1y ago

[Rant] I swear to fucking god. Windows is harder to use than Linux. Have any of you ever USED Windows lately? Holy fuck.

I'm helping a family member build a pc. He wanted to use Windows because "Linux can't play games" despite me having a perfectly good gaming laptop running Linux that runs all my games, even graphically intensive ones.

2 days later, no game has been played yet. We can't even get steam to start. I even installed Arch on a sata ssd I donated just to verify the pc parts actually work (took less than an hour). It took 1 and a half days to even get the Windows 11 installer to get past like the 3rd screen.

Fucking fuck. Dealing with all this fucking bullshit is far worse than not being able to play a few trashy anticheat pay 2 win games. The anti Linux circlejerk is real.

394 comments

Can't tell if this is a shitpost or not
- There's more linux circlejerk or "windows bad" posts in this community than actual useful ones.
  
  Of all the circlejerks this one is really silly though. You can complain about so many fucking things about Windows but Windows 11 is really damn easy to install and setup and I'm pretty sure you can do it in 30 mins.
  The OP's whining about Linux playing all the games feels like bait to me. Linux just doesn't run every game that Windows does and it's not about how graphically intense it is.
- Me neither. Linux is my main Operating System but... We can't generalize one Windows experience just like we can't generalize one Linux experience.
  
  It's a lot easier to do the former than the latter. Windows fixes a lot of things about the experience, but maybe not the exact flavoring / theming.
  Linux you can't say anything about the experience besides sweeping generalizations by distro.
  
  I agree with this. I use Linux exclusively at home, but for work I have a windows laptop. It’s really not that bad. I for sure don’t like it as much, but it isn’t atrocious.
- Linux users on Lemmy: People who don't run Linux are just bad with computers and shouldn't be using a computer at all!
  Also Linux users on Lemmy: Anyone else is unable to install windows from scratch?
  😘👌
  
  Linux users on Lemmy: People who don't run Linux are just bad with computers and shouldn't be using a computer at all!
  I remember being part of these exact same conversations on other message boards at least 15 years ago.
  We're all going around in circles here as history repeats itself.
- It has to be, windows makes it super easy to install so they can get your data faster.
  
  Jokes on them. I
- I have found windows is easier to install every time. This is just another windows bad linux good post. Windows has so many issues, but installation is not one of them. Even my 10 year old cousin installs it fine.
- OP:
  I run Arch btw
- @SloganLessons @PeterPoopshit
  Yeah, but by then the "good" version will be available - Windows 12.
  Alternatively, if your needs could be met by another os e.g. Linux or MacOS then why not migrate to them?
  
  Windows 12 will be a massive hit, just like google stadia.
- In my experience, installation of Win or Lin has been pretty easy. Lin has less options to opt out of (I like) than windows, but windows set everything up just fine. The only time I ever had issues on either is if I try to install without an active ether net connected. If I don't have the os update during install, I run into random driver issues on either os.
- Yeah, I genuinely do not understand having used Windows, Linux, and MacOS. They are making it sound like it's trying to decipher some unknown language. Even a quick YouTube would have solved how to install a exe.
- Windows bad, upvotes to the left

People have trouble installing Windows? You enter a license key and click next a couple times.
- You missed the part where you either sign in with your Microsoft account or cut your Internet, remove the webcam, fake your own death, and do the secret tap code in the bios to just have the OS without letting Microsoft into your butthole.
  
  Windows 11 doesn't force you do any of that. Just skip the sign in. Your points were valid in 8/10 era but no more.
  
  I just use the Konami code and it bypasses so that. ¯(ツ)_/¯
- Try doing it on a b650 motherboard that's so new the windows installer doesn't even have the correct ahci drivers
  
  I bought a Ryzen 7 7800X3D and an Asrock X670E, I was upgrading and just transferred my Windows install but still.... No issues.
  I'm no huge fan of Windows, but it sounds like you had (No offense) PEBKAC errors.
- Sorry, could you repeat that? Slower, if possible
  
  People have trouble installing Windows? You enter a license key and click next a couple times.
  
  They’re wrong, of course.
  You don’t have to enter a license key.
- Same on many linux distros but without having to enter a license key
- Nah you have to spend at least an hour researching how to not create an account (spoiler: ther is no option, you just have to not connect it to the internet)
- It's a joke post. Which makes it extra funny, and quite sad, how many of the comment seem to think it's serious and are unironically chiming in with complaints.
  OPs username is "Peter Poopshit", I wouldn't take anything they post seriously.
  
  I saw SatansMaggotyShitFart or something like that making normal conversation yesterday.
  
  Several people thinking this post is too stupid to possibly be real because they think linux users are smart says everything you need to know about this community.

I cant tell if people in this thread are trolls, ultra elite linux shills, or just people incapable of following simple instructions...
Like I get it, windows bad or w/e... But to act like it takes longer than an hour or two to install it, let alone 2 whole fucking days is just asinine.
Imagine having enough of a skill issue that it takes you 2 days to install Windows OS. The OS that idiot proofs itself by literally holding your hand on every option and walks you through itself to install.
Im not even joking, I re-install and have installed windows the past few years multiple times on personal devices for myself and my family and friends and even do it for professional devices and servers for my job. It is brain dead easy, enough that my tech illiterate grandparents managed to re-install it before I could make the drive to meet them and do it for them... I can't take this OP or anyone else seriously if they can manage to install a linux based OS but somehow have 2 days worth of trouble with Windows OS...
- I was going to say... If it takes you literally 1.5 days to simply install and after 2 days you can't even launch Steam? I'm sorry, but you have extraordinarily fucked up. Whatever the fuck is happening there is not on Windows. OP, I would love to understand what you were seeing or what was happening. And I also wonder if you are using an actual Windows OS image, or what you tinkered with or ran scripts on to maybe "clean Windows up". Unfortunately so many of those scripts are also fucking notorious for breaking some Windows functionality, like the Xbox games and what not.
  Don't get me wrong. Windows is becoming worse and worse in both features and performance (AI powered file recommendations in my start menu? get the fuck outta here). But I'm sorry, this complaint in the OP is not it.
  
  I'm sympathetic to a Windows install taking days (I've been there), but you're right that it's not Windows' fault. It's always some 10 year-old hardware with dodgy or no-longer-supported drivers. Maybe you could make an argument that it's partly Windows' fault because they push driver support onto the hardware vendors, rather than use Linux' model of having the kernel developers maintain them.
- OP is just wanting to shit on Windows because this is a Linux community.
- 100%
  Lot of problems with the directions windows has gone or is going (cortana finally gone), but people need to chill if they think the OS is unusable or something.
  Anecdotally I'm hoping SteamOS continues to progress how it has so there are even more reasons to not depend on Windows.
  
  Yo I forgot about SteamOS! I need to check in on that, thanks for reminding me!
- Yes. I have done so many installs of Windows 10 LTSC in the last few years and even on HDD it doesn't take that much time.
  This is a legit troll post. Despite Linux being better in some aspects, Windows totally steamrolls Linux on being easy to install.
  Heck W10 LTSC has been super smooth and stable for me for the past 2 years on my work machine which I tend to use more than my Personal Laptop which runs Manjaro.

ROFL windows is the easiest thing ever to install. Same with steam.
Sounds like either you’re terrible with computers or you have some serious hardware issues.
Blaming it solely on windows is a joke.
- @Coreidan @PeterPoopshit ah, can you install windows without a microsoft-cloud account nowadays ? Please tell me how.
  
  Yes, I've set up several work computers without internet. You can make a local account on set-up.
  
  Don't give it internet access during setup.
  
  It's kinda funny how many people have no problem at all with a cloud account on their phone but get a mild stroke when Windows asks them to create a Microsoft account.
  
  When it asks you for an email use "no@email.com" and use a random string of characters for the password. Congrats, you can now use a local account on setup.
- Sounds like you have never installed linux
  
  I have installed many Linux distributions. What is your point?
  If you’re trying to convince me that windows is more complicated to install then it’s pretty clear you’ve never installed windows.
  At this point in the game neither Linux or windows requires more then a few mouse clicks to install their OS.
  If you’re having trouble with either then you’re doing something very very wrong or using wrong/bad hardware.
  
  Well... Not Arch
- Have you actually installed Windows in the last decade? I mean from scratch, mind you.
  
  Yes, it's part of my job, it's super easy, barely an inconvenience.
  
  It was a few clicks and leaving my laptop AFK to install. The only semi inconvenient part was finding a way around not using a Microsoft account. Other than that, it's about as brainless of an installer as it gets. My dog could do it with direction from me.
  
  It takes like 15 minutes to go from bare metal to login. I built my own PC in March and installed Windows from scratch from a USB drive.
  
  @winterayars @Coreidan yep did it the other day just spam no and your done in 10 mins. obvs Linux is easier than that these days but op is overreacting or stupid
  
  Yes, multiple times. It usually go this way:
  the installer starts
  I click on next a few times
  it asks the key
  next
  next
  nextnextnextnext
  the desktop shows up about 20-30 mins later
  It's literally a nightmare.
  
  Yes, regularly.
  
  Not op. I installed windows 10 on my custom built desktop and my kids custom built desktop, on VM, etc. Have not had a problem and it was pretty simple overall. I'm sure some folks do have issues, though. Shit happens. Is windows 11 shittier for install? I've never had the desire to try :)
  I've also installed various Linux distros on the above and a few other computers (Mint, Nobara, Fedora). Aside from Mint not working with my AMD RX 6600, no problems there either, really. And these distros installed easily.
  Again, ymmv. I knew Mint would probably fail because the 5.19 kernel does not seem to like my GPU. That's why I switched to Nobara in the first place (iirc the 6.x kernel wasn't available at the time)

ROFL, I like Linux, but if you can't install windows 11 easily. The problem isn't win11...

Windows has it's serious flaws, and I would never willingly go back to it at this point, but the installer is too hard? This sounds like a you-issue rather than a Windows one.
- Compared to same linux distros, it is.

Nice bait I guess. Windows may have bad things, but I have no idea what you're talking about here

Sounds like a skill issue on your behalf.

it feels like i'm still in /g/ with these types of posts
you went on a tirade about "windows bad, linux (aRcH btW!!!) best" without giving us any relevant information to help you with your "issue", other than the fact that you can game on your linux gaming laptop. you should've told that to your family member to at least try and convince them that gaming on linux is acceptable/good, maybe try to educate them about wine/proton and how performance may not be as good and some minor configurations may be needed, but that you could make it work. But nope.
also seriously, i mainly use linux myself, and i know this is a linux community, but we all know that windows "just works". it is also literally just a point and click on a gui even on the installer, it's that easy. reflash/rewrite the iso, or get another iso. that is my guess as to what you're fucking up
- This has got to be bait from that user. The third screen is like the keyboard screen. What the heck are they even talking about. 36 hours to still be in the first three screens.
- I want to preface this with noting that I 99% agree with you on this, but to be fair Windows "just works" right up until it doesn't.
  What got me off Windows was how frequently all the UWP-powered system apps (like Screenshot Tool, Calculator, etc.) and even core stuff like Explorer would just have some key functionality just break randomly.
  Not implying that programs on Linux don't also just randomly shit themselves, but to pretend that Windows just works is a bit silly.

Definitely a skill issue at play here.
- Yeah their K/D must be terrible in windows.
- I don't think "skill" is the right word here. It's more of a basic competence issue.

These "Windows bad" posts are the worst thing in the Linux community. I run Windows on my desktop because Games are just far easier and usually run better, and Windows works perfectly fine.
- Games just run on my Linux laptop these days. I stopped checking winehq a long time ago.
  
  Yep, most games run fine. But I do still have to check if the anti-cheat supports Linux.
  
  ProtonDB is the first place I go before buying a game, most of the time games work, but there's a few occasions where I have to change some configurations.
  
  I don't have any issues with performance, just with anticheat not being compatible with my most played games.
  
  I do tend to check protondb, people tend to have figured out the best options for the most stable performance for a lot of games.
- So does linux

Sounds like the problem was between the keyboard and chair.

Bruh if you can't figure out Windows then just give up.

How the fuck does anybody have trouble running Windows these days?

Lol come on dude it's not that hard.

Yeah, it's a fricken nightmare... Windows is ok in a well managed corporate setup where all the crap is uninstalled
I bought a laptop recently which came with Windows. I was going to setup dual boot because I need Office365 for work... but in the end I just gave up, deleted windows and installed Ubuntu.
I hear lots of people used to using Windows saying "I tried Linux and couldn't get anything to work"... it's not that I don't believe them, but I really struggle to understand it. Windows is so much worse!
- I tend to get the kind of Linux issues nobody believes.
  Currently my installation "works" but none of the text mode boot up stuff displays at all so I have to dig out a spare screen if it gets stuck there.
  Another screen I could never get the display scaling to work no matter what I did - I tried swapping cables, editing the resolution manually, different drivers, different distros, everything I could think of but it would always output 640x480 native pixels unscaled as a tiny square in the middle of the screen.
  Windows gives me issues but it usually just works with every screen+gpu combination.
  
  What graphics card do you use, and also what kind of cable? Sometimes when using dvi in hdmi compat mode it cannot read the displays information and defaults to rendering with basic vesa drivers, or just defaulting to the smallest size to at least make sure that you have a picture
- It's a completely different set of problems with both systems. Problems with Linux are usually related to missing drivers, or the whole mess with having 40 kinds of software stores (and it's 2023 and you still can't update stuff like discord without running a command on the terminal).
  Problems with windows are usually things like "if I join a call my phones stop playing stereo music", or "there's 50 different programs launching on system startup and it takes 5 minutes to even display my wallpaper".
  Folks get used to one of them eventually but when switching to the other all they think of is "I didn't have to deal with this sort of thing there"
- Is that a thing still? The last 3 companies I’ve worked for didn’t even remove the Xbox apps from windows. The most I’ve seen is disabling the windows store so installing Microsoft terminal and WSL becomes more difficult.
- Laypeople can and do have problems on Linux, sometimes due to defects or deficiencies, other times of their own making. For people beyond layfolk however, Linux is infinitely easier to troubleshoot and manage. I just came off such a troubleshooting spree I finished on my new corp Ubuntu workstation that would randomly go black screen and wouldn't recover without a reset. Without information on the web, I was able to track down the culprit and come up with a workaround. If that happened to me on Windows:
- Why, were you too stupid to configure dual boot? I don't imagine you're having a better time with Linux. This is not hard stuff.

This is trolling or the actual issue is an PEBKAC issue.
Windows has fallen far from grace in my opinion, but it is not the incompetent smoldering trash fire you are describing. You guys are doing something wrong.
- Three options.
  PEBKAC in the extreme
  Failing hardware causing serious software issues
  Creative writing exercise.

I thought this would be a post complaining about the usablility of windows as a desktop, not the one thing windows does right...

Do you struggle dressing yourself too? Lol

I'm upvoting this because it's hilarious, but on a serious note, installing windows is so easy my granny could do it.
The only thing, and I assume that's where you struggled, is sometimes the formatting of the hd doesn't want to work. In that case, a quick google will help you out, but also just format it quickly with diskpart and continue the installation.

That's the shittiest shitpost ever.

I've used Linux exclusively at home for the last 10 years. We deploy Windows where I work. This is not normal. Despite my disdain for Microsoft, the setup process on Windows is straight forward and easy. It's one of the things Microsoft gets right.
This idea of OS superiority is pointless. Every major OS has things it does better than the others. We should look at those things to improve Linux in areas where it lags behind.
- So I install windows all the time for work but I noticed something. We found an old laptop running windows 7. It has an inferior CPU, slower ram compared to our windows 10 and windows 11 systems. The only thing similar is both use integrated graphics.
  The 7, which does struggle to boot, is far more responsive than our enterprise 10 and 11 systems after startup. The search function works much better on the 7. I wasn't served a single ad or suggestion on the 7.
  This is mostly an observation and it's completely anecdotal, I just enjoyed the 7 more than the modern windows experience. In fact it felt closer to my Steam Deck which has now pushed me over to just dumping windows at home and trying to go Linux only.
  
  Windows 7 was fantastic. It was the last windows OS I liked. My work is almost exclusively like 10 year old i3 systems that originally ran fine on 7 but after they were updated to 10 are sluggish and barely work.
  Windows 7 had basically no bloat, functional search in the start menu, and looked rather nice. 10 is an infested dog by comparison.
- Audio still

What were you doing? The windows 11 install is so simple compared to even the windows 7 one. Where you messing with things to bypass the Microsoft login or something?
- Windows has a hell of time with certain hardware, and with the introduction of windows 10 they tried getting you to login to a microsoft account at every turn, it became a huge hassle since half the time I had shitty internet that would drop out for hours at a time. While windows can be easier to use, I break those installations constantly and have to reinstall frequently. I've been using the same /home directory on my arch install for the past 5 years and have only had to reinstall when my new laptop had a smaller NVME drive than the raid 1-0 setup I used before it
  
  Windows 11 also does that. You have to jump to the command line and do some stuff mid-install to get it to install without an internet connection. Boggles the mind
- No, its a b650 motherboard and the windows installer didn't even have the right nvme ahci drivers for it. I tried about 8 different flash drives and fat32,exfat and ntfs until I found one that the windows installer would actually install the drivers with.
  
  Makes sense. The problems I've typically run into on Windows is always driver related. Since manufacturers are responsible for drivers, your are dependent on good, up to date drivers.
  I'll 100% agree, that (depending on distro) Linux can be much easier to install… if there are good open source drivers for all your hardware.
  I haven't tried Windows 11, because why, but even when everything has to to date and good manufacturer supplied drivers, there is a step in the Windows install where you have to visit every component manufacturer's individualn website to get the latest drivers, and then install them all one at a time.
  Flip side though, I remember poor drivers for Broadcom WiFi adapters under Linux, and that was a nightmare.

Every day on two machines, I dunno, it's piss-easy. In fact that's my one big argument for Windows ,that stuff that works out of the box.
- Yep, if you can daily any linux distro but struggle to install Windows it's an attitude issue. Windows 11 is arguably the most user friendly OS ever made.
- It is surprisingly good at finding generic drivers. First time I actually had to get drivers manually for a printer in years was MacOS Ventura. And then for an old PC I had to get some custom drivers that worked on newer kernel for an old Nvidia card due to the generic one causing freezing.

It's not just P2W games that don't have anticheat support, id keep windows for warzone alone but there are a few more that don't work with proton because of anticheat software. Unfortunately mostly the games I play.
How the fuck are you having this much trouble? I mean there's some really easy distros out there like Nobara but if you can install Arch how the fuck have you failed to install windows? Just make a windows 10 bootable and follow the on screen instructions until you're in the desktop.

Yes, it's bad
If you're on the happy path all is well. The smoothest shit ever. If you turn onto the unhappy path.. oh boy. Helpful logs? Useful community posts from SMEs? Meh no. Best I can do is a plate of irrelevant copy-pasta on a malware-ridden site, SEOd to the top.

I have Linux on my laptop but I have a Windows gaming PC and I'm honestly trying to figure out how could you not get steam to start? Never had an issue with that before..

How did you not get a usable Windows desktop in 2 days?! Drivers?

@PeterPoopshit this has to be a shitpost this person is either extremely stupid or shitposting. windows install takes 15 mins worst case. no trh install is not great because you sit there for 10 minutes hitting no no no but its not hard
- On some linux distros the only thing you have to press is "yes". Sounds easier to me than having to press "no" for 10 minutes

Which edition are you trying to install? Are you using an up-to-date ISO?
I've only ever used the business edition, and it's never given me any trouble.
Head over to the tools section in the megathread at !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Grab a clean business editon ISO from one of the listed sources.
Create an installation flash drive using rufus.
Make sure all the legacy CSM crap is disabled in BIOS.
Boot off the flash drive and run the installer.
When you get prompted to sign in with a Microsoft account click "Domain join instead" (or something similar).
Create a normal account but leave the password field blank (to avoid having to enter security questions).
After you finish the setup and get into Windows, hit Ctrl+Alt+Delete and set a password.
(optional) Go into settings and either enter your legally obtained key to activate Windows (it should automagically recombobulate itself into a matching editon) or read through the aforementioned tools section for an alternative 🏴‍☠️
???
~~PROFIT~~ You've installed Windows.
- That does indeed sound intuitive.
- Grab a clean business editon ISO
  I haven't used windows in a long time, but when I was tinkering with windows LTSC IoT was the recommended ISO because of no bloat. Is this still the recommendation or is there a better version?
  
  Latest LTSC is still on Windows 10 and the next one won't be out till mid 2024.
  I have it running without issue on some machines - not sure how it is for gaming though...
  Like it'll probably run most things but maybe there'll be a loss in performance?
- That sounds like a lot of trouble lol

It is not harder, windows is just playing find the config toggles with its users. it's like easter all year long.

Strange. I install windows 11 at least 3 times a week at work, it takes about 5 mins and is useable out the box.
Perhaps you could try RevoOS
- If you call popups, annoying apps "usable" then it is.
  I at least spend a day to make it less annoying.
  
  Pop ups? Huh? Sounds like you need an ad blocker for your browser then.
  
  look into an LTSC build or Tiny10
  instead of removing things, you'll be adding them
  
  What pop ups?
  
  wholeheartedly unpleasant but "usable"
- @fox2263 @PeterPoopshit LOL, really 5 minutes??? LOL, perhaps by restoring an image, but installing ? LOL
  
  Installing from an nvme ssd usb drive to an nvme internal ssd, yeah. And then autopilot takes over.

I would reccommend you to not install W11, but install W10 instead. It's more stable with all sorts of hardware.
Also this could indicate an issue with the drive you're going to install the OS on. Could you run some checks on the disk itself for failed sectors?
- It worked fine on Arch. I finally found a flash drive and filesystem combination that the windows installer would both see and install when I put the manufacturer's Windows 11 64 bit ahci drivers on. It was a scandisk usb 3.0 mini thumb drive and ntfs in case anyone was wondering. I have 7 other usb flash drives at my disposal, most of them I could see but not install the drivers and I tried ntfs, exfat and fat32 before giving up on each flash drive.

Dude windows works like a charm for me unless I start fucking with the drivers I really hope that fixes itself somehow because I do think windows is a pretty decent os and it sucks that it's having that big of an issue
- I'm all for using Linux, and I'm considering moving my desktop over from Win 10, but I've never had any issues with the install of Windows. If it's any level of modern hardware, it should mostly work out of the box.
  These kinds of rants really trip my BS detector, because it's just not that complicated. If you can handle Linux but can't manage to even install Windows, I have a lot of questions.
  
  Windows 10 and 11 pretty much work in any hardware I've used. The last time I had driver issues was on windows 7, like 10 years ago.
  These people are one of these 2: either they're being dishonest, or they are admitting they don't know how to install an OS that holds your hand so much that even my grandma could do it.
  
  @UIDZero
  original article was about laptop. and i can think of a few reasons why it wouldn't work
  @GuyFi

It's about familiarity. I didn't know how to install drivers on Windows. I searched and didn't see anything in the settings about firmware updates. I was stumped.
My friend comes over and tells me I have to go to the manufacturer website to download drivers and it was like going back in time.

This thread has to be a bait

I know this is a Linux /c/ but maybe youre just not educated in windows is all. I use Mac windows and Linux and can play games on them all. I don't find any of them hard to use but again I make it a point to use them all so I don't ever have to be apart of the communitys that hate one or the other. I like them all it's fun.

Its not that bad but the most time you spend on installation is opting out of services. This takes up like 75% of the install time :D
- Then come the update/reboot cycles, the drivers then fetching your softwares from their genuine websites and installing them.
  
  You know windows has terminal too, right?

I'm a Windows user at home because there are two games that aren't supported on Linux. However I run Linux on a second SSD as i hope to move away from Windows one day.
Windows just works. When I install Linux it all looks great until I start to use it and find small issues. Like my Yubikey doesn't work so I can't get into certain websites. Once I install another app I get that working and then spend an hour trying to get the Bitwarden desktop client to work. I result in a forum post before being told that security keys are not supported by the application and Linux. It's a Windows only feature currently.
Videos in Firefox lag. I've done nothing special with the OS, this is Firefox that is installed with the OS. I'm yet to fix this but also yet to investigate the issue.
Every time I use Linux I first have to fix things to get it working. I've never had this with Windows. I'm sure people will down vote me to hell, with this being a Linux community, but that's just my experience.
- I had the same issue than you with my internet browser and VLC (or other media players). I thought it was due to missing codecs. But even after reinstalling all of them, I got lags on video.
  Now, i use flatpak for my internet browser and for VLC, everything works just fine.

I get this feeling, but with iOS. Oh, I want to save a picture I found on the internet and message it. It's incredibly unintuitive to me and I feel like a grandma, even though on any other platform it would be easy.
- Not to discredit your experience but I don't find long pressing the image (or whatever other content), then pressing share and whatever app you want to share with hard to find or remember.
  
  The problem is that using the share button will often just copy the link, not the image. I haven't used iOS in multiple years but I remember that being a problem. That being said, the last time I used iOS the files app hadn't been added yet so idk
- iOS is pretty unintuitive. There’s lots of hidden gestures you have to memorize to get around. I missed androids back button since it always worked, whereas in iOS every app implements it differently. Is there an X in the upper right? A Close in the upper left? Do I swipe down? Swipe left? Etc. even apples built in apps are not consistent.

At that point, I think it's fair to send said family member to Geek Squad and explain that you can't invest any more time in the project.

Meanwhile, I invested a solid 30hrs over 2 weeks of troubleshooting, researching, and getting help from users in order to have 4k120 on Fedora, something that supposedly works for my configuration. And no worky.
I really really wanted 2023 to be the year I finally migrated, but basic functionality being inexplicably broken just isn't it.
- NVIDIA? My condolences, good news though is that open-source NVIDIA drivers will be coming over the years (NVK and the open-source kernel packages), so expect it to get better.
  
  I've never understood the issues people have with Nvidia on Linux.
  I've got a 3080, powering 3 monitors, using EdeavourOS, running the closed-source drivers. Genuinely zero issues so far, and yet everytime I mention it I get a bunch of alleged know-it-alls telling me how terrible my experience should be lol.
  
  Maybe its just marketing to give those hope, that ditched Nvidia because of closed sourced drivers.
- 4k120 must be really important for you if you are willing to sacrifice all your privacy and security for it

I'd say that stuff like this happens less often on windows, but it's also worse when it does because you have fewer resources to fix problems when you do run into them

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gathering that you're a bit upset.

I'm normally a calm guy but anything involving windows makes me so frustrated. The thing doesn't even install without a wifi connection, and once you have been forced by Microsoft to provide your private, sensitive wifi details to their corporate shit cloud, you have like 20 dialog boxes to click where they want to fuck you over as much as possible.
Now after using Linux for so long, I can't even stand the way Microsoft or Google write to us in their services. The language is so incredibly lame.
- It's shitty that they make you do this, but you can actually install windows fine without a network connection by using Shift+F10 to open a command prompt during the startup flow, then typing oobe\bypassnro, which will restart the startup flow with a new option to setup without wifi.

It's not Windows, it's either a firmware or hardware issue. Windows installs very quickly actually, nowadays, but of course it's full of ad tracking etc.
Remove the graphics card and any other extras. Just start with the motherboard, power supply, RAM and hard drive. Try install it. It should work. If not, it may be a motherboard issue. You may have to boot into the bios and see if the firmware can be updated, check secure boot, UEFI etc.
Reset the bios to factory and try again.
Once windows is installed. Install the graphics card driver, then shut it down, install the card, move the HDMI over to the card and boot. It should work.
- OP claims to have successfully installed arch to confirm it's not a hardware issue fwiw
  
  This has big "the calculator isn't working" energy.
  No sir, the calculator is working fine. The problem is somewhere between the chair and the keyboard.
  
  Doesn't mean it's not a hardware issue, just means they aren't running into it in their Arch install. But honestly this is probably just a bunch of bull.
  
  Then it must be bios. That's where I'd be checking.

Avoiding expressions like "fucking god", "fucking fuck", "fucking bullshit", would help your argument.
While I agree with the premise, that Windows is indeed more untidy, clunky and counterintuitive than GNOME and KDE Plasma, still it is not harder to install.
- Fuck that fucking fuck. Don't you fucking dare to fuck with my fucks!
  That being said, OP is obviously an idiot/troll.
- Hey cut OP some slack, they just learned those words from the older kids at school.

People think window is easier because that's what they are used to. If all schools in a city were to suddenly drop windows and switch to linux you would see microsoft coming at them with donations and offering free deals. It already happened more than once.
- where has this happenef
  
  Munich

Least offensive linux user

I'm still using Windows on my gaming rig, and Pop on my laptop, and each have their own quirks.

Unless you are literally removed I can't see how you can have that much trouble with windows.
- Right? Steam installs within one click on all my windows PC's and running games is again, a click away. Windows 11 installed on my Surface 7 Pro within 30 mins.

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Yes, it's bad