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TheArstaInventor @lemmy.world

As an average OG ex-redditor, Lemmy needs to move away from it's base barebones UI to something like Photon by default, here's why.

As a strong supporter of open-source and community-funded projects like Lemmy, which prioritize serving users over investors, I believe Lemmy has significant potential, and that's why I am here. However, it is clear that its growth is nearing a plateau in its current form. Despite the surge in users following Reddit's API changes, Lemmy continues to primarily attract tech-savvy individuals, politically left-aligned users, and those accustomed to old Reddit. For Lemmy to reach the broader average general audience, meaningful changes are necessary.

The rise of Bluesky demonstrates the importance of ease of use and a user-friendly design. Its polished and familiar interface is a key reason for its growth and appeal as an alternative to platforms like X/Twitter. This same ease of use is what Mastodon lacked, leading to its initial hype fading quickly. The average user is unlikely to adapt to something that feels complicated or unfamiliar, and this challenge also applies to Lemmy.

As someone who started as an average Reddit user and became more tech-savvy over time, I can confidently say that first impressions matter. When users first visit lemmy.world, the default UI is often enough to discourage them from staying. Most will not explore the homepage sidebar to explore, figure out and switch to one of the alternative UIs available, which is unfortunate because a better UI could make a huge difference.

This is why I propose that large servers like lemmy.world adopt Photon UI as the default web interface. Photon is currently the best and most mature alternative UI, offering a visually appealing, modular design that feels familiar to users of new Reddit. It makes excellent use of screen space and provides customization options like compact and cozy views. Unlike some other alternative UIs, Photon is actively maintained and ready for widespread use, although in no way is it perfect, this can also help bring in more contributors to the project development.

While it is important to continue offering other UIs as options, I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user. First impressions are crucial, and the current default UI has turned off many potential users. If we want Lemmy to succeed as a true Reddit alternative, we need to prioritize user experience and accessibility. Thankfully today, Lemmy still continues to be THE biggest Reddit alternative, while our userbase is still considerably smaller than Reddit, it's the biggest of any alternatives, and Lemmy continues to somewhat be in the spotlight for those seeking alternatives, we can't let growth stagnate, it's high time we make the platform more welcoming and appealing for the average joe.

EDIT: The image I attached is from photon.lemmy.world, which I just realized is using the outdated version of Photon, I have updated the image to the updated current photon version from phtn.app. There are a lot of improvements made.

243 comments

  • Nah, the current UI is fine. We don’t need fancy shit on a link aggregator. Reddit went to shit after “updating” the UI.

    Your opinions of “good” or “best” aren’t the same for everyone.

  • As much as i love photon, i don't think it should be the default. The default lemmy ui is pretty slick and lightweight, even if it is kind of bad. Photon can be sluggish, and overwhelming for some.

    I think they should just improve the default UI (which they are currently), and leave it for the user to decide.

    • People who prefer old Reddit often say the same thing about new Reddit. While old Reddit, or in this case a barebones, simpler UI, is lightweight and "slick," the reality is that if we want Lemmy to grow beyond its current base of tech-savvy users, we need to consider a different perspective, one that focuses on the needs and expectations of the average user.

      For example, despite old Reddit being lighter and having its loyal supporters, 80 to 90 percent of users still prefer new Reddit. As someone who used to moderate on Reddit, I can confirm that the majority of traffic came from new Reddit, even though old Reddit was still available. This highlights how a more modern and user-friendly interface is often what appeals to the majority.

      From my personal experience as someone who primarily used new Reddit, Photon feels far more intuitive and familiar compared to the default Lemmy UI. That said, I am not claiming Photon is perfect. However, considering that most alternative UIs are currently niche and their development relies heavily on a small group of contributors, Photon stands out as a mature and robust option.

      While it is encouraging to see Lemmy’s developers working on improving the default UI, the project is still in its early stages and may or may not succeed. Why start from scratch or bet on something that is just beginning development when we already have a well-developed alternative like Photon? By adopting Photon as the default, we can take advantage of an existing solution that is in good shape, has significant potential, and can continue to improve with more widespread adoption and contributions.

      This approach would ensure that Lemmy becomes more accessible and appealing to the average user, while still leaving room for users to choose other UIs if they prefer. First impressions matter, and adopting a polished and familiar UI could make all the difference in attracting and retaining new users.

      BTW those who want to can still change to alternative UIs, nothing will stop them from doing so.

  • The Lemmy UI is easy enough to use IMO. Where the problems show up are:

    • Unreliable linking to other comments and posts. It is annoying to no end to receive a link to someone's comment and be unceremoniously ripped out of your home server and put onto the federated one no longer logged in etc... This behaviour should somehow be prevented
    • a quick reference to the text commands easily found somewhere (ie: sidebar)
    • I'd prefer more theme and colour options
    • Fix the text interface so it respects carriage return entries properly. If I want to start a new line directly under the current one (edit: AFI knew after 4+ months of use) there is

    no way

    to do

    it.

    Make it so a single carriage return is acknowledged and correctly starts a new line right underneath, or automatically forces a blank line between. This needing double entry is unintuitive and wrecks many new user's first hundred post's appearance.

    Finally, the premise: Lemmy.world should be more welcoming is itself undesirable. That instance is already taking up an inordinate number of users so IMO every other instance (except the awful ones, we all know who they are) should be using a better UI, not L.W

    • no way

      to do

      it.

      your can use
      two space at the end of the line
      to achieve this

      For the links, it's being worked on, should be part of 0.20: https://lemmy.ml/post/23245384

    • This needing double entry is unintuitive and wrecks many new user’s first hundred post’s appearance.

      It's been standard since the late 70s. Markdown inherited it from TeX. Actually the convention should go back even further, roff etc. and of course plain text files themselves. It is perfectly intuitive if you understand what a text file is. "Text file", not "word document". What's next, using > to indicate quoting is suddenly unintuitive? Again: That convention is older than the internet.

      It also works exactly like reddit. They use a slightly different (and I think non-standard) markdown version over there. If you want to change anything about it then you'll need to write a whole wysiwyg thing because otherwise everyone that's perfectly used to and comfortable with markdown, me included, is going to be utterly, utterly, confused.

      ...if you want, you can now imagine a rant about the youth nowadays with their smartphones and tablets unable to understand markup languages or type. On a keyboard. With ten fingers.

      Btw have you noticed the "preview" button? The ?⃝ symbol on the top? There's even a bloody tutorial.

      • While I am not old enough to have experience with typing in the 70s, in my decades of experience with text input methods I cannot ever recall one using this method of 1 carriage return being ignored. No forum, email or word processor (even WordPerfect for the c64) or Notepad uses this, so my guess is your experience is in some niche technical field which does not apply to what the general population expects.

        Most UIs don't even have a preview option, let alone need one, because they don't require you to have a stick up your ass to 'get' using them.

  • I personally really dislike new reddit and the Photon theme. I'd say no to any change to my main instance.

  • I'm fine with having less normies and an non-algorithmichal echo chamber of fellow leftists and tech savvy persons. These are my homies.

  • The rise of Bluesky demonstrates the importance of ease of use and a user-friendly design. Its polished and familiar interface is a key reason for its growth and appeal as an alternative to platforms like X/Twitter.

    I think many people use Bluesky instead of Mastodon because of its UX, not its UI. Both looks great (I think Mastodon even nicer!).

    I personally use Mastodon, but I've seen people complain about their experience with it.

    • The ootb experience is what matters to most. As people seem to just want it to work. I personally love the bare bones.. but most users don't really customize much or want to conduct a whole study on alternative apps or settings. I would be fine with polished and basic settings complemented with an advanced settings menu and other apps.

      • most users don’t really customize much or want to conduct a whole study on alternative apps or settings.

        Usually I just recommend

        They can figure the rest themselves later, but that's usually a good way to set people up

  • I think we need to actually do some new user testing, instead of endless discussion with nothing to back it up.

  • Photon is currently the best and most mature alternative UI, offering a visually appealing, modular design that feels familiar to users of new Reddit.

    What about Tesseract?

    https://dubvee.org/

    This is why I propose that large servers like lemmy.world adopt Photon UI as the default web interface.

    That's something to be discussed per server. You should maybe ask LW staff to open a poll on their announcements community

  • One thing to consider here is that photon as an spa does not offer great support search engines. Which can help drive organic traffic to lemmy. While, some may see it as a net benefit, from your point of view it's an great disadvantage.

  • I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user.

    How are you supporting that belief? Any data? Any A/B testing?

    I don't want to sound too harsh, but you have sort of marked yourself as a representative of "average OG ex-redditor" or "average joe". Actually, you refer to "average" quite a lot. But honestly, without any supporting evidence, it's just words to make the proposal more appealing or relevant. If we remove all this cruft (which might be supported by anecdotal study, but that should barely count, if even), what arguments are here that actually remain?

    Don't get me wrong, if you said that you like "something like Photon" more than the current default UI, then great! It is awesome that other alternatives exist and when people find them, it's great to share the review. (It's how I have discovered so much of great software!) But then again, it's all subjective, right? In your proposal, you seem to tend to state lot of these subjective opinions as if they were objective, which to me makes the proposal just far less convincing.

243 comments