1y ago

Hawaii cannot ban guns on beaches, US judge rules

www.reuters.com Hawaii cannot ban guns on beaches, US judge rules

A federal judge has blocked the state of Hawaii from enforcing a recently enacted ban on firearms on its prized beaches and in other areas including banks, bars and parks, citing last year's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling expanding gun rights.

201 comments

Apart from the "why do you need it" question, the beach is specifically a place people often leave items that can't be taken in the water unattended. Sure, legislators can write laws about how a gun must not be left unattended and gun nuts can swear up and down about how they would never do that, but they will. No matter how much you think "there's a lot of people around" or "I'll just be in and out" or "I'll watch my stuff from the water", thefts happen, and now a mundane occurrence has turned a supposedly (not really) "safe" and "legal" gun into one of those dangerous "illegal" guns they can't be held responsible for.
We were perfectly happy with our gun laws, and they worked, and now fringe nutcases and a politically captured courts are telling us we can't implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they're not constantly armed.
- the nuts have a panic attack if they're not constantly armed.
  That's the real issue, here. These guys are absolutely fucking terrified 100% of the time. They pack heat in order to feel like something besides a helpless babyman.
  I have never even once felt like I couldn't possibly pick up a head of lettuce and some yogurt from the supermarket without some moral support from a gun. It's just fucking bizarre.
  
  Why do you assume they are absolutely fucking terrified vs thinking better safe than sorry?
  I know the risk of a violent encounter is low, but I carry because it's the only reliable way to not be at a disadvantage in a fight.
  Having a plan to avoid being assaulted isn't the same as living in terror.
  Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there's a good chance you don't understand something important.
  
  There are a large number of people who carry, they're not who you think they are and they're not afraid or paranoid. Just like you put on your seatbelt and have a smoke detector and fire extinguisher in your home...they carry and think nothing of it.
  The amount of white privilege shit shows how much propaganda you lot drink.
- we can't implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they're not constantly armed.
  Do you honestly think that panic attacks by gun carriers is the blocker to reasonable gun laws? The number of people that carry firearms regularly is not statistically significant, let alone those with panic attacks.
  I carry a concealed firearm because I think it's important for at risk groups to be able to defend themselves. I don't panic when I don't carry, but I recognize that I'm less prepared to defend myself from assault.
  It's important to understand those you disagree with.
  
  I can't think of any at-risk group that has meaningful influence on gun legislation, but many of the groups propping up the Republican party have been convinced they are in mortal danger.
  Though, frankly, I do find someone who thinks restrictions to carrying a gun at a beach in peaceful and multicultural Hawaii aren't reasonable to be a bit of a nut regardless of whatever risks you have in your personal life.
- Guns can absolutely be safe, and if they're bringing it to the beach, it's probably safe to assume it's legal.
  However, why the fuck anyone needs a gun at a beach is beyond me (or a grocery store, or library, or any number of other ridiculous places to bring a gun). America really needs to get their priorities straight, because it's not really funny anymore, it's scary.
  
  Guns, by definition, are not safe. They're literally made to kill people. You can take all the precautions in the world to mitigate the risks, of course, but the safest gun is the one that nobody can touch.
  
  As soon as a gun is introduced anywhere, safety automatically drops. That is a statistical fact.
  
  I don't know if they can really be safe at the beach though. You go in the water with your gun, or you leave it under your towel and hope a kid doesn't find it?
  
  Guns can't be safe unless they're unloaded or broken

What happened to respecting states rights? So sick of the judicial branch in the US, the most untethered and corrupt branch of them all. Which is saying a lot considering the state of the legislative branch.
- Republicans only care about state’s rights when they can use state law to push one of their terrible policies at state level because they can’t force it nationally.
  
  i.e. slavery
- States' rights only exists in the eyes of Conservatives if it's related to owning other humans.
- Republicans want all power consolidated at the level they can most effectively control. They were only ever about "states' rights" because they typically are better at capturing state governments than national institutions.
- Nothing else matters when something like MUH GUNS are at stake
- It was never a thing, and the GOP has never given a shit about it.
- Republicans have no political platform, but they do have a judicial agenda.
- Ummmm, pretty sure the fucking bill of rights trumps state right ffs.
  
  Until 15 years ago, there wasn't an individual right to bear arms, so talking about "the Bill of Rights" really just means "the Conservative Supreme Court".
- Hawaii is a colonial project and isn't respected by the federal court circuits in the same manner that continental states are. It's closer to Guam and Puerto Rico than other states in that it carries disproportionate financial and military burdens, including the effects from the Jones act for example.
  
  I gotta say, my understanding of MLism is pretty spotty, but a Lemmygrad user opposing the Jones Act seems really weird.
  Anti-Jones arguments are generally just raw-freetradeism -- advocating to remove protectionist regulations so businesses can off-shore (literally off shore) their shipping to cheaper foreign crews, with the (supposed) benefit being that they will save money and then pass the savings on to the consumer. Were you a big NAFTA fan as well?

How big of a coward do you have to be to feel the need to bring a gun to the beach?
- Have you met a conservative man lately? They're scared of everything. Especially their own feelings
- I think I know why... They're criminals.
  Pretty much only criminals have people trying to kill them everyday.
  Maybe America just has a lot of criminals Maybe so many that it's starting to show in our politics and democracy.
  I wish this post wasn't so believable. ...it was supposed to be sarcasm.

Can I carry one into the court where the justices meet? Or is safety just something the "little people" need to work about?

Another awful law 6 years in the making, all thanks to people being too lazy to go out and vote.
We are going to be feeling the repercussions of that laziness for decades to come.
In today's world, we can still see the results of Reaganomics and the terrible Reagan administration and what it did to this country some 4 decades later. Allowing Trump to enter the White House 6 years ago has, and will, continue to have a similar profound negative effect on the trajectory of this country for a long, long time.
You guys sure showed us!
- Lazy?
  Have you forgotten about the gerrymandering and voter suppression that's been going on?
  
  This is a result of a SCOTUS decision. SCOTUS membership is determined by the president and control of the senate at the time of vacancies. Neither of those are influenced by gerrymandering.
  At the core of it this comes down to 2016 when a larger than typical number of people on the left lied to themselves and said "eh, they're all teh same" and tossed their vote at a third party or just didn't vote at all. Following that, SCOTUS went from a 4-4 tie (with 1 vacancy) to 6-3 conservative advantange.
  I wouldn't blame laziness, but instead a combination of apathy and people who are more interested in ideological purity than in accepting the available-better such that they would rather complain about the unavailable-best.
  RBG refusing to retire in 2012-2014 also shares blame. She could have retired then and the court would be 5-4 instead.
  
  Riiiight, always with the excuses. Most of those fall flat when you consider HALF the registered voters can't be bothered to go vote on election day on most elections. Even in heavily trafficked ones, turnout rarely breaks 60 or 70%. Not saying voter suppression or gerrymandering doesn't exist, but neither of those would swing an election if we had enough people voting. The excuses have long since gotten old.
- Remember how a lot of ML communities on Reddit (now on Lemmy) were banning people from their subreddits for saying to vote Biden
  
  ML? I don't know what that stands for, but I did see the absurdity of Bernie and so-called progressive subs that were trying to convince people that a vote for Trump would further Bernie's agenda more than a vote for Hillary. They also were trying to convince people to "stick it to the DNC" and simply sit out the vote.
  So the foreign agents running those subs were trying to flip some votes and push voter apathy onto others. Doesn't take much to change an election and the stuff I saw was clearly just a teeny, tiny part of their larger misinformation campaign. A few key votes here or there and that would easily explain Trump's victory.
  There is no way this stuff isn't happening on Lemmy now. In fact, I guarantee it is.

Why do they defend so hard for like the one weird out of 1000 who openly waves a gun around that makes everyone extremely uncomfortable. People around open carriers don't think "wow freedom!", they get super fucking uncomfortable.
- Because that one out of a thousand is also the noisiest person at their local officials office

Why the fuck does anyone need a gun on the beach? I can’t think of one justifiable argument for needing one there.
- Land sharks
  
  Hmm. Fair point.
  
  Your right, damn sandsharks.
- But, what if someone sees an undesirable, having a good time, and simply wants to exercise their god-given right to harass them without fear of consequences?
  How do you stand your ground at them without this most basic thing?
  
  It’s really sad that a lot of Americans think that’s an actual valid argument.
- A well tanned Militia, being necessary to the security of a free Shore, the right of the beachgoers to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
  
  Best comment I’ve read on lemmy yet.
  
  lol This one made me laugh.
- To fight the dangerous riptide?
- 🤣
- Because they're constantly pants shittingly terrified of anything they don't understand and need a gun to feel anything other than the constant overwhelming feeling of cowardice in the face of normal life.
  
  Good point.
- Well duh how else are you going to protect yourself from all the other armed people on the beach?
  
  And like, what about sandcrabs?
- Seagulls
  
  I guess. They are rats of the sky.
- Beach moose.
  
  “Beach moose! Everybody run for cover! I’ll take care of this!” and then I just started blastin’…
- The law in question prohibits licensed carry of firearms from a list of areas and premises, it does not only ban guns on beaches.
  posted by @30mag@lemmy.world
- Well, what it someone really, really wants to get sand and salt water into all the little nooks and crannies and tightly clearanced areas in their gun?
- It's like that Taylor Swift song goes: "It's like guns on the beach, weird but fuckin beau-POP POP POP POP".
  It's an American classic.

Damn, the US annexation of Hawai'i continues to hurt their nation :-(
I hope one day they can win their freedom back.

If they can't ban guns, they should ban conservatives instead. Problem solved.
Friendly Reminder: It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on political affiliation. Do your part to help fight conservatism by excluding conservatives in your daily life. It is not appropriate to conduct business or keep relationships with such people.
- what about the liberal gun owners?
  
  Good luck finding a liberal gun owner who is bringing it to a beach...
  
  Liberal gun owners (like me) aren't taking guns to beaches.
  
  This is the twisted removed logic that conservatives hold.
  "I'm a piece of shit who wants to bring a gun to the beach, Liberals must want the same terrible things I do"

USA: Has major gun violence problem.
US legal system: yEw cANt tAYKE thUR fReeDUMB

Oh yeah, well what about MY freedom to go to a beach and not be worried about getting fucking SHOT? Why do THEY get all these rights and freedoms while WE have to suffer the consequences? I don't fucking get it. What about our rights to not get shot?
- If someone wants to go to the beach with a gun, with the purpose of shooting at people, you think a law is going to stop them?
  
  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/7-year-old-shot-killed-fourth-july-jet-ski-dispute-florida-rcna92896
  Two groups of morons both armed started a ruckus, pulled their guns, started shooting, and now an innocent bystander CHILD is fucking dead. Because idiots couldn't leave their guns at home. It's not all about active shooters.
  Witnesses described the scene as two groups of Hispanic males shooting at one another, police said.
  Don't you just love all this freedom we have?!?

"Who needs guns on the beach"
I'm trans. Id sooner never go. But if I had to, with the way things are going, you bet your ass I am afraid and would rather be armed
- As a trans person, would you rather go to a beach where nobody is armed, or to a beach where everybody might be armed?
  
  I’m not trans, but I’d rather go where everyone might be armed. Just because everyone is supposed to not bring a gun somewhere doesn’t mean there won’t be someone that does- how many shootings in the US happen in “gun free zones”?
- Hell yes. Make guns a nonpartisan "nonissue." Armed minorities are harder to oppress, and gun control disproportionately affects minorities in marginalized and overpoliced communities. One state just removed the requirement for pistol purchase permits because (as it was designed to be in the first place since it was a Jim Crow era law) racist sheriffs were denying black people's permits, 60% of denials were to black people.
  
  Yeah, famously, the US doesn't oppress minorities because of all the guns.

That Supreme Court case was a ridiculous rewriting of historical facts.
- That can apply to just about every case the Supreme Joke have given the last few years

The Second Amendment is all about having arms and arms training so that men are generally ready to join a war, specifically against the English. It was never about walking around with a gun for "self-defense." Also, bullets weren't even invented yet, so they really had no idea at all about modern guns.

There’s a Simpsons for this one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/comments/sj4gz4/ukelele_pineapples_beach_pistol_scandalously/

Hm, how does California get away with banning it then? Or is that next on the chopping block?

The rules are all made up. The Supreme Court is a sham

Say goodbye to tourist dollars from Asia.

Klaus from the Life Aquatic of Team Zissou is the first thing that came to mind reading this.

Well if its public land, then I don't see why not. You don't need a reason to carry.
- You should need a reason to bring a gun to a beach. You are likely not carrying it unless you are clothed and never go into the water. Do you really think people are going to stay at the beach wearing a holster the whole time?
  
  Its public land, is it not?
- Yep I hope to see more gun rights precedents set by this SC. It's the one thing that's good about that court now
  
  Yes this great "injustice" of not being able to take guns with me everywhere must be corrected.
  🙄

Good ruling. If I'm just walking through public land legally carrying I shouldn't be bared from an area just because of its proximity to water. 2nd amendment is clear on that.

Hawai'i isn't legally part of the US; the federal judge's opinion has no bearing there.
- I’m sorry, what now?
  
  Hawai'i was illegally annexed and the indigenous people never agreed to joining the US.
  BBC article covering the basic facts, with something of a pro-US slant Wikipedia's summary of the issue, with links to more references
- Does the state flag have gold fringe? Does this fall under Maritime Law?
- I bet you’re one of those “sovereign citizen” types, aren’t you?
  
  How much do you bet?
- So long as the people with political and physical power follow that opinion, I think you'll find it has rather a lot of bearing, actually.

201 comments