Jill Stein: The Grifter Who May Hand Trump the White House Again
Not only is she helping Trump win—she’s destroying a once-noble party that could be doing good in this country.
Any third party that's telling you to vote for them under FPTP, but isn't heavily promoting RCV to fix the system, isn't trying to win. They're trying to spoil the FPTP election.
RCV is already law in a surprisingly large number of places. It may change the majority in the house in this upcoming election, because the difference in vote-counting within the two states that use it for US congressional elections might be enough to change the razor-thin outcome.
RCV is on the ballot, in one form or another, in 7 states and DC this year. Go vote. You might be able to fix the system, and move toward the future that all the people in this thread who are being vocal about Jill Stein say that they want. Remember back when marijuana was illegal? That changed. This can change too, and it would be glorious, for a lot of important goals that a lot of people claiming to support Jill Stein claim they're supportive of. It would be practical and realistic. It would work.
Anyone in this thread who is saying Jill Stein is extremely important, but haven't been saying anything about ranked choice voting or changing the voting system to make third parties realistic: Why? What's your goal, why did you make that decision about your priorities?
The answer is obvious, of course. But it's fun to ask.
@anticolonialist@lemmy.world, why?
I'll add more @s as more people pipe up. They always do.
Register and vote, for RCV as well as for Harris. We have 25 more days.
The most important youtube video in politics:
This video was clearly created by leopard supporters who just wanna be mad at tiger for leopard's failure to beat gorilla. Leopards are basically just light gorillas. Vote tiger.
I love CGP Grey, but he doesn't really understand politics. Proportional representation is a terrible system and leads to party control and extremists gaining too much power. Something a spreadsheet won't tell you.
RCV is just slightly better than FTP. Let’s go with the bests and support STAR now. If we do all RCV now, we can rage the system in the next 40 years due to people saying “but we just changed it!”
Star is flawed too, it incentivises people who are voting for the underdog to not rank any other candidate or your own ballot could spoil your preferred candidate. If all thrid party voters voted to mathmatically optimize their candidates chance, Star voting wouldn't change anything for them. RCV is better if you're trying to actually engage thrid parties.
Star doesn't fix the 'spoiler effect' unless you decide not to give your preferred candidate the largest mathematical advantage your ballot can provide, and if you do want to ballot optimize, you should only rank one person, and then were right back to where we started.
RCV in single member electorates is pretty meh, and yeah RCV in general has its issues. But saying it's "slightly better" than FPTP is a MASSIVE understatement.
Change begets change, don't be against changing to something much better, just because it isn't perfect.
we could do what maine is doing, i think it's either RCV or IRV. Whatever the difference is, if there is one.
Yeah we need a party that supports RCV, not this fake 3rd party bullshit. Lemme see, which party supports RCV?
Oh the Green Party. That’s… kind of awkward for your point, isn’t it?
The green party likes it for presidential elections where RCV doesn't really come into play at all because there aren't three viable parties. They are just making up grievance politics because rcv would never affect them since they never run for anything but president. Democrats are educated enough to know the green party is a scam and Republicans are too ignorant to vote for anything named green.
Harris wouldn't get my vote anymore than Trump would get yours. Fascism or fascism light is still fascism.
Paraphrase from Historian Kevin Kruse:
"No, l'm not voting [for the better one of the two major parties in a first past the post system] this election. But rest assured that when the Trump administration starts arresting my nonwhite neighbors and forcing them onto the trains, I'm going to have a pretty big frown on my face. That way, everyone will know it's not my fault."
I didn't ask whether David Doonan had published a press release on a janky web site which was mostly complaining about Democrats trying to remove Green Party members from the ballot, in this FPTP election. This also somehow finds a way to blame the lack of RCV on the Democrats, when a lot of them support it. Here's a list:
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting/endorsers/
I don't see any Green Party people there. I have never heard Jill Stein talk about it, and I've heard her say a bunch of things. That's strange to me. But regardless of that, that's not what I asked. I also didn't ask whether you plan to vote for Kamala Harris. My question was:
Anyone in this thread who is saying Jill Stein is extremely important, but haven’t been saying anything about ranked choice voting or changing the voting system to make third parties realistic: Why? What’s your goal, why did you make that decision about your priorities?
Do you want to answer that question? You don't have to. You can change the subject again, if you'd like to.
God, you again.
Michigan 2016
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Can't believe Johnson handed the election to Trump like that.
Hillary was a terrible candidate. She lost because of that.
"Once noble party" - ffs.
Jill Stein is a bad actor in this election, she understands how the electoral college works and she understands she's weakening the democratic party position. But let's not blame shift - the Democrats could be much better on climate change then they are today and if they were better Stein's BS wouldn't have such an easy time attracting voters. I dislike the title posing it as "Stein may hand Trump the whitehouse again."
Even if the argument about getting X% of votes was true, the states to campaign heavy in would be the deep blue/red states. Especially since they tend to get ignored by candidates.
Instead she sticks to the states where <30k votes could decide the election and the market is saturated with the most expensive ad costs
It's blantantly obvious what's she's doing.
the states to campaign heavy in would be the deep blue/red states.
Agreed. If a third party pulls off a major change in one of these states, it's still likely to go for it's color regardless so the presidential outcome is not affected, but it'd force the relevant parties to examine why the third party was able to make such huge inroads and what of their own policies that they should change.
It’s blantantly obvious what’s she’s doing.
But for posterity I'll state it; she's spoiling for a GOP win.
The GOP is the "drill baby drill" party though.
The Green Party is not going to win. The only message that voting for Jill Stein will send to the Democratic party is they need to move more to the center to get more reliable voters. It's already heppening. Harris doesn't like fracking but she's not going to ban it and she has to talk about increase US oil production to get votes from people she knows will turn up and won't flake out and vote green or be uncommitted or whatever.
If she wins she will be more inclined to fulfill promises made to the people who actually voted for her. Sure she'll need to represent everyone, but there'll be far more people that voted GOP she'll need to represent (and entice to maybe vote for her in the next election) than green party voters.
I think that Hillary Clinton showed us the opposite. If the Democratic candidate goes too close to the center, they risk losing the left, and they deserve to lose the left at that point. If the Democrats had tried to put a halfway decent strategy together about Israel, there would be zero worry about a third party. And I don't like single issue voters, but if I had to pick a single issue, genocide would be at the top of the list.
Voting isn't public so how the hell does everyone keep assuming we know who voted for her at the election?
The people that didn't vote for her didn't vote for her.
You can't claim she didn't get the trump republican voters so it's an indicator she needs to move to the left, right? Or Libertarian party?
Its weird false logic based on feelings about justifying a truly tiny group of people voting green as villians. the main base of Kamalas voters should also be Democrats who shouldn't pander and frack just cause she needed an extra 2% at the polls. We are gonna shift further right for that and more Republicans instead of going for any undecided first?
I don't get it. Make the logic make sense.
Without 3rd party options we still wouldn't vote for people that don't represent us.
The only person who would represent me is myself, and I wouldn't vote for myself because I don't want that shitty job
Jill Stein is polling at litterally less than measurable numbers.
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3913&stream=top
"Undecided" represents at least twice the voters Stein appears to be garnering.
What kills me about this is if the neolib dems had taken just a moment at the primary to cast their vote for undecided to show the Dem leadership that genocide was a non negotiable issue they should do the right thing on, it might have worked.
It would have cost absolutely nothing, and we might be coasting to an easy victory right now. Instead we're here.
What kills me about this is if the neolib dems had taken just a moment at the primary to cast their vote for undecided to show the Dem leadership that genocide was a non negotiable issue they should do the right thing on, it might have worked.
wait, what's stopping them? Not voting because it's not important to them? Sounds like democracy working as intended to me.
100%
But look around this place. Its still the same Blue MAGA here trying to bash peoples head in (now for Harris, then for Biden) as before.
The same people that would demand we drive off a cliff with Biden at the wheel are the ones insisting that we need to support Harris in-spite of her genocide policy, instead of trying to move her on the issue. Like we literally need her to fix her policy or she literally can't get elected. And its self-evident in the data we have. She's now losing, not even accounting for the structural biases we should very much expect from RW fuckery and the EC.
Like just come out against genocide. Its fucking easy. It can be a fucking lie. Just fucking lie to us so we can convince enough people to get you elected Harris.
People just want someone to be mad at in case Harris loses
Because Harris losing simply could not be her own fault, if it happened
Note: Jill is literally paid to run as a spoiler, and if you look at her actual policies, lot of transphobia, ablism, and support for pseudoscience
This shouldn’t surprise anyone considering her source.
Pennsylvania 2016
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guys it's not that hard, all we have to do is to not vote for still jein.
... there were people voting for stein?
i would hope not, but idk why else you would be running lmao
Apparently enough people are voting for her to inspire the Democrats to spend mone on ads against her.
Jill Stein has my vote! Seriously, she took it. Can someone help me get it back?
Wisconsin 2016.
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Thank you for posting
Very important that ppl pay attention
I don't understand why it is taken for granted that if Stein wasn't a candidate the people who vote for her would be voting for the Democrats instead. Just as likely they would not vote at all or vote for some other protest candidate.
Because people who are disillusioned that the green party would address their concerns are generally not complete shitheads like republicans; they're decent but misled people.
It was nice to see the World News community finally realize that the DNC has been doing nothing but shooting themselves in the foot for a year.
Maybe this community will finally catch on and connect the dots between a random ass 3rd party getting blamed for stealing votes away from the Democrats, and Democrats not actually meeting the core demands of their constituency.
Or maybe not....
Maybe someday we'll have people blame the DNC for choosing to back unpopular opinions/policies losing the popularity contest against "Literal Evil Fascist with the Playbook of How To Do Evil 101, but Fox News said it's cool".
But instead we need a new scapegoat for when Greens come in 4th place to the Libertarian's "I just wanna date this 14 year old with my rifle and say the N-word out loud without backlash."
Maybe someday we’ll have people blame the DNC for choosing to back unpopular opinions/policies losing the popularity contest against
the DNC is choosing unpopular policy? Brother this is a representative democracy. If harris wins, it's because it was the popular policy/stances. There is literally no alternative here unless you thing there is a deep state rigging the elections or that the majority of the american populous isn't real or something lmao.
Yes, the party that gets 1% of the vote represents the will of the people, not the one that turns out record numbers of voters and routinely takes the national majority.
jesus christ this thread is a fucking nightmare bro
i feel like i've done three pounds of ketamine just scrolling through these comments.
Its the genocide thats the problem-- Steins numbres are small.. And Jill Stein owes the dems nothing, she can run if she wants. Thats what democracy is about. So the new republic can suck it.
Everything you said is true. But it has nothing to do with the article. It's about how her campaign seems to be more a grift than pushing green policies, and aimed at taking votes from Harris in swing states than actually trying to win any election.
She can obviously do what she wants, but it doesn't appear she is being genuine.
Okay, the dems no longer support Israel, now they will get smeared as hateful Antisemites.
Thats fine. Theres only 2% of the electorate who are jewish, and a good portion of that 2% also dont support the zionist faction. We give some of them and the youth voters a voice to fight on our behalf. We need to keep the youth vote on side or the party is long term doomed anyway. Any leader who says they are swayed by the voice of youth has a long career ahead of them.
We also say that, "we arent steering the US away from support of Israel, we're steering it away from the far right government sponsored violence of Netenyahu." And we claim we're happy to be friends again when moderates or lefties are in charge in Israel. The zionists cant pretend to have clean hands, and Netenyahu needs to go.
I'm not sure who she's gonna actually end up hurting this time. I gotta imagine anyone who falls for the Jill Stein shtick is likely to fall for Trump's too.
Kamala Harris can win over all of those Jill Stein voters with a single sentence.
Stupid Jill Stein's entire campaign is based on the premise that Democrats would keep a genocide going for an entire year into election season.
Let’s completely forget everything but the election for this hypothetical. Do you think Harris coming out and saying “I will immediately stop supporting Israel” she will automatically win? Or do you think it’s more likely the Jewish community would condemn her words and move over to the rubber stamp in chief who would give Israel even more support with fewer conditions? (Ignoring the personal favors he asks for of course.)
Yall act like this is a simple black and white issue, when it’s obviously not. Even when you boil it down to “just” the election.
Oooh, so Kamala is playing 5D chess and will do an about-face on Biden's genocide policy when she enters office? Because her past record is so stellar on this issue? Like that time she had wine from an illegal settlement served at the White House? She and her boss wipe their ass with the rule of all and all pretensions of even basic human morality on an international level, but she's not Trump!
Republicans hate this one simple trick!
They really do, oddly enough, for multiple reasons.
Israel is the party at war with Hamas, not the Democrats.
Yeah remember when they were all clamoring for Biden to drop out? And he did? They just fucking moved the goalposts.
They do not give a fuck about Gaza. It's just a tool to hurt Democrats.
If you took half that energy and redirected it towards getting your candidate to stop funding genocide, you might convince actual humans to vote for your genocidal cop.
This gives big "RFK Jr. will steal votes from Kamala"
Just not helping
I'm ashamed I fell for her scam in 2016, was in CA though so wasn't worried my vote would directly help the orange waste of baryonic matter.
If Trump wins it's not Jill Stein's fault you psycho.
Technically you’re right. But it absolutely will be the non-voters fault, and considering that a vote for Shill Stein is the same thing as throwing away a vote for no good reason…
It’s say it’ll be her supports fault.
Or its an easy group to blam a cause they are visible and with same fancy logic and math you can pretend their votes belonged to the Democratic Party. You can't just assume they would have voted that way. They can even write in. Non voters are an issue but blaming another group is liking blaming Jews because they work at the bank you think took your house.
Its crazy conspiracy and emotional logic at best.
Democracy, where you have freedom of speech except if you speak about Israel, or your own country war crimes, or your own country foreign policy, or trying to run for office if you are not Democrat or Republicans.
It seems no one is keeping Shill Stein from exercising her freedom of speech.
I'm sorry but, Is that weird neck thing shes wearing...chain link fence patterned
It is a fishnet pattern keffiyeh (Palestinian headdress), as she seems to be wearing it around a lot to appear as the most pro-Palestinian candidate.
From NPR
Some say patterns on the keffiyeh symbolize different aspects of Palestinian life: the bold black stripes on the edges symbolize the historical trade routes that used to go through Palestine; the fishnet-like design represents the Palestinians' ties to the Mediterranean Sea; and the curvy lines resemble olive trees, a major point of pride for Palestinians.
Though none of these claims can be backed up by historical evidence, over the past 10 years they've become embraced by Palestinians in the diaspora to be the meaning behind their keffiyeh's patterns.
keffiyeh
just googled around a little and im not the only one that sees a chainlink fence...I suppose it fits the current state of gaza too.
If you want to vote third party but don’t like the greens, the party for socialism and liberation is running de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood!
The two state solution has been the platform of most of the world for decades, I think Democratic president Bill Clinton most recently undertook a major effort to make it happen, but the two parties of course couldn’t agree and started fighting instead.
PSL and Greens, due to their unpopularity and belief in ideology over consensus, will never actually be in a position to broker internationally impactful diplomatic efforts.
hate to "BURST" your bubble, but Trump is destroying america and destroying the Republican do nothing party! and Democrats are winning hands down!
Preemptively rolling out that “Democrats losing is the fault of everyone except the Democrats” narrative, again.
Must have seen the MN polling numbers…
OK so we are picking the new scape goat this election cycle?
She picked herself. Let’s not victimize Shill Stein here. Her lack of policy, and unwillingness to lift a finger three out of every four years really helped her solidify her role as the source of her own problems.
Thankfully, and with additional hope- she’s done and we won’t have to hear from her after November.
Wow its not the youth and progressives this time, I'm stoked. Yeah um, fuck those Stein voters they are the worst. Dont they know how democracy works?
/s
They don't. I've been trying to explain basic political concepts to my older cousin for 20 years and he's been voting for Jill Stein at every turn, and then pretended to be disappointed that a republican won as a nepobaby landlord that hates paying taxes.
People who will vote for a Russian sponsored Republican spoiler are too stupid to be trusted with anything. Or they are morally bankrupt and smart enough to hide it.
Jesus fucking Christ. You win by getting more people to vote for you! If Harris loses, it will be her own fault.
Yea because of Biden and uhhhh the country on the other side of the globe killing its neighbors.
That'll show her
🤡
Maybe they should stop sending unlimited bombs to the psychos air striking refugee tents?
Jill Stein isn't going to hand Trump anything. Only people who vote for Trump can do that.
Or people that vote for Stein instead of Harris.
Sure. But they won't anyways. It doesn't matter if you think Kamal a Harris is owed the votes if the person can't vote for Jill Stein but there is no reason to think they would vote that way at all.
You can't control other people or expect them to suddenly pick another option if they have one in mind.
I don't get where this idea that all those votes belong to the Democratic party. They could write in or not vote or vote red or other non party... Why is it that everyone focuses in on these votes? Is it a comfort blanket? Because it seems delusional if you step back from it.
Pretty sure that they don't count Stein votes for Trump. Only Trump votes can make Trump win.
How are we this late in the game and people STILL believe that nonsense? What the fuck are schools teaching people nowadays?
Not sure which nonsense you're referring to.
So folks, this is an example as to why the EPA banned lead based paint in domiciles and public buildings in the 80's.
History sure is neat, huh?!
How old do you think I am?
Hillary handed trump the WH last time
Okay, maybe it's not so black and white.... But she definitely contributed.
Everything she touches she screws up with hubris - Colin Powell
That’s a weird way to say “Harris ticket fails to motivate voters to their side”
To clarify, Stein is a literal compromised grifter.
So is most of the RNC. I remember that 4th of July emergency flight to Moscow to hand deliver a letter to Putin.
It’s not hard to beat these people. Unless you’re liberal I guess.
People doing completely conspiracy level of math with thinking you can just add those votes to Harris and she would win as a cope.