1y ago

Hawaii cannot ban guns on beaches, US judge rules

www.reuters.com Hawaii cannot ban guns on beaches, US judge rules

A federal judge has blocked the state of Hawaii from enforcing a recently enacted ban on firearms on its prized beaches and in other areas including banks, bars and parks, citing last year's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling expanding gun rights.

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Apart from the "why do you need it" question, the beach is specifically a place people often leave items that can't be taken in the water unattended. Sure, legislators can write laws about how a gun must not be left unattended and gun nuts can swear up and down about how they would never do that, but they will. No matter how much you think "there's a lot of people around" or "I'll just be in and out" or "I'll watch my stuff from the water", thefts happen, and now a mundane occurrence has turned a supposedly (not really) "safe" and "legal" gun into one of those dangerous "illegal" guns they can't be held responsible for.
We were perfectly happy with our gun laws, and they worked, and now fringe nutcases and a politically captured courts are telling us we can't implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they're not constantly armed.
- the nuts have a panic attack if they're not constantly armed.
  That's the real issue, here. These guys are absolutely fucking terrified 100% of the time. They pack heat in order to feel like something besides a helpless babyman.
  I have never even once felt like I couldn't possibly pick up a head of lettuce and some yogurt from the supermarket without some moral support from a gun. It's just fucking bizarre.
  
  Why do you assume they are absolutely fucking terrified vs thinking better safe than sorry?
  I know the risk of a violent encounter is low, but I carry because it's the only reliable way to not be at a disadvantage in a fight.
  Having a plan to avoid being assaulted isn't the same as living in terror.
  Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there's a good chance you don't understand something important.
  
  Why do you assume they are absolutely fucking terrified vs thinking better safe than sorry?
  Because they are too afraid to go to a grocery store without a gun. That means they're really, really bad at risk assessment. And that makes them dangers to themselves and others.
  I know the risk of a violent encounter is low, but I carry because it's the only reliable way to not be at a disadvantage in a fight.
  Do you? Do you actually know that? Because your odds of being a shooting victim are way, way higher as a handgun owner than as a grocery shopper. You're more likely to be hit by lightning than to be in a violent confrontation at the supermarket, and yet you don't go around in a rubber suit to be "better safe than sorry."
  Having a plan to avoid being assaulted isn't the same as living in terror.
  And yet you're not wearing a rubber suit. Your risk aversion needs calibration if the gun that objectively makes you less safe makes you feel more safe.
  Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there's a good chance you don't understand something important.
  Or they could be members of the Westboro Baptist Church, and they are totally ridiculous.
  For the record, I don't think all gun owners are ridiculous - certainly not to the level of the WBC. I don't even think people who feel the need to pack heat while going out for milk are ridiculous. But they're definitely scared, and bad at assessing risks.
  
  Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there’s a good chance you don’t understand something important.
  Yeah seriously what a ridiculous attempt at the "both sides" defense. Has this guy never heard of scientology, flat earthers, 911 truthers, and all the other various cults and such? There is very much such a thing as morons in large groups.
  
  The other day I was at the grocery store and someone shouldered me and my cart out of the way when I was comparing cantaloupes. He looked at me funny like he was gonna start some shit so I blew him away. Motherfuckers not going to take me out without a fight. #alphamale #iamverybadass
  
  There are a large number of people who carry, they're not who you think they are and they're not afraid or paranoid. Just like you put on your seatbelt and have a smoke detector and fire extinguisher in your home...they carry and think nothing of it.
  The amount of white privilege shit shows how much propaganda you lot drink.
  
  Ouch. Guess I touched a nerve. Look, carry if it makes you feel better, but statistically, you're in more danger from your own guns than you are from anyone else. The same cannot be said for seat-belts, smoke detectors, and fire extinguishers.
  
  Damn Lemmy doesn't alert on posts replies properly. So replying late to this one.
  That is completely false. You're more likely to never use the firearm than be in danger of it. That myth was created by the anti-gun groups using suicides as their stats.
  
  In Canada almost nobody carries a gun.
  We also rarely have shootings.
  
  That is how it works in all civilised countries.
  
  Same in the UK, we had a couple of school shootings and then collectively decided children's safety isn't worth trading for the freedom to own guns and that was that. There was very little pushback from any side of the asile.
  
  You also have safety nets, which helps with your crime level. There is a lot more we here in the states could do to curb our violence overall that doesn't require new gun laws, but a loud majority are idiots who just call everything that involves safety nets and reforming criminals socialism/communism.
  
  No, it’s really nothing to do with safety nets and Canadians don’t have any better mental health then Americans.
  We don’t open carry and we have strict handgun laws so we don’t have the amount of shootings as the states.
  That’s it, that’s all.
  
  There are a large number of people who carry, they’re not who you think they are and they’re not afraid or paranoid.
  The fact that they do "carry" unequivocally shows that they are indeed afraid and paranoid, no matter how many times they say "not afraid, bro" out loud. Believe their actions, not their lying words.
  
  I'm genuinely curious what you mean by your white privilege comment. Can you explain? What's the relation?
  
  You and the rest of the anti-gun tools here think that only white people carry. You live in bubbles with no outside experience of what other races have to deal with on a daily basis. It's actually quite hilarious how disconnected from reality a lot of you are.
  
  Such constructive interracial dialogue. Makes me warm and fuzzy. Thank you, my cherished non-white person.
  
  How many times have you used your gun to resolve a situation that couldn't have been solved without one? I legitimately don't understand the mindset. What situation are people like you "preparing" for? Cause it honestly just seems like you're afraid.
  
  The same amount of times I've had to use my fire extinguisher in my home. Zero. And I hope that number stays that way forever.
  
  My dad said the same thing. He carried a 357 on him. A man, he wasn't scared.. Well, that's what he said, but in the end he was a racist baby that was afraid a poc was going to car jack him in his fucking chevy equinox. I don't need a gun to defend myself, it's getting there though with cult45, that's a scary bunch of halfwits.
  
  I feel sorry for these people you describe, I can't imagine living in such constant fear that I need to carry around a lethal weapon.
  
  OP’s take makes me wonder: am I a badass for walking around completely unarmed and also not afraid?
  
  This dude is back with dumb takes.
  
  I'm not sure which is worse, someone who intentionally straps a deadly weapon to themselves in full view to be paraded around in public as a show of machismo, or someone who does so thoughtlessly as one would buckle a seatbelt.
- we can't implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they're not constantly armed.
  Do you honestly think that panic attacks by gun carriers is the blocker to reasonable gun laws? The number of people that carry firearms regularly is not statistically significant, let alone those with panic attacks.
  I carry a concealed firearm because I think it's important for at risk groups to be able to defend themselves. I don't panic when I don't carry, but I recognize that I'm less prepared to defend myself from assault.
  It's important to understand those you disagree with.
  
  I can't think of any at-risk group that has meaningful influence on gun legislation, but many of the groups propping up the Republican party have been convinced they are in mortal danger.
  Though, frankly, I do find someone who thinks restrictions to carrying a gun at a beach in peaceful and multicultural Hawaii aren't reasonable to be a bit of a nut regardless of whatever risks you have in your personal life.
- Guns can absolutely be safe, and if they're bringing it to the beach, it's probably safe to assume it's legal.
  However, why the fuck anyone needs a gun at a beach is beyond me (or a grocery store, or library, or any number of other ridiculous places to bring a gun). America really needs to get their priorities straight, because it's not really funny anymore, it's scary.
  
  Guns, by definition, are not safe. They're literally made to kill people. You can take all the precautions in the world to mitigate the risks, of course, but the safest gun is the one that nobody can touch.
  
  They're made to kill, what they kill is up to the person holding it. They aren't something people should be toting around at the beach, you take them hunting, or to a range.
  
  Genuine question, does anybody ever hunt with pistols?
  Long guns are one thing, handguns are pretty explicitly anti-personnel weapons from my understanding.
  
  Occasionally, but no, not really.
  
  The hunters I know who carry a pistol do so do put down the animal in the case that the first shot didn't do it but I don't think it's that common especially now that it's virtually impossible to get a permit for pistol in my country
  
  They're made to kill. Hence, unsafe
  
  What if I put one inside a safe?
  
  How often do you take a safe to the beach?
  
  Then you can throw the safe at someone. Safe is unsafe. Unsafe all the way down
  
  As soon as a gun is introduced anywhere, safety automatically drops. That is a statistical fact.
  
  I don't know if they can really be safe at the beach though. You go in the water with your gun, or you leave it under your towel and hope a kid doesn't find it?
  
  I totally agree it's not safe at a beach, I was just stating that they can be safe, if treated with the proper respect.
  
  Guns can't be safe unless they're unloaded or broken
  
  And gun safety 101 teaches you a gun is always loaded.

201 comments