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Is martial arts really that useful?

I've been thinking about martial arts and how really it is useful these days since a lot of places will have criminals hiding firearms or in the U.S. some states have conceal carry.

Whilst it contains discipline and it is enjoyable to train in a club for, say Karate, I just think it might not be that useful in places where firearms are commonly held, all it really takes is for someone to take safety off, aim, pew pew and that's it.

I suppose I probably get this thinking from kung fu where it's seen more of an art form then actually being a serious bone breaking form of combat

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  • Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has been very useful to me. My cardio has improved dramatically, I am much stronger than I used to be, and I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of going from absolute trash to slightly less trash over 2 years.

    But I don't expect it to really help me in a fight. If I did get into a fight, I certainly would do better than if I hadn't trained; but one thing I've learned from fighting people for like 8hrs a week is that it is REALLY easy to fuck up and get hurt in ways you wouldn't expect. The outcome of a fight is unpredictable - especially when the other person could have a weapon. The best martial art for self defense would be running.

  • Yes, absolutely! Mostly for exercise and mental health though.

    For more practical styles, look at jiu jitsu, Muay Thai, MMA, and/or krav maga. Look for a teacher who has fought professionally or otherwise has practical experience. There are a lot of bullshitters out there who will happily take your money.

    Also, keep in mind you get out of it what you put into it effort wise.

  • Useful for what?

    You address a couple of things, so I'll try to cover them in the order your post does.

    Firearms and concealed carry don't really have anything to do with hand to hand. You aren't going to do much training in martial arts that specifically addresses firearms just because it's not necessary. If you're close enough to engage someone with a firearm, you'd use the same methodology to attempt to negate the firearm as you would any weapon of a similar size. If you aren't inside ten feet and a gun is already pointed at you, you're fucked. If you're inside about 20 feet, and the firearm isn't drawn, they're fucked if you can apply any control to it at all because they won't get drawn and fire in the time you can close distance as long as you're in decent shape.

    Doesn't matter if it's concealed or open carry tbh. If anything, a gun is easier to control than a knife, but that's a tangent that's not applicable here.

    For me, and I've been shooting since I was maybe elevenish, I'm still not going to draw, remove safety and shoot fast enough to ensure a stop on someone inside of about twenty feet if they're already primed to move. You might get the fast draw trick shooters that could, but they won't be doing it from concealed carry.

    Besides, you see a weapon of any kind, number one goal is escape, not fighting. The only reason you'd engage with a firearm user is if you can't escape. Same with a knife, a stick, whatever. Fighting isn't the goal, you don't want to be fucking around trying to "win". You do the bare minimum to gtfo.

    Seriously, it's not a factor in the practicality of martial arts.

    Where martial arts is useful for the average person that's maybe gong to use the training in self defense once or twice in their entire life is in being prepared for trouble. You train, and it's good exercise. You develop a sense of how your body works in motion related to another person. You learn how to react to pressure (with a caveat I'll cover in a bit). You learn how to take hits, how to judge distance and how to close distance. And that is true for any training that isn't just katas, even systems like aikido or judo that aren't meant to be self defense as a primary focus.

    Now, the caveat to that is sparring. If you never, ever do any training with a partner that's resisting your effort, it's just fun exercise. That's where aikido usually fails, the near total lack of actual resistance while training with a partner. But the basic techniques if you do resistant training and toss the stuff that doesn't work are literally bone breaking even with aikido, and it's as gentle as it gets.

    The problem with kung fu, karate, or any traditional martial art is the training not including live, resistant sparring. Even systems like mma that's had the ineffective stuff removed, if you don't train against someone that's working against you in a realistic way, it's just fun exercise. But there are "styles" of pretty much all of the name checked systems that feature live sparring.

    But, in real world scenarios, if you do that training, if you spend the time repeating a technique against a resistive partner, you won't have to try and use it. You'll just react. And that's how martial arts are useful in self defense scenarios. Instead of having to see an attack, decide what to do against it, then make the attempt, you detect the incoming attack, and you're responding without any conscious decision. You basically taught yourself a trick the same way Pavlov taught the dogs to drool to a bell. That's a gross oversimplification, but it's good enough for this.

    Now, it takes time to reach that automatical response. That time also takes money most of the time (unless you know someone willing to train you for free, and good luck with that). So whether or not you want to invest that time solely for the chance you might need it, that's another tangent.

    But, if you do choose to train, that's why it helps to get something other than just the fighting out of it. The fitness, the fun, the camaraderie, the self discipline, the self awareness, the pain tolerance, there's so much you can get out of it, if you're willing to put in the resources.

    Now, the post references specific "arts". But it doesn't have to be traditional arts at all, or even eastern traditional arts. You can get all the same benefits from boxing, wrestling, HEMA, or any of the arts that developed outside of asia. And we've got mma now that focuses on full contact fighting, and has whittled away at the stuff that's not effective for full contact sport fighting, which makes it pretty damn good for self defense overall.

    Again, guns just aren't a relevant factor in choosing to learn martial arts or not. Even melee weapons aren't. The primary advice you get, even when training to counter weapons, is to not let yourself get into that fight in the first place. You run first, you try to deescalate, you keep situational awareness to hopefully never even need to run, any of the things that could avoid being close enough to the weapon to have to control it at all.

    But, all of that is helped by training. Situational awareness itself takes time to develop.

    And, yes, I'm kinda enthusiastic about the subject lol. But, as much as I love/loved martial arts, it isn't for everyone. It isn't necessary for daily life for the average person. It's like an insurance policy where you pay in now, in the hope that if something happens later, you'll have it covered.

    As an example, me and my best friend are the same age. He has never been in a fight as an adult, never been mugged, attacked, or even threatened with something like that. Me? I can't actually remember how many fights I've been in, but I was a bouncer for a little over a decade, and worked some really bad areas as a nurse's assistant. If I hadn't been doing those jobs, and I discount any violence because of them, I would only have maybe a dozen fights have happened.

    Is that range of self defense occurrence worth the resources? It was for me, but it might not be for someone else.

  • Military, police, security and intelligence operatives train in it for a reason. You're right that it's not very practical or necessary for the average person. And for those who do need it, it's an option of absolute last resort and desperation. Running away, if possible, is the wiser choice. But, it can make the difference in a life or death situation. Someone who knows how to fight and has practice doing it has a big advantage over someone who doesn't.

    Exercise: And if you find martial arts fun and a really good workout, more power to you. I think for many people, however, there are less injury-prone ways to get a good workout.

    • incorrect. we train in combatives.

      Similar. but different. the differences are subtle and yet also very important. Like don't-fucking-die important.

      • Settle down, Dwight. Combatives are based on martial arts. You're being pedantic over semantics. I also already mentioned how important they are for some folks.

  • I'm not certain, given your use case. As someone with a deep passion for martial arts (judo > Jiu Jitsu > Aikido > Tai Chi), I would say while they can be useful in certain situations (even tai chi chuan, which is certainly the most inner one). Self defense classes with actual teaching about fighting a guy with a knife/gun would be more suited, maybe.

  • My two cents having practiced several.

    Almost all of them are useful in that they are a form of physical activity. They can keep you in good shape, and can also help you develop discipline.

    Many are more art than practical. Arts like krav maga or kali are more geared towards practical use (self defense).

    There is also a thing you can generally think of as "energy" that arts may have that often trend to make them not very practical against arts outside of themselves. For example, if a wing chun practitioner attempts to trap with you, and you're a boxer, it just doesn't work. It's somewhat about range, but also the general "feel" of the art as well. JKD attempts to deal with this by teaching different arts that can be used within different ranges.

    My one instructor also likened martial arts to technology, saying that they must evolve over time or just end up becoming ineffective for self defense.

    The best thing to do in a situation, if you can, is to just escape. Your wallet is not worth your life.

  • I think it has applications, none of them involving a street fight or confrontation. I dodged a fist coming my way from a partner once. Most of the time I use it to take blows properly and redirect aggressive people with whom I work. I want to add with all of my knowledge, almost everything I know would be useless against someone much larger than me.

  • no, if you want to hurt someone, a gun is better. If you don't want to hurt anyone, running away is better.

  • The board breaking is just a small grift to increase your confidence. When you start out the person holding the board does most of the work to break the board. It's several belts before the board start getting thick enough to put up a fight. All those boards are cut across the grain leaving short fibers that are able to snap.

    You are training to dodge and block, Even redirect your opponent and use their actions against them. That's not nothing. A lot of places will tack on a little disarmament and self-defense or run a class with that is the primary goal, But honestly you don't want to use martial arts to try to take on someone with a gun or a knife unless it is absolutely necessary because there's a high chance you're going to get got.

    Combat training is extremely useful, even play combat training, It puts you in a situation and has you react a certain way taking out some of the uncertainty and worry out of the situation. You start planning instead of reacting. But for the most part if somebody is threatening you with a gun or a knife you're better off not trying to take it off of them and beat them up.

  • It's incredibly useful for fitness and overall health. It's also very useful for self defense. You will get hit way harder in the dojo than you ever will on the street, and learning to take a punch is a big part of fighting. I trained in martial arts for several years when I was younger. One time at a punk concert someone twice my size took a swing at my face, and I slipped the punch and knocked him out before I even realized I was in a fight. The training works. It's also great for self-confidence. Lastly, guns aren't as prevalent as you think they are.

    Edit: if you want the training to be more about actual self defense and less about fitness and art, then be sure to pick a style that focuses on combat. Jeet Kun Do, MMA school, Brazilian Jujitsu, Kick Boxing, Western Boxing, and Western Wrestling are all very applicable in real fights. Shotokan Karate is okay in most fights, and better than ground focused styles like BJJ, wrestling, or MMA, against multiple opponents, but less effective against a single opponent. Although, you should really try running first if you have to fight multiple people at once, unless you're a badass through and through. I watched my 2nd degree Shotokan black belt friend knock 3 dudes out once in the span of about 2 seconds, but he has trained since he was like 6 years old and is a multiple time champion fighter. Most people can't do that.

  • This is a difficult question.

    If you're a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e..g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that's unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.

    As far as which martial art you should take, if you're going to take one... It depends on what you want. If you want a physical activity that doesn't have to be practical, then take up something like kyudo, kenjutsu, or aikido. If you want something that's practical, then look into juijitsu and things based more in grappling. If you seriously worry about getting into a confrontation with someone that's armed, then look up Shiv Works, and see what they have in your area.

    A concealed carry permit can be useful, yes, but it's very, very situational, and requires practice. Moreover, ever single bullet you fire outside of a range has to be accounted for.

    • I second Cabbage. RUNNING will more reliably save your life than any amount of combat training. But also, situational awareness. Most incidents can be easily avoided simply by paying attention to what's around you and not putting yourself in that sketchy situation to begin with.

      If you’re a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e…g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that’s unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.

      NO.*

      competition martial arts have rules. Rules that you abide by and train to follow. and inevetibably, training to fight inside these rules will invariably leave you open to certain kinds of attack, and to miss exploiting openings in the other guy. Yes. This includes MMA. You can tell that people in MMA follow these rules because nobody is biting the other dude's balls off. or twisting them off, or generally kicking to the groin. (groin strikes were originally allowed, but then banned in UFC, for example. Too many crushed testes)

      and for the record, if it's you or them.... yeah. get nibbly. You also don't see people snapping necks or stomping skulls after a toss. It's very rare for any kind of combat sport organization to allow things that will, you know, kill their competitors.

      If you want to train for self defense... train for self defense.

      Disclaimer: Muay Thai wasn't always a competition thing. the OG Muay Thai will absolutely fuck an asshole up. most martial arts were originally military training, and if you can get training on THAT, yeah, that'll be fine. in the US, you're never gonna see that, though.

      Again. just to reiterate. You're best off not getting in the situation, and that's best avoided by maintaining awareness of what's around you. You're second-best off running the fuck away. Constructive Cowardice is nothing to be ashamed of- it will save your life. but, if it comes to it, and it's you or them, don't fight fair. Fair is how you die.

      • A bouncer isn't usually going to be fighting to survive; they're throwing some dude the fuck out of a venue, or subduing them until cops show up.

        As far as my comment about Shiv Works - I stand by that 100%. Look them up. They train with bare hands, knives, and guns (firing non-lethal training munitions), and in awkward spaces (such as you might experience in a car jacking).

        Any discipline that forces you to act while under pressure is going to improve your odds if you end up in a situation where fighting is your only real option. If you get sucked-punched on a subway, experience in e.g. boxing is going to be far, far better than nothing at all, despite the fact that boxing has rules. IDPA/USPSA will not, contrary to claims, get you kilt in da streets, because practice moving and shooting is better than not.

        The idea that there's a real distinction between self-defense and martial arts in general is nonsense. If you're good in MMA, this is going to translate almost 1:1 to self defense. Here's the blunt truth: most of the people that are going to attack a person have a LOT of experience fighting. If you want to defend yourself, you're going to need to give yourself a lot of the same experiences, even if it's in a more controlled setting, and "self-defense" classes aren't going to do that.

        And, BTW, I know a guy that teaches wu shu (Eagle Claw, I think?) that also works as a bouncer. He is very, very effective, and uses the things he teaches as a bouncer. He's small--like, 5'5", 150#--and he punches well above his weight.

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