1y ago

Women in China are telling each other to bring their boyfriends to see 'Barbie' — and to use it as a litmus test for their thoughts on feminism and patriarchy

www.insider.com Women in China are telling each other to bring their boyfriends to see 'Barbie' — and to use it as a litmus test for their thoughts on feminism and patriarchy

One user on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu shared a guide for how women can test their boyfriends based on their reaction to the film.

Women in China are telling each other to bring their boyfriends to see 'Barbie' — and to use it as a litmus test for their thoughts on feminism and patriarchy

For some women in China, "Barbie" is more than just a movie — it's also a litmus test for their partner's views on feminism and patriarchy.

The movie has prompted intense social media discussion online, media outlets Sixth Tone and the China Project reported this week, prompting women to discuss their own dating experiences.

One user on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu — a photo-sharing site similar to Instagram that's mostly used by Gen Z women — even shared a guide on Monday for how women can test their boyfriends based on their reaction to the film.

According to the guide, if a man shows hatred for "Barbie" and slams female directors after they leave the theatre, then this man is "stingy" and a "toxic chauvinist," according to Insider's translation of the post. Conversely, if a man understands even half of the movie's themes, "then he is likely a normal guy with normal values and stable emotions," the user wrote.

Feminism @beehaw.org

Women in China are telling each other to bring their boyfriends to see 'Barbie' — and to use it as a litmus test for their thoughts on feminism and patriarchy

www.insider.com /barbie-movie-women-litmus-test-feminism-patriarchy-china-2023-7

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444 comments

Women in the US are doing that too.
I guess it works, to a point. If your man throws a Shapiro-esque fit over this movie he probably isn't great to be around the rest of the time.
- His critique of it is basically that it's too "woke" but he really has nothing to say about the essential elements of any movie (plot, tone, character development, etc). He's either unable or unwilling to separate politics from his review. It's like he doesn't know a movie can be well made even if you disagree with its themes.
  
  If you ever have (unfortunately) heard of his absolutely dogshit book, then his inability to understand deeper meanings, subtext, themes, and to grapple with a competent plot should not surprise you in the least. Robert Evans, Cody Johnston, and Katy Stoll read it through on Behind The Bastards in a few episodes. Imagine the novelization of a Steven Seagal movie adaption of a Jack Ryan plotline. Combine that with how ol Benny really wanted, and failed, to be a screenplay writer, and it makes sense his absolute hatred for modern Hollywood movies that don't say all the things he likes.
  
  I mean, I think it's fine to critique a movie on themes as well. It's a key aspect that makes up a film, like effects, writing, casting, or acting. I don't think critiquing it as "woke" is invalid - it tells his audience a key facet of what they want to know about a movie. If a movie was coming out and someone reviewed it saying the themes were pro-fascist, I'd also want to know that and not attend based off of theme.
  I just like that a movie which, in no uncertain terms, advocated for strong, independent men is too "woke" for Ben Shapiro. But I guess if you determine your worth as a man by how much control you have over women, that tracks.
  
  Pretty sure he decided what he was going to say before he even saw the movie. He can't admit to liking any part of it becausee of his politics.
  
  I seen a video of another person dismantling his arguments and plot and character development is something he touches on.
- Shapiro-esque is such an apt description.
  
  The amount of concern a woman should have about their partner is directly related to the amount of Shapiro that is displayed when complaining about Barbie. I had a few parts I didn't like, but I still enjoyed the movie as a whole. I thought the car chase scenes were so unnecessary and terrible product placement.
  
  What's funny is Shapiro, himself, feels Shapiro-esque as if even he were not the genuine article but instead a trick of the light.
- Both my wife and i wanted to go equally. I wanted to thirst on Ken and I did...but on the serious note, its a good movie for both genders to see for seperate but equal reasons. Barbie gotta stand up and step out, be herself. and Ken has to learn what it means to be Ken without Barbie. This movie would of helped me not be such an incel in my formative years.
- What do you mean? I can't think of anything more stable than a grown man burning children's dolls on the internet after watching a movie based on a toy designed for 6-12 year old girls.
  
  Wait, people weren't joking about that?
  
  I don't think about him at all.
  
  Wait, really? XP
- What do I do if my woman does that though?
  
  Watch Oppenheimer, I guess?
- a Shapiro-esque fit
  🤣🤣🤣
  I'm using that line
- I just wanted to know where Ken lived.
  
  He's literally Beach Ken. Why doesn't he just live on the beach?
  Either that or ::: spoiler spoiler move back into the Mojo Dojo Casa House since Barbie cleaned it up for him before immediately leaving to be a human. :::
  
  My best guess is that Kens are all homeless. Mattel released many different Barbie houses, but not a single Ken house.
- It can also work both ways, by seeing how she sees the corporate feminism thrown around by power-hungry corpos only for the profit. Luckily, my gf and I were sharing the same "yeah, it's still divisive and murican corpo trash" mentality about the movie, while both of us saying that it was "almost there"
- How about a Shoe-esque fit? Lol. I kinda agree with her that if they were trying to make the patriarchy look bad, they failed hard. The Barbie's seemed to be having more fun in Ken Land. One of them even says as much.
  Also there's no way that Mattel would be upset that the Ken Bro-House was outselling Barbi Dream house. They're making money, they'd have leaned into it, not tried to shut it down.
  
  Also there's no way that Mattel would be upset that the Ken Bro-House was outselling Barbi Dream house. They're making money, they'd have leaned into it, not tried to shut it down.
  Regarding this, I think the point the movie was trying to make was that Mattel could choose to eliminate the Barbie line of toys and use those resources to create a product for boys that would sell better, but they choose not to. Even though the board (both in the movie and in reality) is dominated by men and they are motivated by profit, they still want to make little girls happy. Of course, they want to make their profit along the way, but that's commentary on capitalism
  
  You missed the point where they all lost agency and just became hollow husks of beings.
  
  It wasn't meant to be super biased towards feminism. In my opinion it tries to show a very well balanced take and just show genderism in general, and uses it as a gateway for some men to understand what it could be like from the other side. The end loses some of it's nuance with going for a mostly status quo. But the rest of the movie is a great exploration of gender issues in general.
  
  Barbie is an ad for a toy. It should not be engaged with as if it's sincere any more than you would an ad for sugary cereal.
- Alternatively, if your SO doesn't think you can be together because you don't like a movie, they probably are the wrong person to be dating.
  
  The test isn't if someone dislikes the movie, it's why if they disliked the movie.
  It's fine if someone thinks it was boring, poorly written, etc. It's a red flag if they go off on some misogynistic rant.
  
  Bet they're the same type who only dates people according to what astrological sign they are 🤣

I have to admit, Barbie becoming a Chinese feminist icon was not on my 2023 bingo card. Anyone taking bets on when we're gonna get a kpop version of this classic?
- The Simpsons predicted it.
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=gqeTb0j2nr4
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=3UiZLj_jC-E
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
  
  We really should have clients redirect to Piped by default
  
  good bot

Barbie starting the revolution in China? Hopefully other countries as well. Good timeline.
- Little Pink Cookbook!
  Little Pink Cookbook!
  Little Pink Cookbook?
  
  You've got to do the cooking by the book ¯(ツ)/¯
- China is already communist
  
  No it’s not lol
  Their political leaders are billionaires, the workers don’t own any means of production, there’s terrible workers rights, etc.
  
  Yeah and North Korea is a democratic republic.

I think if anyone gets mad at a Barbie movie or some random article on the internet that has nothing to do with them, that's a good sign they're emotionally unstable
- I'd call it emotionally immature.
  A surprising number of the people I grew up or work with act like they're still in high school when it comes to social/interpersonal skills -- these people are all well over 30 years old.
  
  I am only 42, but I work with a bunch of 60+ y/os. They never grow out of it from what I can tell. If they are like that in their 30s they'll be like that till they die most of the time.
  
  Tomato, tomato. If you're a grown ass man, emotional immaturity IS instability.
  
  I just treat most people like 16 year Olds and it tends to work out pretty well.
- People are free to be mad at anything as they please as long as they dont harm to other people.
  Or maybe people should not be mad at news article of Russia invading Ukraine for no reason?
  
  You are comparing war to an article on Barbie lmao I can't take you seriously
- Define "mad". I've watched it (arrr) myself and The Barbie movie is very political, despite them completely hiding it in the trailers and the promotional material.
  Fervent political media tends to rile people up, especially when it's very one-sided. I presume you haven't seen it and think people are upset over a light hearted comedy.
  
  It's only political if you think human rights are political. For normal people who care about other people, it's a light hearted comedy
  
  It's not one-sided, though. It argues that both matriarchy and patriarchy are not inclusive ways of operating a society. The movie did not shy away from showing Ken's dissatisfaction living under a matriarchy, just like it did not shy away from showing Gloria and Sasha's dissatisfaction with living under a patriarchy
  
  despite them completely hiding it in the trailers and promotional material
  ....
  
  If it's talking about equality then it's not political. People's lives are not political they are not objects for other people to react to. Touch grass.

I am genuinely amazed this movie wasn't banned in China
- Well they included the nine-dash line in the movies silly map (I believe Vietnam banned the movie because of this) and there's no zombies or Winnie the Pooh references so all good as far as the CCP goes.
  
  9 dash line?
  
  This is an insult to the free world. Fuck the Barbie movie.
  
  Tbh that map looks nothing like the nine dash map and there are only eight dashes. It's quite a stretch imo

If you base your relationship on a fucken Hollywood movie then that should be a litmus test in and of itself.
Also, guys, if your girlfriend constantly feels the need to "test" your relationship, then she's not the right one. Thats a massive red flag.
- I mean there's no harm in using a cultural moment as a starting point to see if two people are compatible?
  I think the language in the article and perhaps from the influencers is a bit rigid.
  I don't think anyone is suggesting that if a man has valid reasons for disliking the movie they are automatically exist. The idea is that the film is causing a knee jerk reaction in men who are otherwise prone to hiding their misogyny.
  I didn't get a lot of the inside jokes about the product. And the barbies and Ken's did not unite to kill Will Ferrell.
  
  The idea is that the film is causing a knee jerk reaction in men who are otherwise prone to hiding their misogyny.
  Why would a knee jerk reaction be any indication of misogyny? The movie is very antagonistic towards men. The proposition that having a negative reaction to that is misogyny is absurd.
- Wanting to test if your new boyfriend is a misogynist is hardly a red flag. The article doesn't say anything about testing dudes constantly. It doesn't even say he has to like the movie, just understand some of its themes.
- It's not basing the relationship off of the movie. It's just a way to test if any red flags come up.
  
  I think it's healthy to observe your partners reaction to things. Especially when it comes to things that are quite important for a long term relationship, like their thoughts about gender roles. If you organically went to see the movie and your partner is clearly displaying red flags from it, then that's just good (not the red flags but that you now know).
  I guess the trickery of going to assess them specifically can be seen as a asshole move. But I think it's a good move compared to alternatives ^^
- Sounds like somebody failed the Barbie boyfriend test
- because reaction to art can be a good indication to what someone thinks. For example, a negative reaction to the song 'Alabama' by Neil Young might indicate that the person thinks that Alabama is a swell place and people shouldn't be putting it down just because it's government is racist as fuck.
- I agree with what you’re saying except I think the Barbie movie has provided a unique and well thought out message that manny have failed to convey and finally feel they’re being heard.
- Seeing a movie with someone is part of your experience with them, through which you determine their personality and character, is it not?
  I agree that "testing" people is kind of toxic, but the idea that your assessment of a person isn't cumulative and inclusive feels odd.

I thought the movie criticizes both extreme feminism and male chauvinism, or did I watch a different Barbie movie?
- That's what the article is saying as well.
  Any gendered chauvinism sucks and patriarchy causes suffering to anyone.
  And if someone comes out of the movie angered by this knowledge, they can be a troublesome person to other people.
- Yeah. Barbie Was not the good guy in the Barbie movie, right? Like, even in the end they admit that they will not give the Kens true equality, just enough that they basically won't revolt again. People here calling Barbie a feminist icon, what movie were you watching?
  
  Obviously she wasn’t the good guy. She developed a nuclear bomb for heaven’s sake. To be fair I did fall asleep for a bit but I’m pretty sure I got the big plot points.
  
  That's the point. They blatantly say "someday, the Ken's will have as much rights as women do in the real world"
  The entire point is that treating people as second class like thst isn't good, regardless of which side its coming from and that we should all be equal. The only time I'd see men complaining about that is when they don't get it.
  
  Like, even in the end they admit that they will not give the Kens true equality, just enough that they basically won't revolt again.
  That example isn't really accurate, they say the Kens eventually will be given the same representativity as the women in the real world. That line is more of a jab against gender inequality than anything.
  
  I think that was the point, it's the perfect mirror to the real world. Everyone not okay with how the Barbies treat the Kens in the end should think for a second why that is and why anyone should accept the reverse in the real world.
  
  "Stereotypical Barbie" (the Margot Robbie one) actually seems to get it by the end. In fact, her main character arc was going from being like the other barbies—watered down stereotypes of feminism—to actually a feminist who has a better grasp of why just equalizing out positions of power, while still good, does not address the root of patriarchy.
  
  It didn't end up in a world that's ready. More like a mirror of the real world but maybe healthier?
- I take slight issue with your phrasing. "Extreme feminism" isn't an issue, that's like saying extreme racial equality is an issue. Feminism isn't about female superiority, it's about gender equality. The movie does not criticize extreme feminism, it criticizes chauvinism, whether male or female.
  
  “Extreme feminism” isn’t an issue, that’s like saying extreme racial equality is an issue.
  There was a time during the 2010s when third-wave feminism was pushing things too far and trying to create divisive splits on subjects that really didn't need them, like Atheism+ and a bunch of other things with a plus sign tacked on to it. Fortunately, once the #MeToo movement picked up speed, they switched gears to more important things.
  So, yes, you can have an extreme view on anything, even feminism.
  
  When your definition of feminism is "gender equality", you're right, there's no such thing as an extreme. When you take the equity stance and start treating people as groups and funding/defunding one group or the other you are building up new systems of discrimination instead of breaking them down.
- That is indeed what is in Barbie - if you watch it and actually think about the themes. If you’re just there for the experience then the message is (quote moviegoer behind my back discussing with friends): “goddamn, this is a step in right direction, we won’t change this patriarchal world with one film however“ :P
  On a basic level the message “Ken was silly, broke Barbieworld because he wanted to emulate men, they had to get Barbie and a feminist back to fix it” - and that’s what most people will get out of Barbie.
  
  On a basic level the message “Ken was silly, broke Barbieworld because he wanted to emulate men, they had to get Barbie and a feminist back to fix it”
  How did he break it? He basically just flipped the genders so Kens are the ruling/working class and Barbies are just subservient eye candy. Barbie just flipped it back. It's a broken and unimaginably unfair world in either case.
  When Kens ask just for a bit of equality at the end, they are shut down and given some unimportant appeasement as a joke.

Correct. Honestly, if a dude gets offended by a movie that says “hey dude, learn how to love and value yourself without basing all of your sense of self on your romantic relationship to a woman and you’ll be much happier”, they are NOT a catch at all and they need to shed some shit about their lives.
- yawn
  
  Have fun getting no pussy anywhere lmao

Of note....American conservatives/confederates absolutely detest the Barbie movie.
- China Stay Winning
  
  I agree that Chinese women being more progressive is a threat to the conservative Chinese government.

For those who saw the movie: do you think this test is valid?
- As a man, I would say sort of. The movie does not shy away from a very obvious feminist message combined with an unsubtle (hilarious) spoof of toxic masculinity. On the other hand, it's still a matter of personal taste. I really liked the movie, but I could see how someone would find it a bit too simplistic and formulaic in its story, completely independent from its themes. Not liking female directors in general just because they're female is complete bullshit though.
  
  To be fair it doesn't say the boyfriend has the like the movie, just understand it and not bash it mindlessly.
  
  I thought the movie was okay. The visuals were stunning the dance numbers fun (if you're into that, which I am), they did a good job leaning into the comedy world-building and the takes on Ken loving the patriarchy were the most hilarious. Overall I think it did a good job. The story was a bit meh though for me because of how simple it was.
  
  I haven't seen it, but the criticism I've heard is that the feminist message is a pretty obvious one and not very deep. I guess you don't go to the Barbie movie to "make you think", but I've also heard that the movie spends a bit too long on that obvious message and it gets boring at parts. I think the majority of criticisms aren't about the message itself, more about the execution of it.
  Buuutt this is the internet and the ridiculous voices are always the loudest lol
- I don't know I one should derive a scientific test out of it, but if a guy gets batshit crazy over the movie, then he might not have the best relation towards independent women.
- As a gay man, I say yes. I get to watch the hetero world from the outside and yeah, Barbie nails it. Folks just don't like the mirror.
- It's not a movie for my taste as I prefer to watch sci-fi, action, thriller or historical themed movies. So if I was forced or coerced into seeing it, I would probably hate it too. Then again, I haven't seen it so don't really know for sure.
  
  It doesn't say you have to like the movie, just understand its themes.
  
  I tend to prefer similar movies as you and I loved the movie. It is a VERY fantastical, intelligent, existential, and heady movie. It's one of the most expert navigations of complex social dynamics I've ever seen and has an absolute shitload of cinema references and easter eggs to boot.
  Don't let the surface fool you. The franchise is just a vehicle for Greta's ideas to reach a mass audience.
  
  I second your opinion and I'm a woman. I just never liked the franchise, no matter how good the movie is, I don't think I'd enjoy watching it either.
- I definitely think it would do a fantastic job of baiting out reactions and listening to what someone has to say about it after would probably clue you in on what stood out to them about it. Obviously none of these types of tests can be conclusive, but I'd say if someone came out of the theater super angry then that's pretty telling of something at least. A good starting point for further discussion with that person.
  On the whole I thought the movie was hilarious and had a very compassionate message for men at the end of the movie as well.
  My biggest issue after watching it has just been having to see braindead takes from people online, swinging in both directions. Lots of "the movie hates men" types but I've also seen a few "DAE, men bad?" tier takes as well which is a bit disheartening.
- I don't know if it's defininitive, but I do think it offers good insight into what a person notices when they watch things. There's a whole lot to notice and think about in the movie
- It kinda feels like you could come away with any interpretation you want. Like you could say Barbie put down a slave revolt, and its totally valid.
  So yeah, maybe the test is valid.
- No. The movie is very antagonistic towards men. I don't think anyone who has seen the movie can dispute that in good faith.
  Practically every male character in both the Barbie world and the real world is portrayed negatively. There are a few exceptions that are portrayed neutrally but they are mostly plot or exposition devices.
  Conversely, practically every female character is portrayed positively. This creates a stark contrast that's very difficult to ignore.
  To be clear - personally I don't care, it takes more to rile me up. But hating a movie that is deliberately spiteful towards your demographic is not an abnormal reaction. Neither is "slamming" the people who made it.
  
  Man here. I disagree.
  The movie is only "antagonistic towards men" if you think the Kens are somehow supposed to be a 1:1 realistic depiction of real life men which is something not only not textually supported but also actively and explicitly contradicted by the film
  The kens aren't stupid because they're men, they're stupid because they're Ken Dolls. Both Kens and Barbies are highly hyperbolic depictions of how little girls play with Barbies and Kens.
  Personally, I found the movie to be very empowering as a man too. I'd recommended rewatching it and trying to think critically about what the movie is doing. It's a film, not an after school special where every character is supposed to be a direct black-and-white representation of "thing good" or "thing bad"
  
  It's antagonistic towards the patriarchy. You completely misunderstood the Ken plot and are the one arguing in bad faith.
  In fact, your response is exactly why some people view the movie as a good way to see what an individual pays attention to and whether or not they genuinely understand what the film is critiquing and why.
  You failed.
  
  Do you really not see that's how women are typically treated in movies? They're just there to be arm candy to the men, don't have real personality or depth, and just exist to make the men feel good about themselves.
  It's just funny to watch dudes get so riled up about how kens are treated, especially when at the end the Kens do get their own story arc. Unlike how women are treated in nearly all movies.

My boyfriend and i can't wait to watch this movie 😊 💕 (but cinema got expensiv dudeee 🥲)
- I am sure it won't take long and then it will be available elsewhere.

Please partake in the culture war, don't just let conservatives win by default.
- By partaking means paying tickets and trying to make the film the best selling movie.
  Guess it ain't happening, so far.

Is it cool if I just don't watch it? It doesn't really appeal to me.
- The only reason I have any interest in it is all the conservative jimmy-rustling it's doing.
  
  This. I tried to buy bud light but it's legitimately awful. Seeing barbie twice is a way better option.
- Honestly I was the same way going into it, and after watching it my thoughts were "I don't regret watching it, but I wouldn't have regretted missing out either."
  The movie is great, and there were multiple moments where I burst out laughing. It's also a really bizarre acid trip, and I mean that in a good way! But at the end of the day, it's a hot pink version of The Lego Movie, down to Will Farrell playing a (less evil and more well-meaning) Lord Business. It's a movie made by women, for women, about a series of toys designed for women. That's not a bad thing by any means, and it's not like men cannot enjoy it, but it also means it may not interest you, and that's fine too.
  
  Is it really as critical of capital as The Lego Movie was? I haven't seen it yet, though I intend to.
  Fox Business, among other right-wing news outlets, were foaming at the mouth about how The Lego Movie was anti-capitalist. Search up "Lego movie anti capitalist" on your preferred search engine to see what I mean.
- Same, I just can’t bring myself to care about a movie that’s about toys I have zero nostalgia for.
  
  Heh. I feel like they would need to discontinue the toys before any of us get a chance to develop nostalgia.
  I'm not nostalgic for Hot Wheels either. I just go buy a Hot Wheel when I want one.
  
  I had no prior experiences with any Barbie-related products or media (adult cis white male in the US) and wasn't sure whether I'd enjoy it at all. After seeing it, i honestly think there's something for everyone in this movie. It's exceptionally well-written (very wry) and makes solid points about the current state of patriarchy in our society. It's really well-done. Feel free to wait for it to come out on streaming, but then I'd definitely recommend checking it out.
- Of course. I don't care for Barbie either, and never played with the toys during childhood so there's no connection for me. I went to watch with my fiance because it was something she was interested in. The movie was okay. Wasn't great, wasn't horrible. I think when it becomes telling is when people are somehow offended or pretend like it's the worst movie created.
- "If you love barbie you'll love the movie!"
  "If you hate barbie you'll love the movie!"
  Idgaf about barbie so I didn't bother watching.
- That means you are a misogynist through and through. /s
- Why wouldnt it? It's also cool if you dislike the movie, it's not cool if you dislike female directors "because of this movie"
  
  I'm being facetious. But yes, that would be very weird.
- My interest in upbeat movies has never been very high. If it were a thriller or mystery that'd be cool. I'd watch. It's ok we can pass on this one.

That's interesting. I read that the film was about radical feminism, but gender switched with Ken as the feminist to overthrow the Barbie-dominating system. Really look forward to seeing the movie.
- I think that analogy doesn't work a 100 %. But I guess you could say that the film explores something like that.
  But go ahead and watch the film. I enjoyed it very much.
- I thought the movie was exceedingly clever and is a shining example of how sometimes a message is more about what it doesn't say that what it does.
  That being said, the movie is definitely a rorschach test and you will see what you are primed to believe reflected in it.
- My understanding is that the film undercuts most of its social commentary and ends up a wash, so watch it for the absurd interpretation of barbie life.
  
  It's also incredibly ham fisted and decides to tell and not show. The jokes were pretty funny though.
- It's basically about Andrew Tate

They're allowed to watch Barbie in China? How censored is it?
- The world map clearly isn't censored
- I don't get why you'd think it would be censored? If anything the movie skewers US capitalism, so the CCP would probably be happy for folks to see it.
- Since a while hollywood has been making movies keeping china and its censorship in mind !

According to the guide, if a man shows hatred for "Barbie" and slams female directors after they leave the theatre, then this man is "stingy" and a "toxic chauvinist," according to Insider's translation of the post
Nothing against female directors, but the movie went from pretty damn good to pretty damn boring after a while.
You've got a fun and quirky beginning that makes light fun of barbie, mattel and patriarchal society. Then you've got the bits where ::: spoiler spoiler Barbie and Ken get to the real world, get arrested twice for doing stupid shit. ::: This part was funny and for a bit there I felt like it was mainly not about driving a message home, but still had SOME things to say. Great! Then you've got the parts where ::: spoiler spoiler Ken went on his own journey to discover patriarchy (which he thought had something to do with horses and was disappointed to find out it didn't), Barbie meets her owner's daughter, goes to Mattel HQ, then gets chased out and rescued by her owner. ::: Many hilarious moments here, poking lots of fun at patriarchy again, but it never felt like it was too on the nose. I mean I kinda expected that from the trailers and everything.
Where the movie started changing for me was when ::: spoiler spoiler Barbie, her owner, and the latter's daughter went back to the Barbie world to help fix the balance, only to find out that the Kens had completely taken over. ::: While the twist was predictable, it was still interesting because I wanted to know how they would resolve it. But it just kinda... fell off after that? At this point you have the expected low point in the protagonist's life, and then they figure out how to fix everything, but it was just so... boring and uninspired somehow. By this point, the movie's quirky and fun nature has worn down its' course and the

just did nothing for me anymore.
What's worse, I was expecting ::: spoiler spoiler the Mattel board of directors, particularly Will Ferrell's characters to be villains and instead they just... arrived by the end of the movie and had a change of heart. ::: That subverted my expectations for sure, but not in a good way whatsoever. Slightly reminiscent of the last seasons of Game of Thrones.
And lastly, I really expected the resolution of the plot to have something to do with horses and I was sorely disappointed about that too.
TL;DR: Movie starts out great, but foreshadows things it doesn't follow through on very well, ending is boring and sappy.
- How dare you, that dance-off between Simu Liu and Ryan Gosling (and the other Kens) was incredible!
  
  Ken was alright, but Ken really stole the show in that scene.
  
  I believe the term is "beach off"
  
  I was just waiting for them to kiss tbh
  
  based
- About at the part where ::: spoiler spoiler Barbie is comforting Ken on the bed ::: I said to my partner "It feels like this movie has been ending for a while now," and that was still a good way off from credits. I did appreciate that ::: spoiler spoiler Barbie and Ken didn't end up together, it was a good message that men and women both need to be okay with themselves before they pursue a relationship. I loved the "I am Kenough" shirt. :::
  A few issues I had personally (oops wall of text lol): ::: spoiler spoiler They really hold their punches on toxic masculinity. There are no men who are outright misogynistic and believe women to be subhuman. They're all just dumb and misguided. They also made a small attempt to point out that patriarchal society is negative for men too with the "sometimes I wish we could all have tickle fights" bit, but I do wish they would have dug a little deeper into how awful it is that men are expected to never have emotions and bottle up. It was also really weird that the kid called Barbie a fascist... It almost felt like they were using that word wrong on purpose to reduce its meaning, or get Republicans in the audience to roll their eyes at the stupid SJW calling everything they don't like fascist. Also weird that at different points the movie claims Barbie saved women or set them back 50 years...like, it's just a doll. Yes, a popular doll, but it's weird to claim women gained or lost power in society solely because of a doll and not through the actions of feminists and antifeminists. :::
  I'm general, I'm happy with the film's lessons, although it feels weird for Hollywood to be the one preaching them to me.
  
  Most of the scenes were pretty enjoyable in isolation. The problem I see is that it feels like they tried to combine two scripts to address the same issue from opposite directions. Either approach could have been good, but each one undercut the other so it just wound up confusedly sabotaging its message.
  
  Yeah, I overall liked the movie but there were a lot of questionable moments in it. The point where they recognize that using Margot Robbie for some of their points kinda undercuts the points was odd to me. I also didn't like the child of the movie, I didn't feel like she was really a character.
  I really like the fun energy of the movie, it feels like a giant music video and I love that. But the social commentary moments are just so on the nose it just feels weird that it's coming from a movie about Barbie. It feels like it can't decide whether the audience is supposed to be children or nostalgic adults.
- As someone who watched it high, too many drastic vibe changes. From a fun laughably corny movie, to this serious 10 minute diatribe about every possible challenge a woman could potentially face in her life really killed the mood. Many of the scenes with the mother/daughter really detracted from the film honestly.
  It's like putting jar jar in star wars.
  
  Sounds schizophrenic
- I fully agree. It was a fun movie to see but that's about it... they could have made such a good ending and set up a sequel
  
  Ehhhhh, sequel??
- I find your criticism of the parts of the movie you don't like to be super weak and unspecific. The crux of the entire movie is the juxtaposition between what's it's like in Barbie ruled barbie world vs ken ruled barbie world. It's literally the lens though which the movie criticizes patriarchy.
  Ken bringing patriarchy back to barbie world I don't think was a twist, it was the clear narrative arc from the moment ken fell in love with patriarchy.
  Matell being villains is a clear misreading of the plot from your point of view. Matell is the butt of the joke the entirety of the film. They don't drive the plot, and were never in control of anything that happens. Why would you expect them to become the villains? That's your own internal biases leaking (and maybe putting too much of Mugatu onto will Farrell)
  Lastly, in much the same way that the opening of barbie is an homage to 2001 a space Odyssey, (that scene they are parodying specifically in the original movie is about the death of old paradigms and the beginning of new ones), the beach battle is an homage to patriarchally driven war media, specifically D-Day scenes such as from saving private Ryan. It's the death of patriarchy subverted through a traditionally patriarchal approach.
  
  I find your criticism of the parts of the movie you don’t like to be super weak and unspecific
  It's been 2 weeks and the latter half of the movie wasn't good enough to remember every detail tbh, I just remember which parts I enjoyed and which made me sleepy. I watched Oppenheimer right after and have a much better recollection of that. I'm also neither a movie critic, nor even a native English speaker, so I don't really know all the jargon I should be using instead of saying things like "boring".
  The crux of the entire movie is the juxtaposition between what’s it’s like in Barbie ruled barbie world vs ken ruled barbie world. It’s literally the lens though which the movie criticizes patriarchy.
  Cool, I didn't criticize that at all though, I said it got boring when they started SOLVING the issue.
  Matell being villains is a clear misreading of the plot from your point of view. Matell is the butt of the joke the entirety of the film. They don’t drive the plot, and were never in control of anything that happens. Why would you expect them to become the villains?
  Did we watch the same movie? The Mattel board was incompetent for sure (of course they would be, they're men who only got their powerful jobs because of the patriarchy), but they were antagonists in the first half of the movie, would've caught her if she hadn't been helped by America Ferrera's character, and it was foreshadowed that they would at least... DO something in the second half of the movie. They literally started marching to barbie world to grab her as she could move between worlds and they obviously had a problem with it. Then they get there and it was resolved with essentially no conflict, they just had a change of heart. I could've seen them cutting a deal of some sort with the Kens to stop Barbie or something like that. You know, men conspiring to keep women down (which of course is exactly what the Kens were doing, I'm just surprised that the Mattel board didn't try to do it in barbie world).
  Ken bringing patriarchy back to barbie world I don’t think was a twist, it was the clear narrative arc from the moment ken fell in love with patriarchy.
  I guess twist isn't the right term. I didn't put much more than 5 minutes of thought into writing the original comment, and as mentioned, I'm neither a movie critic, nor a native speaker. You still get what I meant though.
  the beach battle is an homage to patriarchally driven war media, specifically D-Day scenes such as from saving private Ryan. It’s the death of patriarchy subverted through a traditionally patriarchal approach.
  Sure, and I don't disagree with the idea of it, it's just that by the time we get to it, we're used to everything the movie throws at us and it feels too weak to save the end of the movie, which other than this scene is just slow, emotional and boring compared to the setup. Going by the first half of the movie, I just wasn't expecting that much sap and speechmaking towards the end. Traditionally movies start slow and then speed up, but Barbie started fast and then kinda slowed down and that just doesn't sit well with me.

... if a man shows hatred for “Barbie” and slams female directors after they leave the theatre, then this man is “stingy” ...
Didn't knew there were that many female directors in China. Let alone having to watch their back to not get sucker-punched for it.
- if a man understands even half of the movie’s themes, “then he is likely a normal guy
  And when ask about the movie, if he says "she's hot" and starts masturbating?
  
  he is horny and you should bonk him

That kinda makes sense..

It is in my very unbiased opinion that is totally not a promotion (as that would be against strike rules) that everybody should see this movie.
Multiple times.

Someone tell me gf that I'm a normal guy with normal values and stable emotions please. She doesn't believe me.
- I believe you!
  
  Was looking for you here lol

Just commenting to beg the universe to get the “I’m just Ken” song out of my head.
- Anywhere else I'd be a ten

All this stuff around the movie is making me not want to see it.
I want to watch a movie, not be evaluated on my reaction to it.
- I went and watched it with my missus. We laughed throughout and didn't take it seriously, and there were no intense conversations after. I think I'd re-evaluate my relationship if I were being judged on my reaction to a pretty light-hearted comedy about a doll world.
  
  Now imagine if your partner got angry about the movie and threatened to never allow you to choose another movie again, and that you should spend more time working at the office to earn a higher paycheck.
- So go watch the movie?
  This has big "I'm way too cool and interesting to consume popular thing" energy.
  You can go see the movie and form your own opinion and not need to tell everyone online. You can even go see it by yourself!
  
  Are you actually insinuating that the person you responded to should think about things?
  The horror!
  /S
  
  See what I mean? If not try rereading again what you wrote.
- Nah, just go watch the movie. It's very funny.
  
  Alright. When it comes on Netflix or something
- I'mevaluatibg you on tour reactionaire right now!Talke that!
  
  I’mevaluatibg you on tour reactionaire right now!Talke that!
  Does that mean we can evaluate you on your ability to write sentences without typos?

According to the guide, if a man shows hatred for “Barbie” and slams female directors after they leave the theatre, then this man is “stingy”
Does stingy have a different meaning than cheap? Seems like a weird thing to infer.
- Seems like a language barrier to me. Stingy can mean "ungenerous," which kind of makes sense, but I don't think a native speaker would have chosen that word.
  
  Agreed, it definitely struck me as a possible lost in translation turn of phrase
  
  I really like "toxic chauvinism" instead of "toxic masculinity", though. Much clearer, in particular because there's only very limited ways to be chauvinist in a non-toxic way, the vast majority of those being tongue in cheek.

Out of curiosity since I haven't seen the movie but saw some reviews: is the representation of society (the way they depict it in the movie) meant to be like real life? Or is it more of a satire / exaggeration of it? Because the things that were described in the reviews about the "real world" bits definitely didn't sound like how things appear to be in most parts of Europe that I've been to (or lived in).
- The best satire reframes real life in a way that you suddenly see just how insane reality is. The Barbie movie does this very well and it presents real things that still happen every day all over the world in the course of the movie
- It's an exaggeration, albeit with merit. Tbh the whole film's pretty surreal. Funny as fuck though and worth a watch
- The representation of "real world" is meant to be an exaggeration of real life, both as satire, and to underline issues women face and systematic advantages men receive. I think that part was quite good at doing what it was trying to do, it was funny as well, and Will Ferrell is of course hilarious as CEO.
  What didn't really resonate with me, and kind of rubbed me the wrong way, was later in the movie, when "men" were portrayed as being simultaneously incompetent at everything they do, and at the same time manipulative and power hungry. By all means, it was funny, and got the point through, but I think they went too far in portraying the "bad guys" as both stupid and malicious, but also hard to overcome.
  I think the message of the movie (the way I understood it) would have gotten through in a better way if they had made the resolution less dependent on the "men are dumb" caricature, and played more to "women are strong", they could maybe even have brought in some "men and women can actually function together if they talk to each other".
  
  I didn't see the Kens as dumb or bad guys. They were toys who took wrong lessons from history by accident. None were bad bad, well maybe Mattel because of profits.
  
  when "men" were portrayed as being simultaneously incompetent at everything they do, and at the same time manipulative and power hungry
  Can't help but be reminded of something.
  
  You don't need to portray men as vicious to make your point about women being virtuous.
  
  I mean... both the kens and barbies where very dumb, not the main one since its implied that she got redpilled by going into the real world, but the other ones are dumb since they just do hedonistic shit all day and when the kens come with the "we rule now" mentality they kinda just accept it without fight, it takes the complaining of the mother character to spark discontent to the barbies. But its more because everyone in barbieland is kinda like an alien.
- Satire, Mattel headquarters is MIB/Scooby Doo crossover :D
- It's over the top exaggeration to highlight plot points.
  I didn't find the purported themes really resonated with me tbh.
  The sets and costumes were amazing and there were some funny bits tho.
  
  What would you say some of the themes are? Based on the trailer it's kind of difficult to figure out what the movie is really about.

Honestly everyone should do that lmfao

I feel like this is a transcript of a TikTok video
- Read by a horrendous AI voice and shared by far too many kids.

Do we know if and by how much Barbie is edited for the Chinese market? I'd be curious to see how different a movie it may be for them.

Classic. What countries have insecure men?
- All of them?
  
  seconded.
- Literally everyone is insecure about something.
- TBH came out of theater sad - I’m a bit surprised I don’t see more of these “if you don’t like Barbie you’re insecure” comments in media (so far just some Daily Mirror stuff so pretty much nothing). It’s a great argument if you wish to burn someone in conversation but a bit insane point to make IMO.
  Is “not being insecure” just letting go with whatever the entertainment complex shits out? Saying “I am a strong, confident person” and then just doing absolutely nothing out of ordinary if you dislike something? “Fitting in”? Sounds pathetic to me.
  I think this movie was terrible - not by production value (however a bit too much talking too little action for a comedy movie) but by being yet another one to divide to ever-smaller tribes. Yet another thing to distract from the have vs have-not’s debate. The means of production/economic system debate.
  No, let’s see if you like the latest flavor of feminism, up until another flick (maybe pro-life/pro-choice, LGBT or whatever) comes out and then let’s obsess about sexuality for a bit. Then back to square one while the actually important stuff just passes above everyone’s head.
  
  distract from the have vs have-not's debate
  We can debate multiple things at once.
  then let's obsess about ... Then back to square one
  All those issues are important. So yes, we absolutely should obsess about those for however little they end up being hot, because these conversations are important. They bring attention to stuff and can change minds which is an effect that lingers on.
  And it seems wrong taking "not being insecure" as "accept everything", it seems to be more of "not being insecure about discussing gender inequality and such."
  
  Class reductionism is a terrible and privileged take which ignores the plights of those less privileged than you, and even if you did win that way, all you'd end up with is a white supremacist hetero-cis abled patriarchy "socialism", because none of those issues will magically go away if we abolish capitalism but nothing else, the biases, like the ones screaming out from your comment will all still be there, and those of us who are marginalised now will continue being marginalised then.
  
  Thank you for the response! What is the important stuff passing over everyone's head?
  
  Wow, tell me you're a straight white Christian male without telling me you're a straight white Christian male.
  Sorry that the problems of us "others" got in the way of your safe little bubble.

I legit don't remember the last time I went to see a movie...maybe like...one of the hobbit films? Or a Pixar flick with my niece? My brain is so addled, I do not recall. Oh well.
OK, I just asked my way more intelligent and practical wife, and it was Dunkirk, with my crazy mother, whos now all into wild conspiracies.

Krystal Ball on breaking points mentioned it just wasn't a great movie and kinda ham fisted pseudo-feminism.
Idk haven't watched it, wife and I are both just like "meh"
- There's literal direct to frame exposition about expectations for appearance put on women by Barbie. Meanwhile, a fucking ripped and constantly flexing Ryan Gosling spends 90% of the movie shirtless. Yes, it's completely ham fisted and spends most of its time justifying its existence and letting you know it understands itself when it clearly doesn't.
  
  Ryan Gosling constantly flexing was the best part of that movie
  
  Sounds like a good time
  
  Did you somehow miss the entire exposition near the end of the movie? The Kens learn to respect themselves, do what they like, and learn to be themselves instead of attaching their identity to macho bullshit and how Barbie views them. It was a pretty big scene. Gosling comes to grips that Barbie doesn't love him the way he wants and that he shouldn't value himself based on how she feels about him. He even covers up with a tie dye "I'm Kenough" hoodie, ditching his fake persona.
  
  Because maybe... just maybe... it was also critiquing and making satire of the expectations from a ken? and emasculation? the mental effects of always being seen as a himbo? as well as how the company's marketing idea of strong women was also enforced without consent and thereby removing agency as barbies had to fit into the box the boardroom made as well as the kens? i feel like I hear a whoosh.
  
  Meanwhile, a fucking ripped and constantly flexing Ryan Gosling spends 90% of the movie shirtless.
  The movie isn't being hypocritical, Ken is supposed to reflect the negative stereotypes and expectations put upon men by patriarchy, and the double-sided sword male stereotypes are. Ken both desires the respect and recognition they give, whilst breaking down over the emotional suppresion and hardy appearances they force upon guys.
  Ken's Lines from the penultimate musical number: "I have feelings that i can't explain, driving me insane" "Am i not hot when I'm in my feelings?" "Is it my destiny to live and die a life of blond fragility?"

TIL about the Litmus test!

I almost went to see it two weeks ago with a friend of mine because we were also talking about seeing Oppenheimer afterwards. She cancelled due to a hangover so I'll probably wait until they're on streaming services.
Actually amazed the movie isn't banned in China. I thought that feminism and blatant capitalist ideals wasn't the CCP's thing.
- Excuse me ? The movie propogated capitalist ideals ? How ???

China has more women empowerment compare with other east Asian countries such as Korea and Japan.

why chinese guys even putting up with this shit?
- what shit even are you even talking about?
  let's assume there's shit, they probably put up with it because up until 2015 many baby girls were murdered and that dating pool is slim.

Sounds authoritarian and woke. I am terrified.
- Sure, fascists probably would be terrified about a movie that's "aware of social injustices and systems of oppression". They should be.
  
  Tis a joke my man.
- Woke has taken on a meaning of pretty much anything that could be seen as disrupting the nuclear family, heterosexuality, masculinity, and religion. Stuff that conservatives value. The term has been used as a catch all, so if you're using it you're not saying anything other than 'I'm conservative and think masculinity is important'. They aren't dangerous ideas to anyone but conservatives, which is fine. You do you. And others will do what they choose, like they have every right to do.
  Authoritarianism seems to come more from making ideas illegal, especially when it's about imposing values on others through law. Eg. the Taliban.
  
  Just a little joke.

This is just pure cringe..

A not-so-ancient profecy states that there will be a drop in natality in China in the near future! :)

What are those " themes " in that movie? You stupid women don't even know what is in the movie and here you are trying to lecture us . And why this movie is suddenly a " litmus test " for partner's views on "patriarchy "? You stupid wimps want to decide based on some random movie , if that man is a good person or not. This movie is obviously promoting some stupid woke ideas , trying to show how men are evil in some way or another.
- You're just making things up in you're head and getting angry at them.
  
  Go make your " partner " a sandwich and leave the logical thinking to men okay?
- asks question
  assumes because they don't know the answer that women(who are obiously inferior to their massive intellect) don't know either
  groups all women together as stupid
  completely misunderstands the message of the movie
  Good work, mate
  Edit: formatting

My thought while watching the movie was:
Wow this "patriarchy" concept is intriguing. It seems like it would be really useful if I hadn't gone through life avoiding any kind of power or responsibility.
- Much like white privilege, one of the things that makes patriarchy and matriarchy so insidious is that you do not have to directly engage in it in order to benefit from it if you look like you belong to the gender in charge
  
  I would like to think that my biggest accomplishments (at a major tech company for 10+ years) happened through making good technical/ideological arguments, listening to people's problems, and telling computers how to fix them, rather than my physical appearance. Whenever they asked me to be a manager, I was like "ugh, no that sounds awful."
  Then after 15 months of COVID isolation, I burned out and left. Now I'm thinking it'd be nice if I'd learned how to approach women and do standard masculine things. The world doesn't just give you sex for excelling in school/work.
  I guess my point is that a patriarchal society makes it difficult for men who don't actively pursue power over others to form relationships.

I mean if you believe the propaganda in it then most men prolly don't wanna date you anyway lol.
- Can you elaborate
- most normal 4chan user

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