2d ago

Should Lemmy stop accepting crypto"currencies" as donations?

Pump-and-dump schemes, fraud, ransomware, multi-level marketing, spam, incentivizing selfishness, greed, and general unethical behaviour, buying elections, quasi Nazis creating their own coins, et cetera. In my opinion, over the years the evidence has piled up tall enough to show that crypto"currencies" are an overal detriment to society.

It therefore surprised me to discover that behind the ♡ donation button on top of most Lemmy instances except for Beehaw, there is an option to donate "crypto". This sets a bad example. Thoughts?

32 comments

Depending on where users are located, it might be the only realistic option they have if they want to donate. Besides, traditional payment systems like PayPal, MasterCard, Visa etc are all problematic in their own right.
- "Depending on where users are located, it might be the only realistic option they have if they want to donate."
  Could you give us an example of such a location please?
  "Besides, traditional payment systems like PayPal, MasterCard, Visa etc are all problematic in their own right."
  Whataboutism fallacy.
  
  Could you give us an example of such a location please?
  Russia, which is blocked from other international payment systems. Or any other authoritarian country where you might not necessarily want the government to know where you donate your money to.
  Whataboutism fallacy.
  We're still throwing around fallacies like it's 2010? Okay, I cast fallacy fallacy!
  When talking about whether a dopnation button should have a specific payment option, it's relevant if the alternatives it offers are better or worse. Otherwise, the argument might as well be to not have a donation option at all.

No one abides by community rules 😞 or understands that c/asklemmy is supposed to be a clone of r/AskReddit.
Open-ended question
Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
This is more a question for !lemmy@lemmy.ml.

Wait until you learn about tradfi
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/feb/20/credit-suisse-secrets-leak-unmasks-criminals-fraudsters-corrupt-politicians
EDIT: to answer slightly more seriously, crypto is just a tool. The great thing about crypto is that anybody can use it. The bad thing about crypto is that anybody can use it. Yes, there's lots of dogshit out there (by lots I mean like 95% or more). But the big projects, BTC, ETH, defi stuff like AAVE, Compound, etc are very useful tools. I don't think people realize how exploitative the banking and finance industry really are, and crypto bypasses most of that.
- This whataboutism is probably the most used fallacy within the crypto"currency" sphere. If A and B cause cancer, and A was first, it doesn't follow that B is less malignant.
  Quoted from my Crypto Cult Science essay linked in the original post:
  “Strong currencies are not the solution to poor governance. Good governance and democracy makes a country and its currency strong. Not vice versa.” —halukakin, HackerNews, 2021
  
  You're free to not use them, if you want. But me and many others are going to appreciate that these alternatives that don't rely on centralised cervices exist, that won't track credit scores, personal information, or use tech companies with privacy and freedom concerns.
  
  Talking about logical fallacies while summarily hand-waving away all of crypto is pretty interesting.
  I guess some random HN user is smarter than the research arms of these companies who are all building on and utilizing crypto: https://ethereumadoption.com/
  😂
  Edit: stablecoins have already reached parity with traditional payment networks
  And yea, like the other user said, just don't use it! Nobody will be mad that you don't use it, or care. I don't have venmo, so I don't use it. I don't get mad when somebody offers it. 🤷‍♀️

Can't speak for other cryptos (generally stay away), but Monero at least has a track record of being actually private/anonymous (unlike btc) and generally doesn't fluctuate in price nearly as much as others (something the devs try to design into it). Several trusted privacy-focused services (VPNs, VoIP, etc.) accept it as a payment method. If I want to donate to Lemmy, I'd rather do so in a way that keeps my bank from knowing the details and keeping a record of that for who knows how long.

Cryptocurrencies are a tool, similar to how money is a tool. You can't blame money itself for all the scummy shit done using it, similarly for cryptocurrencies.
Now whether it's about their impact to energy consumption is a whole other deal that I too dislike about it, but it's a really good anonymous funding tool without being under the influence of payment brokers.
- "Cryptocurrencies are a tool, similar to how money is a tool. You can’t blame money itself for all the scummy shit done using it, similarly for cryptocurrencies."
  A knife is a tool. Knives can be used for food and violence. However, knives do not persuade their users to buy as many knives as they can, they do not incentivize manipulating others to do so too, nor do knives inherently encourage violence. The exact opposite is true for crypto"currencies" because these are multi-level marketing pyramid schemes. As soon as one joins the Crypto Cult one benefits from recruiting new members—often by indoctrination and/or demagoguery.
  
  @arsCynic Newsflash: any currency under the Sun works like that. And stocks. And options. And any other form of speculative wealth.
  And most of wealth on Earth is just that - speculative. The gold standard was abolished long time ago, and, some might say it's for the better. Look it up.
  Yeah, that paper in your pocket isn't based on anything tangible. It's just paper we agree is valuable. It's not real in the same way a knife is.
  Crypto is just a little bit more open about it. It's just lines of math we agree are valuable.
  And scams have existed in traditional currencies long before cryptocurrency. Same as currency trading, aka "encouraging you to buy more if it".
  So, if you want to hate on anything, hate on a concept of currency and speculative wealth in general. Cryptocurrency is just the latest form of it.
  And, frankly, it's just useful for avoiding unfair shit like international sanctions aka some fat cats deciding to bar me from donating or receiving funds
  @CaptainBasculin
  
  This statement have the following fallacies:
  Straw man.
  Appeal to emotion.
  Ad hominem.
  Cherry picking.
  Not true Scotsman.
  Hasty generalization.
  Begging the question.
  False dilemma.
  
  Unfortunately that's true for most of them. I believe that monero is the difference though, it is actually used as a currency, not as an investment vehicle

All of this existed (except the bit about nazi coins) already. There's a legitimate use for crypto, to support something you use and (probably) enjoy, and you want them to remove it to set a good example?
- "There’s a legitimate use for crypto, to support something you use and (probably) enjoy, and you want them to remove it to set a good example?"
  Of course they should remove it, for it is the moral thing to do. The only legitimate use is donating to entities who have their access to a bank account removed, e.g., whistle blowers, Z-Library, et cetera. In any other case it is an unethical instrument that brings out the worst in humanity.
  "All of this existed (except the bit about nazi coins) already."
  Whataboutism fallacy.

Decentralisation take different form and they seems to only accept 3 established cryptocurrency, I don't think this set a bad example.

I use monero, and I donate to projects in monero.
I don't want to start a relationship with those I donate to, I want to drop money in the pot and walk away. I don't want followup emails, I don't want to be on a donor list, I don't want call to action phone calls.
Every other form of transaction starts a permanent relationship. I don't like that
- Huh? Since when does donating with a cc start a relationship? Just don’t sign up for emails
  
  donate.wikimedia.org as an example, requires a email address, and their policy is
  We do not sell or trade your information to anyone. By donating, you agree to share your personal information with the Wikimedia Foundation, the nonprofit organization that hosts Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects, and its service providers pursuant to our donor policy. Wikimedia Foundation and its service providers are located in the United States and in other countries whose privacy laws may not be equivalent to your own. For more information please read our donor policy.
  they keep all of the personal info, so yes, it very much starts a relationship with them.
  In order to donate with traditional systems, you have to dox yourself

I don't think Lemmy accepts pump-dump or nazi cryptos.
More likely they would accept some of the most famous and established ones. Like them more or like them less, but I don't see reason to ban them. It's not like paypal or any bank are angels.

32 comments