4w ago

‘Would you survive 72 hours?’ Germany and the Nordic countries prepare citizens for possible war

www.theguardian.com ‘Would you survive 72 hours?’ Germany and the Nordic countries prepare citizens for possible war

Apps and booklets are offering advice on how to build a bunker, stockpile food and live without electricity in case the worst happens

Germany is developing an app to help people locate the nearest bunker in the event of attack. Sweden is distributing a 32-page pamphlet titled If Crisis or War Comes. Half a million Finns have already downloaded an emergency preparedness guide.

If the prospect of a broader conflict in Europe seems remote for many, some countries at least are taking it seriously – and, in the term used by Germany’s defence minister, Boris Pistorius, taking steps to get populations kriegsfähig: war-capable.

Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine has dramatically raised security tensions across the Baltic region, prompting Finland and Sweden to abandon decades of nonalignment and join Nato. Military capability, however, is not all: citizens have to be braced too.

World News @lemmy.world

‘Would you survive 72 hours?’ Germany and the Nordic countries prepare citizens for possible war

www.theguardian.com /world/2024/nov/29/would-you-survive-72-hours-germany-and-the-nordic-countries-prepare-citizens-for-possible-war

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56 comments

Smart, since Trump is Putin's No. 1 fan, America can't be relied upon anymore to do the right thing
- As an American, I agree.
- It's a disgrace really. He is going to end up pulling a "deal" with his "business Sav" and end up with appeasement for a directly authoritarian regime.
  
  It's why Republicans aren't concerned about tariffs on Canadian oil-- they'll just ship it in from Russia instead
  
  Birds of feather...
- I dunno, I think the issue is that Trump wants to do the right thing.
  Get it? Eh? I'll see my way out...

Germany: we need to invest in our Army to resist a war
also Germany: let's spend 835 million Euros in new parade uniforms
https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-ausgehuniform-ausgaben-100.html
- History is a closed loop
  
  That is fantastic.
- TBF, the introduction of the new uniforms was already decided in 2018 by the prior government under the MoD Ursula von der Leyen, and the new uniforms will be implemented step by step until 2032.
  Er erläuterte, dass die Modernisierung der Dienstbekleidung 2018 entschieden, dann aber zurückgestellt worden sei, um vorher wichtige Kampfbekleidung und -ausrüstung zu erneuern und zu modernisieren. Dies sei in den letzten Jahren geschehen, so dass nun auch das Vorhaben bei der Dienstbekleidung weiter umgesetzt werde.
  Zudem erstrecke sich die Finanzierung des Gesamtvorhabens bis 2032.
  https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/bundeswehr-ausgehuniformen-100.html
  
  Yeah, it's just striking how everything has so much inertia. Ukraine has been holding the fort for 3 years now, and we're looking at those immense budgets for useless stuff.
  Same with the bunkers, let's make an app to see where you can take refuge in one of the bunkers ... let's see... that can hold short of 500 thousand people country wide. That's fine, 1 citizen in 160.
- Yeah, but isn't part of that always black budget for secret shit?
- Today to 2032 is eight years. 180k people in uniform, currently. The Ausgehuniform is the service dress uniform, not the parade uniform (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_dress_uniform ), so more an everyday uniform outside of combat and.. Ah, hell, someone else put it maybe better: https://augengeradeaus.net/2024/11/neue-dienstanzuege-erlaeuterung-vom-verteidigungsministerium/
  Stop reading Bildzeitung.
  
  alright fair enough, thank you for clearing that up. i'm not reading that piece of shit of a rag btw.
- Germany is also adding reliance of China, which is basically the proxy war handler of Russia
  
  Clearly as German imports from China peaked in 2022.

Important context: Sweden and especially Finland have long had a defense model based around literally everyone contributing to defending against an occupation. The real change is they don't consider that enough of a deterrent anymore, hence joining NATO, after seeing Russia bloody itself against Ukraine for several years.

Germany is developing an app to help people locate the nearest bunker in the event of attack.
Why would you develop an app for bunkers that do not exist? Peak German
- Because it's not about bunkers in the traditional sense, but shelters. Subway stations, parking garages, etc. can be used as shelters, but are not bunkers.
  Nobody prepares for a thermonuclear war, but having bombs rain on our cities is unfortunately not impossible.
- Had the same thoughts on this. Other countries in Europe take this responsibility a bit more serious, for instance Finland.
  Also why an App? I'm sure checking my phone is very far down in my priorities list in such a case. I prefer Swedens approach, better to have info material printed out and ready with a bunch of other important documents.
  
  Because the German federal administration thinks they can simultaneously address the issue of missing digitalization with an app
  
  Because you can send an alert on the phone, get the coordinates and the person to the next shelter. There are early warning systems, so that is somewhat possible. Ukraine and Israel use such apps very successfully.
  EDIT: Obviously it should not be the only option.
- I'm more worried about the app being hacked and sending people en masse to the next target of bombs.
  
  Im wondering why no one realizes they could just make a map.

The netherlands have decided to ignore the problem of civil defence till it goes away. But at least we're investing in the military again, and we won the allied-military geographic lottery, so I do see the logic.
- Where are you getting that from?
  
  Which part? No shelters for random people: https://nos.nl/artikel/2546039-nederland-heeft-geen-schuilkelders-en-dat-blijft-voorlopig-zo
  And
  Defense spending: https://nos.nl/artikel/2507722-defensie-krijgt-miljarden-extra-te-besteden-maar-kan-dat-geld-ook-uitgegeven-worden
  More tanks: https://www.defensie.nl/actueel/nieuws/2024/10/14/met-leopard-2a8-gevechtstanks-krijgt-landmacht-gepantserde-vuist-terug
  And for positioning, well, really any map will do.

I hate it when video games turn real.
Although... Generation Zero is a pretty fun game...

really looking forward to a worldmap without russia.
- North Mongolia

Bet the orange is sitting back in his diaper wringing his hands in avaricial glee

War. So hot right now.

56 comments