2y ago

There should be a porn tag separate from the nsfw tag

There is a big difference between mild NSFW and full on porno. Suppose there is a News story with photo/video but it's a little bit graphic or violent. Nobody is jacking off to that. Maybe shouldn't view it at work, but in the library is fine.

Maybe it's a funny meme pic but there's a nip slip situation going on. No biggy; it should probably be tagged NSFW. Probably don't want it showing up at actual work. But I want to enable this kind of content away from work without a bunch of actual porn showing up in my feed.

There should be a porn tag. It's not the same as NSFW.

EDIT: The two main devs have done some amazing work here, but as I understand it they are totally booked for the foreseeable future. My rust chops aren't quite up to snuff (yet) and my frontend chops are non-existent, so it might be a quite while before I'm up to speed enough to make a meaningful contribution. In the meantime just thought I'd point out the issue.

71 comments

Agreed. I don't want all that mildly NSFW content when I'm scrolling porn.
- Made me smile. Thanks
- Reddit moment...wait no
- That happened to me once. I was using the random NSFW server feature on Boost when I stumbled upon some headless dude

I'm trying to create a healthy porn community on lemmy. And the hostility of lemmy towards it is worrisome in my opinion. People are calling for de-federating lemmynsfw, people file false reports on my NSFW-only communities, the majority of instances ban porn,…
IMHO, there should be only two tags "NSFW", "NSFL". (= Not Safe For Life, meaning gore) There was this running-joke on reddit last year "when I was younger 'NSFW' on /r/all meant boobs, now it's most likely a video of a bomb being dropped from a drone blowing up russian soldiers."
I don't think we should rate the degree of NSFW or NSFL. Where is the line? I assume a topless lady is NSFW, not porn. But is a fully nude woman or man NSFW, or porn? If it's still "just" NSFW, what about two fully naked men holding each other penises? Or a woman on her knees looking at a penis without touching it, with her mouse open? This is a very fine line.
I'm in favour of most european broadcasting laws: visible nipples are fine as long as they're not sexuality, but "16" or "18" rating is recommended. Visible anus, vulva or penis makes "18/Unrated" mandatory, whether there is intercourse or not.
I would translate this to lemmy to "anything with nipples, anus, vulva or penis visible is NSFW, regardless of intercourse" No grading of "NSFW" or "porn."
- From what I see, that specific post was only because it sounded like lemmynsfw would allow loli. For me the biggest issue is that the porn would occasionally flood my front page because of that one bug (that got fixed), I really don't want to see porn when I'm just browsing (but I have nothing against it existing on Lemmy).
  For me what makes something porn would be the intent: is it made/shared for sexual arousal. Something can be porn without any nudity, and you can have any amount of nudity without it being porn.
  
  Exactly. It is the intent behind the content. Full nudity does not equal porn. Covered sexual organs does not mean it is not porn.
- The biggest issue I have with defederating is that you basically exclude every member of that instance from discussion on other instances even when they keep their nsfw post completely within their own instance.
  If I'm on Instance A that defederated Instance B because it's NSFW friendly, then I also can't see comments from members of Instance B in completely unrelated comunities on other Instances.
- Exactly this. Regardless if it's softcore or hardcore, porn or lewd is nsfw. I don't mind that stuff at home, but even blurred out images I don't want my coworkers walking by.
  NSFL stuff I generally never want to see, at least not as someone I randomly scroll by
- Don't get me wrong, I think there should be porn on lemmy. It's great. I just don't want to get kicked out of the library. Or have a situation where I'm on the train/bus and some toddler is in the seat behind me looking over my shoulder.
- I agree that the de-federation and attitude is worrysome, but I disagree on your stance towards more tags. Servers that disallow NSFW now, might choose to allow NSFW but not porn. Servers that allow NSFW now, are likely to keep allowing both. Servers just don't want to deal with liability and weird protocol quirks showing people stuff they don't want, so they'll ban any category that's likely to include stuff they don't want. More fine-grained tagging means they can ban a smaller selection of things.
  I'm all for various kinds of tags to indicate why someone might not want to view certain content.
- The calls for defed was because there was some talk that you allow drawn underage content? That's not people being hostile towards porn, it's being hostile towards creepy predatory behavior.

I would rather see gore have its own tag before porno, personally. I don't mind getting smut in my feed, but I'd rather not see a corpse/someone die in the same feed/category as nudity.
Honestly, multiple nsfw categories would be great
- We already have NSFL
  
  Then OP's problem is already solved. NSFW means porn, NSFL means gore.
  
  Interesting, I'm still pretty new here, and I've only seen nsfw so far

Mastodon has a system of user-definable Content Warnings that hide the rest of the post and any media attached. Due to just how broad NSFW can be something like this may be a good idea. Maybe you're ok with nudity, but not porn. Maybe you're ok with porn but not (certain act/fetish/whatever). Maybe you're ok with violence, but not dead bodies. Lots to think about there. Defining all of these in advance or trying to come up with categories such that it is actually useful to everyone sounds like a path to madness and fetishes you never even knew existed.
These can also be used for things that aren't necessarily NSFW, but also uncomfortable topics such as "miscarriage", "cheating", or even just "spoilers for
<show>
". They're pretty versatile.
- I didn't know that about Mastodon. That sounds pretty cool!
  
  It is excellent! I wish more people would use this great feature more often.
  Posting about the current events in Russia is easier if everyone has the choice to see it or not.
  https://fosstodon.org/users/tcely/statuses/109423576478406730
- I think being able to block entire instances as users will solve this issue.
  
  Sorry, but I don't see how blocking an instance solves the inability of people to tag sensitive but non-NSFW content and the inability to explain why the content could be considered NSFW. Could you explain your thought a bit more?

Agreed.
I feel like a pink "XXX" tag would suffice.
- Lol you definitely got the color scheme "nailed" down
- Where is the line between NSFW and XXX?
  Nudity? Which nudity? Are nipples NSFW but vulva is XXX?
  Multiple people being nude at the same? A photo of a guy holding his penis to masturbate is NSFW, but a photo of a nudist beach is XXX?
  Sexual contact? A person is kneeling in front of a penis with their mouth open it's NSFW? But as soon as they hold it, it's XXX?
  
  NSFW = nipple.
  XXX = nipple with cum on it.
  GORE = nipple on the floor, separated from its human.
  It's pretty simple bro.
- And a yellow tag for GORE would be nice as well
  
  Ohhh yeah, or maybe like a nice bile color. Like a neon green/yellow mix,

"Not Safe For Life"
There's worse things on the net than dodgy porn

Nobody is jacking off to that. Never subestimes nobody.
- As they say, there is a fetish for everything.
- Came to make this comment.
- Challenge accepte... Wait what?

I personally like the roulette every time I make a risky click. Am I going to get some horrific medical gore that doctors use to desensitize themselves, or am I going to get cock and ball torture, maybe it's a sports illustrated calendar girl, or bread nailed to a tree. Who knows? It's the internet. A terrible place where you can't trust someone didn't intentionally mislabel something just to trick you into watching Rick Astley busting some sick dance moves to a catchy song.
I suppose they could make differentiating nsfw types an optional thing though.

You just look at the community name to determine what is hiding under the NSFW tag.

Simple, [Content Warning Tag]-(User Description Of Content Warning)
- Doesn't solve the filtering issue though
- That's how Mastodon does it aswell

I know I'm late to the game commenting in here, but I think it's important to distinguish whether we're talking about people merely adding descriptors to their NSFW posts or whether we're talking about a whole tagging system being implemented into the Lemmy protocol. Adding a full fledged tagging system to Lemmy similar to Mastodon would be a pretty big undertaking. But anything short of that would feel like a kludgey, bolted-on solution. The NSFW flag + user added descriptors is the only way for users to go about it for now.
I do think a conversation about adding tags into Lemmy is worthwhile because tags could potentially allow for a lot of neat things. E.g. we might eventually be able to start making custom feeds by aggregating content from multiple similar communities across instances. It would also let users filter tags they don't want to see at all (regardless of whether it's NSFW) or don't want to see by default (i.e. blur the images until they're selected). But I know the Lemmy devs probably don't want it to end up looking like a Reddit/Mastodon hybrid or just become kbin, so this is something they'll consider carefully. I think right now they're rightly focused on database and federation performance and the broader dev community is helping with more immediate needs like spam account mitigation. They've gotta stop the bleeding and get a solid foundation established before building major changes like a full fledged tagging system.

Full fledged tagging system would be cool and help with discoverability as well as filtering.
- So maybe a tag system where each tag also has a type. E.g. NSFW, flair, category, where each type have multiple possible tags. Also maybe some tags can be set by the poster and some can be set by mods or maybe they could even be set by the users where the top-n most chosen are visible on the post.

I'm thinking that having a generic "NSFW" flag and then a bunch of different tags you could use as modifiers would be better. "NSFW" would trigger the "blur/hide/whatever this" code, and you could filter based on #porn, #gore, #semprini, whatever, for the specific kind of stuff you're interested in/not interested in.
- I'm very defensive when it comes to NSFW. But I think "NSFW flag with mandatory reason from a drop down" (e.g. nudity, sex, violence, gore, explicit-language) is the best solution which satisfy both. That is actually a great idea.
  
  Just a UX nitpick: a drop down is usally for a single choice question but this should be multiple choice to avoid unintentional mislabeling.
  
  Someone should write up the feature as described and explain why this particular implementation solves issues people are having as a pull request on the repo. This would be much easier to implement than a custom tagging feature like others are asking for. Like yeah a custom tagging feature would be cool but that's a ton of work and wouldn't show up for quite a while.

I wonder if there's a way to block porn on main feed but keep a side one for when I want to see it. I like me a nice ass, but its awkward to have one shoved when I just want to check news and see prequel memes.
- I mean, people had "alt" and "throwaway" accounts on that other site for just such occasions. Not sure how good support for account switching is in any of the apps. It would also be an opportunity to explore another instance if you wanted (especially if your instance bans/restricts such things).
  
  Good idea. I think switching accounts in Jerboa is pretty easy so I might end up doing that.

I think this is the most important feature I'm missing. I want to see NSFW stuff but not porn
- The NSFL tag was a perfect use.
- I agree. There's a lot of content that's not appropriate for work, but that doesn't mean it's sexual at all. That's the stuff in interested in.

I think, instead of on/off filtering mechanisms like block, ban, de-federation, NSFW, etc, we should be able to share filtering preferences. Like, an instance curates their own and you can choose to adopt it or not, customize it, etc. Every new user would start out in G-rated land, and could "whitelist" their way to enlightenment.

Hey, sorry I'm late to the party.
I would be willing to have a compromise in the we tag porn submissions with a trailing underscore or another identifiable but not intrusive symbol that users can then filter out.

Gimme the option to show only actual NSFW-tagged posts for starters, not just every post that happens to mention the concept...

NSFW category tags would be pretty handy.
I'm rather partial to how Twitter does it currently, by letting users choose a set of NSFW categories, from a generic "sensitive content" tag, a violence/gore tag, and/or a nudity/sexual content tag.
Maybe they could be implemented as part of a wider post tagging system?

They are not the same.

71 comments