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Would you buy "self-hosted in a box" hardware?

I'm considering a business plan for people getting in to self-hosting. Essentially I sell you a Mikrotik router and a refurbished tiny x86 server. The idea is that the router plugs in to your home internet and the server into the router. Between the two they get the server able to handle incoming requests so that you can host services on the box and address them from the broader Internet.

The hypothesis is that $150 of equipment to avoid dozens of hours of software configuration is a worthwhile trade for some customers. I realize some people want to learn particular technologies and this is a bad fit for them. I think there are people out there that want the benefit of self-hosting, and may find it worth it to buy "self-hosting in a box".

What do you think? Would this be a useful product for some people?

107 comments
  • Isn't that basically just a commercial NAS? Go buy a Synology NAS, or get fancy w/ TrueNAS. You don't need an entry-level enterprise-grade router at all, you can just plug the NAS in anywhere and you're golden. You can usually install a few services like Plex/Jellyfin or HomeAssistant alongside the data storage if you like.

    If that's not going to work for you, you probably have a good idea of what will work for you. For me, a tiny x86 server isn't going to cut it, because I want a beefier CPU to run CI/CD for my programming projects, so a beefier, modern CPU is quite valuable. That's totally overkill if all you want is a simple streaming setup with 1-2 transcoded streams.

    So I think there are two main markets here:

    1. just give me something that works - these will flock to pre-configured solutions, like Synology or TrueNAS
    2. I want something specific - they'll DIY components together to build their own custom solution

    The only other group I can think of is the group that can't afford 1 and doesn't know enough to do 2, but I really don't think that's a particularly big group, and they'd be better off reusing something they already have instead of getting some off-the-shelf solution.

    I could absolutely be wrong here, that's just my $0.02.

    • Isn’t that basically just a commercial NAS?

      Is it? I haven't bought one, nor have I built a TrueNAS box. I've heard from folks that run applications on a NAS, particularly VMs and containers, but my understanding is that your price-per-unit-compute is really high since that's not what it's optimized for. I've got an old Zyxel NAS, it's quite low-end, and I can't run anything beyond NFS/Samba/audio streaming.

      you can just plug the NAS in anywhere and you’re golden.

      Do they have some kind of VPN or TURN system? I'm expecting that customers will want to access the device outside of their LAN.

      For me, a tiny x86 server isn’t going to cut it, because I want a beefier CPU to run CI/CD for my programming projects, so a beefier, modern CPU is quite valuable

      How beefy? Multiple CPU? If you could buy 4 boxes and have them load balance would that be interesting, or do you have a strong preference for single-box compute?

      I could absolutely be wrong here, that’s just my $0.02.

      Thanks, your $0.02 is exactly what I'm looking for!

      • price-per-unit-compute is really high

        Well yeah, they're optimized for storage. And if you're starting from nothing, you're going to need storage.

        Synology is your budget home cloud, and it's just good enough to handle basic cloud tasks and small-scale service hosting. If you grow out of it, you leave the Synology NAS for purely data storage, and add another box for heavier compute.

        TrueNAS, on the other hand, is usually overkill for a home NAS setup because it's designed for small-ish business use-cases, so it has a lot more CPU and RAM than you'd need when you only have a handful of users in a home setting. So it can probably handle any CPU workload you throw at it, within reason. It probably wouldn't make a great compiling cluster, but it would do really well hosting things like NextCloud. If you're looking for transcoding, you need to check the hardware and drivers on FreeBSD (maybe it's not an issue, but it's good to check first).

        Do they have some kind of VPN or TURN system?

        How would the router help with that? If you're behind CGNAT, you'll need something external regardless. If you're not behind CGNAT, pretty much any router on the planet can do port fowarding, and many can handle a network-wide VPN if that's what you're after.

        I'm behind CGNAT and I have a VPS that hosts my VPN and routes all traffic using HAProxy over the VPN to my internal devices, and my internal devices maintain a persistent connection to the VPN. It sounds complicated, but it's really just two config files that I'd be happy to share if anyone is stuck. I do have a Mikrotik router, but it's not needed for any of this, I only use it for static DNS routes so I don't hit the WAN when accessing my services by their domain names (and VLAN for ZeroTrust shenanigans, but again, not needed at all). If I didn't have that option, I could always just host a DNS server right on my NAS and do the same thing (any router can set the DNS server over DHCP).

        How beefy? Multiple CPU?

        No, I'm not that productive. I just want it to run builds of my Rust projects, and those can take some time. So 6-8 recent-ish cores is plenty. Right now I'm using a Ryzen 1700, and once I upgrade my PC, I'll move my Ryzen 5600 to it. I want my builds to finish somewhat quickly without interfering with other services on the machine (e.g. if I'm running a build while we're watching a movie, I don't want the movie to stutter).

        If my project grows (i.e. I get outside contributors), I'll need higher specs.

        And yeah, my preference for a single box is storage space. My NAS sits on my desk, and I'd really rather not get a rack setup. More machines means higher power and more space. I do have a couple of Raspberry Pis around for specific use-cases (e.g. one on my TV for RetroPie), but I'd really rather not have a handful of PCs running 24/7. Electricity is pretty cheap where I live, but even then, I'd rather not waste power just because I can get a good deal on servers. My single box uses something like 40-50W, and once I upgrade to my 5600, idle draw will drop another 10-20W (I have a 20-30W floor due to the drives).

    • For once I'm #1 in something 🥳

  • Hi, I'm your customer base.

    I'm a complete novice, no network or coding experience, but not afraid of computers either. I'm pretty worried about messing up something serious due to lack of knowledge.

    In the end, I didn't choose Synology or the like due to:

    • lack of robust community support. I've noodled around with Linux for years and learned that community support is essential.
    • price. I'd pay 10% or 50% more for a good pre-configured system, but not 3-4x more (which is just the general feeling I get from Synology)
    • lack of configurability. I'm still not sure what I would like to do (and be able). I know I want to replace some storage services, replace some streaming services, control my smart home, maaaaybe access my files remotely, and probably some other stuff. I may want to have email or a website in the future, but that's not on my radar right now.

    If there were some plug-and-play hardware/software solution that was still affordable and open, it would be a good choice for me.

    • I appreciate your thought process here! Where did you end up as far as self-hosting?

      • I'm currently about halfway through setting up a home server on an old/refurbished Dell PC. It has enough compute to transcode if needed, but no more. I'll have to upgrade the storage to set up RAID. For software, I am running xubuntu, which offers the benefits of the great community and documentation of Ubuntu. It is very beginner friendly, but is a bit simpler and lighter than gnome. I'm running everything I can as Docker containers.

  • 150$ is rather ambitious for what you are describing as a custom made low power server. Managing to build something... Anything commercial out of new, hell even refurbished parts that has enough horse power to run anything more than a pihole/DNS server at this price point would be a challenge and a half. If you're going refurbished/2nd hand, you're likely gonna spend half of that on just shipping the parts to you.

    I believe you are vastly underestimating the price of new low end parts and vastly overestimating the capabilities and availability of old micro servers. I'd say something like this would work at a price range of around 300~400$ (and even that's ambitious imo).

    And even then, that's a NICHE audience you'd be targeting. It would be people who don't wanna pay subscriptions, but also don't wanna be bothered to spend a day or 2 figuring out how to set up a simple linux box on an old computer they have. I'm not saying that audience doesn't exist, it's just veeeeery niche.

  • I'm not in the market, but I've actually had similar thoughts of building a project on top of NixOS that's focused on self-hosting for homes and small businesses. I recently deployed my own router/server on a BeeLink mini PC and instead of using something like OpenWRT, I used NixOS, systemd-networkd, nftables, etc.

    DM me if you want to discuss more. I think the idea has potential and I might be interested in helping if you can get the business model right (even if it just ends up being some FOSS thing).

  • From reading the comments, I think you could be a lot leaner by selling the $100 setup fee, and telling people which "kit" is supported, and they buy that on their own.

    That way you don't have to deal with any of the physical infrastructure of buying/selling/storing hardware, and people can do some customization.

    However I do think you'd need to put some restrictions in place so that people don't buy cheap crap that doesn't work and expect you to set it up and support it. They have to buy the kit or other compatible hardware.

    I'm not sure what services you'd support, but personally I'd be interested in something like a personal introduction and setup of

    • docker
    • proxmox
    • yunohost
    • backups / restore (practice restoring)
    • smb shared folder
    • pihole / pivpn (can you have wire guard and openvpn setup at the same time for different uses?

    Maybe migration of

    • nextcloud

    You could make different prices depending on what service they want, kind of like a bike stop.

    I wouldn't want a perpetual subscription, but I could stomach something like $100 setup + $5/mo for limited support for a year.

    Best thing for me is that community support also exists for all these things too, but it's hard to do it on your own sometimes.

  • I probably would. However it has become increasingly obvious that the flaws with solutions so far have been in the organisation. Not so much the particular hardware or software. If I'm going to buy something I'd like some hope that it'll be there in 5 or 10 or 20 years. So please if you go serious with this, look into worker-owned organizations because I'm tired of dodging profit-maximizing traps and pretend-non-profit landmines. If the people building and supporting the thing aren't the ones deciding what to do with the revenue and profit, you're the only one doing it and you're going to make mistakes that will hurt them and us. And then you become a landmine to dodge.

    • These are great points, and I fully agree. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of license or corporate structure or contract would give you confidence that the organization is worth investing in. I could put all the software out with a really strong Affero license so that you've got the source code, but I get the impression that you, like me, want more than that. Corporations like Mondragon are interesting to me, and I'm aware of a few different tech cooperative organizations. I'm not confident that a cooperative structure alone is enough. Yes, it helps avoid the company taking VC money, shooting for the moon, failing, and then selling everything that's not clearly legally radioactive. But it doesn't protect you against more insidious forces like the founders selling to private capital and adjusting the EULA every few months until they have the right to sell off your baby photos.

      I've been batting around the idea of creating a compliment to the "end-user license agreement" - the "originating company license agreement". Something like a poison pill that forces the company to pay out to customers in the event of a data breach, sale of customer data, or other events that a would-be acquirer may think is worth it for them.

      I'm just not sure yet what kinds of controls would be strong enough to convince people who have been burned by this sort of thing in the past. What do you think?

      • I don't know enough to say what the structure should be but this should not be possible:

        But it doesn't protect you against more insidious forces like the founders selling to private capital

        It implies that the founders have more voting power and ownership than the rest of the people in the org. In my mind, everyone should have an equal vote, which should prevent a sale on the whim of the founders or another minority group. If a sale is in the cards, a majority of the people in the org should have to approve for it to proceed. And this shouldn't be advisory but a legal barrier to pass.

        If I were to start a firm today, I'd be looking into this because not only this is the kind of firm I'd like to work in, but I think so would quite a few people in software. And those aren't the dumb kids.

        I can also say that as a customer, the few worker co-ops I've able to buy things from give me a much more trustworthy impression than the baseline. They just behave differently. Noticeably more ethically.

      • Purely on the product side, if I decide to buy it, I wouldn't buy it for myself. I'd buy it for friends and family who are not that tech literate. Either to make my life easier to give them self-hosted services, or ideally for themselves to be able to do so. I want this product to be a non-shitty, open source "Synology," from a firm I can trist to support it for a very long time. Doesn't have to have that form factor. And I'm totally fine with an ongoing subscription. I'd like to be able to say - hey friend, buy this from ACME Co-op and sign up for their support plan. Follow the wizard and you'll have Immich, Nextcloud, etc. A support plan might include external cloud HTTP proxy with authentication and SSL that makes access trivial. Similar to how Home Assistant's subscription (Nabu Casa) works. It could also include a cloud backup. Perhaps at a different subscription rate.

  • The tech savvy will just buy a Raspberry Pi and install yunohost on it.

  • I admire the thought of lowering the barrier to entry to start self-hosting for "normies". Not sure where you are located, but where I am, this price point is not realistic even for used equipment, not including RAM or storage. I'm not really sure what value add you are bringing to the table that one wouldn't get from just buying used hardware from an office surplus and if one is very inexperienced in self-hostong, looking into something like LTT is partnered with like Hexos.

    • this price point is not realistic even for used equipment, not including RAM or storage

      I'm doing experiments currently on a refurbished Intel i5-6500 with 8Gb DDR4 and a 0.5Tb SSD. It's tiny, quiet (~45 decibels) and so far runs ~8 watts idle, 25 watts normal usage. I haven't stress-tested the power draw. The router I'm testing with is a Mikrotik hEX lite 5. That's around ~$150, though clearly if you are accustomed to more "rack-mount" style homelab these will seem very modest.

      What I'm testing for now is getting representative loads on the devices to see how they perform.

      I’m not really sure what value add you are bringing to the table that one wouldn’t get from just buying used hardware from an office surplus and if one is very inexperienced in self-hostong, looking into something like LTT is partnered with like Hexos.

      Oh, I totally agree, my value add just isn't there if you are experienced at hosting. The value add is to help people get started, and to keep them running at a modest level. Not everyone wants to experiment with Kubernetes at home or train LLMs. Some folks just want a password manager, a shared calendar, something to organize their tax documents, a pihole, and a Minecraft server for their kids.

      I don't follow LTT, I was under the impression it was more hardware reviews for the experienced than tutorials to help people get started.

      I've read a bit about Hexos, I'm thinking of some similar things, and it would make sense to work with them. I'm excited for their coming beta.

      • I recently upgraded my homelab/self-hosting server from an old Dell T410 with dual X5650's (2 - 6 core/12 thread CPU) and 24 GB ram to an old Dell Optiplex (7020 I think) with an i5-4590 (4 core/4 thread) and 32 GB ram. Its barely enough for a proxmox host with 5 VMs; but way faster than the old T410.

        If you are offering some sort of self-hosting box, would it be bundled with some sort of software for someone to easily spin up whatever services they want?

        Are you going to be able to make money at the $150 mark with all this hardware and configuration? If you are targeting people who are new to self-hosting, it will need to be a complete package (will need to have ram and storage installed).

    • A small home media server running off a raspberry pi could be that cheap.

  • Would only be worth it if you created a system for easily deploying applications on an already set up subnet with routing preconfigured.

    Like set up a single server kubernetes distribution like microk8s or minikube on the server with metalLB and ingress already preconfigured on the server and router. You could also give instructions on how to install a GUI like Lens and how to use it to deploy a few things. Probably using workstation applications would be better than a web UI like Portainer to keep the server lighter, but either might work.

107 comments