything, that's not acting in good faith. Down voting the post, yeah, that's one thing and it's perfectly fine to down vote posts that are (to your best knowledge) misinformation.
The problem starts when you go into comment sections and down vote everything. See, if you're doing that, it's ignoring whether or not the comments are on for the post. Disagreement isn't a valid reason to vote bomb an entire comment section. That's what an asshole does.
Now, I have done plenty of down voting in that community. But no blanket knee jerk vote sprees. That's where you cross from reasonable opposition into just trying to fuck with people.
It doesn't even matter what the topic is for this community. It isn't about validating or invalidating your opinion of subject, it's about whether or not the mod action was justified based on your actions. And they absolutely were.
That was the only comment I voted on. Because I did not see the person being helpful based on their posts. I did not vote spree the other comment sections. I did vote on the posts... I would not call that downvoting of posts in the community kneejerk. The statement the mod gave is not true I checked to make absolutely sure.
Thank you for elaborating though.
Everything I downvoted was because I genuinely do not think it's good.
That's what you said in your post. Everything implies that you voted on more than one thing.
I'm not sure why you would down vote multiple posts instead of blocking a community, but it does change things a little as long as it wasn't blanket voting where you just went through and hit the down button arbitrarily on a long line of posts. If that's what you were doing, it doesn't change the YDI part, because that's inevitably going to get you banned from any community at some point. The question would become one of threshold; how many did you arbitrarily down vote rather than the fact of doing it at all.
If you just down voted them as you came across them scrolling the all feed, you'd only have hit maybe five or six based on the slow posting of that community. So, if it's more than that, you had to have gone to the community directly specifically to down vote, and that's pretty shitty behavior, ban worthy at that.
If it was less than that, then jet absolutely power tripped. You can't determine the intent of the user from less than a handful of votes, particularly if they're recent posts.
But, hey, that's what this community is about, figuring out where the boundaries of what lemmy as a whole consider acceptable mores of moderation and user behavior.
The community in question is entirely dedicated to dangerous medical misinformation, their purpose for existence is fundamentally bad-faith and should be drowned in downvotes
I disagree.
While I absolutely question the carnivore diet as a general thing, the way the community is handled has shifted from the way it started. Back in the beginning, I was in the same frame of thought you are, and said so directly in the community (eventually).
But jet in specific, and other users, have shifted to better citations, and a more frequent way of presenting their opinions. I do not believe they engage in misinformation currently. If I believed so, I would be obligated by my personal ethical code to attempt to have admins shut it down. Can't say it would succeed, but I'd have to try.
Since jet in specific is very good about putting in disclaimers that people should approach the diet with care, I definitely can't call it bad faith. Acknowledgement of the diet being limited in scope for the general population is good faith discussion by default.
Again, I definitely disagree with the claims made by some of the people in linked videos. What they recommend doesn't match current best practices, and is usually extrapolated from data that is specific to limited circumstances and applied generally, which is very flawed. There's also non medical issues with attempting a pure carnivorous diet, but I doubt those would be relevant to this.
As such, I still maintain that down voting everything willy nilly is a justifiable reason for bans, which is what this community is about.
If you feel that the community is dangerous, harmful, or otherwise shouldn't be accessible, throwing down votes at everything is not the appropriate method to address the issue. And that's what the post was about, not whether or not the community should exist. If you genuinely feel that strongly about the dangers involved, you should be contacting the admins of the instance and explaining that to them.
fr, like go back to Facebook where there are no downvotes, maybe the fediverse isn't a good fit for you
i look forward to the lemmy 1.0 feature "private communities" where only subscribers see posts. That would be a good way to grow niche communities
Perhaps a blend of the reddit model to make it configurable if a post can go to all.
We need to stop normalizing banning people for how they vote.
Here's the problem though. I’ve been a victim of downvote brigades. It usually starts with someone downvoting every single post in one of my communities. Fine, maybe they don’t like my politics. But then it spreads. They start hitting every community I run, even the non-political ones, and downvote everything I post. Eventually, they downvote every single post I make anywhere, just because it’s me.
Some people genuinely get joy out of doing that. They don’t read the post or care about the content. They just see a name they don’t like and hit downvote.
I’m not making this up. I saw it happen over and over. That’s why banning users based solely on voting behavior became a feature. It was needed.
So I started banning people who only showed up to downvote and never contributed. Once I did that, they stopped bothering those communities. They knew they couldn’t mess with me anymore.
Since then, serial downvoting has dropped across the Fediverse. People figured out they could get banned for it.
It wasn’t about disagreeing with information. It was about targeting people. I’m not saying OP did that, but that’s the pattern I’ve seen.
I personally would like to see votes be eliminated for the entire fediverse so the vote manipulators have no way to try to shape narratives.
You would like to get rid of votes? The one thing that differentiated Reddit and now Lemmy? Why are you not using Facebook or Discord or any other platforms focused on positive community building?
And no I did not target this person. As I have explained I scrolled hot and Lemmy doesn't have enough content yet to idk "drown out the noise"
We need to stop normalizing banning people for how they vote.
If someone never participates in a community apart from popping in to mass downvote, they have no interest to be in this community.
Like in online games we have different types of users
PvE Users - They want to talk about stuff
PvP Users - they want to win fights
The PvP users are always mad that the PvE users don't want to mingle
But if there's a community spreading harmful disinformation and it pops up in my all, I should give it an upvote for the effort or what?
I see a lot of these communities browsing by all lately and when I downvote the posts I see (which are literal harmful disinformation) I get banned for downvoting.
We are focused on health and lifestyle while trying to eat zero carb bioavailable foods.
LOL what a joke, my ancestors lived on a diet of almost all bison, but they still needed other foods like nuts and berries and grains. They ate pemmican more then they ate fresh meat. The thing is that once they had to transition to domesticated animals like cows and pigs, the general health went downhill fast. All red meat is not the same.
Eating a lot of meat is not good for you, science has proven this time and time again. The only reason my ancestors were able to live on a full diet of bison is because they ate the whole freakin animal and perserved the meat with berries and nuts (pemmican)
Never heard of pemmican before, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
LOL what a joke, my ancestors lived on a diet of almost all bison
I highly doubt this. Meat in prehistoric societies was pretty hard to come by. When you exist on the same plane as the animals, you're subject to all the stuff they plan to do to make sure they're not going to get eaten. It's a hell of a lot easier and safer just to grow some plants or do some fishing or something.
I won't say it never happened that someone's ancestor's society was just killing it and eating bison burgers all the time but the diet where you can eat large animal meat is almost entirely a modern invention caused by our overflow of wealth and productivity.
Eating a lot of meat is not good for you, science has proven this time and time again.
Eating a lot of meat in the modern day will straight-up kill you in the long run (literally), because the meat is full of hormones, pesticides, antibiotics, disease from the conditions they were kept in, and God knows what else. Societies in the ancient world that sorted out how to eat meat consistently (one prime example being domesticating cattle successfully) started exploding across the landscape and overtaking all their neighbors, it's a pretty good formula as long as the meat is healthy for you.
Meat in prehistoric societies was pretty hard to come by.
Ice Age humans would be hard pressed to find plants, especially when crossing the artic land bridge to the Americans.
Have you looked up Inuit? Not much else besides meat and fish...
I am pretty sure the carnivore community is just a big troll. Maybe it is some confused people, but it seems on Lemmy more likely to just be people taking the piss out of vegans.
It's not a troll, it's a earnest eating pattern. It has nothing to do with vegans, the entire world doesn't rotate around vegans. People can do things independently of what vegans do.
The Inuit didn't exist for thousands of years in the arctic circle eating only animals to spite vegans.
The Inuit didn’t exist for thousands of years in the arctic circle eating only animals to spite vegans.
Their population is sparse and they had absolutely no energy to spare to expand or rise up in the world, they were too busy with the incredible energy expenditure that is hunting. They didn't choose to do this as a success option, they just have no other option because nothing will grow in their environment, so it's hunt or starve.
At this time and age you can expect anything to be serious. Like biden being cloned
They say that about every fash. It's just a joke!
Brah, it's bad form to just go into a community and start downvoting every single article you see. YDI.
I'm seeing more and more Lemmys doing that to try to control their narrative. Not cool.
But what if you read each article, find it's a pile of shit, then downvote it?
Then your in the wrong community
Why do you keep sticking around and reading shit you don't like? And for most, you can tell by the title if it's gonna be something you are interesting in reading.
How about you read it, think to yourself, "that fucking sucks" and move on. Why do you have to rate it with a vote? Why are you trying to let people know you didn't like it?
YDI
You went to a community you disagree with and downvoted almost everything that was there. Sounds like probable trolling to me.
I went to the community because a post from it crossed my hot posts page. I did disagree with the post and subsequently checked out the community.
The community in question is entirely dedicated to dangerous medical misinformation, they deserve worse than downvotes
What is with all the twats purposefully going into communities they don't agree with just to be asswaffles?
YDI, and quite frankly I applaud the mod for not putting up with your bullshit and shutting you down before you disrupt their community.
What's with all these communities who can't handle a single opposing viewpoint. Almost like the point is just to sit around and jerk each other off.
Nobody owes you a place to voice your opinion. Our instance, our rules. Accept that, or get banned, it’s that easy.
The mod message clearly says it wasn't because of an opposing viewpoint but was for mass downvoting.
You go into a community you already disagree with you're going to see a lot of comments you disagree with too. Mass downvoting isn't engagement. Perhaps instead of downvoting all those posts, OP could have responded to them with their opposing view and actual engaged with the opposition like they did in the one referenced post.
YDI, mass downvoting is toxic.
Please tell me how I am the asshole :)
You are not the asshole. As I said in the above post, if you're downvoting everything it's the wrong community for you.
The community is !carnivore@dubvee.org if anyone is interested in participating
I should be explicit - I welcome opposing views, constructive debate, polite back and forth of data and ideas. That is what i live for, that is the power of lemmy.
What I don't tolerate is hostility and making the community unfriendly to new posters. The intention is to create safe space for people to talk about carnivore, so attacking users either via antagonistic messages or downvoting their content isn't going to work for me.
Well said!
The community is !carnivore@dubvee.org if anyone is interested in participating
I would, but I'm instance banned from dubvee for being a Luigi supporter
I welcome opposing views, constructive debate, polite back and forth of data and ideas. That is what i live for, that is the power of lemmy.
Methinks you picked a bad instance for that :(
You're in luck. With dubvee closing the community has moved to !carnivore@discuss.online
Refers to the Sidebar: "This is a community in the spirit of “Am I The Asshole” where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not."
Edit: And I did not, I think if you search for audience on a public site it should be the deal that the public is invited to discuss and form opinions by voting. I think there might be some interesting things about micronutrients and wether it is feasible to get them in any way other than meat but the things I downvoted I do not agree with. Please have your bubble but as I said I actually love meat, so I am not by any means radical about that. I'm here to discuss wether the feddit (Lemmy) community deems an opinion on a topic differing from the main line of a community expressed through voting an offence or a valid participation in the topic of a community...
YDI, going into a community to downvote everything is toxic behavior and mods have every right to ban you for it. And they probably should, it's obviously not a good fit for you.
Dangerous medical misinformation should be downvoted, communities dedicated to it should be disbanded
In the case of a hypothetical community dedicated to medical disinformation, I think the way to go is not mass downvoting but reporting posts/comments and letting admins deal with it. If necessary, admins can go as far as deleting the community. If the community is on a different instance, they can still “delete” it from view on their instance, and ultimately there’s always the “nuclear option” of defederation.
Mass downvoting is generally how one gets banned from a community or instance.
If you think there is dangerous medical misinformation you should report it or message the admins. Downvoting everything just looks like Vote manipulation to regular people because it is, and those mods are going to ban people for it either way. It also doesn't help make admins aware of it, so for policy violations doing that instead of reporting or messaging admins is as useless as doing nothing at all.
I don’t think I’ll be taking any life advice from someone called the Steak and Butter Gal
I'd probably hit her up for barbecue advice, though.
Definitely, i bet they’d be as delicious as they are life threatening
Unless the mod is straight up lying about you down voting everything in the thread: YTI.
The mod, Jet, has a shitty tool that considers someone to 'down vote everything' if someone down votes the single comment that Jet added to one of his own posts in his misinformation spreading communities as he explains here: https://lemmy.world/post/29364582/16948483
Currently it does not, if someone really dislikes a community enough to down vote a post and then go through the effort to open it and also down vote the only comment, it’s a strong signal they are not a good fit for the community
That's right, if you open a single post by Jet in one of Jet's misinformation communities you saw on All and down vote the post and Jet's one comment that expands on the misinformation then you are accused of 'down voting everything' and banned from all of Jet's communities. That includes seeing a single post in All, opening it and down voting the post and the comment.
the ban only applies if the account never comments, posts, or upvotes. A strictly negative interaction signal.
Though, even then a minimum threshold should be set. That's just all kinds of stupid.
OP downvoted every post in the comm. That's not a shitty tool, that's a shitty user
Edit: It's hilarious how biased parent commentor is, that he downvoted me pointing out something simple and obvious.
Sometimes the trash takes itself out
Holy moly I didn't even know that existed or that anyone can (easily) see your votes. Let alone bots.
If I made a mistake and you want to participate in the community productively I'll unban someone who asks and gives their word to maintain polite discourse.
The mod is straight up lying about dietary science in a way that will definitely get someone killed if taken at face value, dangerous misinformation deserves to be downvoted
Vegans are touchy because they are always experiencing the suffering of others through empathy they refuse to tune out. "Carnivores" are touchy because they resent the moral judgement of others.
Carnivores are simply eating more meat to push back against the progress vegans have made to reduce suffering in this world.
push back against the progress vegans have made
Two people reinforcing their assumptions about a group rather then talking to that group are not going to have a realistic view of the world. It's a bit narcissistic to only view the actions of others in how it relates to you, there are more motivations out there.
For myself, I'm very concerned with reducing human suffering:
Carnivore is a tool, mostly used by people who have very specific problems. I tried to make that very clear in my decision tree post, which you downvoted - which means you read it, right?
do you know how I know you haven't read anything jet posts there?
YDI.
Ignoring dangerous medical misinformation is lazy and unhelpful
Boo this man!
At this point you just wanted to literally be comment nr 100😉
Fash gonna fash.
I think you’re right to oppose the carnivore diet however downvoting every post is not the best course of action.
deleted by creator
That is objectively funny😂
You win the interwebs today!