FYI, lots of users are polling to defederate sh.itjust.works
r/The_Donald now on Lemmy - Lemmy Online
Might- be worth knowing about.....
https://lemmyonline.com/comment/47545
Edit- And... (From beehaw...) https://lemmyonline.com/post/8944
I just don't get it.
Block the c/TheDonald community. That's it. That's all you need to do.
When it gets no visits, no views, and only it's handful of users meme-ing each other, it'll die. One of the big reasons TheDonald took off on Reddit was because of all the attention it got.
So, don't give them attention. Don't feed the trolls.
I'm not saying to tolerate neo-nazis. But running from them isn't exactly a time proven strategy, either. They will exist, and it's up to all of us to remind them that their views are garbage.
You are preaching to the choir. I was just spreading the word of this crap here.
I just posted my comment in the Lemmy.ml thread, so we'll see how THAT goes...
And the same goes for anything else. You don't like r/politics being a bastion for US democrat biased ans bullshit propaganda? Block it. You don't want to see republicans talking about being republican (the horror), block it.
And don't pretend we all need to agree on everything and be as shittily outraged with the next US centric Google manipulated narrative.
Same. I've blocked like 50 communities so far. Yet I don't go around calling to defederate because "omg I just don't like US news, US has committed atrocities, anyone who posts a US news will get their server defederated!". Block and keep walking. Life's too short to spend it crying about the perfectly evitable.
I'm surprised the admin gives it so much thought. Just delete "the Donald" and be done with it. Who is going to complain that they don't want to give fascists a platform? That's how you handle them, by not giving them a second thought, all this discussion is already giving them way too much publicity.
Correct, which is why any waffling on that decision makes a lot of people suspicious of the admin's stance on the subject.
yea. instances admins should have open communication with each other about what is bothering one another and take action for the good of the majority. dont fall for the 'divide and conquer' plan
It does feel that many people here on lemmy are experiencing 1st hand of "feeding the troll". The Donald community created is probably done by less than a handful of people and it drove hundred times more amount of users to turn against each other.
This is why I frown upon the idea of defederation and I blame the users for opening that pandora's box. People, including mods, are too busy getting at each other throats and praising the value of their bubble communities rather than having any sort of planning.
Defederation is not the answer. Honestly, it's such a powerful and destructive tool that I question whether it should exist period.
Users should be treated like adults who are capable of determining by themselves what content they are comfortable with seeing.
If I don't want to see an extremist political community on my feed, I block that community myself. If an instance is full of such communities, I block that instance myself.
I don't want or need some other random on the internet to make judgement calls on what content I can or cannot interact with.
Defederation is a tactical nuke, that if used incorrectly will destroy the freedom, decentralization and openness of Lemmy, and replace it with a far more centralized series of walled gardens.
I fear that people are trying to recreate the reddit model on Lemmy. Lemmy is not reddit, Lemmy is better than reddit. Reddit is top down, Lemmy is bottom up. We don't need more mod control, we need more user control.
I would love to see more features built for user moderation of content. Perhaps I could subscribe to another users blocklist, or follow their 'recommended communities'. Instances themselves could maintain suggested block lists, and users could chose to enable or disable them at their own discretion.
I'm really not sure that defederation has any place at all. Even things like spam and bot instances I think would be better handled by a blocklist (enabled by default even), that users can turn on or off as they see fit.
I joined the fediverse for the fediverse experience. That is it's touted interconnections and interoperability with other services and platforms so that I could discover and dialogue with people of similar interests who weren't directly subscribed to the same service/instance/platform I was currently using.
I originally subscribed to beehaw.org which soon afterwards began defederating from other instances. I soon deleted my account with them as that was antithetical to the reason I signed up with them in the first place. I wanted exposure and access to all that the fediverse offered.
I have no problem with people and communities creating spaces for themselves while excluding those who don't hold similar interests, but in light of all the current squabbling, I just want to join a fediverse instance that isn't going to defederate.
Defederation should be just “read-only” and users should be blocked from posting or commenting. In its current state it just creates a fragmented broken network with silos that users don’t really know about because it silently fails.
Here is the answer.
Autoblock spam and illegal content Make a "not cool" communities list and allow users to check a button upon signing up to block instantly.
Problem solved.
and illegal content
I am massively against defederation when at all possible- However, I will draw the line at illegal content.
The reason being- when content is federated, a copy of it is stored on all subscribed instances.
I REALLY don't want the feds knocking on my door. So- I will take a strict stance there, for protecting my own well-being. My server isn't hosted in a country where anything goes.
If- it is content which is against the rules of the instance where it was posted- by all means, I will give the admins a chance to handle the issue. Otherwise- nuclear option.
There shouldn't be one "not cool" list on signup, that's just /r/popular then. Every user should be able to make their own list. And every other user should be able to subscribe to any other user's list if they don't want to manage it themselves. But it shouldn't bet set up and defaulted by the admins. If you aren't able to at least do the bare minimum to curate your experience then just go back to facebook or reddit with their recommendation engines.
Some people are so fragile that the MERE EXISTENCE of ideas they don't agree with are an existential threat, whereas I am proud to have friends and neighbors that we do NOT always agree. Ironically, having people around with different thoughts and ideas is actual diversity, which is the opposite of these 'curated safe spaces' that these overly ban-friendly instances seem to crave.
I'm out of here if the community stays up. I've already blocked it, but we cannot be tolerant with the intolerant.
They need to go, and other instances would be right to ban. That's the only way this model works.
Then you'll always be led around by the nose by people you don't like. Block, move on. Be an adult. Other people don't need to decide on what everyone else can see. If you don't want to see it, you won't.
Seeing people here pushing back for once against the trigger-happy defederating mindset actually gives me hope in the future of this instance.
Yes! This has been a disaster on Mastodon, hopefully Lemmy will not repeat these mistakes
Let's just all take a breath. This instance has its rules, and I expect them to be adhered to for content on this instance.
Let's give moderator time to get involved, and the community time to navigate precident setting actions. I think it is cool this instance is being set up to be self governing. But it's just getting set up. And people work and are otherwise not constantly available.
I'm not from this instance but I'd caution heavily against letting an instance with open signups in a fediverse with a bot problem be 'self-governing'.
We're not just running polls and blindly following the results. I think the the goal of having a community discussion place is to help identify the people who are actively trying to participate in the process and then take their views into account in deciding the future of things.
Ultimately, like all instances this is functionally a dictatorship because @TheDude runs the server and has the ultimate say in everything. He's created an area where people can voice their opinions and his intentions appear to be to parse the discussion and make an informed decision based on the results.
I doubt he'd be fooled by some position suddenly having 2500 bot comments saying 'Nay'.
I'm gratified that a lot of the conversations over there seem to point out that you shouldn't defederate entire instances because of a few bad actors. Realistically we can't all move to a new server every time a troll shows up, and the bigger the server the more likelihood of trolls.
I havent seen the donald or exploding heads content. if I was the admin of this instance id probably want to see blatant rule breaking examples to be able to remove them. is there blatant racism and whatnot over there or is it typical stuff meant to trigger liberals?
if there is blatant racism etc, have we reported it?
Honestly, the long-standing history of t_d's behavior, rule-breaking and brigading, on other platforms should play heavily into the decision on this one. This instance's admins should not wait until they cause issues here to prevent them from turning this place into a Nazi bar.
its just a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Are you okay with similarly vaguely worded arguments being used to have your favorite community banned?
Can we do a thought experiment?
You favorite community is up for ban. What evidence would result in your agreeing to ban it?
In my opinion whatever standard you would have for that question should apply to every community.
Honestly- I think its just somebody trolling.
The username sounds like a troll, and the news posts they were sending were... comically bad.
I agree with you. However there should be recourse if the wider community on an instance agrees that there is a bad actor or community that needs to be banned. I'm fairly certain if we did a poll that the community would be banned.
just so you know we are rapidly setting up a community within sh.itjust.works to do just that at theagora community. There have been discussions of defederation.
I think we are trying to get some mods in place and a voting / polling process before hitting the defederation nuke / blocking communities etc
The server admin removed the community, maybe update your post.
I didn't even know this "community" was even here, mostly because that's just one guy and a half talking to themselves.
1-2 angry contrarians is hardly a community but still,
I'm not a big fan of being associated with that.
Defederation as the one and only step is a bit nuts to me, as there are 6k+ other users here.
By that logic, anyone that ever had a reddit account also supported /r/thedonald back then, which is just not the case.
As for what to do with that troll, I couldn't care less if they get the boot, yet evading a ban on here isn't exactly hard.
IDK I think the community should get shut from the instance for violation of the no bigotry rule, given the litany of things Trump has said, a place allowing for only "Only high energy pro-trump posts." will inevitably break that rule.
Definitely, why wait? Free speech is free speech, but there is demonstrably nothing about this specific free speech that would make it valuable to the community. Keeping them around will just turn this instance into a nazi bar.
For clarity I'm fully behind yeeting this junk from here.
Nothing of value would be lost.
Didn't mean to downplay what they're trying to be nor how we should react.
I do think defederation is a bit much, or more accurately, it is worrisome that defederation would be the best tool for a remote instance to deal with that.
All the more reason for us to deal with it.
oooff didn't know there was TheDonald on this instance. Not very happy about that.
So as a user block the community and be done with it.
I'm not worried about seeing their content, that's something I can control. I'm worried that these trolls are going to get us defederated from the majority of lemmy. That is not something I can control, and it would suck to have to look for a new instance, make a new account, and redo all my subscriptions just because a bunch of red hats decided to make this server their home base for some reason. I don't want to be associated with them, so if they stay and we get defederated, I'm probably going to have to leave, even though I have so far liked this community.
I don't know but it seems that this particular community didn't exist until the dust-up regarding explodingheads and the discussions that have occurred afterward, including the Agora vote.
So, to me it seems that it was started in retaliation to that particular discussion/event.
The active user at the core continually changes their display name, making it more difficult to know that you're replying to the same person unless you're checking the account, as they only mod the one community.
That alone makes it bad faith or trolling, however you want to phrase it, and it seems both the user and the community are at odds with the overall environment that many users came to this instance for.
I think it actively hampers the conversation we were having with beehaw regarding refederation, and don't disagree with their observation in the matter.
Yes, we as users can block them. And?
Call it growing pains call it whatever you'd like but I think that ignoring the larger context behind why it's here and here now is missing the point of why "just block it as a user" isn't the ideal solution.
That's really interesting about the changing display name thing, and given when the community showed up, yeah that seems to be bad faith or trolling. Yeah I think I'm in favor of banning them for that.
I think I've seen at least six different user names depending on the thread, including Agora threads.
It's absolutely all done in bad faith.
The way it should work imo is that users report them, and if they're a moderator, that goes to the admin of the instance, who then makes a call whether to ban the user and/or community.
Don't defederate because someone made a stupid community, report and work through the moderation system.
Wow, good observation.
Allowing hate speech and telling people to decide for themselves what to follow is moderate argumentation that gives more power to fascists. Taking the middle road always gives power to those willing to take it.
This feels like a gross overreaction to the situation. Sure, I don't love the fact that TD has a tiny presence here, but I fail to see how that should be cause to defed a large instance. Especially when that community just popped up recently, only came to anyone's attention in the last day or so, and (to my knowledge) hasn't caused any real trouble other than the Agora mod vote thread getting a bit spicy.
I'm sure it's something we'll need to address internally, but it's just one item on that list. And for now, it seems like a low priority item.
I mean, I am not happy about the community being on this instance given the 2nd rule in the list about "no bigotry", and it's kinda hard to praise Trump unequivocally and not be violating that rule...
It's hard to praise Reddit and Lemmy users for that either since they will be absolutely bigoted towards anyone they perceive not falling in line about narratives like trump, Ukraine, war in general, covid, environment, abortion, speech, gender, and more stuff I'm probably forgetting.
The scale of identity privilege allows for quite a lot of hate and bullying as long as it's in the right direction (but it's always very US centric, which is hilariously pathetic).
Yes! I was thinking very similar to this. It's a big overreaction. It's a community of one person or very few. If you aren't on this instance then just don't subscribe or block it. If you are involved in this instance then figure out how to deal with it along with the mods. It seems very quick to jump to defederation of an entire instance for one person.
Sure they might shield their users from one community but they are also blocking them from access to all the quality content from here.
Instances could also remove, ban & purge that remote community to be done with it 👌🏻
That- is what I have been saying....
But, apparently, due to the actions of a single user, on this instance, I suppose everyone is now labeled nazi racists.....
in a nutshell, yea. why defederate from a whole instance over just one single community. just block the specifc community and move along. but people like escalation i guess :/
I've been using this instance more than beehaw cause i wanted a more broad federation view, but i don't want this place to become a Nazi bar. That small sub may grow. If it isn't banned then I'll probably move again and welcome the defedration
what if it doesnt grow at all and continues to be a downvote farm?
What a risk.
I think that is a mistake. Plenty of nice folks on this instance people shouldn't jump to conclusions. Also this discourse on that thread is really problematic. The idea of defederating a whole instance over 1 community is terrible. I would understand. If most of that instance was a troll den that is definitely not the case with this instance
I agree, very much so.
Looks like TheDude@sh.itjust.works likely has a day job. Last commented 15 hours ago... Give it some time.
As an outsider, I wrote already here my thougths. I'm against de-federating, since it's a nuclear option, but I would lie if I say that I'm okay with this situation. Add to this that this server hasn't de-federated exoloding-heads.com (a far right server that really hates trans people) but has no problem with blocking lemmygrad.ml (an awful Tankie server). But in the end that's your decision 🤷🏻
To be fair, lemmygrad was blocked since pretty much day 1, largely because a number of other instances did as well. Exploding heads is a more recent thing, and that was after the agora was set up and the community is still figuring out what policies the instance should have.
I'm guessing exploding heads may be defederated as well, but it may take a few days to decide.
lemmygrad.ml (an awful Tankie server)
I really need to get in the loop on what a tankie is- I have never heard that term until I came over here to lemmyland...
A tankie is someone who defends Chinese and Soviet communism and denies that any of the claimed atrocities happen. In the name of Marxism-Leninism, or Maoism, or Stalinism, they get very angry, attack you and ban you if you think differently, and will fight to the teeth to claim that the tiananmen square massacre, the uyghur genocide, holodomor, any other genocides by Mao, Stalin or whoever you want who's communist, are Western imperialistic propaganda. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There's a whole thing there just like nazis aren't just "people who hate jews but claim the Jewish genocide never happened". Tankies usually also defend Russia in the Russo-Ukrainian War (or "conflict" as they may claim). Then again, Trump supporters usually also defend Russia. Maybe the horseshoe theory is not that crazy.
Basically a "communist" who supports autocracy over socialism. Someone who longs for a boot on their neck, because it comforts them.
I am logged in to sh.itjust.works and I cannot see thedonald or the_donald. You guys sure it's still there?
The user and sub were banned by this instance's admins.
-Good.
The admins of Lemmyworld and Beehaw should be notified so they can de-defederate this server.
They took action so quickly it seems. Notifying the server admins and giving the them some time to fix the issue first might have been a better way to approach this instead of defederating outright without the chance to correct the situation.
:(
I don't think that users on a fledgling platform should be this gung-ho about fragmentation, but it is what it is. Lemmy is starting to feel like something I should just revisit in a year: either to postmortem another perennially niche service, or to finally "pick a side" once the chips are more settled, even though I don't particularly want to.
As an early Mastodon user, it went through something like this when overt Nazis (gab, et al) federated and often used misleading names for instances. The result was an immediate reaction in disgust from the vast majority of the fediverse and rampant defederations of hateful instances.
As an early Mastodon once-user - mostly just to try self-hosting 4fun - that all mostly flew over my head and I'm hoping to do the same here. Though I did mostly follow Pawoo/Baraag artists, which I believe puts me on a similar side of history to said Nazis by current standards? I can't say I'm thrilled by the association but I do get it at least. At the end of the day, to me it just feels silly to get hung up on moderation policies set by people who have never met me, and whom I have never met.
And realistically, the main thing that tapered my interest in Mastodon is I have no idea how to become addicted to Twitter/Twitter-likes. 🤣 I should try again sometime, Misskey seems nice.
Hateful instance run by hateful admin? Sure defederate it. Don’t defederate instances because they’re trying to be more open and popular.
If- this de-federation movement doesn't stop- what will eventually happen-
The large instances will end up defederating so much of the fediverse, that it makes more sense for them to just enable the "private" checkbox.
The end-result, is the failure of lemmy.
failure
It's only a failure from certain perspectives. It happens to be my perspective too, but I can understand where others are coming from. I suppose this is one of them fancy irreconcilable differences thingies.
Personally, I suppose what mostly peeves me about these kinds of approaches is that they don't really seem like solutions. Anyone from a no-no community is still free to employ the time-honored trolling tradition that is alt-juggling for harassment campaigns. Or, I assume that's the case - if there's one thing I really hope everyone at the table can still agree on, it's that extreme privacy-invading measures for preventing alts is a step too far: there's vulnerable voices across all parts of the opinion spectrum. Anyways, because alts exist, defederation measures always felt a bit performative from my perspective. But far be it from me to judge whatever helps people sleep at night. 🤣
I want to take the explanation that this is just a stopgap while moderation tooling develops at face value, but something tells me that isn't the whole of the truth. In the end, I don't think I'll care all that much no matter how this shakes out; touching grass is really fantastic for helping maintain perspective. 👍
This issue has been resolved.
Was going to post this at thedonald but found I'm already banned. Oh well, it was low effort anyway. If anyone who isn't banned wants to execute this better please be my guest.
I’m trying to understand this as a refuge from Reddit. I joined this instance because of the renewable energy commitment. I’m not beholden to this instance, but this seems like something a federated system could handle without banning an instance. Am I confused about how this works?
but this seems like something a federated system could handle without banning an instance. Am I confused about how this works?
No- it can be easily handled multiple other ways too.
At THIS instance level (sh.itjust.works) 4. The community can be removed/blocked. This removes it globally.
Defederation is the complete nuke-from-orbit option, which should only be reserved when you have an instance that is unwilling to work with you to resolve issues.
Aka- you have an instance, owned by spammers, producing spam bots causing negative user experience.
I joined this instance because of the renewable energy commitment.
I keep hearing this. Maybe. I should update my instance and let everyone know my server runs on pure sunlight too. lol
so you're getting rid of the Nazis, right? right?
You guys haven't even defederated from exploding head yet.... Also the dude gave us voting rights so it would be up to the Agora and vote.
While I blocked the community, I don't want my little community blocked because the whole instance is defederated. Should that happen I will leave - an advantage of federation.
Edit: I also blocked the 2 posters. There were only 2.
Defederation is a double-edged sword. In the end, those who defederate will lock themselves into a smaller space and lose out on content produced by users outside of their instance. With how hard it currently is to discover content, a big instance defederating from lots of other instances with little good reason can easily backfire. At least that's how I see it from what I currently understand about Lemmy.
I think people are trying to defederate to filter content, which is not something that defederating is good for right now, cause every big instance has a lot of diverse communities. Also, there's been concerns about bots and safety which makes sense, but that doesn't mean that we're under risk of staying defederated permanently or for any significant amount of time. Moderation tools, content filtering and discovery needs to become much better before that resolved for everyone in a satisfying way.
As for /c/thedonald and communities like it specifically, it's ridiculous to take what seems to me as satire as 100% serious straight up bigotry, but I do understand that we've seen communities with origins in satire turn to serious on the internet before. I think an instance-wide flag for communities that signals that the content is satire when you open them or see a post from them. Allow communities to be created with it from the start but only modifiable by admins afterwards, so you can't take it away or add it after a community is made. It might just work to mitigate this problem and help punish rule breaking quicker and easier.
The most important thing people have on Fediverse is freedom of choice and, I hope, of expression. There are countless isolated communities outside of it, corporate or not, which one can use as a safe space when necessary. I really hope this decentralized archipelago will not turn into a) centralized echo chamber, or b) even more decentralized set of very small echo chambers. We need to be able to experience everything that there is, and react to it if/however we like. And for that, we need substantial amount of communities to be federated to everyone else. I hate when some delusional freak praises Mao or Stalin, who literally washed the land with the blood of the innocent and built a new order on their bones. Or when someone writes a trolling(?) post which implies open racism. But I better be able to read those posts than not.
Why? Racists and fascists can stay on their own instance. If you want to read those posts so bad, just find a server that federated with exploding heads or whatever. Or run your own instance, the one your account is on doesn't federated with either exploding heads nor lemmygrad.
Or just create extra accounts on exploding heads and lemmygrad.
On Mastodon, the overeager admins defederate instances which didn't defederate "bad" instances. Not just the "bad" ones but anyone who doesn't agree they're "bad".
The trouble with having a federated server containing a lot of users/communities promoting bigotry is that it dirties the name of Lemmy. The dirtying dissuades people from joining. It ultimately helps ONLY the group causing the dirtying and harms the majority.
No. It's main developer is just one dude who happens to be a communist.
You can find his github here with all the projects: https://github.com/dessalines?tab=repositories
Dang... I just signed up and picked that instance since it's powered by renewables and the agora exists. I'll give it a minute to see how things go, but looks like I should switch to another instance.
Well shit, if that is your criteria for picking an instance- I meet all of the criteria. lol.
Was actually running completely off-grid for 2 and a half days this week too.
I didn't know about it until I checked Beehaw. It's easy enough to block the community so I can't see it, but I would rather it not be here. TheDonald and The Agora feel like polar opposite ideals.
More drama now targeting sowing discord between the large communities. The Donald sucks but if we remove them then we have to make rules to what communities we will now allow or not. Can't just make special rules for one person.
We already have some rules including a no bigotry rule
No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
So I guess as long as they can follow that rule they can stay, but I doubt it.
"No nazi shit" is a simple rule that should be the default on any decent community. That's enough to get rid of the_donald and anything like that that pops up, without slippery slopes or "special rules for one person"
That is one viewpoint of mine.
If say- you ban the_donald from here- What is the basis that couldn't be applied to also ban https://lemmy.world/c/the_donald
One is hate speech coming from the right. The other is hate speech (self admitted) coming from the left.
Defederalization is not the end of the world. It does get a bit lonely and quiet, though.
Does put a massive hamper on trying to spread alternatives for those looking to escape from reddit though.
Crazy that instances wanna defederate from a whole other instance because there's a community for another political party. Let people who challenge your ideas exist, jesus
But, the cool thing to do, is to call ANYTHING related to trump, or the republican party, racists. /s
Are you just going to downvote every one of my comments?
This isn't reddit. Nobody cares about karma here.
Honestly, I am thinking you are a bot. Not a single comment written, and the only thing you have ever done on your account, is downvote every comment I made in this thread.
Even downvoted THIS COMMENT
I've seen them and blocked them immediately. It's a couple of sad losers posting news (or "news") articles. I'm one of the more vocal supporters of defederating that one instance since they've openly become a bigoted shithole and their mods are in favor of keeping it that way, but this? If T_D showed up on a different instance I'd be generally in favor of that instance banning that community and nipping the problem in the bud (Trumpers have been fine with sitting at a table with Nazis for a while) but I wouldn't be supporting defederaton over a couple of assholes on an otherwise decent instance. Assuming they're not bots, they'll probably get themselves banned soon enough for being awful if we've got enough mods here that can keep a close eye on them, and maybe just using the current rules the moment they start to be openly bigoted is the right play here.
I know the mod tools on Lemmy aren't terribly robust, but are other instances able to block individual communities without defederaton? I would like to believe T_D is a temporary problem here and I think it'd be interesting to see if the current set of rules take out the trash in a timely manner, or if they just fester while building a critical mass before infecting the whole instance.
I know the mod tools on Lemmy aren’t terribly robust, but are other instances able to block individual communities without defederaton?
Actually- that is honestly a good question
While- I can block a community, I do believe that may only affect my account. The purge/remove options exist as well, but, I do believe those are also temporary.
That being said-
At the database level, community_block is defined for a particular person.
Looking at the removed option,
From an admin's perspective, it flags the community as removed.
But, from a user's perspective- the community no longer exists.
That being said- I do believe the remove option might be suitable for this purpose.
I could be wrong here (so forgive me), but wasn't one of the reasons that people flocked to this instance and others was because they didn't want some 'overseer' to make judgments on their behalf? Did they not come here for the freedom to choose what was important and meaningful to them and disregard that which wasn't?
I realize that there are growing pains going on here - that these instances which have been fairly unknown and relatively steady in their user base have now exploded in popularity and have caused many an issue upon communities and admins that were not prepared for such an explosive influx of users.
If we all really want to come together as a community, I believe it is important to understand all of the dynamics that are currently evolving and allow some time for all of this tumult (and influx of users) to settle down before demanding certain actions to be taken.
Personally, I came to sh.itjustworks because when choosing a server the message was "these more popular servers aren't taking new people, go elsewhere."
It said that there would be no bigotry tolerated and I took that at face value and it generally aligned with what I was looking for otherwise and was accepting new users, so I signed up.
I can't speak for others.
Now how that's evolving (Agora, etc) so it's a work in progress and you're right, things aren't necessarily moving on a timeline that suits everyone (including me) because many people are not used to situations where we're having to figure it out as we go along, so here we are.
I don't like the ramping tribalism that's starting to go around, but escalating with more tribalism is definitely not the answer.
Being so defederate-happy would only doom this instance into an echo chamber, possibly even turning into the very thing they're accusing it of being now
Everyone i don't like is a Nazi/tankie/label. The internet is so predictable and boring around this.
Doesn't help when tech has sided with one US political party and we have to pretend that people need to fight amongst each other on identity bullshit issues instead of the political and corporate class doing whatever they want with their power imbalance
But hey, blue Vs red, this Vs that. Cry victim and bully...
We need users to curate their own content instead of demanding circlejerks of identical ideology and inconsistent rules.
Except I'm not American but I'm responding to a post about TD which triggers too many people by simply existing apparently. I wouldn't have even known if this post didn't say it.
And I don't agree with your take. I think the whole left right dichotomies are usually quite bs and people want to bundle stuff like a cellphone plan and most people just go along with no capacity to think for themselves.