*Cars don't create congestion"

- See, the problem is that you only have two lanes in the city /s
  
  one_more_lane.copypasta
  
  In the end the city will have to bulldoze the houses and offices that make up to the city to make room for more roads and cars, increasing costs and destroying their own tax revenue in the process, or realize less cars are the answer.
  
  Long story: short the city will eventually have to decide whether to put one last parking space or one last lane.
  
  Man, I'm flashing back to my visit to Detroit and the massive 'boulevard' that cuts the city in two. The car I was riding in had to get on to what was basically a highway, change lanes a half dozen times, and exit via ramp in order to get from one neighborhood to another. (In the span of a quarter mile).
  It was eerie, but doable, because there weren't many other cars on the road. I can only imagine how difficult it would have been when there was actually traffic.
  Roads can be walls as well as nooses.
- Do you have the key for the car colour coding? Is it occupancy?
  
  It probably just attempts to indicate it's the same 3 cars again, likely pointing out the fact that there are legitimate reasons to drive, those people are just fucked by everyone else and brain-dead traffic planning.
  
  ~~It looks like the green cars have passengers, while the red cars have single occupants.~~
  Nevermind, some of the red cars have passengers, too. I guess the green cars survive to the final graphic… why that’s relevant, I don’t really understand.
  
  I think it’s more for design language, you’re subconsciously drawn to the green vehicles because they’re different, and subconsciously when you’re looking at the traffic, you’re reminded what it’s like being in the traffic yourself.
  So you imagine yourself as the green car.
  1st scenario: traffic is really bad. 2nd scenario: they’ve added more lanes, but you, the green car, are still stuck. 3rd scenario: public transportation has alleviated the traffic and it’s better for all.
  Notice in the 3rd scenario, all the transportation is green. I think it’s to make you think, “I can ride my bike to work” or “I can take the bus” or “I can still drive my car if where I live requires me to” depending on your own situation. It’s to show all options can be viable, if you support public transportation.
  That’s how I see it at least.
  
  I was thinking it's electric?
  
  I assumed that Green = Moving. The pedestrians in the city are green, as are the busses and bikes in the bottom diagram. The greens in the top two are there to show just how few vehicles can actually move at any given time.
- A bike lane on a highway seems like a terrible idea.
  
  Denmark checking in. A lot of our highways have separate parallel bicycle highways. It's really great! They have exits in the same spots as cars do and have big sound barriers.x
  
  anywhere that you might say "we shouldn't have a bike lane here, it's too dangerous for cyclists" is a place where there should be a bike lane.
  
  Spending billions of dollars connecting two cities and not spending a couple percent more for parallel active transportation infrastructure also seems like a terrible idea.
  
  If you only have a hammer ...
  
  Well it’s a good thing no one is proposing that! Seriously, where do you people come from?
  
  You're looking at what is obviously a conceptual diagram and acting as if it's some kind of literal blueprint. IMO it's something closer to a Sankey diagram showing the overall flow and moda share of traffic into the city than a plan sketch of an individual road. I don't think it's even reasonable to conclude that it's actually suggesting using the same alignment for cars, bikes, and pedestrians at all, let alone strawmanning it as "a bike lane on a highway."
  Frankly, I'm found it to be a tough call deciding whether you genuinely didn't understand that or if you were commenting in bad faith (which violates rule 1), and the only thing that made me give you the benefit of the doubt was your later comment talking about the cement barrier (i.e. a somewhat constructive comment about how to make it better) instead of continuing to flatly reject it.

oh no they called me a communist however shall i cope
- When it gets to the stage that you get called a communist, you know you have won the argument.
  
  As if the GOP even hold back anything after the first round
- usually when I get called a communist, it's when I'm explaining that people deserve basic human rights.
- When someone calls you a communist you know that you won the argument.
  
  Absolutely something a Sith would say.

If you're stuck in traffic, you ARE the traffic.
- "Hi boss, I'll be a bit late into work. I am traffic."
  
  "Hi boss, I'll be a bit late into work. I'm stuck in me."
- “I’m the main character and everyone else is the NPC traffic!”

It's crazy how our 18-lane highway, with none of the stuff mentioned, is gridlocked all the time. 🤔
Maybe one more lane, bro!
- It's the stoplight's fault! Ban stop signs, traffic lights and remove speed limits and we'll never have gridlock again!!!
  
  I'm unironically all for removing stop signs, traffic lights, and speed limits. If you build streets and roads properly, you don't need those, frequently ignored, control devices.
  It would remove gridlock, but not necessarily congestion.
  
  Ok with that, but you also need to remove other cars from the road. Every time I've been stuck in traffic, it was because there were so many other cars. This has got out of control! Who are all these people and where are they all going?!?
  
  All these bums without cars trying to cross the road made me late! Do they really need a crossing every five blocks? /S
- There was a guy who took his guitar before the Portland City Council and sang a song about induced demand. If you build more lanes, more drivers will come and fill them.
  https://youtu.be/ujvG6vbpSPc
  
  OMG, I love this man! That video is 7 years old... Did they add more lanes? 🫣

I'm stuck on this rock with people like that. The worst part is they speak with such confidence and authority that their opinions will carry more weight than mine in the real world.
I despair.
- yes but i will upvote you :3
- Their entitlement truly knows no bounds.
- Oh how naive I was when I used to think that spread of the internet would mean spread of intelligence. Who knew that the dumb-and-the-loud would have an easier time than the smart folks when spreading information.
- To fight despair, organize. Find and join your local advocacy groups for transit, cycling, etc. Many improvements that happen are the result of fierce advocacy behind the scenes.
  Or at the very least, participate in a critical mass in your city from time to time.

Congestion is literally made out of cars. Without cars, there would be no congestion.
- You know what would REALLY fix congestions?
  MORE CARS!!
  
  Just one more lane bro. Just one more.
  
  What's the solution after EVERY. SCHOOL. SHOOTING?
  Moar guns.
- This could not possibly be said any better, I think.

Communism is when bike
- tell me more 💕
  
  The people sieze the means of commuting, and install bike lanes and public transport.

It amazes me that this country literally has state borders built around rail systems, a huge dependence on rail for shipping, but decided to just pave over trolley rails, and jack prices of train transit to thousands of dollars for just a few hundred miles. Then the government forces us to pay shittons of money into our vehicles in taxes, insurance, etc without regulating the private companies that we're forced to pay. Meanwhile other countries have super fast trains to travel, subsidized with tax money, and travel seems to be more efficient.
- travel seems to be more efficient.
  And they just ignore the negative health outcomes here vs countries where cars are not the norm.
- That’s the American system working as designed.
  Provide no public benefit for your taxes while forcing the populace to funnel money into predatory private businesses. This ensures the powerful can rob the population with impunity and without pesky competition while making the populace distrustful of public programs that might benefit them and deprive those wealthy, powerful robber-barons of their golden eggs.

Communism is when you don't like cars. Apparently.
- I wish they'd follow that mental thread backward, and question why they have a kneejerk response to call anything that's about caring for other people communist, and then why they think that's a bad thing.
  
  That's the thing. They don't really do the whole "thinking" thing. Their argument is based entirely around emotion, parroting words they've heard before which correspond with the emotion they are feeling rather than actual meaning. If you tried to engage this person in a meaningful dialogue, they would likely dodge your questions, or start engaging in ad homenim attacks, or start talking in circles.
- According to him, communism is when the state 💀
  
  This must be a bot.
- Socialism is when you want speed limits

My car doesn't create congestion. It's everyone else's that's the problem.
- Like people driving during the pandemic and talking how amazing it felt to drive

"Cars don't create congestion; People in cars create congestion!"
- Can't wait for self-driving cars so the capitalists can flood the road with passengerless self-driving taxis
  
  I thought single occupancy cars were the worst for congestion. Now imagine being stuck behind 5+ empty driverless cars in a traffic jam.
  I think I'll keep asking for some adequate public transport.
- Particularly single occupants
  
  I think the comment was meant to resemble the popular "guns don't cause death, murderers cause death" comment
- Solution: Self-driving cars with no one inside.

You're right. They don't create congestion.
They ARE congestion.
- This, exactly.
  You're not sitting in traffic .... You are traffic .
  The guy in the OP also gives off small dick energy. Just saying.
- Is water wet?

As a cyclist I've noticed a, harshness, recently. In Ontario our premier did a distraction campaign where he villanised bike lanes. Turns out he was talking about a couple of specific ones but all of the sudden, after biking in town for years. People nearly hit me. There is no Lee way any more. I've been swiped by mirrors and pickup trucks try to roll coal on me (pretty sure you little dicks need a diesel and your just fucking up your engines for nothing) because I like a bike ride on a sunny day. Or want to stay in shape. Or need to get to work. It really does feel like "get a haircut and drive an f150!!!" around here and that wasn't always the case.
- Not Just Bikes made a video on that. https://youtu.be/KgFCQ7jEZxI
- Strap a visible gun on yourself or a bag. That'll get you some extra space. Saw an article or post about someone who did that and it's like magic.
  
  Why is the American reaction to every single issue "just get a gun"???
  
  Canada does not allow open carry, and handguns have heavy restrictions on use and transportation
  
  I'm Ontario that isn't legal.
  
  Without a gun, a brick would be a fine stand in

Fun fact: The faster a car travels, the bigger the spacing between the cars gets. That's necessary to leave enough distance for emergency stops.
While the speed increases linearly, the spacing increases with the square, meaning at double the speed, the spacing quadruples, which in turn means that throughput (number of cars per hour) halves.
This is the reason why many regions use electronic speed signs to drop the speedlimit lower when there's congestion. Because it increases throughput and thus reduces travel times.
The optimum speed for high throughput is 30km/h.
Counterintuitive as it might be, drivers should be all for 30km/h speed limit in cities, because it would make them get to work faster.
- That's also the fastest speed before sharply increasing the likelihood of fatality in pedestrian collisions
- You can cite an infinite amount of proven facts and studies, car brains will never accept your „communist propaganda“. This whole discussion is too emotionally loaded to be based on facts.
- Another related fun fact: Larger vehicles are harder to see around, so people have to leave even more distance which reduces throughput.
- The problem is that often streets are not congested, and then 50km/h is much more time efficient.
  
  Yep, and at that speed, 50km/h on an "empty" street INSIDE a city, that's also the most "efficient" speed to avoid those pesky children bits getting stuck on your windchill were you to tackle one while checking your phone.
  Apologies for the sarcasm but most drivers I encounter on a daily basis absolutely do not have the sustained concentration behind wheels to safely drive a 50km/h within actual cities.
  
  And there’s where we invent roundabouts. Even when the streets are not congested the time to cross any urban area is dominated by the stops. It much more beneficial to eliminate stop signs and red lights, to keep you moving consistently than to let you speed a little more to your next stopping point

A MAGA-before-there-was-MAGA family member of mine actually used to say "If we didn't have these big slow buses on the streets, and commuter trains blocking the rail crossings, we wouldn't have a traffic problem."

Higher speeds do the opposite for congestion than what you'd think. If everyone and their mum wants to drive on the same stretch of highway at 5pm sharp, there's not enough space - at speed.
Obviously, everyone fits when standing still. The amount of asphalt is immense.
Reducing the speed limit from 120kph to 80 will allow 50% more cars to fit on the same stretch of road, thereby reducing stop and go, and not really impacting your average speed; you'd be stopping and going during rush hour, anyway. But now traffic flows, which is safer and easier to follow.
Why? Because - let's assume safe driving - every car has two seconds of safety distance to the car in front. Those two seconds remain two seconds, but that means the distances you need are twice as large with 120kph than with 60kph. Your car length doesn't even really matter, two seconds at 120kph are ~67m. So the road will always transport 1 car every two seconds per lane, no matter the speed.
You can either rage in a congestion, not knowing if farther up someone has caused a crash and completely blocked everything, or drive slower but steadily. The throughput of the road is the same.
- let’s assume safe driving
  That's your problem, caring about safety of others smh
- Some Houston traffic napkin math confirms this

"Please bro one more line on the highway bro please just one more lane"
- See not congested at all.
  
  There's quite some room in between the lanes. If they all move in a bit, I bet there's plenty of room for an extra bike lane on either side.
- this line makes me think of ai:
  bro just a few more power plants, gimme a nuclear one and some coal fired, please bro, it'll all be worth it with just a few more gigawatts. It'll make sense then, just a few more plants broooo

The Soviet Union is long gone. Communist should no longer be a derisive and should sound like a 20th century cliché in 2025.
I wonder (can't confirm) if the evergreen state of communist or socialist as derision is due to the far right propaganda industrial complex still pushing (hard) that anything that isn't capitalism is a moral wrong.
- you expect people that are emotionally stuck in the 1950s to recognize the USSR is gone?
- Any time I see or hear someone using "communist" as an insult, I immediately assume they're a right-winger using the word to mean "something I'm afraid of."
  My fundie-Christian family members use it as a synonym for "atheist" because that's what they're afraid of.
- Also there's plenty of completely car-brained infrastructure in Eastern Europe, built by communist regimes. Budapest is absolutely atrocious.

What it wrong with that guy? Did a bike fuck his wife or something?

It's one of those "guns don't kill people", but with cars. These people deserve to be run over by a licensed rifle
- Or shot with a car.
- Guns would be an effective solution to congestion.
  
  Florida made it legal to open fire while driving in a fit of road rage. Just say "I felt threatened" and you're good to start spraying.

Bikes are not usually allowed on the highway, yet the highway experiences congestion. How is that?
- I once had the pleasure of cycling the Shimanami Kaido in Japan, a bike route that connects the islands of Honshu and Shikoku, hopping between all these minor islands on the way over suspension bridges carrying the main highway.
  The bike lane is protected the whole time. In one case, the bike route is actually below the deck of the bridge, and you're on a fenced-in catwalk hundreds of feet over the channel between the islands. Views for miles over Osaka bay.
  Honestly, when I look back at my life, it's probably my favorite thing I've ever done. If only the U.S. invested in bike infrastructure like that.
  
  Current plan for the new cape cod bridges include a protected bike lane with a great view over the canal!
  Too many people complain we could fit an extra lane in that space without thinking. Sure there are huge backups, but those are addressed with the new design not making cars slow down and not having entrance and exit ramps right there. Most importantly, you’re crossing to a two lane highway so there is no benefit to more than two lanes. Allowing continuous flow to the amount that the other side can handle reduces congestion. Anyone you can get on a bike is the one that will reduce congestion. And for all that is holy, let’s run the Cape Flyer often enough to be useful
- What... next thing you know you'll ask people to use reason. /s
- Because of the bike lanes in the other streets of course.

Reminds me of a quote "Every single drop of water felt it could not be to blame for causing the tidal wave/flood" Me remembering it is a little rough, but the concept stays the same lol.
- Rain doesn't "create' flood. Removing infrastructure from cars, creating parks, using solar panels and gay marriage MANUFACTURE floods. I don't know how you are trying to talk to, Communist.
  
  THIS communist manufactures floods on a daily basis.
  : Waits for applause, but upon hearing silence solemnly picks up his tenth of potato and leaves:

"Road rage doesn't exist!" - Road raging driver

Yeah, it's all those cyclists that you're stuck in traffic with when there's a traffic jam.
- Yeah, what you don't see in all those pictures of gridlocked Los Angeles is the huge mass of bike races clogging the entire freeway just out of frame.
  It's a really embarrassing problem for the city, having a bunch of folks with jacked quads lookin' like highlighters jamming their freeways and stroads.
  Otherwise everyone could really hit the gas and go maybe 30 mph without a major collision incident!
  (The internet is crazy so I must clarify this is intended to be delivered as satire.)
  
  What is this 'satire' thing you talk about?? I'll bet it's just another word for CUMMUNISM!!

Well he's right. Cars don't create congestion, in the same way that raindrops don't create floods. Cars ARE congestion.

It's true, before we started creating cycling facilities there was no such thing as congestion or pollution /s

Hope someone show him the gif of cars being congested in a circular road with no obstruction.
- There are so many images of gridlocked roads full of cars I hope all the replies are no repeated ones
  
  That looks like a nightmare. Like that photo from America with all the gas stations, McDonald's and stuff.
  Horrible American Urban Hell.
  
  The problem is that the highway is only 4-lane wide in each direction. If it were 400-lane wide there wouldn't be any congestion.
  /s shouldn't be necessary but it is the Internet
  
  Needs one more lane bro. Just one more lane, please
  
  Look at all those mostly/stopped cars I can breeze by on my bike...
  I can smell this picture.

Isaiah is kinda stupid, isn't he?
- Kinda? More like extremely and painfully
- Do you know SpongeBob? And the character Patrick Star? Isaiah is the stone Patrick lives under.

Ignorance combined with arrogance is a terrible cocktail

You're not fooling anyone, Communist.
Congrats on winning the argument, anyone who gets told this. If their entire argument is "you're a commu-social-marxist" then they have no argument and they're delusionally living in the McCarthy age.
Who the fuck do you think you're talking to like this?
LMAO am I supposed to know who this guy is? Because this sounds like an "I'm so important you should have more respect and by respect I mean do what I say" but it could be a "you aren't fooling anyone" I suppose.

Gee, I wonder what causes congestion in high speed lanes and roads? Too many fucking cars at the same time? Nah, it must be some communist subversion
- It's wild deer, there might not actually be any but just the idea of them makes people drive in a less efficient manner. It doesn't help that the deer are communist.

I'd say he's right. In a way. Cars don't create congestion, they are congestion.
Fine. And with this realisation let's end the phrase "I'm stuck in traffic". Cars aren't stuck in traffic, they are traffic.
Every bike on the road is one less car.
Other than that this guy seriously needs to get out into the fresh air and spend sometime around people (if it is a guy, it's overwhelmingly most likely a bot and so a genuinely harmful thing to engage with, get angry about, republish here, or do anything with other than ignore).
Social media is just getting worse, and although there is much to like about defederation, a lot of the content here is not healthy.
- let’s end the phrase “I’m stuck in traffic”.
  I'm contributing to traffic? I'm doing my part joining the traffic?
  So many tempting options highlighting our individual responsibility to the collective problem... yet none of them actually used. Ever. I wonder why. Surely it's because of "others"!
  
  I like "I'm traffic." Succinct, to the point.

"Communist"
I'm 14 and this is deep.

Water falling from clouds doesn’t mean it’s raining.

Who cars what science says, I love my penis-size-compensating huge truck, so I want more and faster lanes!
Well, mr dumbfuck, why don't you go to North Korea, they have 5 lane highways and only 3 cars a day driving them. Oh wait, true communists have no traffic jams? What?

Being independent and getting to use your bike is communist now

Most intelligent conservative
- His profile also:
  Says he's anti-statist, but thinks America should always come first
  Says he's against communism and socialism except he just calls anyone a communist or socialist if they don't agree with him
  Uses the R slur
  Is anti-muslim
  Is anti-gay
  Showed a photo of a bike lane as proof it was preventing car traffic (it was a raised, isolated bike lane not on a road)
  Showed a photo of a no-car, walking only street with 50+ people actively filling it up as an example of why they need to close down those areas and open them up for cars instead
  Thinks that there are tons of "woke" people on the right
  Responded to someone talking about the very common sense argument that one bike = one less car on the road by claiming their 27 followers were botted 💀
  Compared Manhattan to Panem from the Hunger Games
  Thinks bicyclists wearing helmets "protects drivers"
  Thinks communism is run by the state
  Spelled "I" as "EYE"
  Complains about "15 minute cities" being controlled by the government as a way to advocate for government-funded interstates
  Compared the integration of black culture to being as obnoxious as a man loudly playing bagpipes on the subway
  He's made a few hundred tweets & quote tweets in the past 2 days.
  This man is unhinged 😭
  
  Most intelligent conservative

maybe this person is a car in disguise
- The first three letters of this first and last name spell Isa Car. Is a car.

Carbrain is a disease

Fix and expand the US public transportation system. Building infrastructure for automobiles is fucking backwards.

I drive. The biggest causes of congestion I see are…
Dumb driving because Americans aren’t taught to zipper merge and can be dangerously unpredictable due to do widespread emotional instability.
Bad car design. The customer isn’t always right, regular folks should not be driving tanks and should not have AI superseded user control. People die here all the time because of these things. Cybertruck is the most obvious example given its lack of bumper zones and tech that’s so cheap it kills it’s own users but the most common example is probably a Ford or GM pickup truck. I think the Japanese may have the best cars as I saw a compact van that seemed far more practical and safe than many American vehicles. China has some good looking ones too. Compact doesn’t look as sexy but is way better for everyone.
Bad road design. I have no problems with bike lanes or even less lanes if travel time is roughly the same. I love roundabouts and sidewalks full of trees to shade pedestrians and wide enough to protect them from cars. I love when corners give me good visibility going around corners. In the US this is rarely the case. We are plagued by construction contractors milking cities to do projects slowly and create problems the people will want them to fix in the future and lack of regulation to ensure all modes of transport are viable in all but a few cities.
- I think it’s established fact that you can’t reduce congestions by adding more lanes and roads. Not because of bad road design but because the amount of cars will fill up those new lanes. So saying ‘cars cause congestions’ is pointing at the fact that regardless of how many roads or lanes we have the will be filled. Hence roads aren’t the problem, but cars are.
  
  I think it’s established fact that you can’t reduce congestions by adding more lanes and roads.
  I mean, if it worked we would see the successes in all those giant freeway cities but instead the problem just grows.
  
  I think more lanes can be a solution but it has a more particular place than does now and there seems to be diminishing returns after about three lanes.
  
  If we just turn everything into road then nobody will have anywhere to go. It's the perfect solution
  
  Another reason it doesn't reduce congestion is that lane changes are frequently the cause of accidents or hard braking, which creates traffic jams. And Americans' complete lack of lane discipline just makes it all worse.
  
  Actually, inadequate lanes do contribute to congestion. The traffic will always be pretty much standard... the time of transit however is slowed so it may seem like there are less cars... but no, it is less road. Also, the curvature of the roads -- especially on on ramps can affect visibility of oncoming traffic and not providing for a properly lengthed merge lane is also a big problem. Some things that can help slow down (prevent speeding at merging areas/onramps) so it is easier to merge is having islands between the right and left lanes with greenery, more lights/slowdowns and providing a fast lane for carshares and buses. Building in service roads and bypasses also decreases the congestion.
  
  pretty sure that mostly applies to mega cities that shouldn't have multi-lane roads to begin with

TIL that the US before Ford was communist.

Cars create congestion, so they build more roads, so things are further away, so the can sell more cars (and gas), so they can get more tax revenue, but more cars on the road creates more congestion, so they build more roads ....

"No one in New York drove. There was too much traffic." -Phillip J. Fry

This dude is a fat fuck. Ofcourse he gets mad when people suggest they should ride a bike or walk

This is the same logic that says the only answer to gun violence is more guns

"Ants don't create ant colonies."

- I dunno, there are lots of dumb people too.
  
  I looked him up, you're right, this guy is just a really weird black Republican. Just about all of his tweets are inflammatory like this.

Cars don’t create congestion just like guns don’t kill people. Well, that line of thinking would probably go over his head too.

communism is when bike lanes.

running into luminaries like these online feels like stepping into dog poop :/ and the streets are plenty afoul these days.

this Chud is like proven to be wrong by math and science so we could just tell him that facts don't care about his feelings

Isaiah is not a smart man.

Shit, look at LA.

I'm confused, does he also get mad at fractions because they don't reduce the way he wants them to?