choas
choas
choas
There's an XKCD comic for that.
This comic is so old, that both should be rather easy now
Oh, yeah, the specific example listed was solved within roughly a month of the comic being posted. But the idea still applies, as seen with the twitter post above.
only because people never stopped asking it to be able to id birds.
It took almost exactly 5 years from publication for that to be commonplace.
Well yeah, we have a character model for the giant demon and the giant demon has a huge use case.
A scarf? That's a model extension. Either you're asking me to create a whole new character with a scarf baked into the mesh that will deform weirdly as the character moves, or you're asking me to implement an accessory-anchor system all for the sake of a scarf (albeit other accessories might use this new framework) which will then need a physics/cloth sim to even look half good.
You could import fabric physics and just have it lie there, but that's going to be a bigger hit on performance than you possibly can imagine and it will move weirdly (in large part becomes we're not modeling wind, just fabric in a vacuum) and the model features it will lie on top of won't deform accurately from the simulated weight, etc...
Feature requests never account for the performance hit.
my thoughts. system has to be made for costuming from the get go and you bring in a wierd new character race and everything breaks for them.
or you’re asking me to implement an accessory-anchor system all for the sake of a scarf
It... shouldn't be that difficult?
It's literally adding another piece of gear, like gloves, breastplate, helmet, etc. Now just repeat the process for a scarf.
A character model is made up of "slots". The head slot, the chest slot, the legs slot and so on. When you equip a piece of gear, it replaced the body mesh in that slot. So a helmet model replaces the head, a cuirass replaces the chest, I think you follow. If you want a piece of gear to only partially cover the character, you need to create a new slot. But gear is easy to implement, since it conforms to the character's "body" and uses the same animations.
Now add a scarf. First, you need to create a new slot, so that equipping the scarf doesn't replace the head or chest. And then comes the question of animations. Are you going to have the scarf just lay flat against the character? That's the easiest approach, but it'll be completely static, look like ass and probably clip through at least some of your armors. You could use a cloth sim. If your scarf mesh has enough polygons, it'll look the best. But it's also computationally expensive, especially if you go with mesh-based collisions for maximum eye candy. And what types of objects can the scarf collide with? Just the character, or world objects as well? Every object the scarf collides with will create a whole new slew of physics calculations, all the time, dropping your performance in the gutter like a mob snitch. Or you could create a bespoke rig for the scarf. It'll look better than a static object and won't have a notable performance hit, but won't look as good as the cloth sim, especially since it won't collide properly with whatever else your character is wearing. And you'd need to create matching animations for literally every animation the character can possibly do. Every. Single. One. Your animators would want to murder you. And they will, when you come back to them a little later and say "Okay, real impressed with the scarf, now let's make 5 different ones. And I want capes."
TL;DR: It's not just another piece of gear.
Player: Can you make it so that a 3 inch drop won't kill me?
DayZ Standalone dev: .........
Oof, this reminds me of a personal experience.
Me: Oh this grapple system is easy, we'll just push the player's vector towards the destination vector.
Game: Oh but there's a small object in the way that cannot be moved. This will make an immense amount of collision data per tick.
Me: Can't we just ignore-
Game:
You're the one who asked to open a gate to the fifth dimension, you can't then get upset that you broke 3+1 dimensional physics
Game director : we’re gonna add interact-able doors with proper door opening animations for the characters
The game designers:
The programmers and artists:
The producers:
Now we need to decide in the case of collisions if:
The frustratingly comedic unintended results of any choice makes for great organic marketing though.
Gamedev is magical.
Aside: Know what did this really well though? Resident Evil games after RE:4.
The ability to "slowly quietly open", and then at any time decide to violently action-hero kick it open to send a zombie on the other side flying, was genius.
FROM Software: Fuck that, we're doing fog-walls.
Granted. All door animations are now forced cutscenes.
Okay, okay. No doors but stairs instead
Legend of Zelda did it well.
Honestly, I think a major issue with doors is that they just slow down gameplay.
It's like coming across a ladder only every building has one.
Almost all game-slowing doors are just hidden loading screen baked into the gameplay.
Always have to remind myself of this when managers ask me if something could be done. If it's easy, I naturally get a little annoyed that they're even asking. But knowing that is my job, not theirs, and it's good that they ask. There's lots of places where they assume and things go badly.
It’s always nice of them to ask
It’s not natural lol
Remember the phrase "it's not in-pattern". Another one is "it's possible, but expensive"
Way back in the 90s I did a contract job at MS Research on a project called "V-Worlds" - a world simulator similar to the Doom or Quake engine, but it was browser-based and everything was a script, so changing how the world worked didn't mean you had to restart a server, just change the scripts and new stuff would appear right in front of you.
Anyway the concept of adding accessories to the player's avatar and even having a pet follow you around came up, and I remember there was an involved discussion of how difficult/impossible that would be. The player's avatar was a special object class that represented a user, and didn't have the same capabilities as ordinary objects in the world. I remember asking, "Why isn't the avatar just a world object the player happens to control? Then you could do all kinds of cool stuff like let the player transform into something else just by switching objects, or let another player run your character." Dead silence. I was just a contractor, what did I know?
This feels like the kinda project that should have a 1hr YouTube indie doc about it
I wouldn't mind seeing that! After V-Worlds was declared "completed" MSR tried to find a product group to fold it into, but nobody wanted to own it. I don't remember if XBox existed then, but the code just sat there for a few years, then I heard they opensourced it. When my kids were playing ToonTown I found a bug that let you slide behind the background and move around, like you could see that a clerk behind a counter was just a legless floating torso. The method of getting there seemed to be exactly like a V-Worlds bug, so I wondered if Disney might have been using the code. But it could have just been a common graphics bug, I dunno.
I remember finding another bug while creating a demo with a snaky sea creature swimming around. To animate a multi-segmented object you had to animate each segment separately. After the animation ran for a minute or two, enough unrelated interrupts would happen in the computer that would throw the body parts out of sync, making body parts either merge into each other or move apart, and the whole thing would look like crap. Same thing if you had somebody ride in a car or on a train - the car and character were animated separately and you'd end up with the character floating along behind the car.
I asked the dev about making the animation itself an abstract object whose position would be moved around, and attaching in-world objects to it, with position offsets. Each animation step would be computed just once instead of for each body part (or for the person and the car), and all the parts would be rendered with offsets from that one position, guaranteeing them to stay in sync visually. He said yeah that's a good idea, but we're not working on that code anymore. Oh well.
Another bug involved moving from room to room. The engine only loaded graphics for the current room, so when you went through a doorway it would load the new room and dump the previous one, causing a very unnatural visual delay that looked like a glitch in the matrix. The way we coped with this was by putting an entire world in a single room, so all the world's graphics were loaded all at once. But this not only limited the world size, it meant we had to create our own version of the room system in script. To keep track of where players and objects were, we put invisible barriers in doorways and used event handlers when things passed through them. Then we used this to enforce which players could talk to each other or hear sounds made in a given "room".
I suggested loading a cluster of rooms at once - the current one and those that were one connection away. Then when an avatar passed into a doorway the new room's graphics would already be there, no glitch, and the graphics for nearby rooms could be loaded and unloaded in the background. Again, nice idea but we're done working on that code. Sigh. I really wish I had joined that project about 6 months sooner. Not like I'm a genius or anything but these seemed like really fundamental things that should have been addressed up front.
Okay, rant over. I haven't thought about this stuff in quite a while - I'm kind of amazed so many details are still in my head. I must have agonized over it a lot at the time lol.
I just want a game that lets my avatar be left handed.
As a gameplay programmer, I got anxiety from reading this (and I think the animators are already in a fetal position on the floor)
minecraft allows left-handedness ever since they added the off-hand mechanic
I think before that even
Counterstrike did that over 25 years ago. Yikes I'm old
They just mirror the viewmodel
Hahah
No.
Counter strike
Alt text: In the 60s, Marvin Minsky assigned a couple of undergrads to spend the summer programming a computer to use a camera to identify objects in a scene. He figured they'd have the problem solved by the end of the summer. Half a century later, we're still working on it.
Edit: seems I'm the third person to comment this! :')
I love how this is actually an example of progress. These days, ML can be used for this kinda thing and it's not too bad at it even.
https://code.flickr.net/2014/10/20/introducing-flickr-park-or-bird/
This page about it still exists, but I guess the identification site died with Flickr.
I worked at a company that made IoT stuff (which is an increasingly archaic term). The web team was pitching using a third party tool called ThingSpace to view and manage the things. The web dev said ThingSpace could do all these amazing things automatically. The manager said “can we change the color of the background?” The web dev said “…. no.”
There’s already a codebase for bursting from the ground in an explosion of lava. Everyone wants that.
You’re the first person asking for a scarf, and our system doesn’t even know what a neck is.
Time for the old NPC-with-a-train-for-a-hat trick.
Player? Easy. Scarf? Easy. Wearing a scarf? That depends on a lot of factors such as which part of the body, how the models were made and rigged, etc.
And if it like blows in the wind that's a whole jigglebone system and wind simulation that's a lot of stuff going on
I want dresses, and I don't care if they clip through literally everything!
My bg3 character is female. She was in slacks until act 3 where she could finally have a dress
We looted everything. I feel like there are two dresses in the game: the robe Gale wears and a white dress you find in a Balders Gate house near the end of the game
Shadows in the real world a lack of energy Shadows in games imma need it all boss
The scarf in Shinobi was such a revelation when it came out
Wow I had no idea that Shinobi was a series! When the original one came out in like 86 or so, I was obsessed with it. I still say “ninja magic!” to this day.
The logical answer is that too many Computer Science majors loved Silver Age comic books.
The Martian Manhunter was stronger than superman, but couldn't handle fire. Green Lantern was similarly godlike, but was unable to control anything colored yellow.
"I noticed the elves in level 3 look too similar to the dwarves in level 5."
"It's too late to change it now!"
Only in 3D. In 2D, you slap some pixels on top and there's your scarf:
I tend to find it's the other way around. Once you've got a scarf modelled and rigged, it'll work* for all animations, but for animated 2D sprites you have a lot more things to do.
May have visual artifacts like clipping
and add a couple of frames to the sprite sheet in order to animate the scarf if that's required.
There is only one rule. It's much easier to add new things than to change existing things
what if you wanted a scarf, but god said
Traceback (most recent call last): File "you.py", line 1, in <module> scarf() NameError: name 'scarf' is not defined
God being Python
Yahweh would use light mode 🙄
And don't even get them started on doors.
Well, does the giant demon also have to be able to equip the scarf?
Sure. Player character? No.
That's cute 😅
Tbf, you can make the characters wear anything, but it won't look good. Lol
Welcome to second life