Wagner Group captures headquarters of the Southern Military District and the building of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Rostov, the headquarters of Russia's base of operations for War in Ukraine
"Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe."
Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince
"Windows are dangerous. Also, radioactive umbrellas" - zeppo, a Lemmy Member
A merc is loyal, until the last payment clears.
Or until Riddick is chasing them.
The Wagnerites also seized the buildings of the head office of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB department, the administration of #Rostov and one of the police departments, according to local channels. Nobody in the city understands what's going on.
How lovely
Like watching Cobra attack the Decepticons.
Can you explain the significance of these buildings?
Are they the head offices of those departments, or the offices that are in that city?
How powerful are these departments?
Nobody knew what was going on in 1968 czechoslovakia as well, when the russians came with the tanks. I don't really wish them any harm, but I'm glad they can experience the same confusion now. May this experience serve as a warning.
Actually Russians didn't come here. Soviets did, but not from Russia.
I doubt the people in Rostov are the ones who were in Czechoslovakia in 1968.
This is not a "war", it is a "special military operation".
This is not a "coup", it is a "march for justice".
Everyone tries to control the narrative, this is completely normal. Anti-terrorist operation, peacekeeping mission, special military operation, march for X. I don't remember someone who just said "yep, we are invading X".
In this case both Prigozhin and Putin (or the establishment) are trying to control the narrative to gather support from "patriots". Saying you are making a coup sounds antigonizing, while saying you are marching for justice, because it's the government who has betrayed the people does not.
I would like to submit "Putin panics and nukes his own people to stop the advance" for my Bingo card.
the latest resolution from NATO didnt say Russia cant nuke itself...
Any nuke west of the Urals is likely to provoke radiation that reaches NATO, and nukes east of the Urals would be, uh, insignificant most likely.
Launching a nuke would have to be the dumbest thing Putin could do. A huge chunk of NATO must already be salivating at the internal chaos.
I bet Polish social media is on fire right now.
More like shitting themselves.
Think of all the dirty bombs that could end up on the black market in the event of a Russian collapse.
Holly shit this has been picked up by the BBC.
Remember, it doesn't matter if they succeed or not. The fact it has happened will terrify Putin.
I feel like this might be on behalf of Putin.
Wagner has been pretty careful to call out everyone but Putin.
Feels like setting the stage for a claim that the war was orchestrated by rogue elements in the Russian military, giving an out to tuck tail and run and move toward easing sanctions.
Nah, this feels more like an "evil counsellors" situation - you don't want to take on the king directly, so you instead give him an out by saying that he's OK but he's been given bad advice. Which also means if you do take over you can keep him around as a figurehead who now listens to better advisers like yourself.
I feel like this might be on behalf of Putin.
Wagner has been pretty careful to call out everyone but Putin.
Feels like setting the stage for a claim that the war was orchestrated by rogue elements in the Russian military, giving an out to tuck tail and run and move toward easing sanctions.
It won't terrify Putin. It all goes according to the plan. Different forces are fighting between themselves to show who's more loyal to Putin, those who are not loyal enough are either falling out of windows or being killed on the battlefield. And those who are loyal are getting ludicrously rich. The amount of billionaires in Russia has increased fivefold during the first year of the war.
Army generals got too corrupt and too complacent since their success in Crimea in 2014, this war is a tool to put them into place and Prigozhin talks a lot so that Putin can put generals' noses into their shit to teach them a lesson or two while the public fully supports this. Prigozhin gets his piece of the pie in the process.
According to Forbes, the number of billionaires in Russia has increased from 99 in 2022 to 105 in 2023.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/20/billionaires-a80889
Yes, this is way too open. To me this looks like turkey 2016 "coup"
Breaking
„Ukraine runs out of popcorn“
https://twitter.com/war__online/status/1672535209038827521?s=20
We need to start sending popcorn bags to Ukraine
Send Putin thoughts and prayers and send Ukraine guns and bombs.
I welcome russian infighting. Hope it makes it easier for Ukraine to retake Crimea.
All the Nazi's who were "expelled" out of Azov/various militias could join up with Wagner and then they all take Ukraine for themselves.
my mind is so blown. i didn’t have wagner turning against russia on my bingo card
I mean Prigozin has been advertising his eventual turning against Putin for a while, but I didn't think it would happen as a full on military coup
My personal theory is that he never intended it to get this far (previously he never called out Putin directly), but a failed assassination attempt made him decided he has no choice.
I kinda had it on it when Prigozhin started releasing videos of him acting as a reasonable person to gain popular support.
savvy!
My father who is Russian has been talking about Wagner turning on Russia for the past 2 months. Dogs of war. So my bingo card has been stamped.
I didn't either, but history has plenty of examples of mercenary armies turning against their employers.
is it normally like this? for something akin to personal politics, and not missed payment or something?
Hmm not sure it's against Russia, more like against the bureaucrats that stole his ammunition
fair enough, it’s an important distinction
If Kiev has been saving something up for a special occasion, this occasion is starting to look pretty special.
I think this is a good time to continue what they've been doing, interfering with Russian logistics and pressing forward on the front lines.
They could make an attack on Russian territory (e.g. drone strikes against airbases, oilfields, bridges, or other suitable targets), but right now might be the right time to hold off on anything that might distract Russia and Wagner from fighting with each other. Nothing unifies squabbling factions quite like a serious external threat.
I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Ukraine ops to antagonize Russia as much as they can, while leaving Wagner mostly alone. That would also be a sensible strategy.
Almost feels a little too special.
The Ukraine counter-offensive sure is effective.
Can someone please explain what's going on ? I am out of the loop. I know Wagner was fighting for Russia but what happened now?
Everyone in Wagner was about to be conscripted into the regular Russian Army as the latest in an ongoing power struggle between Wagner's boss and the Russian MoD. So to avoid losing his private army, the boss has stepped up the power struggle to an attempted coup, basically.
The head of Wagner was unhappy with Russian military leaders and thought he'd take matters into his own hands as Putin was going to support him. Putin did not. Now there are 10,000 men heading to Moscow.
Thanks
Supposedly it is over. Wagner announced that they are no longer advancing.
Wagner switching sides was not on my bingo card
They didn't switch sides. They created a third side. A Mêlée à Trois.
Truly catering to every male fantasy.
To be honest I thought Wagner and also the Chechen commanded forces would cause chaos in Russia after the war - Putin unleashed the genies from their bottles in his desperation. Both see themselves as successors to Putin should he fall, and civil war was on the cards but more likely a conflict between Wagner and the Chechen forces of some form. I agree - moving DURING the war with Ukraine - that is totally unexpected!
But they've not switched sides tbf - this seems to be the first steps in a civil war. And it shows just how broken Russia is. The question is, will Wagner step back from the precipice after exacting some sort of price out of the Russian state? Or is this a battle for survival and so unstoppable.
The really really worrying this is when things get unpredictable like this, there is no telling how things could escalate further. Look at WW1 - the death of Franz Ferdinand helped unleash chaos in a way no one could have forseen.
Mercs are always on their own side first and foremost.
Purchased loyalty always has an expiry date, usually about 6 hours after the last payment clears.
They are on the side that pays them or that they see the most profit from.
Feel like no one has had any matching bingo cards in the past few years.
25,000 troops marching on Moscow. How many does the Kremlin have not already in Ukraine?
How many do they have not in Ukraine... Who are also willing to kill fellow Russians? If the average Russian military sentiment is, "Eh, let them through" this could be huge.
Plus a lot of the "Royal Guard" may be well-connected rich kids who are even less inclined to fight.
Way too soon to know for sure, but. 🍿
Yep, it depends if Russian military is loyal to Putin or not.
This is Ukraine's time to retake Crimea
More evidence as to why you don’t hire mercenaries. They are only loyal to the money. I hope the US is watching with their love of PMC’s.
Especially if you send the mercenaries on a nonsense mission to die a pointless death...
Especially when you then allow that mercenary group to release and recruit 30,000 prisoners
Generally, I don't like to gloat, but I did call that one ~ June 5th over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/140qkwu/destructions_incursions_%C3%A9vacuations_dans_la/jmyndp3/?context=3; in French because it was on r/France).
It actually is much worse than it seems - I did a write up over on Mastodon to explain why and how (https://mastodon.social/@andrei_chiffa/110599724720727202). The TLDR is that cities taken by Wagner mercs will be hard to retake without leveling, all internal protection troops are either tied or were lost in Ukraine, and mercs themselves have nothing to loose and all the revenge to take.
Tu avais raison.
It's very strange how things are going right now. The fact that they are quite effortlessly moving hundreds of kilometers through Russian territory is quite telling.
Holy shit.
Things are getting real real.
Its unreal
Ukrainian army called ...they need fresh supplies of popcorn...
If there's one thing I've learned from my history classes it's that power vacuums (or even perceived power vacuums) and the ensuing instability always end well for everyone involved....
/s
This became a possibility the moment Prigo started making threats towards government officials. As soon as that happened, and Russia did not recall and disband the group, a rebellion became an eventuality (what mercenary is going to accept execution from a state he is propping up).
I doubt it'll be successful, but it is a huge blow to Russia.
I for one welcome their new Military overlords.
Oh some good old /. vibe here 😉
While it’s always great to watch enemies turning against each other (Baubert vs MTG!), let‘s not forget that Putin is a mad man with his finger on a nuclear button.
I wish the best for the people living there who will suffer the consequences of a dictator who gets pushed into a corner.
And also what if Prigozhin gets his hands on any nuclear facilities...
If they would merely keep Rostov, a city with one million citizens, this would already be an enormous problem for Russia. But the Wagner group is going all-out, and I strongly doubt whether they'll be able to oust the Russian government.
This could definitely be a powder keg moment in some way.
People are tired of this war. Putin wanted to secure food reserves and have an open access sea port for his military; however he wasn't honest as to his reasons why; understandably so. Given this the Russian public doesn't see the actual geopolitical value of the conflict. This was inevitable. If Russia couldn't play nice with the rest of the world as their money mostly comes from oil and gas; which we are moving away from. Let them pay for their crimes.
The rebellion has started. Let's hope they win. Wagner group aren't great people, but Putin is worse for giving the orders and calling the shots against so many innocent lives.
As bad as Putin is, I'm not sure Wagner would be better. They're even worse thugs than Putin :(
Yeah, I wanted Putin to go, but this might be a "be careful what you wish for" thing.
They should just be a nice mixed economy low corruption actual democracy (a super scandi) and the russian people free and happy goddamit.
lol he switched sides? ah, classic.
Russia/Putin is boned, Wagner is all they really had left for non-shite fighting capacity
What he's been saying is that the Russian Ministry of Defense has been lying to Putin. So I'd say this is Wagner and Putin working together to manufacture a face-saving pretext to leave Ukraine.
Edit: I see this morning that Putin is denouncing Prigozhin so, maybe not!
Same, though I epxect this to be more of a purge of - probably - the actual resistance within the army. Just like what Russia and others have been doing for centuries. Prigozhin already said in his speech he will return to the front once his cleanup is done. Who would do that unless they knew full well there were no consequences to be feared? And why would there be no consequences for something like this?
Very intriguing concept! If true it would be the first savvy thing Putin has done in a long while. Even though it would help Putin, it would help the Ukrainians much more, so I hope it's true!
Supposedly they've already agreed to retreat to Belarus? Shortest coup ever, or a dog n pony show.
Popcorn material.
If true, this is a major setback for Putin.
I don't think this little rebellion has a chance to overthrow Putin. Maybe if all of Wagner rebelled?
little rebellion
They already control a city with one million inhabitants, with one of the five military headquarters of the Russian military. I wouldn't call this a "small rebellion" yet.
Holy shit
Somewhat unexpected (at least for me). I don't expect much from this, but it may be the start of more general dissatisfaction in Russia.
Link dead/broken
what is Wagner group?
The Wagner Group, is a Russian paramilitary organization. It is seen as a private military company (PMC), a network of mercenaries, or a de facto private army of Russian President Vladimir Putin's former close ally Yevgeny Prigozhin.
The group operates beyond the law in Russia, where private military companies are officially forbidden. Because it operates in support of Russian interests, it receives equipment from the Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD) and uses MoD installations for training, the Wagner Group is said to be a de facto unit of the MoD or Russia's military intelligence agency, the GRU.
While the Wagner Group itself is not ideologically driven, various elements of Wagner have been linked to neo-Nazism and far-right extremism.
0-100 real quick. He was not joking on the whole revenge thing.
I wonder if Flight of the Valkyries plays wherever the Wagner Group goes. (For at least two reasons.)