4d ago

Is there any "not losing" with a psychopath in your apartment?

Recently had to move back to my apartment cause I broke up with my bf. To start MOVING IS IMPOSSIBLE for many reasons, please don't even ask.

Was hoping for a fresh start with the psychopaths who live below me. I did everything possible to gaslight myself into thinking it was all just a big misunderstanding and that there was hope to repair our relations.

Basically the first day, I had ptsd from before. I tried my hardest to tip toe the entire day, and to never walk quickly so that I don't bother them (dress despite hearing them stomping and walking aggressively).

The entire time I am on edge because every time I make the smallest noise they counterattack it, doesn't matter if it's an accident or once per day. So basically my body and mind is always in a state of fight or flight, bracing itself constantly for a reaction.

Even then, I had to listen to them being noisy af. At one point I tried to turn on my tv on THE LOWEST VOLUME and it wasn't in response to anything they did. They immediately but some vibrating device on and it kept buzzing it sounded like a drill but it was just a ceiling vibrator and I recorded it. They stopped since then I think they realized it's too obvious or they could only use the plausible deniability to confuse it with some dude that was renovating for 5 minutes.

After 3 days have passed of living here, I'm realizing there seems to be no winning.

Basically their rules are, that they can make as much noise as they want, but if I make the tiniest noise I will be punished.

Not only that, but they also attack unprovoked. I feel like they are genuinely trying their absolute hardest to get a reaction out of me, it's like their hobby or something. The third day I put my earplugs in, and even when I was COMPLETELY SILENT LYING ON THE COUCH FOR HOURS, they started escalating and they dropped a really heavy object to the point where the whole apartment building vibrated. They also hammer all day at random times including quiet hours but they do it really quietly, to the point where it's legal. Like its enough to drive you literally insane.

They also randomly aggressively stomp and they also do stuff to imitate me. Like if I read something funny and laugh (im not obnoxious) right after they will slam stuff or stomp aggressively. Keep in mind I literally laughed once not like I've been annoying them 24/7.

Now everyone will try to gaslight me but there's a lot more that proves they are doing it on purpose, and I'm NOT delusional or imagining things.

Is there actually nothing I can do? Like I don't even think sueing them would help cause they're not gonna move out.

I just don't get why they're doing it. I'm also worried about them framing me. I feel like most people in the apartment have already turned against me cause I'm the only foreigner who speaks with an accent here.

For example, once I tried going to different floors to see where the sound was coming from, and 2 different people complained immediately and reported me saying I'm "creepy" and "invading their space" and need to stop immediately or they'll call the cops (I was a 26 year old girl at the time)...

They immediately threatened they would have a meeting with me and the property manager and the other 2 people to have a "talk" with me

I just don't know wtf to do anymore and I don't understand why I'm the target of everything

30 comments

Change your thought patterns. Minimise their actions in your mind.
They are not "psychopaths", they are just "idiots".
They do not "counterattack", there is no "attack" from your side. They are just "being a nuisance". Frame all the bumps and thumps as renovations if you want.
When they make a noise, turn UP your tv, just a little, so you can hear it over it. "Gee those renovations of theirs are a bit noisy, maybe I should put in a complaint."
When they rattle the ceiling of their apartment, "Hey it must be time to vacuum, thanks for reminding me. I'll do it now while you're renovating and making noise so it doesn't disturb you too much".
"I hear that plants respond to music so I'm just going to leave some on for Ferris, my pot plant, while I go out shopping for a few hours this morning" - Not too loud, just loud enough for Ferris to enjoy it. If you hear a lot of thumping it must be just them taking the opportunity to renovate while you can't hear them. I do hope they don't damage their ceiling with all that thumping while you're out, oh well.
All that activity on their part takes a lot of energy, your activities take very little. Which one do you think is going to end first?
- I honestly don't know how I can do that. For example this morning they pushed the door against the frame like 4 times, just loudly enough to wake me. also pretty sure it was after quiet hours ended (8am) so it's technically allowed. Plus I can't prove they did it to bother me.
  I've tried turning up my tv before when I used to live here and it just made everything worse to where they woke me up in the middle of the night slamming the doors just enough.. and this was their usual cause their kids wake them so it doesn't affect them negatively
  If I leave music on they'll immediately complain and it'll be obvious I'm doing it to bother them
  They've gone as far to terrorize me psychologically by circling my property (car) outside which I can't prove because what they're doing is technically legal, but they're going around my car and between it. Now they're doing it to other cars too after I reported them so that they have plausible deniability. This doesn't affect them negatively either cause either way they are in the parking lot for at least 1 hour each day with their kids, literally walking the stroller in circles around the parking (they have no life and are too lazy to go elsewhere cause the parking lot is most convenient cause it's all smooth and they can just go in circles)
  
  Your situation sounds like in need of serious hands on action and it will only drain people's empathy and sympathy who can only help you remotely if you continue without getting close help.
  Get witnesses.
  Have people stay in your apartment. They'll be able to tell what you're going through.
  Family members, friends, maybe even someone who does volunteer work.

Make as much noise as you want.
Record the retaliation.
After you have 2 or 3 go to your leasing office.
You have as much right to quiet enjoyment of your apartment as they do.
Probably don't be a dick and make extra noise, but moderately loud TV and normal walking is not an issue.
I'm so sorry

Step one: Document, Document, Document.
Step Two: Did we cover documentation yet?
Step Three: Complain, with documentation, to the apartment management.
Step Four: Document.
Recordings such as video and audio are useful. Just keeping a log of all such interactions can help as well. But, you want to have the documentation to prove your side of things. If things go really sideways and you end up in court, the judge won't give a fuck about what you say, only what you can prove. Be ready to prove your claims. As we say in the DFIR world, "logs or it didn't happen". Then, start complaining to management. And document (keep a written log, you probably won't be able to record) your interactions with management. All logs should include date, time, who you spoke with, what you spoke about and any actions which management said they would take or actions you said you would take. If it's an option, keep your communications with management in email. Both the sending and received emails will be timestamped and the headers will provide a reasonable record showing that the emails were to or from management controlled email servers and addresses. And they log what was talked about quite nicely.
Ultimately, the goal is to move this from being your problem to management's problem. And it's possible that your problem neighbor is also someone else's problem. If management has three tenants all complaining about the same neighbor, they have more impetus to take action against the problem. Of course, this assumes a neutral management, which can be an open question. But, this is likely the least costly way to resolve the issue.

To me it sounds like you may be assigning motives to things that aren't as evil as you perceive. Just live your life and be a normal, respectful level of loud. You're going to hear your neighbors in an apartment. Accept it and move on. Unless it's past quiet hours and affecting your sleep I don't think there's much you can do, practically.
Are they confronting you in person or something? Have they said anything to you or do you just hear noises?
- I lived with someone like op described.
  He was my father in law and I had no other choice than to suck it up for years. When I left home, he transfered his insane behaviour to his own daughter, who eventually went no contact.
  Nobody would believe me, he was so good at making me look like the problematic teenager (good fucking riddance, François).
  Some people ARE motivated into making a living hell for you. I know it is hard to even imagine it, because most of the time we live with (to some extents) reasonable people.
  But these borderline psychos exist and often target those who are hardly believed by others.
  Anyway, my advice to OP is as most said on this thread: document everything, up to the hour of occurrence.
  Edit: forgot that post was about neighbors downstairs and not a roommate
- Clearly didn't read my post
  
  Yes I did, multiple times. The only confrontation I see are people on other floors reporting you for snooping around.
  Does the noise maker below you ever confront you directly? Have they said anything to your face regarding the noise?

First, you should probably lessen with the therapy speak. This is a personal thing but the commodification of therapy is actually a huge problem that we should talk about. But I digress.
Second, maybe clarify this up a little bit? Are these people your roommates? Your upstairs neighbor? Downstairs? Next door? I genuinely don't know who you're talking about.
But (I'm assuming these are your up or downstairs neighbors?) I had a buddy who was in a similar situation where even the microwave beeping would cause the upstairs neighbor to thump on the floor. He just had to complain to the apartment complex a bunch (basically every time it happened, as it happened) and eventually they got it sorted. The upstairs neighbor stopped being annoying and moved out shortly after.
In an apartment you will hear your neighbors and it's unrealistic to expect them to be perfectly silent all the time.
- I live in an apartment. I never hear my neighbours, ever.

Go to the landlord and provide your account of what is happening. Document as much as you can, and stop trying to figure out why they are so upset. You're not going to discover some hidden rational explanation, nor is that your responsibility. Protect yourself.

Girl, get yourself a nice pair of stomping boots and go to town!
Beyond that, know the law and know your rights. They can make noises, it sucks that you can hear them but maybe figure out a new apartment to work towards and move again once you save up if you have to. If there’s a noise ordinance in your town you can record them violating it during quiet hours if that happens. They can’t threaten you physically or verbally, if that happens tell the cops and then inform management.

This may be horrible advise but they are doing this because they can get away with it. You back down everytime they escalate things and they know it. They are afraid of consequences because they stoped the floor vibrator incase they got sued or the police came just not from you.
You need to stop backing down record the noises, get security cameras that record 24/7 if you can and get evidence to give to the landlord or the police.
Better yet get a family member or a friend who doesn't mind conflict to hang out for a few nights a week and have them go and talk to them whenever they pull this bs. After a few times they will back off. It's better to do this yourself but it sounds like you need to work on your confidence before you can do this yourself.

Had this problem at one point with upstairs neighbors who outside of making noise also did other insane shit such as trying to use my ground floor patio as a staging area for furniture they intended to winch up to their 2nd story condo without any consent from myself or the building management because apparently trying to winch a 200 LB armoire over a flimsy railing and denying someone else access to their patio was somehow easier in their minds than riding an elevator with it 1 floor upwards.
Record it, every time it happens and note the date and the time. And then every time it happens, send the documentation to your board/building manager pursuant to whatever noise bylaws you have. Eventually, someone will agree it is an annoyance and then they will get warned, and then when they don't stop, they will get fined.
In my case it did take a fucking year, but because fines at my condo double per infraction, so eventually they were essentially evicted by proxy because the fines were likely into the tens of thousands and they couldn't afford to continue living there the way they were.
The last of the many arguments I heard from them through the ceiling was when they were trying to move out, and between the two of them they couldn't seem to manage carrying a bed frame down their hallway 10 feet without scraping the fucking shit out of their walls and started accusing each other over whose fault it was.
Lastly, look into "Mighty plugs ear plugs". They are the best ones I have ever found, and gave me some respite from the noise. If you feel as though you can't when you sleep because you won't hear the alarm, go look for alarm clocks made for deaf persons that have a vibrating mattress pad. Great combination, you can sleep completely deaf but still wake up on time.

Don't just fucking sit there and take it while reasoning with morons like them. If you have to, get the police involved. If the landlord sucks dick at handling things, like mine are, you'll have to go that route. Enough calls and enough of a background history that is made on these people, the more police will be pressured to do something about it since they don't like having to revisit places or people that are a problem.
- The thing is idk what to do, cause they can claim all the sounds are "normal" or an accident. For example today at around 1230am I heard them screetch their chair extremely loudly and suddenly twice in a row but spaced apart by like a minute. It was most definitely not a normal chair screetching noise as usual throughout the day. Then again they made several banging noises after until about 1am (but I'm worried my phone isn't picking the noises up).
  Them again they woke me at 5am and I could tell they were trying to.
  While yesterday technically I'm not sure the exact time but it was around 8am (end of quiet hour) where they slammed the door into the frame approx 3-4 times just loudly enough to wake me but not loudly enough to prove it was on purpose
  This is all after I tried to be as quiet as possible all day.
  The police here are absolutely worthless and disgraceful
  
  Record evidence.

Go on the offensive, record every sound they make, catalog every interaction ,aggression,etc in a journal.
You live above them, you have the advantage in any sound based battle.
If they make noise record and report and then follow up on each of your reports. Call the leasing office every fucking day until its resolved.

Sounds like everything you try doing to de-escalate things backfires. Consider reversing course and escalate hard. Play pornographic videos loudly (if you know their sexuality, play videos that are not), throw shit around, move furniture as a daily workout, let out orgasmic screams at random, re-enact choice scenes from Stomp! and drown out their retaliatory noises until you are unable to hear them anymore.
If the landlord tries to say anything, play it innocent, do not let on that this is vengeance, say it's just a misunderstanding or that you didn't realize how loud it was. They wanna say it's all you, make it all you and then some. Fight fire with fire. Make them fear you. Make the landlord break the lease if you have one.
The other options is to grey rock them but that's a lot less fun. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#uses
I'm not a professional anything. This is probably horrible advice. Talking to a lawyer might be the better option. Moving might be the best option.

….how thin are your floors? You’re saying they can hear your TV at the lowest volume? I think maybe they’re just inconsiderate dickheads and not doing it to necessarily punish you. Unless your floors really are that thin in which case is there really no hope for moving out? This sounds like torture
- Plus I should mention they're the ones always complaining about everything to the property manager despite being massive hypocritical pieces os
- It's like a shoebox you can hear everything tbh.. it is torture but they should realize it's the apartments fault and not mine. They're not quiet at all either but I don't follow their every move and blackmail them. The crazy removed is literally home all day "getting back at me" for every noise I make

I would agree to complain to a third party. The landlord, and if they don't do anything, try whatever the equivalent of a local government/city council/etc is in your country. Depending on your legal system, this may be a dispute that could be resolved in a civil court if escalating to landlords/councils/etc goes nowhere. And also, clearly there is nothing you can do to stop them from making these noises, so stop trying, and be as loud as you want. They are already being as loud as they want.
Are you the only two households in this block? If not, your neighbours also have neighbours who will be annoyed by the noise. You could lodge a collective complaint to the aforementioned authorities, or you could as a group confront these neighbours, if you don't expect them to be violent/armed. By "confront" I mean knocking on their door and talking to them about it directly, to be clear.
- I tried speaking to other neighbours and as I said everyone already seems to have been turned against me and think that I am the one making the noise.
  I tried speaking to the property manager about a basic issue, not even this, and hr just interrupted me, spoke over me, argued with me over shit thats not true, dismissed me and without saying it told me he can't help me
  
  In that case I suggest documenting things to prove it's not you making the noise, and escalate to local government/council/etc

the property manager meeting sounds like your best bet

It sounds like you have a psycho living beneath you and they have one above them.

It’s an apt: shared walls, shared noise. The only way to avoid this is to move into a home that doesn’t have shared walls and even then you’ll have noisy neighbors.
Be as loud as you need to be within reason.
Don't worry about how loud they are, and ignore any retaliation until someone talks to you about your noise levels.
Consider wearing slippers indoors.
Consider buying a rug.
- There is such a thing as properly insulated apartments (eerily so, btw, I've been impressed)

30 comments