New book reveals Tiananmen square massacre, others fabricated by US
A new book reveals that numerous atrocities that the United States had alleged to have been committed by its foes never happened to begin with.
Basic image analysis like this should have been done ages ago, but libs don't care about the truth just blind propagandizing
Let's supposed it was done: (I don't know if anyone did or didn't)
Who would have broadcasted or platformed it?
Oh it has been. Libs simply don't care. They have a religious conviction that communism bad and they'll interpret any information to support that conviction, and dismiss anything that contradicts it. Parenti's "Non-falsifiable orthodoxy" is a great term for how they think.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
You don't get it! Deng flattened all the people with his fat cheeks, then inflated everyone back up, then cleaned up the blood and viscera but not the bodies!
I believe there's actually video footage of tank man climbing up on the tank, conversing with the tank commander, and then getting down and walking away.
I'm told that many people were lying prone because there was machine gun fire from the battle between the PLA and the insurgents several blocks away.
The only reason whitey even gives a shit about these dead chinese people is that they hate china so much. After all, half of them are still secretly jerking themselves off at the thought of millions of chinese farmers dying due to the Three Gorges Dam going broke.
Same can be applied to Xinjiang propaganda. "Oh, the State Department now cares about Muslim lives?"
The US led war on terror killed more Muslims than exist in Xinjiang
Yea lol, i don't think i've ever heard a liberal even mention the student massacre in Mexico in the late 60s. They don't give a shit, they just use it as a justification for their hatred.
Muricans; TIANAMEN SEESEEPEE 10,000 dead tank jelly gutters!
Also Muricans: What do you mean Indonesia slaughtered half a million innocent people with the knowledge and support of the US government? What do you means the US and Saudi conspired to kill hundreds of thousands of Yemenis in a campaign of naked and uncomplicated genocide? What do you mean the South Korean forces murdered tens of thousands of innocent people using a pretense of communism? That's all bullshit I would have heard about that and anyway they weren't white so I don't care.
I like that we have/need new books to re-report information that was widely known decades ago because of how easy it is to sell propaganda to the west. We have actual documentaries, made by the west at the time of Tiananmen, that completely contradicts the massacre narrative that was invented years later. lol. Libs really will believe anything as long as it comes from the mouth of some oligarch backed talking head.
The key reason this kind of lazy propaganda works is because people want to believe it. It leverages the latent racism and capitalist realism people have internalized living in decaying western societies. The idea that a country that doesn't follow liberal ideology could be more successful is a complete anathema to these people.
Indeed. "The west is the best" is the prevailing thought in the zeitgeist of the west. So as bad as things can be in the west, at least they are still "the best." But if other nations actually practice "freedom and liberty" better than they do, despite not screaming about how "free" they are all the time, it calls the whole western narrative into question. And causes a lot of cognitive dissonance. And people in the west are not given the tools they need to deal with that, so they just lash out and get angry, or find an easy excuse to ignore it.
The massacre false narrative was invented basically at the same time as the actual events of the 4th/5th took place, you can see foreign diplomatic actors who were there talk about how "others" are saying there was machine gun fire on crowds while they themselves saw no such thing.
Edit: Someone else posted one of the leaks I was thinking of: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/89BEIJING18828_a.html
Have you seen that chart that tracks how Americans went from credditing the USSR for making the greatest sacrifice in WWII and contributing the most to victory in 1946, to completely removing the Soviet contribution from the picture by the 80s? It's really sad. The Red Army deserves better.
I'm interested in the documentaries, if you could cite them. Not trying to be snarky and say "Sauce?", just genuinely curious and I'd like to watch a documentary on the topic, anyway.
Libs will probably lose their minds if they can't make jokes about Tiananmen Square.
Aww my kitty was named Tinyman (pronounced like a Jewish surname). I've never seen that word outside of reference to my kitty.
I'm probably replying to some anti-lib community, but it's really weird coming from "/c/all" that nearly every comment has some sort of jab at "libs" for a topic that I would never associate with a political spectrum.
Fyi I'm not affiliated with any political "side" and I'm not American, so it just seems weird to be.
We are an a communist instance. American liberals (which includes both of their major political parties) are very imperialist and love to push propaganda about their enemies. It's why public opinion for China took a nose dive in the last 10 years. Why Iran is so evil, but nobody thinks about Kuwait. Why Tiananmen square gets so much attention but the white terror receives none. China's the enemy, and "Taiwan" is an innocent friend that needs protecting.
Being communist, we are anti-imperialist, and hate the war mongering propaganda that the liberals seem to lap up. They see this as being conspiracy theorists or contrarian. Hence the conflict about things like this.
Thread I wrote about Tiananmen: https://twitter.com/prolewiki/status/1666492127730098208 (Thread reader link due to Musk fuckery on twitter)
CIA-funded leader Chai Ling crying crocodile tears hoping students will be shot while she herself deadpan says she'll be out of the country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5__ESiklA1A. She was later extradited by the CIA during Operation Yellowbird and now lives in the USA.
Yeah, that was one of the more fucked up sections of the video I posted, is her crying into a camera. The way she starts crying because the students kept trying to have a peaceful resolution with the government instead of getting themselves massacred... Their entire goal was go try and get as many of their fellow students killed as possible to have as propaganda footage. Like who watches that and then sympathizes with her? Who sees someone crying, because the people under her were trying to be reasonable and not provoke a needless massacre, and thinks "Oh that poor girl. Having to deal with these people that don't want to get killed for the CIA." ?"
I mean,
Anti communists are weird, perverse freaks and many of them would happily murder the entire human population if they thought it would keep people from helping each other and making the world better.God she is such a toolbag. "You need to all go get yourselves killed even though none of you wanted a violent confrontation and many wanted market liberalization to stop and for communist economics to be re-instated! Others just wanted a loosening of socially conservative norms so they could hold hands with their partners without getting dirty looks in public. But what you need to do is start a violent conflict with your PLA comrades for no clear reason. I won't do it of course, because I am too important to die for the cause that literally only me and like seven other people here care about!"
I always enjoy re-watching the full "Tank Man" video, with the "brutal Chinese tanks" awkwardly trying to bypass the protestor and patiently waiting him out. I think libs just see that single frame and fill the gaps with their own experiences in their countries in thinking that the guy got ran over or something. If you try that with a secret service car they might do just that.
I think it's something Statesians get taught in schools. In Europe we'd always heard he stopped the tanks and then went on his way but "was never seen again", not that the tanks rolled him over or anything.
It was not fabricated, it was exaggerated. Clashes occurred around Beijing and bloodshed was real. Most of them were Maoists clashing with pro market reform government.
Nobody is denying bloodshed. There absolutely were violent protests outside the square. The claim in question is that the military gunned down thousands of peaceful protesters in the square, which so far as I know is a claim that's exclusively made by people who were not there.
Even that is giving too much credit to the US government narrative.
There literally are all the US mainstream news outlets like CBS News who actually had reporters there at the time: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/
Also from classified US communications with assets on the ground: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/89BEIJING18828_a.html
Funniest thing is that "tank man" photo idiots spam on Reddit all the time. Most people in the west don't realize there is video of it, that the guy didn't get run over. Furthermore they assume he was blocking tanks heading towards the square, infact those tanks were at the time headed away from the square to avoid engaging with armed agitators (people with guns and grenades that had killed police) in a crowded environment. Dude was trying to make them go back.
The deaths that day were people who got gunned down by the "protestors" or the police who were killed when the "protestors" threw grenades (military ordnance) into police vehicles. People that were armed by the CIA as part of a color revolution operation, one that failed because it didn't actually have any support and more importantly because the PLA commander on the scene ordered his units to leave the area rather than responding in kind. The only actual protestors that day were communists having labor protests happening nearby and not the dancing libertine youth acting as the face of the US color revolution operation involving armed groups trying unsuccessfully to provoke the PLA soliders into responding to deadly attacks with deadly force in a crowded urban environment.
I don't think violent protests is an appropriate description. From what I understand armed insurgents ambushed and killed unarmed PLA soldiers and there was a running street battle as armed PLA units tried to get to the area to combat them.
On balance, it would be fair to say that while thousands of protestors were most likely not gunned down in the square itself, hundreds were being gunned down around it. So there was a massacre by the PLA, it just didn't happen in the square itself.
most of them by the time the actual violent clashes happened certainly werent maoists. Yeah there was a significant % of the protestors that were coming from the left of the CPC but you have to remember that the unrest span month(s) and many cities. In Tainanmen by that point in the movement and leading to that the make up of those that stayed and engaged in lynchings and clashes with the PLA and police was solidly "pro-democracy/free-s[peech/liberalism" youth. Also western intelligence focus and assets had already zeroed in in Beijing and those elements after smelling blood from the more organic initial country wide unrest.
My understanding is that that is not the case at all, and that the CIA backed "liberal democracy" gang was a very small number of people who bullied their way in to control of the PA system and never had much support from the students. My understanding is that when the PLA finally made an ultimatum to leave almost all the students joined hands and walked out of the square peacefully. I believe there was some confrontation between PLA soldiers in riot gear and students, but it was relatively minor and confined to small areas of the square. It's hared to overstate that what happened bears no relationship at all to the western narrative.
let me put this here real quick
Sorry for the shitpost reply, but, lol no shit.
Edit: just wait till you find out about what Gaddafi actually did and how the USG used him as a virtual supervillain to fund our adventures in the Levant. The USG and their mouthpieces always lie.
I mean Gaddafi was by many political and social measures somewhat reactionary, due to some aspects of his nationalism, religious orientation (traditional Islam is reactionary; he was resolutely anti-communist and anti-Marxist because of its perceived atheism), as well as traditionalist views of women, despite being more progressive in this respect that that conservative Islamic figures or Islamists. There was an immense concentration of wealth around Gaddafi, although there was also undoubtedly a massive restribution of wealth and improvement in quality of life, I don't think it amounted to a genuinely socialist society. In any case, the meaning of his use of the term 'socialism' was not what Marxist mean, although there were some properties in common.
Ofc you are correct that this becomes irrelevantly weaponized by Western imperialism. The reason Gaddafi was removed was because he was promoting an alterative international monetary system to the dollar, presumably underwritten by Libyan (and allied countries') oil. More generally the anti-imperialist geopolitical policy of the Libyan state clearly played a key role, having targeted foreign capital the moment he came to power. There was probably also a central role being played by the French regime's special forces and intelligence under Sarkozy, as the latter had confirmed links with Gaddafi. A lot of investigative reporting has indicated that Gaddafi was threatening Sarkozy to go public with the fact Gaddafi has brided him. If seems that French intelligence located Gaddafi and likely organized the manpower who actually merked him.
religious orientation (traditional Islam is reactionary
iirc correctly he had a pretty weird conception of Islam that was a deviation from most of the traditional schools of jurisprudence, but admittedly i don't know many details.
iirc a bunch of European and American special forces spookys who absolutely were not supposed to be there got caught in Libya during the insurrection.
Good post.
The CIA also helped transfer weapons from Libya to Syria and, well that's where ISIS got their guns from.
I'm bowing out y'all, it was fun. Definitely will be looking into this event and checking some references people pointed me to.
That's dope. The one thing I always find frustrating when bickering over politics is people not even caring to read or learn more. I have a lot more respect for my friends when they do, even if all it does is give more nuance to their takes.
Hell if I never decided to read more shit I'd still be a right winger with the rest of the nutcase family.
Right, learning is always good. The thing is, every fringe group, whether it's MAGA, anarchists, or ML or whatever, everyone wants you to read their docs.
And while I'm willing to check some stuff out, I've come to conclusions based on arm-chair reasoning such as "no government can ever be trusted", "humans are fallible, and putting some of them above others is inherently problematic regardless of the system". I'll read but am doubtful something will be able to convince me to trust in government or someone with power.
Lots of respect for you, my friend.
One more, because I don’t think anyone else posted it, is Qiao Collective’s reading list on the e event. It’s a lot of reading but the sources are pretty good: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist
Glad to hear the change of heart. I thought you were a lost cause.
Lurker here: this was a really cool conversation to read. Much respect to you, hope you stick around the instance. Telling people to post hog is fun and all but seeing a genuine good faith conversation about some super polarizing political opinions is what makes me most glad we federated.
Excellent!
Shouldn't even take a book to come to that conclusion, honestly. Frankly, I doubt anyone who is entrenteched in the propaganda around the event would change their mind no matter how much evidence you show them. For them, China is bad, so everything else must follow from that.
Even western media, at the time of the event, said that basically nothing happened in the square. It wasn't until they realised that didn't line up with the US position that they changed their line, but you can find old articles (including first hand accounts from diplomats in the area) that say there wasn't much.
I don't think anyone denies that some violence occured in the city as a whole, though it was very often levied the opposite way of popular portrayal. Especially because a lot of the PLA that were initially deployed were not even armed.
Westies are just really sour that their color revolution failed in China.
Even wikipedia mostly admits what really happened now.
Does it? Keep an eye on that article. I would imagine that it gets heavily edited the day before any big China news is mentioned in the western press, and especially right before June 6th.
Damn this post is a warzone 😂
There wasn't a massacre on June 4th 1989, but there is in this comment section.
I love it, it feels like cth again. Some great dunks, no hogs unfortunately.
This is more of your traditional "wall of text" leftist community.
The whole Tiananmen thing is so ridiculous. Chinese government's official estimate? ~300 deaths. People who were in the square? No one died in the square, good mood between soldiers and students, soldiers asked students to leave when dickass CIA plant started trying to start a riot, students left with no problems, ~300 people were killed (including PLA soldiers, many of whom were unarmed!) in fighting several blocks from the square. Every credible source that wasn't just making up unhinged bullshit - About 300 people died.
It's so damn frustrating, it's just pure, utter bullshit but libs believe it with nigh-religious ferver and certainty.
is there a tldr on exactly what happened then? there were undeniably a lot of tanks present, which is not a good sign.
this is a pretty good summary https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/
I did a deep-ish dive on primary and secondary evidence for the time. Still have it in a google doc that could turn out an article.
I think the tl;dr is that the popular narrative (especially in Australia, where I live) is that the CPC bulldozed 10,000 protesters at Tiananmen Square with tanks in 1989 because they were protesting against the communist party. Guts squishing out of treads. The narrative obviously paints Australia's largest export partner as hideously evil (and by association every socialist project. Whether or not you accept this, a lot of Australians do).
My own research (sorry, I hate this term, conspiracy theorists ruined it) has uncovered a few things that are publicly available that throw shade on this narrative:
Anyway, after doing this "research" I kinda figured that most people in my social circles don't want to hear it, even though the information is very publicly available. So why bother bringing it up in normal conversation? The best you're doing is probably excluding yourself from any conversation.
I still have the names of the journos, parties etc. in question if you want, as well as various links. I am just a little drunk and haven't opened up the document.
I am approaching this in as good faith as possible.
Some additions - The majority of PLA soldiers in the area were unarmed, and from what I understand relations between the students and the PLA were positive throughout. There are a lot of stories of them all singing songs together and sharing food. The vast majority of the PLA soldiers had no weapons at all, not even riot control gear or helmets. They were just there in their uniforms. When the students were finally told to leave they did so in good order. I think there may have been some use of riot batons, but if there was it was very minor and the vast, vast majority of the students left peacefully.
The fighting was apparently between relatively small numbers of insurgents and PLA soldiers. As the PLA in the area were initially unarmed the first deaths were PLA soldiers who were ambushed in their trucks and APCs by insurgents with molotovs and burned alive. It took a while for armed PLA units to arrive and engage the insurgents. The ~300 deaths number is agreed on by the Chinese government as well as a number of western observers and researchers.
No one denies the huge volume of soldiers and many tanks, APCs, etc there, or even that there was military conflict down the road, but there are many fantastical stories about tanks mulching corpses and soldiers firing into crowds with abandon that are unfounded.
From what I understand hundreds of thousands of PLA troops were moved in to Beijing from other regions, but throughout the demonstration the PLA and students had good relations with each other, singing songs and sharing food. At any rate, the PLA soldiers were mostly unarmed, especially the ones in the square, and there was very little violence between the PLA and the student protestors.
It's worth keeping in mind that many of the PLA soldiers and students were likely of similar ages, came from similar backgrounds, and were both experiencing the new hardships caused by Dengist changes in economic policy.
wiggers, Tibetan singing bowls, social security score, et cetera et cetera
what the fuck is this shite, tiananmen happened you fucking cunts cry me a river
Anti-Communists: "communists are all brainwashed to ignore evidence!"
Anti communists when faced with the evidence:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Mothers
please contact the families of the dead yourself you heartless fuck
cry me a river
your ideologues sure fucking did when no one got massacred at the tiananmen square
Gonna cry about 10k invented dead people? ok, it's good to let emotions out sometimes
Akshually sweaty, according to the intense and very legitimate research of the victims of communism foundation every one of those 10,000 theoretical victims would have had 10,000 good anti-communist childre, who would have had 10,000 children, so really the ICUP killed THIRTY INFINITY PEOPLE, including all of the neanderthals and DB Cooper!
What do you have to say to that, tankie!?!?!
Have you ever tried... Reading anything? Other than comment sections I mean.
Even western sources agree with us. The only place that continues to spread the mythological bullshit narrative that was first dreamt up about it is reddit. Everyone else, even the western press, has accepted that the Chinese narrative is more accurate.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/
lmao you wanna try that again without any slurs? you forgot to put your mask on before coming into the discussion, dronie
There was a protest, there was no massacre. Sorry the facts hurt your feelings
Why would you get angry at the fact that there's less massacres?
thats a perverted bastardisation of my argument and you know it, im angry cause youre lying about a massacre that did happen not happening
This is what tankies actually believe
It's true we do!
Facts and logic don't care about your ideology!
If by tankies you mean people who have any historical literacy at all then yeah.
Wow, straight-up propaganda. Seek the Truth, people. That event has been covered by multiple reputable journalists, from all around the world...
CBS news had a reporter in the square at the time. You should read what he said
But there's no question many people were killed by the army that night around Tiananmen Square.
The link 404s lol. No archives either from what I can find.
没有调查，没有发言权
The Myth of Tiananmen: And the price of a passive press | Columbia Journalism Review
Coming even from from an anarchist (i.e. someone who is also distrustful of government, media, etc), this type of stuff makes you guys sound crazy. In 2023 saying Tiananmen Square massacre never happened is an extraordinary claim and therefore is going to require extraordinary evidence for effective persuasion. You behave like Chinese state apologists to most people.
Now maybe you're right, TBH I can't claim to know for certain, but if you actually want to convince people you need to do more than point to documents I have no more reason to believe than the pictures and documents I've already seen. Why should I believe your sources vs what as far as I can tell is the rest of the academic world that doesn't agree with you? Especially when it seems apparent that current Chinese leadership has an obvious authoritarian quality and ends justify the means type of attitude. You may deny this but all it takes for me to believe it is to see the fear in the faces of Chinese people when asked certain questions.
saying Tiananmen Square massacre never happened is an extraordinary claim and therefore is going to require extraordinary evidence
You got the concept completely backwards. The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not on others to disprove.
Saying that soldiers gunned down a bunch of unarmed protestors is the extraordinary claim here, and it's the one that lacks evidence. A picture of bicycles and of one man standing in front of a tank is not evidence of a massacre. If there's better evidence out there then please provide it.
Very well said. I forget that one can already be on the defensive when engaging due to poor faith arguments or extraordinary claims which seem so obvious by others but which still need hard evidence to believe rather than gestures and seemingly innocuous phrasing.
I would say the more extraordinary of these claims is the one believed by a tiny subset of the western world (at least when these claims are made in the western world).
A bunch of people on Lemmy pointing me to likely auth-communist propaganda is no different to me than a bunch of Christians pointing me to the bible. Why would I believe your websites any more than I believe the bible, or CNN?
No ML denies that China is 'authoritarian'. They argue that all states are.
Almost everything Marxists say is poorly understood by their detractors and framed in a negative light in one way or another.
what as far as I can tell is the rest of the academic world that doesn’t agree with you?
This makes it seem as though you haven't read the literature and arguments of either side. If that's the case you shouldn't be coming to any conclusions at all, especially to dismiss one side outright for being unorthodox. By definition, the counter narrative is going to sound unorthodox in light of the orthodox claims. The correct approach is to read the source and judge it on its own merit and in light of other known facts.
This makes it seem as though you haven’t read the literature and arguments of either side.
Correct, I have not studied this event.
If that’s the case you shouldn’t be coming to any conclusions at all
You'll notice I didn't come to a conclusion.
dismiss one side outright for being unorthodox.
Your position is in fact unorthodox in my culture (U.S.) -- that's what I'm saying. If you have a non-standard position, if you actually want to convince people you need to make the information accessible and give people a reason why they should believe it over their normally acceptable sources. Making fun of them is probably counter-productive (even if it is fun).
all it takes for me to believe it is to see the fear in the faces of Chinese people when asked certain questions.
The "I talked to one person so now I'm an expert on the situation" school of historical anyalysis.
I too would be scared talking to a patchouli oil scented, dreadlocked white boy anarchist.
My understanding is that most people in China don't really care about the 1989 unrest and are perplexed as to why westerners make such a huge deal of it.
The country that says Iraq had WMD said China did a thing that wouldn't make any sense for them to do. That is the extraordinary claim. Why do you feel that a claim made by the US, who has only ever lied to you, is a reasonable starting point?
extraordinary claim and therefore is going to require extraordinary evidence
All it takes to prove that the massacre did happen is evidence. Where is this extraordinary evidence?
Proving that something doesn't exist is much harder. There was a liberal in here earlier though that was also saying that we're a bunch of conspiracy theorists. I gave him links, you can see them below. First hand reports from people who were actually there say that there was no massacre. This includes a CBS reporter and a Latin American diplomat.
First hand reports from people who were actually there say that there was no massacre.
In the square itself, maybe, but all eyewitnesses agree that the PLA shot and killed many hundreds of protesters in Beijing during the protests, which had been (until that point) largely peaceful.
So while you at the author of this article might be correct to say that there was no actual massacre in Tiananmen Square itself, there certainly was a massacre going on around it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm
Honestly, you want a simple, widely accepted, heavily west-biased source? Literally just read the wikipedia article.
"[CBS and WP journalists] could not find enough evidence to suggest that a massacre took place on the square"
"cables from the United States embassy in Beijing agreed there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square"
Nobody here is denying there were protests, or that a limited number people died in clashes with police across the country. But literally no reputed source, western lib or otherwise, claims that the government was out in Tianenmen killing civilians in major numbers.
You have seen documents that are reliable and not published by American and European imperialist intelligence agencies? Produce them then, that is the extraordinary claim
I have only seen what is common of Americans to see, just like 911. Do you think 911 happened? I've been there, was there no twin towers ever? They're not there now. I haven't seen any special highly credible documents about that either, but I'm pretty sure it happened (who did is another question).
Anarchists and illiteracy, name a more iconic duo.
It's a clickbaity title, and it's disappointing to see people engaging with it on the grounds of contrarianism, I guess.
The truth is (which I would assume/hope many here agree with) is that the violence associated with the protests was very real. It was , however, greatly exaggerated by western media in many cases. This has been known for decades, I'm not sure what this book offers that would change that at this point (no, I'm not going to read the article)
Coming even from from an anarchist (i.e. someone who is also distrustful of government, media, etc), this type of stuff makes you guys sound crazy.
It only sounds crazy if you assume you cannot possibly be a victim of a propaganda campaign, which I get it it's uncomfortable to think about but consider it and do your own research.
Most reliable genzedong news source. When you google A B Abrams, supposed writer of the book in question there is zero information about him other than the very questionable books he has written from very biased news sources. And there aren’t many.
Let me ask you this, what does A B in A B Abrams stand for? Nothing because they aren’t a real person.
When you google A B Abrams, one of the top results is from the “daily nk” i.e. the daily North Korea. Where we are told that the author has published under multiple pseudonyms, none of which we are told. They supposedly have multiple Masters degrees in “related fields” from the university of London. Which by the way, is not a single university but a group of different universities throughout London, so that’s even more vague. And then finally, we are told that “A B Abrams” studied korean at the university of Pyongyang. And has many contacts with people inside of North Korea.
To me, this screams propaganda, likely originating from North Korea or potentially even China, in order to make the west look bad. And you can make the west look bad without lying about the Tiananmen Square Massacre’s existence.
To deny the events that unfolded at Tiananmen Square is like denying that humans have been to the moon. It’s an unfounded, in fact, disprovable conspiracy theory.
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
To deny the events that unfolded at Tiananmen Square is like denying that humans have been to the moon. It’s an unfounded, in fact, disprovable conspiracy theory.
So prove it to us then. All you're doing right now is scolding us for being insane conspiracy theorists. I've never seen any evidence that anything happened at tiananmen square. Reports from people who were actually there all say that there was no massacre
The US has a very long history of lying about its enemies. There are plenty of declassified CIA docs that talk about what lies to tell the media. Why is this one different?
Edit: also, see pen names. Isn't it a little hypocritical to call us conspiracy theorists when you come to the conclusion that the book was lies written by China or North Korea because you can't find any information about the author?
Isn’t it a little hypocritical to call us conspiracy theorists
Radlibs and seeing irony are the bitterest of foes.
The Daily NK is a South Korean newspaper that also happens to be funded by the US through the National Endowment for Democracy. It would be funny if the US were funding a North Korean propaganda outfit but somehow I don’t think that’s what’s happening.
It would be funny if the US were funding a North Korean propaganda outfit but somehow I don’t think that’s what’s happening.
Hey, maybe while we were out posting, the reincarnated Huey Newton and William Z. Foster took over the US government and established a Marxist-Leninist state. After all, nobody can right at this instant prove it didn't happen...
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
Because the purpose of the firewall is to keep the West out.
This is like asking why people who call the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression" are censored/ignored. It's historically inaccurate and you deserve to be the subject of animus and suspicion if you do so.
Because the purpose of the firewall is to keep the West out.
This is a common misconception. The real purpose of the Great Firewall is to keep China's posters in. The CPC is doing the world a great kindness. I've seen the magnitude of posting that happens in China. We could not survive posting of that magnitude.
100% more reliable as a source than Adrian Zenz and yet Im sure you believe all the Uigher genocide bullshit that almost always circles back to him or literally U.S. mouthpieces like Radio Free Asia
Why don't you read the book, investigate the citations and claims, and report back on whether the text is fabricated?
Whether or not the writer has a connection to China or the DPRK doesn't actually impact the soundness of any claim. If anything, you are taking an extreme position about academic authority that isn't reflective of reality. You should use your critical thinking skills to assess the claims in the book instead of attacking the author because they might be a Korean or Chinese national. It is kinda racist to assume someone from China or Pyongyang are unable to write on these topics without it being "propaganda"
Don't you know? If a source comes for CHYNA or NORF COURIER it is automatically fake and lies. Automatically. If Xi Jinping said the moon is real, it would instantly pop out of existence.
in order to make the west look bad. And you can make the west look bad without lying about the Tiananmen Square Massacre’s existence.
Then why would these sources be lying?
NKnews and Daily NK are anti-DPRK news outlets funded by the U.S. Be pretty funny if even y'all's most orientalist propaganda outlet turned out to be Norf Kowean (OR EVEN CHINESE!!!) Pwopaganda!
Publishing under a pseudonym makes a lot of sense to me when you are publishing books that could be hazardous to your health.
If you wanna read an informative text on this topic that is sourced you can refer to: https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/
It is long but crucially contains the background of the protests which most people are unaware of.
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship
Open report 590, it's the first item of the day. I hope you didn't expect they would talk about it in English.
This just in: Author known for writing books.
If you are actually interested in learning about the event and you are skeptical if this book, then you should look at Qiao Collective’s reading list: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist
if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
They don't. People in China know that the protests in 89 happened, they just don't think it's a big deal. The idea that it's this huge dangerous taboo is just western
brainwormsDude. These people are insane and not worth your time. Just block the sub like I’m about to do and never look back. They can find comfort in their eco chamber
"People who disagree with me are mentally ill and worthless. I, for one, prefer to create my own comfortable eco chamber, never look back, and then accuse them of living in an eco chamber."
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Nah, you're in the echo believing western propaganda that you're too stupid to recognize. You probably believe in weeger genocide. Ethnic minorities, including uighurs were excluded from the one child policy. If China wanted to do genocide, why would they be exempt from draconian population control that was already in place?
Just block the sub
They can find comfort in their ec[h]o chamber
