Marx and Engels where both reviled by the mainstream liberals during their own time. Only in the late 20th century was Marx made like this kind demsoc grandpa that only stood for co-ops and liberal values who would have hated Lenin and Stalin "who obviously misunderstood him and Engels". It's also partly because of things like the new left and frankfurt school, Marx has his name slapped into everything from animal rights to art critique and other things that have nothing to do with class struggle and that has taken the edge off in the eyes of the liberals.
It's however absolutely right that all the bad communists, the vile dictators and authoritarians are those who stood up to the west and capitalism, fought the porkies, won, didn't get couped afterward and actually built something resembling real socialism. People like Lenin and Stalin are hated precisely because they succeeded and didn't get crushed by the forces of reaction.There is also the radlib phenomena where they are allergic to any contradiction in real living world. The further a revolution goes the more contradictions and problems there are to work through. So you can really be pure and represent "real socialism" if you never really tried or got a chance to put anything into practice or died a martyr at the early stages with untested ideas. If you succeed and have to test and develop stuff, fight and compromise you become a dirty creature of "not real socialism".
Animal rights has a place in Marxism
Animal rights are not defensible as a Marxist point of view. The basis of Marxism is working people and others marginalized under Capitalism joining in solidarity and using their collective power to overturn Capitalism and establish a dictatorship of the working class.
While animals are marginalized under Capitalism, they can neither engage in solidarity nor do they have any power to express in a collective movement.
You may believe that exploitation is animals is immoral, but Marxism is not a moralistic ideology, and there is no direct Marxist justification for animal rights.
If you trained a machine to feel pain when mistreated, desire freedom, and fear death; but it would still perform its function for whoever exploits it, Worker or Capitalist; there would be no Scientific Marxist justification for workers to cease exploitation of the machine.
i dont know if id put marx at that place, in the global south Marx is almost treated as lucifer lol. gramsci is funny because the average person doesn't know him
In the west, Marx is presented as being well meaning but completely irrelevant.
Unless you happen to be one of the people in the west the upper class needs to actually be able to understand reality, then he is crucial.
Like i have a lawyer friend who had to study both marx, engels and max weber as its essential to understanding UK law. If your job requires you to interpret complex social reality their is just no substitute.
I think that really varies by country and community
i dont know if id put marx at that place, in the global south Marx is almost treated as lucifer lol.
What do you mean? I can think of a lot of places in the global south where marx is appreciated
Hot take. Thanks
