1y ago

The Welsh disagree.

96 comments

dead language
If people learn it, and people use it, it is by definition not a dead language.
This is some colonialist BS.
- Also, over half a million Welsh speakers exist in Wales, accounting for roughly 20% of the population. It's hardly dead.
- Well Latin is a dead language, people do learn and use it. But there is no new words, or evolution of the language.
  
  Not really, there is an office at the Vatican charged with maintaining orthodox Latin, and they are also responsible for neologisms for contemporary concepts, so that they can weigh in on cell phones, hot dogs, or weapons of mass destruction.
  https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/institutions_connected/latinitas/documents/rc_latinitas_20040601_lexicon_it.html
  One example:
  "hot pants" -> "brevíssimae bracae femíneae"
- Also, isn't Welsh the Celtic language with the most native speakers?
- Resurrected Language might be a better way to put it, the Welsh that people speak today is mostly an academic construction (which also applies to French and Portuguese, that isn't meant as an insult).
  
  what do you mean about french and portuguese being academic reconstructions?
  
  For French it is an insult. Descriptivism is lame
  
  It does not apply to Portuguese.
  
  Modern Hebrew is another good example of this. Possibly the most successful language revitalization project of all time.

Proposal:
Force the English to learn Welsh and rename the English language to American
- 🇬🇧 English (Traditional)
  🇺🇲 English (Simplified)
  
  It's funny because it's backwards (verbally, spelling is it's own thing)
- Canada: throws chair
  
  Yeah, let's rename it to Canadian.
  Edit: Be the change you want to see, tell your instance admin to run this SQL query: UPDATE language SET name = 'Canadian' WHERE id = 37

"Dead language"
Dude it doesn't count if you're literally killing the language on purpose
- It's also not a dead language by any stretch of the imagination. Even latin isn't technically a dead language since it is still used.
  Imperialists calling something dead is often just wishful thinking.
  
  A dead language is one that isn’t used by real people everyday, not a language some academics can still speak.
  That’s why Welsh and Irish are basically considered dead to many because the native speakers are so few that it could disappear very easily.
  Also who the fuck speaks Latin still? Does the papal city place in Italy even speak that during it’s day to do going ons?
- Yup. Wish my Welsh grandfather could’ve lived to see this.
- “Just seen”
  “Just saw” is accepted shorthand for “I/we just saw…” “I have seen…” is acceptable if you’re saying that you’ve watched a movie 27 times.
  Even substituting in “I just have seen” in the OP doesn’t make grammatical sense to me.
  The guy should probably worry more about his own English than other people’s Welsh.
  
  Just registered on Lemmy at last to pitch in! "I've just xyz" is much more common in most Englishes than "I just xyz", because the present perfect tense implies some connection to the present, hence "present perfect", and is perfectly correct English. The author has simply omitted "I've", which is common in colloquial speech. This is also common in Dutch, a closely related language that I speak every day as a second language, if that helps legitimise it for anyone: "net gezien" as shorthand for "ik heb net gezien". In fact, while there are a number of problems with the post, none of them are ("none of them is" for the pedants) grammatical. I assume from the English in your post that it's not your first language so hopefully this is more helpful than annoying.
  For reference: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/grammar/online-grammar/present-perfect-simple-with-just-already-and-yet
  
  "Just seen" is an example of a participle element of English tenses that doesn't align with the formal rules of the English language but has become common colloquialism in many English dialects.
  The correct tense concept to classify it under is past-present tense. Not past tence or present tence, as it's talking about a past event from the perspective of the present.
  
  “Just seen” sounds just fine to my Canadian ear. They’ve omitted the “I’ve” but it doesn’t matter.
  The phrase “I just have seen” though sounds choppy and backwards.
  
  Way to jump to conclusions.
  They’re saying the English are killing the Welsh language, not that their grammar is killing English.

The Brits did not learn from their last open vote I see.
- They should have stopped at Boaty McBoatface, really.
  
  No, keep it going, ruin the fucking toastbeaners.

Anyone who thinks Welsh is a dead language clearly has never visited West or North Wales.

Typical unionist. Adores the kingdom but hates all the different cultures inside of it.
- Bet they're also missing the heydays of the empire.

Wel, shit
- Yoons typically bang on about the importance of conservation of tradition, UK culture and values but are incredibly quick to deny its national languages. Usually as they see this as a threat to the union instead of something wonderful to protect and promote in modern Britain.
  You should see some of the rhetoric on twitter regarding dual road signs. Some madlad got lost driving to Fort William as the sign also says An Gearasdan.

This seems like rage bait. The smug british stereotype is too perfect.
- It is as well as being in old repost

Bring back Cornish and the other minority languages too. Who knows, it might make the place more tolerant of other cultures.
- EU used to provide almost all the funding for preserving, teaching and promotion of Cornish. After Brexit, Cornwall is now getting less than half the funding that EU would have provided.

Calling Welsh a dead language in Wales that should be abandoned is like calling Bisaya a dead language in Mindanao
- The what where?
  
  Bisaya, in Mindanao

Welsh here. Not everyone speaks it, but that's because the English (even as late at the 1950's) used the school system to literally beat it out of us (look up the Welsh Not). Even with that concerted effort to force the language out, it's growing again after a few generations have passed. Being from the south, I know relatively few people who speak it fluently, but I know exactly 0 people who would actually want it abolished.
- My cousin is dating a guy who’s first language is welsh. His family live basically at the base of Snowdonia. He is fluent in English but welsh is definitely his preferred language. I thought he was a bit aloof when I first met him but he later explained he finds it hard to keep up with the conversation and be as witty and quick in English as he is in welsh, especially in a noisy pub. He’s in his early 30s and all his friends from home are bilingual but consider their native language welsh.
- the British trying not to commit cultural genocide for 10 Minutes (impossible)
- Not everyone speaks it, but that’s because the English (even as late at the 1950’s) used the school system to literally beat it out of Us
  Seems like the typical British MO. Same thing happened with te Reo Maori in New Zealand.
- The language revival efforts in the British isles are honestly inspiring. In Scotland a lot of people are making sure their children are educated in Gaelic, even though they don't speak a word themselves.
  
  I don't speak Welsh fluently (though am taking classes), but am sending my kids to Welsh medium schools (ie classes are conducted in Welsh, not just learning Welsh as a second language). We were told by the head teacher that 80% of the kids there don't have parents able to speak it at home, so does appear to be a growing trend. I assume the feeling is similar in Scotland and NI, if not as many schools teaching in those languages yet.
- If I had actually learnt/used the language then maybe I would feel less indifferent to it and have a connection to Welsh heritage. I don't think it should be abolished at all but I might be tempted to make it optional rather than compulsory for practical reasons (I don't hold that view strongly). Ideally we have more languages as compulsory.
  
  Nah the national language is compulsory in pretty much every country.
  Here in Germany we obviously have German classes, but also compulsory English and in many schools compulsory 2nd foreign language. For me this was the choice between french and Latin. Other regions have Dutch, Danish, polish, Italian or Spanish.
  So, no hurt in making Welsh compulsory.

Isn't Latin required in the British Curriculum?
Also Welsh is classified as a Vulnerable Language, so far from dead.

Thumbs up to the Welsh, from Québec
- Makes you wonder how many Canadian users are here complaining while also complaining about our language protection, right?

It's always the chucklefuck who only speaks one language that wants to abolish "dead" languages.

I love seeing prpaganda campains fail publicly

What an idiot this guy must be... Did it cross his mind that Welsh people are also tax payers? ...

I bet he speaks only one language. What a moron!

One on hand the language is practically dead and won't replace English as the language of business and diplomacy in Wales, but on the other hand preserving a dying language is cool. So idk I'm torn.

96 comments