Monthly ration in Poland, early 1980s
Monthly ration in Poland, early 1980s
Monthly ration in Poland, early 1980s
Lmao 2.5kg of meat? Forget it. If you got any, it was a day to celebrate. You couldn't get shit for stamps and you had to stand in long queues to get the scraps that you could get. You waited for hours for a delivery that immediately disappeared or didn't come at all. You literally bought what you could. People used to barter the stamps and a grey market to get what you needed popped up. The only way to get what you wanted was to pay with dollars.
You sound like you were actually there? If so, please continue.
My wife was born in ( but too late to remember) a former Soviet state.
Talking with her grandma is pretty interesting. Recently with global inflation, some of the grandmas friends were speaking fondly about government controlled price of bread.
Then my grandma (in law) who still has more of her marbles than any 91 year old I've ever met said "lol, yeah that was the price on the sign, but there was no bread in the store!"
"Ooooohhhhh yyyeeaaaaahhhh....."
Note - a shitload of rambling below and going off topic, but worth a read.
Too young for that, but my brothers, parents and grandma lived through it. There's plenty of articles available about that shit though, if you want more sources. Personal stories like they somehow got a hold of licorice. I don't know if they managed to get it / it was available, or if they got it from my uncle who managed to move to West Germany. So my eldest brother went to my grandpa and asked him "grandpa, do you want these sweets?". Grandpa wasn't one to throw away food, so he said sure. Bro then went "is it good?" "Yeah it's good" "cause I gave it to the dog and he hated it". My second oldest bro bit the dog and told him (slurring his speech cause he was missing teeth at the time) "now you know how it feels". They both were hatching a plan to go into a "scary" basement together in the house. So the second oldest went "dude, you go down there first and scream if there's something scary so I can run".
I remember my parents telling me about how they got their car - the legendary Fiat 126p, "maluch" or "little guy". They were pretty well off, dad was a "supervisor of supervisors" in a mine - I'd compare it to middle management in an IT company? There were miners, "sztygars" (direct supervisors, safety inspectors directly next to the miners) and he was a "nadsztygar" which is "oversztygar".
If you want a "folk" song from Silesia - check out "Eye of the sztajger" by kabaret Nol Nejm - it's a song about a lazy miner who slept behind the digging combine (industrial machinery underground to dig the coal). He dreamt up a "leprechaun" type of figure appearing to him. Miners have a folk tale of "Skarbek" - a legendary figure that shows miners where "treasure lies" - not gold, but "still reflective / shiny - black gold" - of course meaning good quality coal. So Skarbek pops up in his dream, offerring him "something that's reflective / shiny like gold" and he takes it. He later gets caught by the "sztajger" (i.e. sztygar), shows his bag and he's been stealing lightbulbs lmao. Everything to the tune of "Eye of the Tiger" and the chorus going on about "eye of the Sztajger - sees everything, knows everything, has a notepad and notes everything, I'm telling you, crouched tiger, hidden dragon, he's not James Bond, he's not Kloss he's an eyeeeee, of the sztajger".
Kloss was another spy-figure, agent J-23, a polish spy that assumed the identity of a captured by the soviets german officer of the Abwher - german intelligence. A very popular TV series in PRL (polish people's republic, Poland under the soviet regime).
For an actual folk song (and not a meme) alternatively listen to FEET - Maglownia which is about a dude that has to wring out wet clothes his wife just washed. He wants to go play soccer with the boys after "szychta" (shift, usually in the mines), but his wife catches him and he has to "turn and turn and wring it out and getting pissed off, turn and turn, no way out, I'm not a dude that argues a lot, turn and turn, like an idiot, maybe I'll get to buy a halba? (0.5l, usually of vodka), turn and turn, I got blisters, I've had enough wringing". This one is incredibly catchy, you've been warned lol.
I got more stories from WW2, since grandma talked about it a lot in her older years. My dad was always rolling his eyes going "aight grandma, sure that happened". I had grandpa's parachuting wings from after WW2, sadly no number on them left for the amts of jumps. Now my niece has em in "her" lego bucket which was mine when I was a kid.
We have "A bridge too far" by Cornelius Ryan. It's completely unglued now, but the back of it has grandpa's address on it, when he was in an artillery battery going with the allies. He had something to do with Market Garden, but I don't remember what - for sure he didn't jump.
Fav story is Grandpa Johann (grandma was German, Johann was Polish, this is from her POV). They lived in Knurów, which is like a stones throw away from Gliwice (Gleiwitz) where everything started. A year before 1939 grandpa Johann and like four of his buddies were going to "guard the border" - get shitfaced drunk in the mornings, wearing "the uniforms from the uprising" (I'd assume the Silesian uprisings 1919 - 1921). They had one mauser and a pistol among the five of them. He also had a second uniform at home when the one got inevitably dirty from them being shitfaced drunk and rolling on the ground in the mud. They might've had more weapons each, but only brought one in turn, guess they didn't want to carry too much, and just have an excuse why they're away from their nagging wives.
Then 1st of September, 39' came. Grandma was cooking something and suddenly she heard "szzzzip, szzzzzip, szzzzzzzip". First thing she thought was "fucking Johann pissing off the German army again" (she used a regional word which could roughly be translated to "poke", but more in a sense of Steve Irwin in South Park "jamming a thumb up its ass" type of poke). Then she saw grandpa Johann in his full glory, jumping over fences. She said "how mighty he looked, fit like a gazelle, only slightly stumbling from the vodka". Then she noticed the Germans in "their beautiful long coats, with even longer carabines". She said they went after Johann and his buddies, but by the time they cleared the first fence with their long coats and guns "the mighty Johann Gazzelle was so deep in the woods they never found him". She panicked, grabbed the second uniform he had and stuffed it into the small oven for cooking, so it'd burn down. She also grabbed the pistol he had (and didn't bring to the border for some reason lol) and threw it into the septic tank / the shitter. The small oven choked on the heavy, wool uniform and started smoking the entire house. The germans came to see what's happening and to put out the possible fire. Luckily she was german, so in perfect "Dojcz" (deutsch, german) she told them that it's fine and to fuck off lol.
Dad doubted grandma till one faithful day they were connecting the house to a working sewer system and didn't need the septic tank. So they pumped it out and found remains of a pistol, almost completely rusted through, but the shape was unmistakable.
Later grandpa was hauled off by Wehrmacht and forced to fight on some front (don't know which one, probably western). He had leave, went back to Knurow and married my grandma "so she could get some money from the government in case he gets killed". He later got captured by the allies and they started talking to him in german. Obviously he knew some (since silesian has a lot of german words in it, as evident by some of my explanations of words above). They asked him where he's from, he said Gleiwitz. "But that's Poland" "yes" and then the dude, in perfect Polish went "why the fuck are we speaking German then?" "You tell me". So he enlisted with the allies. My mum and brother made a map of where he went for a history project for highschool, dude basically went all over Europe including Italy IIRC? It was weird as fuck. Sadly I have shown this to my middle school teacher, he took it and forgot to give it back. But yeah, grandpa survived the war, went back to Grandma and my dad was born in 1950. No idea if either of my uncles were older or nah, maybe a year or two?
My maternal grandpa defended the bells of a local church during WW1 from being taken away by the germans and melted into ammunition. They were from the XVth century. There was a wooden church there, built in 1447. In 1723 they built a second wooden church in place of the old one, that burned down during WW2. The bells survived till today and have recently been shown off to the public and rung again, for some occasion. I think it might've been 90 years of the opening of the new church. If interested, google "popielow dzwony" - popielow is the village name. They defended the bells, then took them and burrowed them somewhere, then dug them up after the war and returned them to the parish.
Also my dad has a notepad from his youth full of stupid rhymes, jokes and naughty puns which I recently found in the basement. He said not to read it so we stopped, but not before hearing the best pickup line ever. "Mis" means "teddy" or "small bear". "Misie" is plural. "Mi sie" means "for/to me". So you ask "have you heard the tale of three little bears? You look good to me, take off your clothes for me, give yourself to me". In polish it's "podobasz misie, rozbierz misie, oddaj misie".
Edit: also check a comment I replied to this comment, about german citizenship and us being a family of traitors lol
I had the opportunity to visit Russia in 1987 at the hight of the USSR. It was a hell-hole. Communism doesn’t work.
Authoritarian dictatorships that move wealth and power to the top at the expense of the peopel don’t work. “Communism” is barely on the radar, you can stick whatever label you want on it.
1987 certainly wasn’t the height of the USSR
I had the opportunity to visit Detroit in 2017 at the height of the USA. It was a hell-hole. Capitalism doesn’t work.
That's like, half a days worth of vodka
And far too few darts
Meet the black market.
Seriously. It's what I'm buying for myself for a gaming evening if I don't want to get drunk.
0.5 liter of vodka? What were they supposed to do the other 29 days of the month?
Let alone the rest of the first day?
ah 12 packs of cigarettes and a half a litre of vodka. a complete balanced breakfast.
ah...
blin.
Sure, but what will you eat for the rest of the month?
Would they have been expected to grow their own vegetables, or did they just embrace the average young male diet?
I believe vegetables weren't rationed
What was the reason for rationing, was it inflation, unemployment, drought or what? I though Poland economy was free to do what it wanted, or was it subject to the same problems as the Soviet Union?
That is around 970 calories a day if you take 1/30th of each edible item on the Table.
It's not enough, but surprisingly almost half the needed amount.
If Poland is anything like the US, families were expected to keep a garden where they grew many vegetables and fruits, and often kept chickens.
Are you referring to 'Victory Gardens' in WWII?
If so, that's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, since Poland had been at peace for over 35 years.
You supplement it with potatoes, carrots, cabbage, cucumbers and other veggies. And some apples and seasonal fruit.
Things sucked but people weren't malnourished back then.
Also not shown here: gasoline was also rationed, as were cars themselves.
More on the history of this photograph here: https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/food-rationing-communist-poland/
Thank you for the effort, that was an interesting read.
Who the hell writes like this, felt like a student that had an x word paper due and added literally every adjective they could think of to pad it.
I find it funny that a lot of people seem to be assuming that this is everything that they were allowed to eat. Fruits and veggies have been completely banned, in this world! Haha
Fruit is often hard to grow, but simple veggies like potatoes and onions are a no-brainer. Garlic too!
Have fun obtaining them.
Sounds like a miserable existence. You're going to need a lot more vodka than that to cope.
Rationing in the early 80s is considered to be one of the major agitating factors that led to increased labor union activity and, thus, the eventual end of the Communist regime in Poland. Would seem that it was not nearly enough vodka to quietly cope!
I can see why. Like if I was flat broke, these rations would be super welcome, but as an ongoing totality of what I could have for all of my labor? No, fuck that! The people at the top were obviously hoarding all the wealth, which seems to always happen every time this form of government is tried.
12 packs of cigs seems like a huge luxury
For a month? It's just dried shredded leaves wrapped in paper, cigarettes are super cheap to produce, tax makes them expensive.
You didn't live in the eighties I bet. It was cheap back then and everyone smoked.
average smoker smokes about 20 cigarettes a day. so it's a little less than half of a monthly use of cigarettes.
from what i understand the ration was meant to supplement what you consume, not provide everything
Is 20 cigs a day honestly the average nowadays?? Mind blowing and sad. My mum who was an addicted smoker since she was 10 years of age and went through maybe 5 to 10 cigs a day.
I was trying to figure out how to make it work for week but a month?
Their priorities were fucked up. Cigarettes and alcohol, obviously, but more sugar than rice? Huh?
Also, lots of meat but no other food groups?
Elsewhere in the comments it's mentioned that these were just the rationed things; there were unrationed foodstuffs.
Rice is not precisely native to Poland... The staple food is potatoes, which weren't rationed.
Four and a half kilos of carbohydrates and sugars, goddamn.
For a month, that’s only about 600 kcal/day from carbs. Maybe potatoes are unrationed.
That's a starvation diet for a full grown male. Hell, that's even less than a very small female adult would need.
A loaf of bread is about half a kilo of flour, that's not much for a whole month!
I wonder why it's 1.3kg. The soviet union adopted the metric system, so it seems like an odd choice. Maybe Poland had a historical measure that size.
lot of problems, but not diabetes
Unpopular opinion: we need to ration electricity consumption as well as fuel today, even in capitalists countries. Because that stuff actually has incredible impact on the planet, and will (must) drive consumption down, so that companies / individuals start integrating "efficiency" into their thinking
I don't see any other solution to the "exponentially growing power consumption" problem.
I don’t see any other solution to the “exponentially growing power consumption” problem.
In the U.S., at least, power generation has been roughly flat for the last 20 years, not growing exponentially:
That's excluding our hard on for AI the last few years. Would love to see this updated.
I'm surprised by how much natural gas makes up the mix.
Power usage levels in the US, though, are insane compared to mother countries.
electricity is only a tiny fraction of energy use.
c/selfhosted has entered the chat
Power for the power god
time to self-host a powerplant?
Pigouvian taxes are a traditional solution to negative externalities, and they are often better received by the public than rationing.
Rather than stimulus checks we need to be using the money to subsidize alternatives. And we can just switch subsidies. Some examples of that include that by reducing cattle subsides we can subsidize lower emissions meat alternatives or even offer free classes on how to cook meals that happen to be lower emissions, and we can stop funding airports and put that money into rail systems, similarly by removing mandatory minimum parking and reducing road funding that money can be put into transit solutions that enable less car centric lifestyles.
This is what Conservatives around the world want and glory hallelujah we are almost there! The only difference is all those rations will not come from the government but from corporations paid for by the government.
Half a liter of vodka monthly? Aren't the Poles known for their consumption of vast quantities of the stuff?
Yeast is not on the list but the 2kg of sugar wasn't just for cakes I'm sure.
What they were officially allowed to drink vs what they did drink.
Alright, where are the anti capitalist tankies defending this?
This has little to do with socialism/capitalism and more with that fact that the economy was centrally (terribly) governed and most of the products were exported to the "friend nation USSR"
75% of sugar output exported to the Sovs while the citizens of Poland 'enjoyed' sugar rationing.
Comunimsm is not that bad! It only has a 100% failure rate, but that's the CIA/UFO/Soros fault!
They are in the same place where pro-capitalist liberals are when people talk about food insecurity in today's West, and let's face it, the rest of the non-Western world.
There goes the sweets! Now she’s even more annoyed!
Complaining about them when they aren't here. See? They're everywhere!
I can and do live very well off less than that.
You do realize that all nations ration as necessary right?
Here in the USA I can buy whatever I want, even if it's bad for everyone.
Is that not a lot of sugar for how few ingredients to use it with?
I imagine there are food items which aren't rationed, because there's no fruit or vegetables here. If you grew your own fruit and had sugar you could preserve it as jam. The sugar helps prevent spoilage. Or if you grew rhubarb you could make a pie, which would be pretty darn sour without sugar.
It's the cigarettes that kill me!
It's the cigarettes that kill me!
Apparently it's not just you, cigarettes are killing several people.
You are assuming they have land to grow those fruits and vegetables on.
Not sure. It may be that it looks like a lot simply because we're used to modern foods having sugar pre-added?
Sugar + yeast = booze
I wonder how they used it. Fancy baked goods the first days, then a rush to bake long lasting good before the perishables spoil? Did widowers ask family to bake with their rations?
This ladys eating better than I do
How?
With an average net income ranging from 1100 USD to 2400 USD, any average worker should eat better than this
This lady monthly rations amount to approximately 160 USD, while the average minimum wage workers spends from 260 to 350 USD worth on groceries
Which I really doubt is a problem, given that the median of the monthly income in usa is about 5k usd
They have almost as much sugar as starch, 2.5kg of meat, and no other protein?
I'm not gonna say that's anywhere near sufficient, but as a US citizen where do I sign up
To be ration-limited by what you can purchase? I'm sure that's a fad diet somewhere.
I might bring tankies out of the woodwork for saying this, but I remember one time a tankie told me that scarcity in communist countries is by design and it's a good thing, after I pointed out that people had to be on the waiting list just to get a car. What if the person lives in rural with no access to public transport?
I understand capitalism is wasteful, but doing the extreme opposite and making people wait to own a car or giving someone bare essentials is not a good thing. Having a scarcity economy is not good, especially considering that the Soviet Union produced more tanks than cars throughout its history. The American military industrial complex is rightly criticised for overspending, but communist countries are worse since the case is that more tanks were made than civilian cars. It means more budget went to the military than to producing consumer good. Talk about priorities.
Well if you really want to be restricted purchasing the maximum amount of those items then you don't need to sign up. Just limit your monthly amount to be as displayed.
Vodka and cigarettes are not necessities. Different times, obviously. If the vodka was being made either from potatoes or grain, even if of lower quality, those would be better put towards adding extra available calories for people.
p.s
This made me remember being told there was a time, my country being at war then, where cigarette packs were distributed to soldiers with a banner stamped on it that stated "Have a cigar and relax".
They weren't starving, most fresh produce wasn't rationed at all and was readily available. The items you see here are the just what was rationed due to supply.
Neither is meat or butter
Philosophical options aside, meat and butter are very energy dense food sources.
But it would make sense replacing that cooking oil with a large tub of universal purpose vegetable based butter: it would introduce more available calories, both for cooking and direct consumption.
I'm as anti-capitalist as it comes but how the hell would this even last half a week, let alone a night with the vodka, rice, and sweets
These are just the goods that are rationed/limited. These were the goods with the highest demand and lowest supply. There are unrationed goods that could still be purchased, like potatoes.
This makes so much more sense.
Didn’t know! I limited potatoes sounds good
The rice is about 6 us measuring cups worth, and 1 cup is enough for 2 people to have a meal after it soaks up a bunch of water (plus a bit little vodka and sugar for taste).
The Flour can make several loaves of bread as well, it's about 5000 Calories for that bag without considering oil added for a nice focaccia or butter and milk for a classic brioche.
If each person gets this then it can be sufficient last a week or two, but I assume it was supplementary in nature.
There's no yeast included though. Are they also maintaining a sourdough starter with that ration? Also a brioche would probably use up quite a bit of their ration for the month and possibly last about a week. Lastly, who puts vodka in rice?
One cup of uncooked rice does not make enough for me for dinner, I don't know how you think two can dine on that.
Pretty sure they’d grow their own vegetables
Can someone calculate the calories in that? I'm too lazy.
Maybe don't include the sugar. That's a shit ton of sugar to go through in month.
Ballpark estimate, excluding the sugar:
2.5kg beef: 6265 Calories
0.5l vodka: 1082 Calories
1.3kg white rice: 4743 Calories
1.3kg flour: 4732 Calories
500g butter: 3585 Calories
300g cooking oil (Google says rapeseed oil is popular in Poland so I used that): 2652 Calories
250g chocolate: 1338 Calories
Total: 24,397 Calories or ~813 Calories per day
Some other people online also did the math and came up with similar numbers. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37027027 came up with 33,063 Calories (including the sugar)
Nice, that was super fast. I guess it's probably enough for one person to survive if they practically don't move at all the entire month, for a little while at least.
Still not pleasant I imagine.
But what if I wanted to eat the soap?
You get another 333 calories from the sugar, add it to the vodka!
Looks equivalent what you'd get at a Canadian food bank nowadays that's meant for 3 days.
Oh, she looks so happy!
Now you know why people don't smile in Poland.
Hey, I'm Polish and I do sometimes smile. I am living in Denmark, dough.
Shieet i could down all of that in 3 days easy
You could smoke 4 packs a day for 3 days?
Easy
Yes. I'd also eat those bags of sugar and flour that I totally overlooked
damn that's like 8000 calories per day
Here's a fun fact, people generally underestimate the number of calories in a thing by 20-30%. Which you have also just done.
The total calories consumed each day if it's all consumed in 3 days, not including the cooking oil or the vodka, would be 11,145.
Wow, I see the sugar industry was as influential there as it was in America.
Was this meant to be supplemented?
That's a very good question
That's not enough butter. I would have been put down young for rioting about criminally low amounts of butter.
I thought I used a lot of butter. You use more than a pound a month?
Holy shit that's a lot. I use about 10 grams per portion of 1 meal, usually breakfast.
I don't eat that daily but even like that, 30 full days non stop , that's like 300 grams
What the hell are you guys doing up there with a pound of butter?
Oh no, don't tell me. I don't want to know
If you could even get all that, and if you could you had to queue for days
Is that like for a whole family?
The meat and sweets for the adults, the ciggies and vodka for the kids
Individual, I believe.
Well, the kids usually take the vodka.
Reminds me of the leftist venezuelan regime monthly rations in the form of cajas clap.
Absolutely disgusting food.
Thank goodness I was able to escape the dictatorship with my family
That catsup can go 2 ways. Ketchup or Cat Soup
Thank you for posting this. I don't understand what a lot of those foods are. It looks like a heck of a lot of it is pasta/noodles based though. And maybe milk powder? Where is the protein other than the canned tuna(?) up at the top.
That was it. No more than that. Worst thing is that almost all this products are from Mexico. Before the collectivists and leftists took power in Venezuela, we used to make all these products
Left to right
4 blue pasta packages, 200 grams each
4 green rice packages, 1 kg
4 yellow spaghetti packs. 200 grams each
6 shredded tuna cans. 130 grams each
1 oil bottle. 1 liter
2 red bottles, tomato sauce/ketchup. 220 grams each
2 orange packs, corn flour, 1kg each
1 pack of refined sugar, 1kg
1 white pack, dry whole milk, 500 grams
2 green packs, black beans, 1kg each
3 yellow packs, egg spaghetti, 290 grams each
3 red packs, elbow shaped spaghetti , 200 grams each
1 blue pack, lentils, 1 kg
Take into account that this is supposed to last a family of 4 a month. If it ever arrives.
Because it's assigned per family
Also, as most of these products are from Mexico, the transportation is not the best and most of the time they arrive corroded, open by rats, or with less or very different products than advertised
So yeah I'm glad I escaped the collectivistic hellhole with my family mostly intact
If you still gained a salary from work and could buy the rest of what you need this really isn't that bad
I don't think you got this for free, it was probably just the maximum you could buy of any of these items in a month. That's how war time rationing worked in the UK.
This was the USSR. They didn't pay for this.
500 ml of vodka? Bullshit, there was plenty of vodka and it was distilled legally and illegally.
This is just what the State determined was necessary for a person's needs, and issued to them as their communist rations. People could and did engage in capitalism to get what they actually needed.
Based capitalism, providing once again the needed products at the best price
This thread is basically:
Scarcity in socialist countries 40 years ago: pearl clutching.
Scarcity in capitalist countries fucking now: yawn.
Bruh, you can buy more flour than that with change dropped in a fucking parking lot.
Good so we got flour figured out. How many homeless people did Poland have in the 1980s? How many does it have now?
They can. And how many people have to live under bridges to allow for that?