Microsoft has a big Windows 10 problem, and only one year to solve it
Microsoft has a serious problem on its hands, thanks to competition from ... itself?
I mean, they could solve it by not making the mandatory successor an ad-laden, AI-infested, personal data harvesting, privacy-nightmare shit show. That would be a start. And also relax whatever the artificial requirement is that makes a lot of Win10 machines incompatible with 11.
You can bypass the requirements since yeah, they were always artificial. I believe Rufus has an option when creating Win11 install USBs to remove the TPM and other requirements.
But then again, it's nice, because all I need to make sure Microsoft doesn't secretly update my Win10 machine in the night to Win11 is to turn off the TPM in the BIOS.
Rufus has that option, I've used it myself to update to Win11 because I didn't have a motherboard with TPM at the time.
Also wanna mention, the reason I updated was mostly because I thought Win10 was kinda ugly and I think Win11 was a huge update in that regard and also because of security reasons, since Win10 won't receive any more updates in the near future. At the end of the day, I can count on one hand how often I boot Windows in a year (I almost exclusively use Linux), so I don't really care about all the Win11 bullshit anyway.
Windows 10 is already an ad-laden, AI-infested, personal data harvesting, privacy-nightmare shit show. The problem with 11 is the ridiculous hardware requirements.
Windows 10 is trash and has always been. Windows 7 was the last good Windows, and I would still use it if it had security updates and DX12 support (I obviously mainly use Linux, but my gaming PC is on Windows, and no, some games I play and software I use 100% do not work on Linux).
Probably is. I use Linux for everything and only use Win10 at work on a VM with enterprise/LTSB version, so I've been shielded from most of its enshittification.
Amen. I am 100% convinced that the only reason Windows 10 was received this well was because of their tremendous marketing efforts around the release. People just accepted that it’s a great OS. It’s exactly like that Windows Vista Mojave experiment, just in reverse. In my opinion Windows 10 is even worse than Windows 11. But they didn’t do as much marketing around Windows 11.
Nope, they wont. Micro$oft only cares money rather than basic OS for everyday and professional tasks
They've been adding spyware and ads into W10 so it's not the money. They could easily add all W11 ads/spyware into 10 with an update. Older CPUs have several hardware vulnerabilities unrelated to the TPU required by W11.
IMO, they should add a startup message listing the hardware vulnerabilities of the installed CPU and leave it up to the customer.
Having used both, doesn't 11 have the same level of ads as 10 did? It seems like it's really only OneDrive ads if you don't use it if anything?
Windows 11 = O.S. Ima Ad-Laden. Coincidence? I think not..
I know it's not a hardware compatibility problem. People just don't want ads/tracking/AI bullshit, a removed control panel, settings that are hard to find/hidden, etc.
All intel processor 8th gen+ (and even some 7th gen IIRC) are win11 compatible, motherboard have TPM2 for years, even my intel 6th gen MB have TPM2.0.
Next year the intel 8th gen will have 8 years, people have PC/laptop more recent than that. Problem is that win10 will not get security updates and all.
I'm using MX Linux BTW.
It's not a hardware compatibility problem for you or people who have reasonably new computers. However, for the last decade or so, computers have kind of stagnated and old computers are still very functional, something I couldn't have said a decade or two ago.
I'm typing this on a ThinkPad x201 which was released in 2010. TBF, I've updated it as much as I can (8GB of RAM and an SSD), it's running Linux Mint because Windows drags, and even then it's getting tired.
My Spouse's laptop is an Acer with a 5th gen i3. A couple years ago, she was complaining it was getting a bit slow, so I threw an SSD in it and now she's happy with how it runs Windows 10, and I'm sure it would run Windows 11 fine if a TPM2.0 chip wasn't required.
It's forced obsolesces for a hardware requirement most home users are never going to use.
6th gen intel and 1st gen ryzen run perfectly fucking fine still.
My parents are using a 3rd gen i7 and it works fine. My brother has a few computers, one is a 2nd gen intel, but I think he put Linux on that one. My home server was running on my 4th gen i7 until I upgraded it to my second gen Ryzen earlier this year after I upgraded my gaming.
CPUs from around 2005 onward are all perfectly usable IMO for the purposes of x86 desktops. As long as it's got x86_64, SSE4 and at least two available threads. I would even wager that Pentium 4 hyperthreaded models (Wolfdale?) are still acceptable if we're really pushing it.
I'm currently using a trick on my Windows 11 work machine to get the old UI for file explorer by going through the control panel and going up a directory.
I'll be so pissed the day they strip it out, because their new design language is ridiculously slow and terrible for the sake of "cleanliness."
I still got a Ryzen 1600, that would be just fine for when my flatmate needs a PC for working remotely, but his company reqires Windows 11 :-(
I’m still gaming on my 1600X, although it is starting to show its age
Most people don't care or even know that it is AI/ad-infested. I've seen people just fighting through pop-up on multiple websites they use. When ci fronted by me, they just said that they have "tunnel vision" and don't care.
My 80+ year old parents don’t care about ads or AI. They just want a working PC, and W11 won’t install on the cheap machine they got a few years ago. They’re not going to buy a new one because this works perfectly fine.
And yes they tried Linux for several years, but went back to Windows because it was just too much hassle and not compatible with too many things.
It absolutely is a hardware problem.
I'm just waiting for the EOL of window 10 to see which of the following will happen:
6 is becoming increasingly more common. Anecdotally, almost all of the gamers I know use consoles and have a phone for all of their "computer needs." One of my friends probably wouldn't even use his if it weren't for VR Chat.
I'm a computer gamer but my kids like Xbox....they're switching to Linux steam big picture mode.
My bet is that they are gonna surrender and will remove restriccions to W11. I doubt that a non-it person gonna install Linux, at least that, some companies decided to resell old~ computers with linux preinstalled that's the only way
Or Win10 IoT LTSC till 2032
I don't see the os switch happening unless microsoft stops existing in its entirety.
Abandoning home PCs could be a thing I guess, but i feel like that would happen either way for these people
I doubt the os switch is happening too, some will probably switch but that will be a small amount, either they get Linux or afaik all other "popular" options require new hardware anyways (Macos)
I think many will just stay on windows 10 if their hardware doesn't support 11 but ehh
Difficult to say, that's why I'm waiting on the EOL for headlines like "millions of pcs vulnerable due to missing updates" or "maybe we were a little hard on crowdstrike"
I'll save you the wait. It's 1 with quite a bit of 6.
Normal people just don't need PCs that much any more. Nearly everything that people did on a PC you can do on a phone.
If you can't do it on a phone, then it's usually called work, and employers can replace things as needed. Although we've still got customers using variants of Windows XP, so don't hold your breath. Some employers just aren't beholden to higher ups that demand security audits.
All those numbers will happen at the same time, at different proportions.
If there was ever a time for valve to push advertising out for the steam deck and steamOS it's now. The final piece of the gaming puzzle is anticheat. If valve gets the proprietary anticheat makers on board then it's all over. Every major hurdle would've been overcome, but games like valorant and call of duty still don't work because of vanguard and ricochet.
With how terrible windows handhelds are, imagine how awesome it would be for those cod players to be able to play a round of warzone on the toilet? I joke, but seriously, that's the demographic that needs to adopt a platform like the steam deck. That's the barrier valve has to overcome, and I'm worried they just don't care or something even more legally gray is happening, like Microsoft giving game devs incentive to use proprietary anticheat or to just not flip that EAC flag in their code.
Many years ago, I attended a Windows XP launch event. The Microsoft presenter had the perfect line to describe how MS views this:
"Why should you upgrade to Windows XP? Because we're going to stop supporting Windows 98!"
This was said completely unironically and with the expectation that people would just do what MS wanted them to do. That attitude hasn't changed in the years since. Win 10 is going to be left behind. You will either upgrade or be vulnerable. Also, MS doesn't care about the home users, they care about the businesses and the money to be had. And businesses will upgrade. They will invariably wait to the last minute and then scramble to get it done. But, whether because they actually give a shit about security or they have to comply with security frameworks (SOX, HIPAA, etc.), they will upgrade. Sure, they will insist on GPOs to disable 90% of the Ads and tracking shit, but they will upgrade.
Because we're going to stop supporting Windows 98!
At least there was a technical reason there, that Microsoft was merging the two separate codebases for consumer Windows and enterprise Windows, and building on the better NT codebase than the 95->98->ME codebase.
And XP was actually way better for the main thing that we were going to be using computers for going forward: networked with the actual internet.
Windows 11? Can't see any paradigm shift in how the operating system itself is supposed to work, at least not on anything that actually makes a difference in a favorable way.
Ya, in fairness to MS, Windows XP was a good release (post SP1, like most "good" MS releases). But, the fact is that MS is going to push the latest version, regardless of how ready it is for use. MS was hot for folks to switch to Windows ME. And holy fuck was that a terrible OS. MS also did everything short of bribery to get folks to switch to Vista (anyone remember Windows Mojave?). The "upgrade, or else" mantra has always been their way. Not that I blame them too much, it does need to happen. It just sucks when the reason for the new OS is more intrusive ads and user tracking.
Businesses (at least the larger ones) replace their hardware every few years anyway. They don't care whether their new Optiplexes run Windows 10 or 11 and most hardware bought since 2022 probably has Windows 11 installed already, probably all since 2020 supports it. So there's hardly a problem here. (Btw I'm taking the management view here, I know that it's a pain to actually deploy, but that doesn't matter to management).
Yes your right. Users only care if their software can run. Most could care less what OS is running under the hood.
I think you're wrong. Microsoft won't end support on a system over or around half the world's pc's run on.
They're just pulling a scare tactic right now. Before the security end date of win 10 is up, they'll announce continued support for another 2 years. They're just trying to push 11 and right now they're bluffing.
Three years ago, I bought my wife a laptop with Windows 10 to replace her 10yo windows 7 machine.
It had hardware issues out of the box, and went in on two repairs. It works fine now, AFAIK.
But, she still doesn't trust it, and she doesn't think that she can move her Adobe CS6 license over to it..
I even bought her the affinity suite.
I'm starting to think she'll never move on from Windows 7.
I think the major browsers stopped supporting it sometime during the last year, so my best hope is that some included certificates will eventually make her favourite websites stop working. That has to force her over to something more recent.. right?
I use arch, btw.
up vote for arch.
I also use arch btw.
Me too
https://github.com/win32ss/supermium
Here is a relatively up to date Chromium fork that supports Windows XP and newer (I am not affiliated with the project btw)
I'll keep that secret from her 😅
The author asks many questions, but never the most important one: "Why don't people like Windows 11?"
Why would he? Anybody intersted already knows, rest doesn't give a flying duck.
Yeah it's convincing people that Windows 11 is actually good
They should be required to release drivers such that massive e-waste wasn't generated suddenly. I mean, why does the government allow a software company to own an monopolize the hardware? Hello Google! Good luck 🤞 with the monopoly assholes!
I think that any operating system that mostly runs 3rd party software should be legally required to open-source at least the components necessary to run said 3rd party software. Also, OSes should just straight up not be allowed to show ads, full-stop. Making people buy hardware and then bloating the OS with ads in updates is a bait and switch and if our government had any balls, would be illegal.
I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but which drivers do you have in mind? You can install Linux on almost any machine, and if there are driver issues the culprits are usually nvidia, realtek, etc. for which Microsoft is hardly responsible.
Oh my gosh 🤯 you are definitely not old enough. Microsoft has hardware by the balls because they own the eyeball markets at work. They can make a company that makes Ethernet cards for example change their API. It's pretty simple to just end Linux by denying it hardware. So that's why we must defend against that sort of monopoly which kept modems unobtainable to Linux for example. That was the great awakening, the modem wars.
obligatory 🐧 that must be in every thread
If Linux didn't exist, we would actually end up with a lot of e-waste, and I mean a fuck ton of it. And it's all thanks to you, Microsoft.
Hell, Linux does exist, and people just don't wanna use it because they're so used to Windows that anything else is basically as steep of a learning curve as a literal cliff. And to those people I say: "just add some mint on it and life will be easy. Maybe even drizzle some cinnamon on it as well"
Linux is in a weird spot, there is a valley you must not be in with it.
If you are a non-technical person who needs only a browser and solitaire, it's perfect.
If you are a highly technical person, it's great.
If you're just in between, you are fucked.
I've installed Linux mint cinnamon on some PCs for other people. It's okay. I still run into errors and difficulties but for your average non techie person it might work if someone else gets them started.
That alone is a great introduction to Linux.
Started using linux mint 22 since 2 months great experience. Difficult with some software with wine winetricks and bottles and stuff. I'm not in any tech field. Learnt from YouTube. Still more to learn... But it's fun to figuring things out and chatgpt
I'm a recent Mint user as well. The transition felt pretty seamless so far.
hahahahahah does anyone really think microsoft cares? their money is in business with all the big players already deploying 11 at least in modest amounts.
nothing stopped them when windows7 was still functional and they were pushing the tpm requirement, i dont see a difference here.
Their money is now in azure. Os and app suites are a declining business, but they help with azure lock in.
Another vote for Linux Mint. I finally switched from Windows 10 months ago and I love it.
I'm really enjoying the learning curve with Linux because I'm not always fighting the operating system. On the other hand, every time I've had to go "under the hood" with Windows (edit the Registry, change config files) it's been to stop Microsoft from doing something sh*tty to me.
Rofl relatable. Me when i was trying to force uninstall edge or turn off windows activation logo
I've just installed it on my Dell Latitude E6330. It's great, but am I the only one who gets his laptop restarted instead of powered off? It happened both on Mint and Zorin OS, never on Windows.
I tossed Mint on a VM briefly and really disliked it. Specifically finding the terminal was painful. Did they bury it pretty deep or did I just overlook it?
By default there is a shortcut to the terminal shortcut on task bar. From memory it is one of three default shortcuts. (File browser, Terminal, Firefox.) You can also find it by pressing the menu button (the 'start menu'). From there the terminal has a prominent special position where it is always accessible. And if you don't notice it there, you can always start typing to search for it - as with any other installed app. I find that if I type 't', then "Terminal" is the top result; and obviously I can kept typing to eliminate the other results if I want.
So if your difficulty in finding the terminal is your main complaint about about Mint... I'm not sure what to tell you. Do you want it to auto-launch or something?
I stopped following 11 news after they cancelled the native android framework, only thing that got me excited since a BlueStacks installation gets huge extremely fast, I'm not going.
I use Win10 for one single program only and I'm currently testing on how to take that machine offline, but still be accessible locally. So far all I got is a blacklist regex in pihole. Blocking internet access to that machine via my router does not work for me, as I dual boot that machine with Linux for gaming. Tips per DM are very welcome actually.
Two options:
Make Linux use a random MAC address, then block the physical MAC in the DHCP section of the router'e configuration. This will make Windows unablento recieve an IP address while Linux will be able to get ahold of one.
If windows uses tandom mac addresses, the feature should be able to be turned off.
Or, simply disable the network interfaces in Windows' control panel. I've never seen Windows reenable a network card by itself.
Static IP on the windows machine in a jail'd subnet, if you still want to be able to access it from the LAN but don't want it to have internet access.
If you're happy with it not having any kind of network access (I'm not sure if when you say 'locally' you mean just physically, or it needs LAN as well), just disable the network adapter in windows.
Maybe have a script change your local IP address? You could for instance change your IP after logging into Linux and change before powering off.
That problem is that there isn't a better version (not that it was peak in the first place anyway..)
Imagine a world where we had politicians who understood technology enough to put proper rules and requirements in place, so that big dumb companies would actually be forced to act ethically and sustainably...
While the understanding would be nice to have, I suspect it is more a lack of backbone than anything else.
Plus said corporations pay I mean lobby for them...
The only reason I'm on 10 with my main pc is because the 7th gen intel in there isn't compatible with win11. I have another pc that is 7th gen, which I put windows 11 on and there is just something weird about it. When I do anything on that machine it doesn't do it immediately, it sits for a few seconds before actions are done. Really aggravating. Clicking on a program on the taskbar takes a few seconds before it opens. File explorer, firefox browser, settings pane, ... Once programs are running it's fine to use said programs, but I wonder what they did to make it feel this way.
I have Linux on both machines as primary OS and they are super snappy, it's not the hardware.
How much RAM do the systems have? 8gb? The delay may be in the system making room in ram for the program. Win11 is so ram hungry. It's stupid.
They both have 16GB RAM.
The one with Windows 10 has a i5 7600k and GTX1060
The one with Windows 11 has a i7 7700k and GTX1080
Both with nvme ssd storage samsung evo (cant remember which exactly). The 7600k machine even has hdds and ssds via sata extra.
I had Windows 10 on an older (but not ancient) machine and it was literally unusable. 10-15 minute boot time and another 5 or so just to get a browser to open. The misery didn't end once things were open; everything was still slower than when I had windows 7 on what would now be considered a truly ancient machine. I put Linux on it and experienced a roughly 5x speedup.
Hits buzzer
The big windows 10 problem is that it updates to windows 11.
The big Windows 10 problem is that it is Windows.
Probably a lower adoption rate than Vista
Lots of people moving to Linux over Win11 anyway.
A lot do myself included. But not enough to matter. Most ordinary Windows users don't even know what Linux is or understand why they should care.
Exactly - not enough to matter so not a lot.
Enthusiasts willing to get out of their comfort zone in whatever topic we choose are rare like kryptonite. The fact that you know 10 people, or a 1000 is by no means a lot considering the number of PC users.
Yeah, right. 🙄
I'd guess that major UI revisions are a big reason for average users. People don't like having to relearn how to do something or find a setting. If M$ implemented a legacy UI setting that by and large mimicked the interface and controls in W10 they'd clear a major hurdle preventing less technologically inclined users from upgrading.
My guess is that the average user doesn't care at all and just clicks away update notifications because they are annoyed by them
My question is this: Do Microsoft ship crap-infested versions to people who could make their lives uncomfortable, like, say, intelligence agencies, or do those agencies take a crap-infested version and have their IT security strip all the crap out?
Because if I was in charge of an intelligence agency I'd be asking - with dangerous smile - for the crap-free version, turn IT loose on it anyway and then be, shall we say, horribly invasive to Microsoft if there's anything still left in it.
... and if I wanted Windows, I'd want whatever the end result of that is.
On the other hand, maybe this has already happened and that "horrible invasion" is the cause of all the spyware crap in the consumer release.
Sigh.
Both. The enterprise edition has less crap, but most big companies will use custom images and group policy to decrapify it further. I do the same thing at home since I used to be the guy doing it at work. I don't get any of the copilot or recall bullshit.
No.
For Enterprise users they offer LTSC versions (bare minimum version of the OS) with extended support, and national agencies are able to get the source code of Windows under the program Shared Source Initiative.
Network traffic can be monitored, so a private intelligence agency also could watch any unwanted calls made solely by the OS and block them accordingly.
does it take a year to build an OS that doesnt track/sell you and try to hide its doing so?
Bring Windows 12. Windows 11 is terrible.
Windows 12 will be even worse
Yup...Windows 12? The evil monkey's paw demon is like, "I'll give you that wish for free."
I they call it Windouze I'll consider it.
Guys, is it the beginning downfall of Windows after October 24, 2025? 🤔
I wish.
There might be a small uptick of new Linux installs, but MS will just power on and the vast majority of Windows users will remain in that abusive relationship. :sigh:
Lol no.
I have a feeling that Microsoft will release an update that will at the very least make Windows 10 miserable to use if not downright unbootable the day support ends
“On Windows 10 PCs without an ESU subscription, however, any security flaws found from that day forward will remain unpatched, making those PCs increasingly vulnerable to online attacks.”
“Windows unpatched […] increasingly vulnerable to online attacks” is a facetious statement since the operating system is inherently malware.
It's only malware if wealthy companies aren't making money off of it.