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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_7_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
It isn't off base to say Hamas is antisemitic. Hamas is a terrorist organization that attacked and murder civilians.
Israel then responded by also killing civilians. I don't think anyone is in the right here. Fighting war crimes with war crimes is not productive. Maybe we shouldn't go around killing people.
don’t think anyone is in the right here.
Still, the number of Israeli's killed is nowhere near the over 40,000 Palestinians killed. So it's weird to be pro-Israel.
It makes sense in the context of World war 2 and 9/11
Israel is closer to America than Hamas or Iran. Ultimately politics are not rational. People find facts to back there beliefs not the other way around.
Don't be crazy and cite information from over two years ago (when nobody gave a fuck whether Palestinians lived or died).
Huh - it's almost like the whole situation is kinda complicated to those of us trying to understand for decades and shouldn't be simplified by useful idiots who just tuned in and spent their energy in the streets instead of the ballot box.
EDIT: Wow, the previous poster totally changed their post that pretty much just outright repeated the traditional points of Zionist Propaganda on this as seen in most of the the Western Media (I should've kept a screenshot) into a response to my own post which just outright repeats traditional points of Zionist Propaganda (at least he's consistent) but without the slick framing.
(Interesting technique to avoid that others are notified of a response and come back to counter it).
My original benefit of the doubt (that maybe he's not a sock-puppet) seems to have been incorrect. My bad.
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My original post below:
That shit starts by straight out quoting Zionist propaganda.
First the double standard:
Either they're both Terrorist organisations for "attacking and murdering civilians" or one is a Resistance Movement and the other a Nation State. Claiming that the murdering of civilians to terrify the rest into complying with one's political and economical goals is only Terrorism if some do it but not if others do it is absolutely taking a side and doing it quite extremely since "Terrorist" is a heavily loaded word.
Second:
The ever repeated Zionist propaganda that being against Israel is being against Jews hence it's antisemitism. Is Hamas anti-semite (I.e. against Jews for being Jews) or is it against an occupier oppressor nation that takes their land and murders their children and is controlled by a subset of Jews? So far all indications are that it's mainly the latter.
Also the double standard raises its face once again here as the Israelis aren't being said to be anti-Islamic, which is funny give that even the Israeli press is extremely racist nowadays - curious that the alleged Racism of one side just had to be mentioned but not of the other side.
Third point:
That Israel responded as if there had been nothing else before. This is pure Zionist framing of this stage of a long ongoing conflict between a colonialist occupier and the native resistance. Israel started this shit, way back when the Zionist colonialists started stealing the land of Palestinians and expelling them or murdering the (the first peak of it being the Nakba).
If Israel was given the exact same treatment as Hamas in that text, it would have been described as "the Terrorist anti-Islamic colonialist invader"
Now, I'd like to think you're just naively repeating the Zionist framing and propaganda that they so carefully spread in the West, in which case you might want to actually think about what you read before repeating it, as you're parroting outright propaganda.
Stop arguing with logic against these people, they only understand power.
I went to all the trouble of pointing out the obvious hypocrisy and propaganda not for "these people" but for everybody else.
Only solution is become a mod and banhammer those motherfuckers. Fuck them!
Those specific propaganda elements are widespread in the West and widelly repeated in the mass media even outside the US, so it's useful to deconstruct all that for others when I am in a position to do so since that deconstruction of it will also alter their perception of other instances they saw which at the time they did not really spotted for what it really is.
Hopefully the pointing out the mechanisms used here to construct a highly biased image will even make the readers of the deconstructions of it such as mine be more resilient to other instances of the same techniques being used.
Further, how can we be sure that this poster is a propagandist sock-puppet and not just a normal person who got deceived by the modern (that relies on framing, qualifying and implying) style of propaganda and hence repeated it?
I think that all in all, it's better to have these things and then just deconstructing them for all to see, than silencing them. Also on principle I'm very wary of Censorship.
I don't remember where I read that Israel used the Hannibal directive on october 7. Still, I don't think Hamas is that bad. They fight for they country that's being invaded. Everyone's pro ukraine, but not pro palestine, why's that?
Not the only source, or a primary source, but the most comprehensive I've found so far. How Israel killed hundreds of its own people on 7 October
Palestine is not Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization that's calling for the extermination of all Jews. Around 6,000 soldiers went into Israel and murder and tortured innocent people. Palestine is pretty innocent as far which isn't great for them as they are getting caught in the middle. Also Israel has reportedly killed some of its own people since they can't really tell who's part of Hamas. (They kill anything that could be a threat)
The Hannibal directive was used by Israel to intentionally target and kill any Israeli prisoners being taken on Oct. 7. Israel has come out and said it. The attack was horrible, but every action by Israel was about wiping Gaza off the map. They were just looking for "acceptable" ways to accomplish it. As for torturing people, many Palestinians who were not part of Hamas were held and tortured. The people who returned to Israel all seem to be saying they weren't tortured and were mostly bored sitting around waiting. It very much seems like a situation where a group was marginalized, constantly poked and proded, and then when someone responds they use it as reason to invoke further marginalization. Over and over until a "terrorist" organization was formed. Without such treatment, Hamas would have had no reason to exist. Zionism appears to have caused the entire issue.
Hamas murdered innocent Israelis. I'm not saying that Israel is the good guy here as clearly they have murdered and tortured. The think to keep in mind is that Hamas also killed innocent people. People lost loved ones on both sides and I think it is important to remember that murder is not ok. Israel may of killed far more people but that doesn't mean that Hamas isn't also guilty of murder. It is quite sad that people are taking thousands of human lives and putting them on some sort of scale. Everyone of those lost was a value human being and there will be people who are left with out a loved one. Doing comparisons of numbers overlooks the brutality of senseless killing.
Hamas murdered innocent Israelis
ANC murdered innocent South Africans, WW2 resistance groups murdered innocent Germans. To hell with you and your both sides bullshit that favours oppressors.
(They kill anything that could be a threat)
How is a small child a threat?
Idk, it seems to me that all that "hamas killed innocent people" it's just zionist propaganga, like the 40 babies decapitated ecc. If they're lying about this, who's to say they aren't lying about everything else? I tend to try to ignore things that seems propaganda online
But but the zionist "found" a Hamas plan on one of them "written in Enlish LOL" explaining their devlish plans.
To this day ZERO proof of rapes or decapitating babies.
Unlike the Palestinians who get tortured and raped en masse by these monsters.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that’s calling for the extermination of all Jews
This is a lie on par with "Ukraine is controlled by Nazis".
Around 6,000 soldiers went into Israel and murder and tortured innocent people. Palestine is pretty innocent as far which isn’t great for them as they are getting caught in the middle.
Damn, crazy how Israeli citizens are "murdered and tortures by Hamas soldiers who went into Israel", while Palestinian citizens merely "get caught in the middle"
Fucking disgusting use of two faced rhetoric.
Ukraine has a massive nazi problem that has been swept under the carpet.
Before zelenski they certainly were controled by them and they still are a powerful force. They laughed in his face in 2019 when he talked to them about ending the war.
(I mean the war against the east that didn't want to live under the fascists after their violent coup. But like the zionist do it's perfectly fine to ignore this and say the violence started when evil Russia attacked ukraine for no reason, the ukranian oct 7). When Zelenski fired Zalushni he posted this as a veiled threat.
The Banderites said they would hang Zelenski if he would start negotiating.
If there would be elections now one of the extreme right would become president (again)
If Hamas isn't Palestine then why is the IDF Isreal? Or whatever the fuck their ruling party is called
We also shouldn't be trying to propagandizing people to try and fanatically support us instead of "the other guy".
I think ultimately the conflict is way more complicated than many people are willing to admit. Hamas hates Jews so Israel can't really let down its guard. However, they probably shouldn't be gunning down anything that moves either. There really isn't a good solution but that's something that people really don't want to hear. It is much easier to align with one side.
Israel is dropping bombs on Gaza and telling the civilians whose families are murdered that it's in the name of Jewish sovereignty. No wonder some Palestinians hate Jews. Israel is telling them to.
Stop killing their babies and their mothers, and they'll stop joining Hamas.
Are you familiar with chickens and eggs?
Yes. The first chicken egg was laid by a non-chicken reptilian ancestor. And the cycle of violence between Israel and Palestine began with the 1948 Nakba, the mass displacement and ethnic cleansing operation which ended with 78% of Palestine's land occupied by Israel.
Give it back. There are people alive today who remember being forced to flee from their homes by Israeli soldiers during the Nakba. Let them go home.
There really isn’t a good solution but that’s something that people really don’t want to hear.
Actually there is a good solution, you just don't want to hear it. Free Palestine.
There's good solutions, and there's easy solutions. They just don't align. It's just those with power prefer the latter over the former, cause it helps them keep that power. Their end goal also generally isn't peace...
Which is really what this post is about. It's about the tactics used (by "both sides") to vilify their enemies and galvanize their base. To create extremists and reactionaries who think little and act a lot.
The real rub is those parties, the "good guys" and the "bad guys" (interchangeable depending on which power player we're talking about) are vastly outnumbered by the people caught in the middle. If they stopped reacting and started thinking, those power players would lose their momentum.
Algorithmic social media and targeted advertising aren't helping either. I'm glad to be here having this discussion. I think Lemmy and Mastodon are the future regardless of your political views.
I think they're just another kind of echo chamber people use to espouse views.
Until people change the way they express themselves, and open themselves to different ideas, nothing will change. Moving to a different social media tool because people think similarly to oneself there doesn't expand horizons or change perspectives, if anything it narrows them.
That's right, humans are terminaly flawed and dated. They should be replaced.
Memory updated.
You would have said the same thing about the annihilation of the Warsaw ghetto
Thanks hasbara operative
wow so brave