Pay with Palm
I can only see this going into a very dystopian path. Based on their actions, I don't trust these companies, their security practices, nor their privacy policies. Why would I give them my biometrics? And my full palm, at that!? Hell no!
Shit no! You know what you canโt change if/when they inevitably leak your data? Your fucking hand.
I've got a bucket of golf balls and a 12ft 2x4 that says otherwise
Damn, that's a deep cut type of joke, I love it!
Uhh. Have you seen men in black? /s
One scar away from losing access to your ability to pay โฆ
Biometrics can not really be changed. Except maybe through time or trauma (i.e. age or injury). They can be used to uniquely(?) identify a person - except maybe twins - at the expense of anonymity, which has it's own set of problems.
But because they can not easily be changed they're a terrible security feature. Once they leak, they're unusable and you're hosed. You can't issue a new palm print for your bank account like you could a new chip card and password.
Also, just because you waved your hand over a scanner does not mean that you approve and consent of the transaction. With tap to pay there were ideas of mobile point of sales devices just tapping on peoples backpacks in a crowded area. You don't even keep your biometrics markers in your pocket, they're just out in the open for anyone with a camera. This may be bordering on paranoia, but a few years back (2014) German hackers from Chaos Computer Club took iris scans from Angela Merkel (then Chancellor of Germany) and finger prints of Ursula von der Leyen (then Minister of defense) using nothing but press fotos. Cameras have only gotten better.
TL;DR: Biometrics can be used for identification but should never be used for authorisation.
Biometrics also aren't great and uniqueness. At least where computers are concerned.
Recently we had one of our customers install fingerprint readers on their points of sale, the idea being any staff member can log in just by touching the pad. Even with only a few hundred staff registered, you get people logging in as each other.
I worked with Kronos, had their top tier biometrics in a 1,000+ employee company.
It was bad enough that of you had a person with a bad fingerprint, Kronos would just take ANY input. It would even tell you if a persons fingerprint wasn't good enough. It happened fucking constantly.
So either it's so good you can't escape it, it is so bad you can't use it to identify anyone uniquely. It's literally either a threat or an inconvenience.
Paying with your phone works on the presumption that your phone is locked and you accept responsibility for ensuring your phone wasn't breached. It uses contactless technology, but it's still effectively chip and pin as far as your bank is concerned.
Meanwhile, paying with a contactless card is processed as "cardholder not present" where the seller assumes de facto liability and must prove otherwise. Contactless payments were never a new type of card processing, it was a new method but is categorised the same as when mail/phone ordering from a catalogue. The same with online purchases. They were always a step below card & signature or chip & pin. Paying with your phone is the same as chip & pin though, where the onus is on you to ensure the transaction is secure.
Paying with your hand has all sorts of issues making it impractical. You would definitely need an additional confirmation eg PIN, but claiming that your hand is as secure as a traditional card doesn't lend well to pinning the liability on you. So banks are unlikely to use it.
Its hard to believe anyone would use the thing. It'll be more problematic if/when its used for regulatory purposes. Sort of at the desensitization still. Today.
I had to take a State exam for licensure a few years back. I was told that I had to take a palm/vein scan to prove my identity. I informed her Ive never had one so it could not prove my identity-- but hey, Im the crazy one. Its on a server somewhere now tho... Modernity is pretty stupid, tbh.
Then there's always the old, "Hey, I'll cut off this dude's hand and use it to buy stuff until he runs out of credit -- or rigor mortis sets in."
The thing it these readers are so convenient, my only complain is I wish they would work as the password hash technology. But as of right now we don't know for sure if that machine is saving a "hash" of your palm or is directly saving a copy of the original biometric data that would allow it to "recreate" your biometric ID somewhere else
I dont think its even that convenient! It requires electricity, web connectivity and loads of digital logic. My state ID just tangibly exists.
Makes me concerned for our future. Given we have one, that is.
Naturally. But don't get black-pilled :] They want us demoralized.
I hope this tech stays where ever the fuck it is and never touches Europe
May it die the death of a thousand deaths
This is Amazon One. Amazon is rolling it out pretty aggressively in their American grocery stores right now. Looks like itโs moved out of its pilot stage and is getting a national US rollout.
I didn't know paying in body parts was legal.
It's a brave new world, it seems
Body parts aren't secure. They're removable.
Stop telling people their body is insecure. Everyone is beautiful!
Except me.
And probably imitable, if not, soon enough.
Forget about privacy, this is just fucking dumb
One point of failure that canโt be replaced if stolen?
This wonโt ever take off, and will most definitely die out quickly in favor of literally any other technique including just embedding an nfc chip and battery to your palm surgically. Which I probably still wouldnโt be thrilled about but
I've see where you can pay with your fingerprint at some venders. It's a similar concept, in terms of single point of failure. Regardless, I hope you're right.
E: **mostly right. I won't embed anything in my skin for payments. CC or cash or phone NFC (and I don't like that one for it's security implications). That's it.
Who needs an NFC chip when you can just place a nail shaped NFC sticker on them and gel paint over them? We don't need implantables; those could get copied anyways and cause the need for unnecessary surgeries to replace them as well.
Buy the tags; apply them to your nails and paint them any color you want; pair them to your phone and use appropriate username + password + 2FA + Fingerprint combos to authenticate to your financial institution.
Lost a nail? No big deal. The tags don't carry financial data; they just provide a URI to the merchant; which can ping your phone/smartwatch and ensure that you are:
Iโm still not understanding why we need chips when we carry a computer every where we go.
And you can rob people by pulling their nails out.
I like to do this at Whole Foods in front of my anti vax friends and tell them about how cool it is to have a chip that lets me pay by waving my hand.
Embedded RFID? How is it like living with one of those in you? Deviant talks about how convenient they can be for cloning things like your hotel room key.
They let the early adopters get the happy water from the tap. Iโve been getting so much more done lately! Have wonderful day!
Oh, that palm. I thought Palm introduced their own payment method for Palm phones or something.
That's would be better hahs
spreads anus
โWonder if this worksโ
A true hacker right here, talk about being a skid ๐
I still think the idea of tech implants are cool but I've also reached the point where I wouldn't get one unless I learned to build it myself and was in charge of every single aspect of it.
Considering I lack degrees in medicine and computer science, I don't think I'll have them done anytime soon lol
Someone has 100% put their dick on that palm reader. Guaranteed.
"payment unrecognized. Object too small or too far away. Try again"
a lot more people will have touched themselves, then the palm reader, without first washing their hands
You're not wrong.
๐ฌ
You donโt hold your hand directly on the reader. The camera requires your hand to be about 2-3 inches away to work.
Oh no! I trashed my faithful Palm Pilot (tm) years ago :/
I trashed the Pilot. But I still have the Pre and Pixi haha
Well, one of them has Android now...
Drop the Pilot. Try my balloon.
Saw this at Whole Foods the other day for the first time and commented to the cashier that it was kind of creepy and her response was โI know rightโ.
Haha sorry, mate. Yeah, I wish it was that. I'd whip mine out real quick.
I will forever refuse to do this. That RealID thing or whatever theyโre calling it that the government is doing with the face scan gives me nightmares
Same here. It's called IDme and it's abysmal
Where is this?? Whole foods?
Yup
Yup
Be careful not to raise your arm too high... ๐
I think as long as you stay in the green zone?
Anything higher than petting pets is already too risky. Especially in modern day Germany.
bro, come back to me when most stores accept touch emv payments. lol, like each fucking store is gonna know what to do with a fucking palm scan when emv is fucking forbidden magic.
I don't understand what this solves... We can use a card faster than this (a mere tap), and if we forget our card, it's programmed into our phones and even our watches as a backup.
Its meant to save you a step. Before at whole foods you had to get out your phone, open the amazon app, scan your prime QR code, then get a card and pay. This just does all that with an enrolled palm.
I still don't trust it. I laughed at it when I saw it and even the clerk admitted it was dumb.
My dad who lives in a small village (around 5k people) has his account in a local bank. Nothing really differs this bank from big companies. Theyre just local. So my dad has this axcount and we are in a city nearby and want to do some shopping, spend some money on gear etc. But he looks for cash and its not in car. Then, ofc, he looks for his wallet with all his cards and he hasnt it too. So we are kinda fucked up and going back home and to shops would take an hour. (We were low on gas too.) So he withdraws cash with his fucking hand. Fucking hand. Pretty useful tbh but rather not safe.
And you trust the ower of the establishment, of the softwares, of the Internet, and the bank to not steal your data. Right. I wish you to be correctly assured. At least by your bank.
And don't forget, in case of data breach, change your palm.
Someone took the novel "The Java Script Cafรฉ" from "Stealing the network: How to own an identity" (page 141) and made a business model for it.
Why not just with the phone...?
I used my CC and for out of there with my cake.
Because my hands are filthy. I donโt want to get my phone all sticky/muddy/bloody or anything else you can imagine.
LG did this on a phone. It didn't really work, at all
Theirs was camera. This one is camera and thermal. Creepypasta for sure!
These types of things never work for me because my skin changes so much ๐
It measures your blood flow and veins using thermal and maybe infrared (?), so your exterior skin doesn't come into play.
All this trouble and they didn't even make the scanner shaped like a hand so you can high five it. Waste of potential.
"How about I pay with my blood?" Actually, sshh, don't give them ideas!
Peter Thiel is interested.
Smash it!
I'd rather not go to prison. If I were a billionaire, I could probably avoid prison with a good/sleazy lawyer, but, as it stands, I cannot.
Looks like fujitsu's palm vein biometric scanner
Only works if the hand is attached with blood flowing, great for South American atms
I can think of several ways to outsmart them. Not easy ways, mind you, but still.
It won't be long now until we have the eye scanner things from Minority Report and the only way to protect your privacy is to become blind
Yup
Whole foods is Amazon, so, kind of yea
Nah!
I've seen that in Lexx!
Whelp, it was only a matter time.
And bad legislation.
contactless cards are already a thing. why why why
Noooope
I don't get the issue with it ? Why wouldn't fingerprint be the best way to pay for stuff ?
The #MythBusters know why this is not a good idea.
So nothing is safe. Therefore???!!
For the same reason this isn't a good idea. Privacy aside, when your biometrics get leaked (and they will), you'll have no recourse, because biometrics are literally a part of your body and you can't change them.
How do you open your phone? Finger print?
The fingerprint in the phone is stored and verified locally, no way this is the case here.
It's okay, only Jeff Bezos and three weird sysadmin dudes can see your fingerprints. Don't worry bro. /s
I use a code, and I also use CalyxOS.