Thinking about an EV? I would strong suggest avoiding a Tesla and picking another brand.
Thinking about an EV? I would strong suggest avoiding a Tesla and picking another brand.
CEO of Tesla and acting President-elect Musk is going on a neo-Nazi binge endorsing far right candidates instead of properly running the companies he's involved in such as Tesla.
In addition Tesla is considered one of the most unreliable car brands according to: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-placed-bottom-consumer-reports-reliability-rankings/
Moreover Tesla has the highest fatal accident rates of all car brands according to: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62919131/tesla-has-highest-fatal-accident-rate-of-all-auto-brands-study/
Also there are privacy implications with using a car that could in theory spy on you: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/massive-trove-of-tesla-files-contains-thousands-of-safety-complaints/
Now that more competent and establish brands are making EVs there's no reason to buy a Tesla if you want an EV. I'm not here to recommend another brand, I'm just here to tell you that your next EV should be anything other than a Tesla.
I'm eyeing Lucid right now, but hoping for even more competition over the next couple few years.
I hate Elon. I want him to get Luigi'd, but my Tesla is paid off and costs me basically nothing now except shame. So I think it'd be wiser to drive it until it dies or something happens and it gets totaled out.
I agree though, don't buy a Tesla. I've told all my friends and family not to get one. Anyone who asks me how I like it I just say it sucks and to look at other brands.
So which manufacturers should we look at? I'm in the market for a second EV right now. And this is my chain of thought.
My considerations are:
- Used cars only, I'm not paying 25% for the privilege of driving the car over the curb for the first time.
- No Chinese cars. They may be a good deal right now, but China is about to go do something stupid, like fight for the South China Sea or un-secede Taiwan. And then who knows what's going to happen with parts or if your car suddenly won't drive because it's a strategic advantage for China to kill as much infrastructure as possible. Besides some of the military installations (especially airbases) I visit already have areas, where Chinese cars aren't allowed in, if that becomes the entire installations I will have to walk around.
- No Teslas. I don't trust Musk to not revoke licenses or brick the car, and the QC is nonexistent. Besides I'd have to get one of those "I bought my Tesla before we knew he was an asshat" stickers.
- No Fords, that's just a rule of thumb for me.
- Range, I've had it with those stupid <50kWh battery packs. I'm not asking for much, just being able to go 300km at highway speeds. Going 90km/h and still have to charge every 150km sucks.
- Charging system must be CCS2 capable of 3 phases. Fuck Nissan and their stupid single phase type1/chademo solutions , there's no chademo chargers anywhere. And charging single phase at 3.3kW, when you're not at home, gets old fast.
I was looking at Renault Zoe, but after speaking with my local Renault dealer, who has a warranty order in for a simple spare reverse camera, and Renault for 6 months straight now, can't even tell when they'll be able to ship it. So Renault is out of the running.
So what else is there? Must be <5 years old, <20k€, and if it could have some warranty left it would be great. Hyundai Kona is starting to look pretty good right now.
Maybe a French brand? They have plenty of models to choose from. An ID.3 or the Cupra equivalent? Maybe check an European focused EV website like Electrifying?
People will always blast me for this, but German cars have better ride quality, interiors and overall engineering. Durability too. What they're worse at is total cost of ownership, because of the occasional problem with absurdly expensive systems. But there's a reason people buy them even at the ridiculous prices they cost.
My folks have a tesla, and it's ok (from a passenger perspective). Really put off by the console UX.
I'm considering the F150 lightning, and looking for any input on that idea?
As for why Ford instead of Rivian? I try to buy union for big ticket items like this.
If you can find the Lighting Pro model, that's the one to buy for 2 reasons: it's cheaper and it has more buttons
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Toyota built three factories in my broke-ass state. You can buy an American brand like Ford that's built in China and assembled in Mexico or you can buy an American made Toyota.
Generally yes, but the F150 Lightning is assembled in Dearborn, Michigan (I believe with union jobs).
My personal order: locally assembled > union assembled > locally sourced materials.
The first because shipping a fully assembled product is costly environmentally, and if it’s assembled locally it also is feeding jobs locally (which the second most important thing to me is union supported). Finally, the more locally sourced the components (which are easier to ship but it still has an impact), the more it reinforces those first two things.
Tesla is off my list.
For recommendations, in the States, Porsche and Lucid are the best you can get. You have a lot more options for electric vehicles outside of the US, in say, Australia or the UK, because of Chinese brands.
Chinese brands are affordable because they pay their workers slave wages. Fuck off with that.
That's very noble of you. I assume you are also extra cautious in not buying clothes made in Bangladesh etc?
I'm not not an asshole to them given the (safe) opportunity. I'm picky based on license plate number ("you knew enough when they began starting with 9s"). I'm also racist though. Live in predominantly Asian neighborhood where Teslas are like the E Class for boomer Chinese grandpas and some millennial families. After election/political conversations with several Chinese friends, I understand "that's white people bullshit" and they don't care about Elon or even think about him. Cool car. Save money. Status. No more, no less. Similar conversations about US/China relations and why many at least considered voting red.
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what the fuck this comment is attempting to convey.
Just about the only part I understood was when you admitted to being a racist.
I’m also racist though.
Well that's not good. I hope that's just a typo. If you seriously are I really encourage you to meet other people. Once you realize we are all human beings even if look a little different your life will change for the better.
As far as what you mention regarding people being apathetic towards Musk's politics that's fine. I'm objecting to buying a Tesla for two reasons. Yes one of them is Musk's politics but the other reason is based on the fact that a Tesla is an inferior product when compared against competing brands. If you buy a different brand you will get a better longer lasting car and will save even more money. Also regarding status: owning a Tesla is increasingly becoming a stigma so owning a Tesla will no longer be a status symbol.
I want some recommendations. Something with tactile controls and no subscriptions.
BMW i3. Been driving a 2017 one for a few months and am very happy. Winter hits like a brick, though.
If you're in the US, wait about a year and you'll have a bunch of better options from the traditional automakers.
The thing that makes Tesla compelling to me is their charger network, and Ford, GM, etc are adopting the Tesla standard in upcoming models. I think Ford is doing the switch in 2025.
I'm a truck guy, and the F150 lightning looks way, way more compelling than the Cybertruck, because they're making what I want. A truck that happens to be electric. Ford has been making F-series trucks for over 75 years and has made a pretty refined package in that time. They took that design, put in an electric motor and used the space savings for a frunk.
That's what I want. The revolution should be in how it's powered, not in how it operates.
The F150's design is nothing what it used to be, and it's a horrible car for road safety. But their branding is undoubtedly very successful, for the US-American market at least. And it's not like the competition hasn't been moving in the same direction.
1998 Toyota Tercel.
I drive the EV equivalent of this, a 2016 Nissan leaf.
It only cost 6k, 4kish with tax rebates, but it has a max mileage of like 70 miles. Perfect for our needs as a commuter car within the city.
There is a touchscreen, but that's just for audio since the gps and Pandora features stopped working after 3g cell service was phased out. There are tactile controls for audio as well.
I'd still recommend Tesla. Or a Rivian. Biggest thing to look at is maximum charging kwh speed for long distances
Most people don't actually use the full range of even a Nissan leaf in a day much less a tesla. I wish people would stop buying things with "but sometimes" mentality. If you end up wanting to long distance road trip just rent a gas car.
I live rural and literally drive 86 miles to work and back... A Nissan leaf would have me covered and be able to finish charging before I was even done sleeping with just a 240v outlet not even a fancy dedicated charger
I'd switch to an e bike but I tow my camper with my Model Y in the summer on road trips.
Yeah we know Tesla sucks
Are you actually asking for honest feedback or just upvotes?
If so, buying any used car is better. If you can get by with a 2008 accord, buy that. Better for the environment than any new electric. If you don't care about the environment and just want an electric for funsies, buy a used (whatever is well rated).
I'm not asking for anything. I just wanted to warn people so they are not stuck with a heap of junk from a company who's CEO endorses neo-Nazi political parties.
Better yet, buy a bicycle. Of course this doesn't currently work for everyone, but many people could live a better life with just a bike and don't even realize it. Deeply evaluate your own situation.
Better for the environment than any new electric.
Got any sources on that?
whats a good source of info for purchasing US-available, non-tesla evs?
Not in-depth, but a complete list with some specs to get you started. https://evadoption.com/ev-models/bev-models-currently-available-in-the-us/
I have Genesis GV60 and love it. I bought my son a Kona Electric. It's also great. Agreed that Kia, Hyundai, Genesis have good things going on right now
Pretty much go for only Hyundais or Kias. They’re all in on EVs and they’re fantastic. I have an Ioniq 5 and while it does have issues, every car does, and it has a tenth the issues that teslas and others do.
PSA: Some years of Kia and Hyundai cars have known vulnerabilities that resulted in many thefts.
If you are on the market now, I can recommend the BMW i4. They are desperately trying to get their name in the game and are offering ridiculous discounts, before the end of the year.
I recently leased a BMW i4 M50 and absolutely love it.
GM was an early alternative choice, but I don't have much but anecdotal evidence that they're good. I'm looking at a Hyundai, electric Silverado, or Rivian to replace my 10yo pickup sometime in the next 2-5 years.
Of all the ones I've test driven, none of them meet or exceed Tesla's "Supervised FSD", but that's a non starter because fuck that guy.
There's a reason for that. The FSD is what's killing people. It's not that it's impossible, it's that it's not mature yet.
My wife and I are really happy with our Chevy Bolt EV.
I also have a Chevy Bolt and I love it. I wouldn't buy any current GM EV because they decided to remove Android Auto and Apple Carplay, but if they ever change their mind and put those back, I would be happy to buy another one. Used models are very reasonably priced and potentially eligible for a tax rebate. You could easily get one for under $20k.