Skip Navigation
No Stupid Questions @lemmy.world
entity @reddthat.com

Am I a jerk for telling my son he should find another dream (career)?

I have a 16-year-old son. I'm in my early 30s (had him very young) and a professional footballer. My son also dreams of becoming a successful footballer (he's been playing since he was 6), but he's just... not great. He's good, but not great - and in this extremely competitive industry you need to be at least great in order to even stand a chance. So I told him, as someone who's been doing this for a very, very long time & is active in this sphere, that he should find another, more attainable dream. He took it as me not believing in him, but I'm just objective and realistic.

127 comments

  • Eh, yeah, a bit of a jerk.

    It's not the facts that matter, it's how you deliver them. If you don't focus on what the kid doesn't have, and focus on what they'd have to do to make it, you'd get the same thing done.

    If you add in that they're expected, while still under your responsibility, to also work towards a secondary goal that's within reach without needing a ton of luck on top of talent, you set them up to both work on their dream and have a realistic fallback plan.

    Doesn't really matter what it is, when the kid's dream is one that they can't make it purely by working at it, it's our job to prepare them for the possibility of success, no matter how unlikely, as well as presenting reality.

    I partially raised a nephew years ago. He wanted to be a musician or a pro skater. Talented in both (more as a musician), but both of those fields take more than ability to make work. Even skating, which isn't mostly about who you know and what contacts you can make, you gotta bust your ass every single day practicing like a pro does, and start competing. I explained all that, showed him how to find information for himself, and said he still had to make school his first priority until he was an adult.

    Well, turns out he didn't actually like competing, so skating went to the wayside a year or so later.

    He started focusing more on music, and started doing small shows here and there, and liked it. But he did hit that wall where you have to not just hustle, but have the right contacts, or make them. So he switched gears like a lot of creative sorts do and got a job he thought might be interesting in the short term while he worked at music as a secondary.

    He ended up enjoying that job enough that he decided to do music more as a hobby. Still does. He still skates too, and he's almost in his thirties now. He's also starting his own business in the industry he liked, and went to school to get a basic business degree per my advice.

    You don't have to ride their ass, or insist that they abandon a dream. You just have to give them the best advice you can, and let them do their thing as long as they're meeting core necessities along the way.

    It's even perfectly fine to tell them that there's limits to what you'll do and provide while they chase a dream; support doesn't mean you have to let them stay in the basement with no actual source of self support on a practical level. It just means that you give them the room to get there if they can while also navigating regular life.

    Hell, it's perfectly fine to be blunt about their chances of making it at whatever. Telling your kid that he'd have to reach a level of skill that would take more work than realistically possible is fine. Telling him that he's got an incredibly long and impractical road ahead of him if he decides to try is fine. And it's definitely fine to say that he's got to do it on his own merits, without any nepotism or favors involved. You can even give an honest evaluation of his skills and athleticism, though you gotta be gentle with that.

    What never works is telling than that they can't, that it's utterly out of the question and you'll never have their back. That's a recipe for a kid you never get to see as an adult.

    Shit, man, who says you're even right? Get some outside opinions on the kid's skills if you're going to play the heavy and be sure you're right.

  • You should have known that there was nothing to gain by telling him what you did. Kids that age are smart enough to realize that if they aren't being selected to the local all-star team, it's because they're not an all-star. If they go to football camp and they aren't one of the best people at the camp, they'll realize that they're not very likely to go pro. But you decided to make it your business at a time when you didn't need to, and that makes you a jerk.

    You said that you're just being objective and realistic, right, but you decided to tell your son your opinion, and not someone else. If you were actually trying to be objective, you would have told everyone on the team what you thought about their potential. Of course that would be really rude, which is the point.

    What you could have done is what many other people have mentioned in the comments. Something about how there's no guarantee that anyone can make it pro, or how long they'll last if they do, because random injuries can end your career, and the median length of a professional footballer isn't very long anyway, so there's still the rest of life to live.

  • Looking at this with adult eyes, no I don't think you're a jerk. It sounds like you're trying help him see the reality of the situation before it causes him any undue emotional (or financial) suffering. It's not, however, very hard to imagine how from his point of view he might feel like you're being jerk, or maybe a bit hypocritical.

    Is there any way you can get him playing with kids who are good enough to go pro? If he can start playing against people who genuinely have the goods, it's probably not going to take him very long to figure out for himself whether he can keep up or not. And that way you don't have to set yourself up as the bad guy as much, and you can play a more supportive role and be there to guide him to an alternative path once he gets sick of the other kids running circles around him. At least that's how it worked for the couple of kids I knew growing up who were good enough at basketball or American football that they really thought they could go pro. It was playing against people who were the real deal that made them realize they didn't have the shot they thought they did. It was pretty obvious that these other kids had something extra, and were playing on a level my friends felt they were probably never going to reach.

  • I don't think you're a jerk, but I think you've handled this badly and you're using 'objective and realistic' to justify it, but that's just code for not believing in him. Were you great at 16? Or were you merely good enough to get signed and thus benefit from decades of training and coaching that improved you? Do you not believe he will also improve? That's literally what not believing in him means.

    It's one thing to inject some realism, to manage expectations, to encourage him to have a fallback, etc, and quite another to effectively say 'You're shit at this so you should just go get a job' or whatever.

  • When you punish a person for dreaming his dream, don't expect him to thank our forgive you.

    He's right, you don't believe in him, and if he's not great at football even though he's living with a pro, that shows me how little you value him. He could be great but what are you doing to help him get there besides crushing his dreams?

    If you want to salvage this relationship at all you need to apologize and do everything you can to support him. Training, encouragement, the works.

    It's better that he tries to achieve his dream and have to do something else than to have it crushed out of him by his own father.

    • if he’s not great at football even though he’s living with a pro, that shows me how little you value him.

      Some people simple don't have the ability to be good at some things, no matter how hard they work at it, no matter who mentors them. Very, very few people have the ability to be a Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart regardless of what kind of mentorship they have.

      Let me give you a concrete example.

      I've had a major shoulder surgery after tearing the shit out of my supraspinatus and the labrum. The supraspinatus passes through the acromium process on the scapula. The acromium process has roughly three different shapes, which are largely determined by genetics. A type I acromium process is smooth, and allows the spuraspinatus to pass through easily. Type II and type III acromium processes have pronounced 'hook' shapes--type III significantly more so--that make injury to the supraspinatus much more probable. I have a type II acromium process. Had Mary Lou Retton been my mother and coach, and I'd tried to be a gymnast, I would have destroyed both of my shoulders long before I was ever going to be going to nation-level events; the limits of the shape of my scapula would have made success impossible, given that a strong and stable shoulder is required in gymnastics, regardless of sex/gender. I would likewise be unable to be a competitive powerlifter, for much the same reason; working up to a nationally competitive snatch would have also destroyed my shoulders. (And, in point of fact, it was working on push-presses that killed it.)

      People are not a tabula rasa, only needing the proper encouragement to become paragons in a given field.

      • You are suffering from several fallacies.

        1. "Unless you can be the best, it's not worth trying"

        Fortunately, the world doesn't operate this way. There are people who are mediocre, and sometimes poor, at playing football professionally or other professions. Your line of thinking would lead to only one person playing football at a time, the person who is the best at it, and everyone else should give up.

        1. "Meritocracy is real and the only determining factor of success"

        While meritocracy is a nice thought, that the best inevitably rise to the top, it's not necessarily true. Just as there's circumstances that keep talent from succeeding, like financial background, biases against people, and luck, those things also can lift up the less talented. There's many celebrities that aren't as talented at acting as someone stuck in a small town.

        1. "I trust OP's assessment"

        As far as you know, op could be wrong. Maybe the kid plays great and OP is too critical, you don't know. This could be a critical mistake on OP's end, and making the kid give up doesn't help regardless.

        1. "hard work doesn't mean success, innate ability is the only thing that matters"

        If this were true, no one would need to practice anything. You said Mozart succeeded because of his mentoring, but then argue for people having lack of natural talent leading to failure.

        1. "my back story is relevant"

        It was also tempting to throw in the argument of verbosity. But your shoulder injury, or that some people are incapable of physically doing things, isn't relevant. The kid is physically capable of playing football. It's a false equivalence.

        1. "the kid will have the same level of ability at 16 forever"

        You presume that this kid will only have the ability he is at, and that even with training, won't get better. This ties into your belief in natural talent a bit, but it's still pretty foolish to assume professional football players play at the level they did at 16, so it's also foolish to assume that 16 is where this kid will peak.

        1. "the kid achieving the dream is the most important thing here"

        This is where you missed the the bigger picture. There's more on the line than just success at football, there's a whole relationship at stake, and a kid's mental and emotional health.

        So that all said, look at it this way. There's four scenarios that could've taken place, with four factors. Kid gets encouraged, let's shorthand that to E. Kid gets discouraged, D. Kid succeeds at professional football, S. Kid fails at professional football, F.

        ES is obviously the best. Kid gets support, becomes professional football player, everyone's happy.

        EF is disappointing, but salvageable. The kid gets the attitude of not giving up and at least Dad has his back. Maybe he tries something else after not making the cut, and has a great career at something he's able to do, but at least he tried. He's not going to be able to try forever, but he can at least try something new with a solid foundation.

        DS is a tragic hero. Kid gets there but doesn't have a great relationship with Dad. Success is tainted by bitterness, and every win is to prove Dad wrong. Doesn't have a great relationship with Dad, and probably has a lasting issue because of it.

        DF is the worst possible outcome, and at this point it's the most likely. Kid has an even worse issue with Dad, dreams are crushed, and he grows up bitter and resentful. He's taught to not try for anything he's interested in, and lives a life of miserable mediocrity.

        It's my opinion that it's better for parents to encourage their children in their dreams, because the success rate is probably higher and at the very least they get the support they need to try something different. It's almost never a great idea to discourage a child because that leads to resentment and lethargy.

        You aren't saving anyone by telling them to give up. That's a decision they should make on their own. This is even more true for a child who is still developing who they are and how they see the world.

    • This is incredibly bad advice

  • Did you go straight into being a pro footballer? Or did you have back up plans? Like "if this doesn't work out, I'll be an electrician" or something?

    I've never had super lofty goals, but my parents always supported me in what I wanted to do. They never tried to steer me, but they did ask pertinent questions about what I was planning at various points. Probably to hint at bad idea.
    I feel like I could have asked them for money/support at any point for any of my projects/ideas/whatevers, and - after making sure I was serious - would have helped out however they could.
    I have a very unique career at this point, and I am only in this position because of the eclectic experience I have. And it is completely unrelated to my dreams as a kid or what I studied at university.

    Ultimately, he is growing up. He's going to have to make mistakes.
    I'd say you have to be prepared to support him as much as you can in his dream of being a pro footballer.
    Maybe he won't be a pro footballer, but he might get a satisfying career out of being football-adjacent. Medic, science, coaching.
    Or maybe he will try it for 5 years and eventually realise it's not gonna happen, and be an electrician.
    Or maybe he will struggle for 2 years, realise he needs to double down, and make the cut a year later.

    I had a friend when I was growing up that dreamed of being an RAF pilot. Everything he did was around that.
    Due to some unfortunate life circumstances, that dream was ripped away in the space of a week. Completely out of anyone's control, but he could no longer qualify as an RAF pilot.
    He was heartbroken. He's now an engineer/mechanic in the RAF and loves tinkering with cars.

    He shouldn't find another dream.
    But he should be aware that dreams don't always come about. And if this dream doesn't, would he be happy in an adjacent career? Or something else entirely?
    Help him research the backup plan.

  • IMO, maybe a jerk, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think more people need to hear news they don't want to hear from someone they trust.

    What I've told most teens looking at the future post high school is, have more then one career/life goal. When I was in middle school, I thought I wanted to be a professional chef. Only to discover I like cooking. I love cooking for friends/family... I loathed the toxic "professional" setting (especially thanks to Gordan Ramsey, who 20 years ago glamorized being a right jackass in the kitchen, pretending that was acceptable). Now I've worked in IT for nearly 2 decades and what I've done in my field has changed a lot.

    I think lying to him and saying, "You can be anything, you can do anything, you're amazing!!!!" type of parenting is going to lead to problems if/when the plan doesn't work out and they have no fallback. Personally, coddling your kid and lying to them just because it's a short-term positive emotion (or you're afraid of saying the truth), IMO is bad parenting. You're not there to make sure they get the "right feels" or to be their best friend. You prepare them for the real world. Final note: you hear a lot of professional sports players say "I had a deal with my parents that if

    <sport>

    didn't work out, I'd do

    <something else>

    ."

  • I don't think you're a jerk. Your son is 16, more than old enough to handle it. The fact of the matter is that, in professional sports, most young boys are scouted by the time they're his age; if it hasn't happened yet, it probably won't.

    He needs to start planning for a more realistic future, but he's allowed to think you're being too hard on him. You don't have to be responsible for his mistakes if he chooses to make them, you already did your job by telling him to think more realistically.

    Do you think he might be good enough for a foreign league if he works his ass off? Not every basketball player is good enough for the NBA, but a lot are good enough to play in China or Europe, for example. Maybe, if this career is what he really wants, it would help your relationship if you gave him some pointers about playing in a league he might be more competitive in.

    That said, you could also try to see if he might enjoy sports medicine or some other adjacent career, like training. Surely you know what might be a good fit for him outside of being a player, considering your experience. Giving him other options that still allow him to be close to the sport might be a nice way to show him that you still think he can be involved in professional sports in some capacity.

  • The kid is growing up in a World on fire. People his age are screwed.

    Let him do what he wants & just support him.

  • Don't tell him that he can't do something. Let him figure it out on his own.

    • Sometimes you need an honest feedback, and your family should be the first one to hear. It doesn't mean they are right, but it may save you some time.

  • I don't have kids and I don't know anything about sports. If you continue reading after those disclosures, I'll offer a perspective anyway, since you put this out to the internet for comment.

    There isn't really a way you could have put this to your son that would be taken well, it's evidently sensitive for him and despite your intentions it'll feel like a tragic monent. It's just hard news. Whether it's right to break that to him, well I'm not sure but I think maybe you're putting too much emphasis on this one interaction like it was your one shot and there was a definitive right it wrong way to do it. What will matter most is more likely to be what you do generally moving forward. You may have your doubts about his ability in his chosen path and perhaps they're well founded but you can still encourage him and be rooting for him whilst gently suggesting having backup options in times when he appears uncertain. If you consistently do all you can to help in whatever way you can with whatever choices he makes, then if they don't work out and he has to abandon that dream, he'll at least know you supported him all throughout despite your concern and that should count for a lot. If somehow he ends up unexpectedly rocketing to success in football he'll also remember you'd been there all along encouraging and assisting. It's ok to counsel against putting his eggs all in one basket, but just don't push it, you must respect his choice whatever it ends up being and he there to help pick up the pieces if those choices don't make him happy.

    Much like with football fans, you support your team by just showing up to every match and cheering on. Perhaps he didn't like the uncomfortable dose of reality today but so long as you are consistently a positive and helpful force he'll hopefully come to appreciate what you've been trying to do for him.

  • Let him try to aim for it..... As long as he doesn't neglect his education and other opportunities then there's no harm in giving him some years to figure this out himself the hard way.

  • You should support your kid, even if you're not convinced of his chances of making it. Anything else is just going to permanently damage your relationship. The best you can do is make sure he has a plan B. If he's good in school he's well on his way to that, so not much to worry about.

  • You need to have a sit down with him. He's 16 so he should be able to be take in whatever you'll say. Don't degrade him, don't talk down to him or anything.

    But tell him that he has a future ahead of him, whatever it is but futures also have different pathways to choose from. The wrong futures are the kind of futures where no matter how much devotion, ambition and time spent it is to drive towards a particular future, it isn't that path. And that's okay because the world isn't over for him yet. The only thing your son is going to regret the most, is not trying more things while he has the youth and the time to do so.

    That is key, is to try many things and see what really sticks.

  • He'll either come to realize the truth on his own, or prove you wrong. Either way, you should support him.

  • Yes you are, let him try & fail. You should be there to cushion the blow & give him full points for trying.

  • You are not a jerk IMO! But I believe you should have done it somehow different, like tell him to try other things in case football career does not work out for him, or to always think about another career.
    \ and of course what others already said.

127 comments