1y ago

Capitalism indoctrination in progress.

Antiwork @lemmy.ml

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Antiwork @lemmy.world

Capitalism indoctrination in progress.

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337 comments

It's true that it's not always about the money, but it's probably never about a ping pong table
- Well, hypothetical speaking, if there were two completely absolutely identical jobs, but the one had a ping pong table. I might choose the one without and ask them to get a Foosball table, since I'm no good at ping pong.
  
  It also depends on whether it's about a pingpong table in the office, or whether I get one for at home and we're talking a fully remote job.
  Getting a free pingpong table isn't a bad bonus! I'd prefer a decent crokinole board though, tbh
  
  If they put in any kind of clackball table, I’m demanding noise canceling headphones and my own office.
  
  I'm all about the air hockey table.
- Most places that have HR like this work their employees too hard for them to have time to use a ping pong table anyway, so it's really just a hollow gesture.
  
  A company I used to work for had a fucking arcade of all sorts of video games, I NEVER saw anyone playing them
- Indeed.
  It's telling that "basic dignity" or "managers who aren't dicks" didn't make the list.
  
  Yeah. In my experience, "A manager who doesn't suck" is most of the list.
  Source: I've been the manager who did suck, and the one who doesn't. I have some data points.
- Ping pong tables are loud as fuck and disrupt the whole office. If they invest in a soundproof room to put it in, sure. Otherwise it just makes you feel like a massive douche.
  
  Especially if your coworkers play like pros.
  Thwack
  thwack thwack
  Thwack
- I wanted a foosball table dammit!
  
  That's the game of the debil!!!!
  
  Dammit, you beat me to it!
- My last job had a pingpong table. We'd even use it occasionally. That is, until people started getting pissy when they'd see us playing pingpong. Then management started removed that we were playing pingpong instead of working. Eventually, nobody was allowed to use the pingpong table - it just sat there, in the middle of the room, with brand new paddles and packs of balls that we weren't allowed to use.
  The money was okay - not great, but not terrible. After some management fuckery, I left for a $10000/yr raise and 100% work from home. I've gone up $20K since then, been promoted to senior, still have upward trajectory, and still work 100% from home. I have a desk in Memphis somewhere, but I've never actually seen it.
- It is if you're managing an Olympic ping pong team
- My employer really covered their bases. We have ping-pong, pool, and foosball. That guarantees that everyone has something that will keep them from quitting.
- It’s always about autonomy, one way or another. People want to be able to control how they work and what they can get out of it. For some that does mean more money, for some it would mean less stress, for others it could means less meetings.
  It’s pretty easy for management to address all of it by just giving people more power over what their work lives are like, but that could mean less control over their workforce. No “owner” wants that, to them, they own their employees’ time/work life.
- I was at my last job for 10 years.
  If I had been well paid and treated well I would not have ever started that job search. Further even just having one of those two thing might have kept me from looking.
  At that job I hit the tipping point of both. It’s was getting shittier everyday and the pay wasn’t budging year after year. Finally mid-Covid the power flipped to the employee and jobs were much easier to get. I started looking and jumped shipped.
- It’s not ever not about the money around 0% of the times.
  
  Eh. Toxic work culture can drive people away regardless of the pay. Obviously some people suck it up but not everyone. Ultimately the goal is to treat employees well all around. Good pay, benefits, and work culture will keep people happy.
- This

As a professional in this field, top reasons would be...
Dissatisfaction with pay
Limited/No career progression
Dissatisfaction with environment/culture
Dissatisfaction with management
Poor work-life balance
Poor job design/expectations of role
Poor taining quality/knowledge management
Inadequate tools/systems
Edit: I should also point out we have about half a dozen ping-pong tables scattered around my work and our turnover figures were bang on average for annual benchmarking against the sector. I consider the average too high, though, and will be targeting better retention over this year. We'll need at least double the amount of ping-pong tables.
- I don't see pizza party or ping pong table on that list so you're obviously not a professional.
  A real professional knows employees want pizza parties instead of higher pay and they want more responsibilities with the same pay!
  :P
  
  Pizza party solves everything!!
- My top reasons for leaving a job:
  Too little pay
  Too many responsibilities
  The possibility of career progression
  The three Big Nos. My optimal work-life balance is 0.1-99.9. If they trust me to be able to do even one thing, that pay better be huge.
- Almost all of these applied to the last job I left, so I guess it's pretty spot on.
- So ping pong table falls under the third point right? More ping pong = more fun = better culture? Right? /s just for clarity
  
  Very correct. You can solve bad culture by throwing more money at the problem. Preferably all at once with zero maintenance budget or governance so that the amenities in question can become non-functional monuments to your superior culture. Future generations will find these and marvel at your ingenuity from the safety of the water cooler.
- Obviously right? I mean this post is definitely a joke
- you really a pro, I'm looking for other jobs precisely because of 1 and 2, even though the rest are all great at my current job
- What field?
  
  Strategic Workforce Planning. It's a bit different to HR in that there's a lot of data analysis. Typically we would use data to identify retention issues (reasons, areas, seasonality, etc) and figure out how to improve it. We'd then hand that over to HR to ~~implement~~ fuck up.
- There’s some new research that shows raising pay is not great for retention. Studies say it’s better to take that money and put it into a long-term benefit line a pension, profit sharing, while life insurance with a cash out value, etc.
  Raises and bonuses had about a 3-month effect.
  
  That seems highly suspect.
  Was this research sponsored by the association for research into golden parachuting out of a pillaged company?

There is a bit of truth here. Toxic culture and out of touch management will make people walk as well.
Thing is, there might just be a wad of cash big enough to make me put up with that against my health interests.
Fuck ping pong tables though. No one left a company because they didn't have enough fucking table sports. If you think they are then you are the problem. Exit interview your own fucking arse.
- Around 2012 I had a interview with a recruiter, he asked me what kind of company you're looking for, and I replied, one without a ping pong table, he laughed at me, I am an immigrant, left home when I was 19, so around 2008 went around in my country and EU, and already understood that whenever a company had a ping pong table it had a shitty culture, so by the time of that interview I already seen more than enough shitty companies, but I remember that interview in particular because the guy started making fun of me, laughing at me
  11 years after, I wish I could speak with that recruiter to see if he understood that ping pong tables are low efforts solutions adopted by shitty-environment companies and if he would laugh at me again
  
  He had to laugh at you, otherwise he would have cried because he knew you were right.
  
  Lol he probably just thought you sucked at ping pong.
- One of the best bosses I ever had once told me that people will stay for the culture but leave for money. His philosophy was to try and ensure that money was not a factor in people's decision, then build as good a culture as he could.
  And to be clear, by making money not a factor, I mean he paid well.
  
  I had a meeting years ago with my company's CTO about my salary. He kicked off the meeting by saying "you care a lot more about what you make than I do" which prompted me to ask for 50% more than I had been planning to ask for. He agreed to it without argument. TBF he was a coke addict married to the daughter of the company's owner and within six months he'd been divorced and fired, but I got to keep my salary.
- "Man, my job pays horribly and the benefits barely cover anything, but they have a ping-pong table so it's honestly a tough call."
  I struggle to understand how someone could seriously write something like that question without a lack of self-awareness so dire that a walk to the kitchen would come with a near-death experience. It just can't be real.
- That was beautifully put.
- I think the truth is that it assuming it's the latter may not be enough. But the first two are even less likely. Additional responsibilities WITHOUT a raise is very, very unlikely to be what anyone was waiting for to stick around.
- This is what I came to say. Good management will make people stay for a long time with less pay.
  But obviously HR doesn't get that lmao.
- This is it right here!
  Last time a job tried to hire me from my current position, it was all about the money, my company was willing to compete. I stayed with the company.
  This time where I'm throwing applications like campaign pamphlets, I'm willing to take a cut in pay.
  It is shocking how a year can have a company go to the shitter.
  
  The flip side is if you can't be bothered to set aside some money for a ping pong table, as well have the sense to first ask around whether people would rather have foosball, or a proper pizza oven, or whatever the fuck, your company culture probably also sucks. A place for recreation means that you respect recreation and extend enough trust to have employees self-manage their need for it.
  ...of course, setting up that place only to have it be a hunting ground for micromanagers preying on unsuspecting workers is not what I'm talking about. If noone ever uses those areas, worry.
- yeah, the "not necessarily pay is accurate, but the "right" answer being ping-pong table pivots things from "ok, they have some understanding" to "incredibly tone deaf".
- I mean not enough ping-pong tables could be reason to leave for a PE teacher or something

It’s true, most people don’t care about money.
They care about what money can help them buy, like another day of survival.
It was never about the money. It was about maslovs heirarchy of needs; which, at the very bottom, is a foosball table.
- There's two kinds of money: Enough money, and more than enough money.
  If you don't have enough money, that's all that matters. A nicer day at work means very little.
  Once you have enough money, more money matters very little. Now it's about enjoying work etc.
  
  Ah but what is enough money for you or I is not enough money for the bigwigs. And since they're obviously more important, as they're at the top, we have to have sure they get enough money even if that means you don't.
  But they'll get you a ping pong table so you can stop thinking about how you don't know what you're going to feed your family tonight
  
  This is brilliant!
  Tangentially related, I heard another about enough money:
  When you already have enough money, do you really need 2x enough money?
- Yeah like, cmon, what do you think the pyramid sits on. On the floor??? No, on the holiest of of foosball tables!
- It's actually second from the bottom, above Pogs.
- Eh, I dunno. You can wipe your tears with money, light cigars with it, sew clothing from it. Many uses! :P

There's only been two reasons for me to quit a job: shitty pay and shitty people in charge.
Sounds like this company has both.
- Sounds like you need a Ping Pong table.
  
  AND additional responsibilities!
  
  Somebody might also have a case of mondayitis.

None of these answers is correct, it's simply not a multiple choice question.
For some the pay is important, others need a bit of distraction like a ping pong table.
Everybody has their own needs, the biggest HR loser is the one that fits all employees in the same square.
- others need a bit of distraction like a ping pong table.
  That is never the answer. If your business isn't retaining people because the party culture isn't party enough...you've got way bigger problems...and it's probably leadership.
  
  As I get older I begin to realize that people love to work.
  However people hate being treated like shit.
  Treating people like shit or building an environment that supports shitty behavior poisons the well and will absolutely make people leave, even for a pay cut.
  If you just respect people and properly value them and their contributions to your organization, you'll never have trouble keeping them.
  
  So, a fruit basket?
  
  I wouldn't say party culture - it is what you make of it! You're normally at work for a significant portion of your day. Something like a table tennis table can help to break up the day and is just a bit of fun. For example, we had a table tennis tournament at work, which people got really into - it was fun and people bonded over it. I'd take that over working somewhere where you don't even know your colleagues.
  This was at a tech company where culture was a big part of why almost everyone worked there. Definitely wasn't a party culture, but it was collaborative, where people worked closely together. There was never an expectation to work outside of working hours, or to do anything social - it was purely optional.
  Obviously pay is a big factor, but it isn't everything. I'm lucky enough to be in a sector where I can afford to get paid less and have a better work (definitely not party!) culture and work-life balance.
  
  Like leadership partying too much
  
  Nah. That's too black and white
- Found that one that wanted the ping pong table.

A ping pong table? What for? So HR can punish you when you use it?
- seriously，who has time to use a ping pong table at work? It's like a decoration to remind you you're not having fun.
  
  You can only enjoy the perks during your 45 minute lunch break. Food or fun, your choice ..
  
  Where do you live, where taking breakes is frowned upon? That's crazy.
  Here in Denmark, I'm being reminded to take breakes and go home. I have been asked if I'm sure it's not hurting my work/life balance, before getting overtime approved.
  It's also common to stay at work after hours to hang out, if there's a nice place to do that.
  
  This is so true, and I don't even have a pingpong table at work

Yeah, the main reason Ive changed jobs is money. Nobody gives raises like new bosses.
- I always tell people the easiest way to get a raise is to find a new job. Nobody is keeping up with inflation anymore, it's pretty much required to job hop to break even anymore.
  
  I like my job, but I'd leave for the right position/compensation.
  I try to interview once per quarter, at least.
  I've started adding some tough questions, like asking how the average annual increases compare with inflation and COLA. Most interviewers turn into a 13 year old telling a girl they have a crush on them -- all of the sudden 0 confidence.
  That's when I tell them that for the circumstance, my compensation ask is going to be quite high.
  I also tell local employers that my "in office" ask is literally 5x pay. They always balk and say somethi g like "yeah that's not gonna happen," to which I say "Tell me about it!"
  Everyone should interview more. Declining a good offer because you like your situation more feels like doing cocaine.
- Especially if you know exactly that your employer most likely has zero loyalty to you either.
  If there was a way to get the same work for 20% less, my employer would happily do that.
  I never understood that logic, tbh. It can't be good for a business to lose half the staff every few years. Bringing in fresh blood once in a while is good, but you shouldn't need constant transfusions.

A company offered me a million dollars to work for them, but then I remembered the ping pong table at my current employer and said no way. Totally worth it.
- Money can't buy what a ping pong table brings.

I once worked at a place with a ping pong table. I got a lot of ugly stares from managers if I actually tried to use it, so it was mostly left alone.
Now whenever I see jobs that list something like that as a perk, I usually see it as a negative.
- I interviewed once for a part-time job at a potential startup, and the two people running it spent 75% of the time talking about how they had a pingpong table and how that meant it was a fun company...
  The job wouldn't be in the office tho, so for my position (and pretty much every employee) would only be able to use it off the clock.
  They were very excited about the ping pong table tho, because their job was in office and they played a lot.
  I didn't take the job.
  And the startup never opened.
  
  I've worked in at a smaller startup with a ping pong table and my anecdote is we were all obsessed with ping pong. So their excitement could really be genuine. It's not always a ruse.
  
  You are a wise man, keep it up

I had this argument with a boomer HR consultant and she just doubled down, even though I explained that neither I nor my colleagues, give two hoots about fussball or team building. Our position is a resounding "fuck you pay me" but oh no - boomer knows best.
- My then gf now wife moved in with me and my employer wouldn't cover her under the insurance. I made it clear that this was important. They wouldn't back down. So got a new job. During the exit interview I repeated what I told them. It was only about the health insurance. HR tried to get me to talk smack about my manager, a guy I actually liked. I praised him and again told them that this was only about insurance.
  Told my manager about what they did on the way out the door.

Yeah, often when an employee leaves it's about the lack of ping-pong table.
- "Yes, boss, I'm leaving because I'm tired of playing ping-pong on unoccupied morgue tables, you really should've bought a proper ping pong table instead"

Questions like these make me wonder if large capitalists actually live in an alternate universe but through some time and space shenanigans they are still here. There's just no way they can make this type of shit up (assuming it's a real question) without being delusional or sadistic.
- There’s just no way they can make this type of shit up (assuming it’s a real question) without being delusional or sadistic.
  Of course there is: they want to implement doublethink. It's a deliberate attempt to make workers not to pursue their own rational interest when it conflicts with corporate profits.
- I'm sorry to say but psychopaths walk among us every day, you just need to play the game, until you find a better gig
- You gotta have hr (the worker who defends the bosses interests) on your side if you wanna drop $300 on a ping pong table rather than raises.
  
  Raises cost $30,000. That's why they prefer the ping pong table.
- They are either people in advantageous positions that benefit from this or people that are stupid enough to think they will one day be the rich benefiters of this so why should they shoot their future self in the foot right? Goes hand in hand with people that are stupid enough to keep voting right because they advocate for the poor so at some point surely something will change.
- These people live in the future where automatons make money for them for nothing. It's why uber is pushing for automated cars. They don't care about the present.

- 🌍👨🏻‍🚀 🔫👨🏽‍🚀
- When I worked at a soul-crushing insurance job, we were given an event where the bosses served us pancakes. That was right after we were forced to celebrate bosses' day and watch our bosses open gifts that the suck-ups got them. I was able to quit without notice shortly after and it felt so goddamn good.

I've never left a company because of money. I have left because the bullshit they put me through wasn't worth the money. That's not just being funny either. I'm okay with being under-compensated if the environment is positive, managers are friendly and flexible, and it actually feels like our sister teams have similar goals and we're not working against each other.
- I agree with this, with a caveat. I'm ok with being underpaid compared to industry standard, to a certain extent. However, I'm not ok with being underpaid compared to other colleagues doing similar work for the same employer.
  
  Totally agreed , in my previous company I had a very good supportive team , remote work and everything , but I was vastly underpaid !
- I agree with this, with a caveat. I'm ok with being underpaid compared to industry standard, to a certain extent. However, I'm not ok with being underpaid compared to other colleagues doing similar work for the same employer.
- I love that in theory,
  There are so many systems/programs/policies that promise to do that verry thing that I wonder if their trying to pretend to improve rather than actually doing so. It doesnt work, just be a miserable failure of a cult.
  genuine compassion is possable, you just gotta wade through the BS others are trying to sell your employer.

Ping Pong table ? Are they serious ?!? We had a PS5 in the meeting room for ~4 month an no one ever touched it. I don't go to work to have a fun time, I go to do my job, then leave and have a fun somewhere else. More correct answers for retaining employees:
give them tasks they are interested in
give them perspective for developement (promotions, raise, mobility, etc)
value their contributions and support them moraly (you want to know your managers and colleages got your back)
of course more money ! Or alternatively more freetime !
- Absolutely correct. I always wonder when I see such reports where HR comes up with their completely stupid notion that work is not about earning money.
  
  Well, it's not just the money obviously, but a lot of HR takes that to the convenient extreme that "the money doesn't matter".
  It also changes based on the compensation amount. Someone making $300k/year may feel less obsessed with a raise versus someone making $50k/year.
- Incorrect right answer a air hockey table you don't want money you want to play the Foosball
  
  Yes! My thoghts exactly! I am an addict to foosball. Anything to enable my adiction is worth it! I have 3 tables at home already (all Mimic free) and am able to play 2 games at the same time. /s
  
  Foosball is a four person game I'll die on that hill. And not even because I suck at defence (as such, I do plenty of that mid-field and forward) but because the game isn't about frantically grabbing handles. So yes air hockey is an excellent addition.
- Profit sharing can be one hell of an incentive to retain and motivate employees.
- One of my previous jobs had an employee exercise room. Some people used it and management didn't like that so they said we're not allowed to use it during our shift and only after hours. It was a government position so we weren't allowed to be in the building before or after our shift.
  These places only use them to advertise to new employees how "friendly" they are.
- More correct answers for retaining employees:
  Have managers that aren't oblivious idiots
  Have even higher-ups that aren't oblivious idiots
  Don't treat employees like easily replaceable money-eating parasites

It is pretty simple. Respect your employees and they will respect you. Respect starts with valuing the employee's contributions by paying them a fair wage. It continues with treating them well. A way of treating them well might be a point ping table, but that comes on top of a fair wage, not instead of.
A good manager might recognise a hard working team needs a way to relax and gets a pool table or something. The employees are happy and tell their friends they've got a pool table at work, everyone is jealous. It seems like the pool table is the reason but it is just a symptom of them being generally treated well.
- I wonder if this is how this whole trend started: some decent manager recognized their hard working well-paid and taken care of team deserved some extra something, got them a pool table or whatnot, then other shittier companies copied this thinking it was a solution in itself without understanding why the thing was installed in the first place

Never quit a job over lack of ping pong tables.
- Unless of course your job is to be a ping pong ball tester, in which case you may not be getting supported with the necessary tools to perform your job successfully.

Ah yes because I have the time to play ping pong :)
- They didn't even take themselves seriously when making the "ping pong table" as the correct answer. HR is a bad joke
- "Additional responsibilities" is obviously the correct intended answer.
  
  It could be technically correct (the best kind of correct). An employee could leave because they weren't getting paid for all the extra responsibilities they were forced to take on. I've seen it often enough in the "tales from" subreddits (/r/talesfromretail, /r/talesfromtechsupport).
- Don't worry, it's a mandatory team building exercise. 😉

This is true but still not the right answer... it's not always about the money
IT'S ABOUT THE METS BABY, LET'S GO METS, GONNA GET A HOMERUN, LOVE THE METS! LET'S GO METS!
- Now give me a raise so I can afford to see the METS BABY YEAH THE METS
  
  You got it buddy! A big raise cause you're gonna want to get hotdogs and beer baby!

This reminds me of the Simpson episode where they are negotiating a new contract. It’s the same as the old one expect the they replace the dental plan with a keg of beer.
Season 4 Episode 17 “Last Exit to Springfield” .
- Lisa needs braces
  
  Dental plan

Yeah, we're the fucking generation that can't afford our own living, but have you tried giving us a ping-pong table?

How many of these companies think employees are going to say it's about the money during an exit interview? Usually if you agree to an exit interview it's to be diplomatic and not burn your bridges. You're not going to tell the truth, you're going to say what they want to hear.
- I was abundantly clear that I was leaving for the money. They countered with a salary that was pretty much identical, but I wasn't shy about telling hr that it shouldn't take me getting another offer to convince them that I was worth paying market rates for.
  No bridges burned, they've reached out twice now to see if I'd come back and the salary is now pretty competitive but I'm in a good spot and not interested in leaving.
  You can be honest and diplomatic....if you try.
  
  So what you're saying is that your reason for leaving wasn't about the money
- I always have. If that's the reason, why wouldn't you? It's just business. Once, they've offered me a potentential promotion or salary increase to try to retain me (but not nearly as much as I got from the new job). I doubled my salary and got my title promoted twice in 2 years by switching employers twice. If I keep it up I'll be a CEO in no-time, lol.

perfectly maps to startups selling working at a startup as "we're a family", "you're a googler", etc. give them a ping pong table and free beer on fridays and you can pay considerably less.
- If they're anything like my relatives, I absolutely DON'T want to be treated like family...
  
  Thought you were going to launch into a family tragedy involving ping pong and beer. Carry on.

the correct answer to this entire questionnaire is to close it and never look back

They said employee, not wage slave
- Does HR even know the difference ?

Of course, nobody with two brain cells to rub together who reads that answer is sitting there thinking to themselves, "Huh... I guess I've had it wrong all this time, focusing so much on money." Rather, they're instinctively blurting out, "Yeah right -- I call bull!"
But I'll give them partial credit; frequently it's about money. Sometimes, it's just about a work environment that used to be great going to crap. And sometimes, it's about the employee coming to an epiphany, and realizing that their work environment was actually crap all along.
That said, it may be true that not every job that I've ditched was entirely because of money... but it should go without saying that it's always a factor in where I went for the next job. Also, it's never the only factor -- but it's certainly one of the more significant ones.

"Usually, in our narrow and sad description of what an employee wants, it's not money. Clearly it's more related to the lack of ping-pong tables and extra responsibilities." 🤡
These people have absolutely forgotten what it means to be an employee.
- Born rich they were never an employee
  
  I started out with millions of dollars and look at me now. I've pulled myself by my boots straps I have. Read my book, it's it's called "How To Get Rich And Be A Pretentious Dipshit". It is self-published and available on my website. At me on LinkedIn

share this with workreform. they'll love it. I would link but forgot how
- !workreform@lemmy.world

I actually convinced my boss to get us a ping pong table, all I had to do was forego my pay for a year!
Totally worth, since I'm not working for the money, I'm working for the culture (our culture is now a ping pong table). It's so awesome that I can use it during my state-mandated breaks 🙂
- state-mandated breaks 🙂
  Looks like someone doesn't do construction work in Texas.

Most people quit because of bad bosses. I know I have...

46 HR Employees downvoted this post.

This has to be satire
...right?
- Definitely not. I've seen these type of questions and answers on practically any job application in America. Thing is, this isn't even the worst example of it, unfortunately. It's fucking depressing and degrading.

I can't afford groceries for the 3rd time this month, but did you hear they're putting a ping pong table in the lounge!?

Wild. They both "might" help. They both cost the company money. They should both be correct.
- Wtf are you talking about? Employees work office jobs 9 to 5 because they love to work. Like all good employee's. Heck, if they weren't getting paid they'd still the work for free because they love it so much. It's only out of the pure goodness of my heart that I decide to pay them minimum wage/s
  
  They work because they're family, right? Not for money.
  
  The only thing that makes less sense than your comment is people upvoting it.
  Morale and pay are both factors, your sarcastic comment makes it seem like you believe everyone only cares about pay and nothing else...
  Some people make good money, so that's not their primary motivation when picking a job.
- In fact all three are valid answers. Cruel manipulation as it is, additional even uncompesated responsibilities often do drive retention as people are invested too deep and too stressed out to consider switching or find time for the process.

Chants for your next strike action:
"Our CEO'S a DING DONG, WE JUST WANT THE PING PONG!!!"
"Hey hey! ho ho! Give us balls and paddles or we're going to go! Hey hey! Ho ho!"
"The workers without ping pong, will never work the day long!"
"The people with no paddles, will never be your chattel!"
"backhands, forehands, we don't need your labels, the only thing we need are fucking ping pong tables!"

I doubt most people leave because of a lack of ping-pong table.

This is the reason why but never the reason I give. If I make employers think at any time that I focus too much on the money, they will see me as a troublemaker. Instead, I come up with some bullshit excuse such as medical reasons and the smart employers will work it out on their own.
- ? We are all in it for the money. How is that being a trouble maker? Money is a motivator and should be used to incentivize performance.
  
  It's completely bizarre how we live in a capitalist society and yet we're supposed to be motivated by work culture work.
  It's like they think that capitalism only applies to them.
- You think that way because they've taught you to think that way. Instead, you should be very plain about your pay expectations. If someone starts getting on your case for being "pay motivated" or some other horseshit HR wageyganda idea, here's what you say.
  "I hear what you're saying, and certainly the main drivers in my career goals are broadening my skillset and achieving excellence. However, my life and family goals operate in a capitalist society reliant on me growing my compensation year over year. If this job is unprepared to meet my life goals, then let's be explicit about that so I can reevaluate my plan for my household and decide whether this position is a fit."
  
  I think this way because it's how many of my employers think. I would love to have a job where I could be this honest and it's something I'm working on but most employers think this way and so too does my current employer. Even so, this is the highest paying job I've had so far. It's easy for you to say that behind a keyboard not knowing my situation, it's much harder for me to have a frank conversation with my manager in a deep red state. I've been fired before and rejected during the interview process for being too honest.

Damn. Now I want a ping pong table.
- Hey, wanted to level-set with you real quick. Some people in the office have commented that they see you playing ping pong quite a bit. I know you’re just playing on your breaks but It’s really not a good look.
  Thanks for the chat.
- That's funny. I want additional responsibilities
- I have one, but it's just not the same having one at home as it is having one at work y'know?

Was "A ping pong table and enough free time in my schedule to actually use it for half an hour on a quiet day without the area manager coming in and demanding that we get back to work" too long?
Ill stay at an average paying job with a great culture, over a shitty culture and more money. But only to a point.
- I think the issue most companies don't realize is that we are forcing many people under a living wage, and at that point being paid better is the only thing that counts.
- Was “A ping pong table and enough free time in my schedule to actually use it for half an hour on a quiet day without the area manager coming in and demanding that we get back to work” too long?
  About 5 years ago our department manager bought us a barbecue for our warehouse.
  It is still in it's plastic wrapping. We have never had the time to get together as a group and use it.
  
  My experience there is that someone has to spearhead the initiative to use it. Show management that its a positive thing and if they dont jump on board, shove it back into the corner and say "we tried".
  We had one at a place I used to work at and we had a $5 friday lunch. We all worked a few extra minutes into lunchtime to cover the hour that one guy spent cooking. The only real "sacrifice" that had to be made was someone had to go grab the supplies on thrsday afternoon. In the end the bosses gave the "chef" paid time to shoot off, get the supplies and cook. They also agreed to cover the gas for the bbq.
  Doesnt sound like much but $5 for a can of coke and a couple of cheesesteak sandwiches, some spicy sausage sandwiches, bacon and egg rolls... friday lunch was always a good time.
- I think that's a stance that make different amounts of sense at different compensation levels.
  You make $50k and someone offers a $75k salary? Then you'll likely risk the culture. If you make $150k and facing a $200k offer? The bird in the hand might be seen as good enough, though you may angle for a counter offer.

Oh yeah, fun fact, in my former and current job every year we get invited to a town halls with some executive and every year we hear the complaints that we can't keep employees.
Every year I ask the same question, "We keep hearing that we have a attrition problem so why do we keep chasing the industry standard for pay and benefits, why can't we adjust our pay scale and promotion process to actual reward performance to actually keep our high performers?"
Every year, is a non-answer, nothing changes, we lose good people and only keep our industry standard people.
Though it was funny that since I'm on multiple projects/teams I did get the same speil multiple times from the same person and the third time in two years I got called I didn't even have to ask before I got the boiler plate.

As a capitalist I don't understand why it wouldn't be about the money
- In my experience, they're thinking 20-30 cents per hour. And yah, that's never enough to change someone's mind. 20-30% that could make a difference, but it's way too much for them to ever concider.
  
  They'll consider it if they know someone else is willing to pay it. I got headhunted a couple years ago by a place willing to pay me 50% more than I made to work remotely doing generally the same thing I was already doing in-office. There were more responsibilities, though, so I wanted to stick with my current job if I could get them to match the offer. I took it to my boss, and he agreed to match the pay, and even talked the CEO into letting me work remotely when they otherwise have a pretty strong push toward in-office work.
  Now I get paid more than my own supervisor while working a pretty cushy job in my pajamas.

If they put a ping pong table anywhere within earshot of my desk I’m going apeshit

How about giving them a raise in pay, and if they really want it, they can buy the ping-pong table out of their own pocket flips desk
- That's stupid. Wouldn't the smarter thing to do be to buy the ping pong table and Dock everyone's pay because of it? That ping pong table cost the company a fortune. And no, those bite marks on the leg of pool table aren't from my dog/s
  
  I think I am bad at capitalism.

I never left a job just to make more money. But I have left managers who weren't looking out for me, and happened to make more money in the process.

This totally doesn't look like something fake with its lack of source or context that was just made to spark rage, not at all
- If definitely seen shit like this on menial job applications in the past. Typically as pary of a "personality test" that tries to root out commies. USA obv

I thought this was chatgpt for a second because I didn't want to believe anyone but ai could be this tone deaf. then I remembered humans and got depressed

Capitalism stops when it comes to salary. Then it's all about culture and warm fuzzy feelings. Those are the only incentives an employee needs.

It'd such a bad feedback loop. Employees don't always feel safe being honest at exit interviews, so they say what they think HR wants to hear and HR just takes it as fact. Then they build training like this based off what Former employees felt safe telling HR and the cycle continues.
The ping ping table at least lasts longer than a pizza party, but it's no more significant. When retiring, nobody wishes they ate more pizza or played more ping pong at work. They wish they had been able to grow and make more money so they'd be better taken care of.
- Here's a pingpong table. If you are fit enough to play after a 10h shift, knock yourself out. Except that the office closes when you finished your work so, no, it's just decoration.
  
  If it was a Foosball table, it could at least be used as a makeshift coat rack

If a company is paying competitive wages then when an employee quits it isn't because of pay.
If a company is paying low wages it will probably be because of the pay that a person quits, because there is nothing to keep them putting up with the bs that EVERY COMPANY HAS.

It's especially morbid when the CAPITALISTS try to get you to "care about our totally noble mission, not what you get paid."
The irony being that the mission is always to make the capitalist owners more money as the only priority. You, on the other hand, should just see making them money as its own reward, you lucky little capital battery.
It's like being scolded about the intrinsic value of human life... by Jeffrey Dahmer.

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