1y ago

“Something has gone seriously wrong,” dual-boot systems warn after Microsoft update

arstechnica.com “Something has gone seriously wrong,” dual-boot systems warn after Microsoft update

Microsoft said its update wouldn't install on Linux devices. It did anyway.

Last Tuesday, loads of Linux users—many running packages released as early as this year—started reporting their devices were failing to boot. Instead, they received a cryptic error message that included the phrase: “Something has gone seriously wrong.”

The cause: an update Microsoft issued as part of its monthly patch release. It was intended to close a 2-year-old vulnerability in GRUB, an open source boot loader used to start up many Linux devices. The vulnerability, with a severity rating of 8.6 out of 10, made it possible for hackers to bypass secure boot, the industry standard for ensuring that devices running Windows or other operating systems don’t load malicious firmware or software during the bootup process. CVE-2022-2601 was discovered in 2022, but for unclear reasons, Microsoft patched it only last Tuesday.

...

The reports indicate that multiple distributions, including Debian, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Zorin OS, Puppy Linux, are all affected. Microsoft has yet to acknowledge the error publicly, explain how it wasn’t detected during testing, or provide technical guidance to those affected. Company representatives didn’t respond to an email seeking answers.

Technology @lemmy.ml

“Something has gone seriously wrong,” dual-boot systems warn after Microsoft update

arstechnica.com /security/2024/08/a-patch-microsoft-spent-2-years-preparing-is-making-a-mess-for-some-linux-users/

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So, no booting into Windows until this is fixed then? Fine by me. Hell, might actually make me uninstall it completely and free some disk space...
- Well... It's the opposite... People affected by this issue could not boot Linux...
  
  Right, but you have to boot into Windows first to even get the update on the first place...
- Ahem
  
  Woah, interesting. ~~Is that like a legal option because it looks like it doesn't ask you to provide an image or whatever? Not that I mind either way, just curious if this is prone to be deleted soon or not.~~
  What's the upside of having it in a VM?
  Edit: nevermind the legality, found a disclaimer at the bottom of the page.
  
  Oh cool! I'll need to look into that, thanks! Wonder if there's a way to convert an existing Windows parition into this somehow, installed software and all, because that would be perfect...

CVE-2022-2601 was discovered in 2022, but for unclear reasons, Microsoft patched it only last Tuesday.
I respect their journalistic integrity for not speculating, but it was definitely because the NSA was exploiting it.
- Ehhh that's likely enough, but Microsoft is also just shit at fixing things
  
  That's what they want you to believe.
- So all afected people were potential targets?
  
  Potential targets? Sir, thats everybody.
  
  No, collateral damage.
  
  No, intelligence exploits will sometimes affect the majority of computers on a continent

Secure Boot is bullshit anyway
- It is fine if you only accept signatures from yourself. However, that's a lot of work as you need to sign everything.
  
  Good luck replacing the PKI on your system's Secure Boot firmware. Most platforms probably don't support it and have no documentation
  
  How is it a lot of work? There's generally one sig you have to add on installing a new OS. Sometimes, rarely, one for a new kernel module. It's not like you sign every single package you boot.

I'm confused - why is Microsoft trying to - or expected to, by the article authors - patch a vulnerability in GRUB?
- It was supposed to patch Secure Boot, not demolish GRUB.
  That's why it's a problem.
- I was interested too. It seems Microsoft has released a patch that blacklists vulnerable grub versions from being able to be secure booted even if they are signed properly:
  https://msrc.microsoft.com/update-guide/en-US/advisory/CVE-2022-2601
  The link was at the top of the article.
  Maybe this update somehow affects your UEFI firmware, and it installs a list in there?
- It was a Windows vulnerability that allowed an exploit box GRUB
  
  it was a vulnerability in Grub tho, i understand the Microsoft hate but not to the extant of lying.
- Because they don't want ignorant end users to blame them if the ancient, unpatched version of GRUB that's at issue is used as part of an exploit attacking Windows boxes.

I get to dual boot at work (I run mint btw) and the only reason I ever boot into windows every week or three is to make sure it doesn’t get so out of date that it gets booted from the network.
I guess it’s time to stop that shit! Having windows available is not worth the risk of messing up my work machine. Hell I’m tempted to nuke that windows partition and double the size of my /home partition!
Though I will give Microsoft credit that m365 stuff, including video calls in Teams, work great using the web versions in Firefox. That’s even with the security and privacy stuff cranked up. I only white listed those sites for cookies and local storage for convenience.
- Years ago I finally nuked my Windows dual boot after one of their updates broke it. I still remember my laptop booting into Windows and being so confused. Haven't missed it once.
- Whaaaat, you're having a good experience with teams in Firefox? I've run into all kinds of problems with teams under Firefox in linux, particularly with codecs and not being able to receive video. It works better under edge in linux, but unsurprisingly, the best teams experience is under the native client in Windows.
  
  Yeah, honestly it’s worked fine without any fiddling around. If it makes a difference, I tend to do things like let mint use non-free components if necessary, and I know I do have the “play drm stuff” option turned on I’m Firefox, even though the privacy and security stuff is all strict.
  It’s just a Dell laptop with a discrete nvidia gpu in addition to the embedded Intel one. I think it works fine though with either the open drivers or the closed nvidia ones, but I don’t know if it touches that gpu.

This sort of ridiculousness is why I got two seperate drives (needed the extra space anyways) and choose which one to boot from the mobo EFI menu.

I just tried installing this patch tonight on my windows drive - not because I use windows, just to… you know… keep it updated and secure I guess.
It literally won’t even install. It just fails out every time. Whatever. Microsoft releases so many bad patches lately. WTH are they even doing over there? Windows used to be king and they’ve been screwing it up since 8 came out.
- Microsoft fired its entire QA team 10 years ago, and shifted the responsibility for testing onto developers. They also got rid of their dedicated hardware lab where software would be tested on many different hardware combinations.
  I have worked in two companies that made the same move of firing QA, and in both the quality of the released software took a marked dive. (In neither company did senior management admit that what everyone warned them would be a mistake was a mistake. Instead they blamed developers.)
  These days Microsoft's testing team is whichever users receive each update first. They rely on users and telemetry to do what should be the job of dedicated testers.
  
  This is hardly a new thing for MS. One of the first emails I remember getting when I got to college back in 2003 was from campus IT begging people not to install the latest XP update because it reenabled a vulnerability to existing malware.
  
  Microsoft fired its entire QA team 10 years ago, and shifted the responsibility for testing onto developers. They also got rid of their dedicated hardware lab where software would be tested on many different hardware combinations.
  That...makes SO much sense and explains a lot! Thanks for mentioning it.

windows update can and will always find your dual boot eventually and break it
- I got around that by having two EFI partitions, grub linux partition is loaded always at boot and it chainloads to the Windows EFI boot partition if I choose Windows. Windows does not know another partiton exists.
  
  Yet. They will come for you, too, eventually.

Has SecureBoot ever accomplished anything vaguely resembling security?
- Securing proprietary hardware against peeps installing alt OSes
- Yeah, it made installing Linux more difficult, so it actually lowered computer security by pushing you to use windows
- Yes, it made people realize we don't need Secure Boot and it's just a pit of vulnerabilities.

Maybe its finally time to get rid of my dual boot. I haven't used the windows side in like half a year...
- I was shocked how little I need Windows. I went dual boot install but just... never booted Windows again. My games work. I'm happy. Why should I boot Windows?
  Really I should just remove Windows but I'm lazy.
- And each time you want to use Windows, you have to go through hoops and updates of Windows and then updates of the applications (and possibly games) to just do the work you intended to boot into. I had Windows for a few years in dual mode too and know the problems of a Windows system that is not used often.
  If you really need some applications, then consider using a VM (however doesn't solve the updates and usability issue of Windows). Off course some games won't work, but if its not a game then maybe you can finally get rid of your dual boot.
  
  At this point, the only thing keeping me back is I have a bunch of files made in Clip Studio Paint that I can't open in linux, but I think I might be able to run CSP in a VM, if needs be. Not really anything gaming related.
  Now just to find time to do it lol
- Go for it! You can always do a Windows VM for the rare times you may need it - if at all.

If it's a Linux problem why Microsoft has to patch it?
It's like if someone gives you a ride to the hospital and the doctor treats him instead of you
- I'm not sure I follow that analogy, if you get a ride to a hospital you don't expect it to lock off all other destinations. What happens in the hospital is irrelevant.
  From reading the article, this is more like if you walk into a hotel and they burn down your house so you have no choice but to stay. I suppose in theory you could argue in very bad faith that this is a problem with the house since it's the house that burned, but in reality the problem is the fact they're the ones who started the fire.
  
  We didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the World's been turning
- Because people cannot block darn windows updates. Its a real malware only allowed by law
  
  Microsoft: you can have security updates
  Users: good
  Microsoft: just keep in mind they will make major changes and will totally change the desktop and settings.
  Users: wait what Microsoft Edge opens
- It's a problem in the Secure Boot chain, every system is affected by any vulnerability in any past, present or future bootloader that that system currently trusts. Even if it's an OS you aren't using, an attacker could "just" install that vulnerable bootloader.
  That said, MS had also been patching their own CVE-2023-24932 / CVE-2024-38058, and disabled the fix for that in this update due to widespread issues with it. I don't think anyone knows what they're doing anymore.

booting into windows?

Y'all, help a dummy out. I dual boot windows and Fedora. I only keep windows around for a very few college classes that require for screenwriting software. I have not booted into windows in months. I have a screenwriting class coming up in a week.
How worried should I be? I am not great with computers, I run fedora mostly because I support the philosophy of Linux, less for the techy stuff. Please advice, Linux people. I'm scurred.
- Does that screenwriting software require a lot of performance? You might opt to install Windows into a virtual machine, as described here: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-setup-windows-10-virtual-machine-linux
  Essentially you're using some software to emulate a computer inside your computer that can run any operating system you want. It doesn't need to touch your actual operating system installation, you can treat it as just another program. For your use case that sounds appropriate; you occasionally need to run specific software that has low system requirements. This way you can do that without risking Microsoft borking your Linux machine any time it feels like it.
  
  I'd imagine it requires about as much as a word processor, since that's basically what it is. A word processor with a specialized template and some nifty autofill options. Again, dummy here. If I'm running a virtual machine, can I create a file in it that is saved to my actual machine, or would I need to, like, email it to myself using the virtual windows os?
  
  Don't use Virtualbox as it is a Hype 2 hypervisor not a hype 1. You want actually KVM via Libvirt. Libvirt also has the advantage of not requiring any proprietary software. (Just make sure to install the virtual drivers)
- Sorry idk specifically how to avoid the update, but the linked ArsTechnica article has some advice
  Someone here advised & I’d agree: use a Windows VM, for things you haven’t found the Linux version of yet.
  Windows’s plan to screenshot everything will include your private artistic work too, so you’ll be doing yourself a favor
- When I was still dual-booting Windows and Linux, I found that "raw disk" mode virtual machines worked wonders. I used VirtualBox, so you'd want a guide somewhat like this: https://superuser.com/questions/495025/use-physical-harddisk-in-virtual-box - other VM solutions are available, which don't require you to accept an agreement with Oracle.
  Essentially, rather than setting aside a file on disk as your VM's disk, you can set aside a whole existing disk. That can be a disk that already has Windows installed on it, it doesn't erase what you have. Then you can start Windows in a VM and let it do its updates - since it can't see the bootloader from within the VM, it can't fuck it up. You can run any software that doesn't have particularly high graphics requirement, too.
  I was also able to just "restart in Windows" if I wanted full performance for a game or something like that, but since Linux has gotten very good indeed at running games, that became less and less necessary until one day I just erased my Windows partition to recover the space.
  
  And probably disable quick boot as I'm guessing the kernel is going to get pissed when you suddenly switch between virtualization and native
  
  I've never run a virtual machine, because I've always had, frankly, really shitty laptops. Like... Cheapest of the cheap without being a Chromebook. Only decent computer I've ever bought got broken within a month. :(
  Can I run VMs on really low end specs? The screenwriting software is the only thing I need it for, and I'm assuming it's pretty much the same as running a word processor.
- Does your device have 16gb of ram? If so install Windows in Virtual manager with the guest addons. It will allow copy and paste along with lots of other features while keeping Windows in its own area.
  
  It was 8 gigs. Someone else suggested boxes over a VM, would 8 gigs be enough for either of those?
- However bad that sounds, you're probably best off disabling all updates in windows. O&O shutup10 has a setting for that. Download it to a pendrive with Linux, and boot windows with network unplugged.
  
  I will do this. Thank you!
- If you have trouble make a rEFInd USB stick and boot that
- Do you know which bootloader you have? There are two popular ones in use currently, one called systemd boot, the other is called grub. From reading this post only grub seems to be affected. I don't really know which one fedora defaults to at the moment, and it likely depends on what happened during the installation process as well.
  
  If they're using Fedora, then it is highly likely that they are using GRUB as you have to very much go out of your way to utilize systemd-boot on Fedora the last time I checked.
- Out of curiosity, have you tried Fade In?
  
  I looked into it, but I can't afford it out of pocket. The school pays for final draft, but won't cover anything else :/ If I could, that would definitely be my go-to
- It looks like some GRUB versions are fixed, e.g. possibly in Ubuntu from 22.10. Dunno if Fedora has the fixed version. I'm facing the same with my Mint/Windows dual boot; considering not booting windows till I'm ready to upgrade Mint to 22.
  If you do get problems, it also looks like you can get around it by turning off secure boot until things are sorted.
  If you're not an experienced Linux meddler I wouldn't recommend changing your bootloader from the default given by your distribution, but I guess if this is widespread most distros will upgrade their bootlodladers soon to deal with it.
- Which screenwriting software? Have you tried running it under WINE?
  And do you HAVE to use that one in particular? Or can you use something like Trelby, Manuskript, or Scrite?
  
  The school pays for final draft, and I am poor. But someone else just showed me fade in was free and works with Linux, so I'm gonna try that out!
- Can you install windows in a VM instead? VirtualBox is easy to set up.
  
  Don't use Virtualbox as native libvirt will be faster and doesn't involve any licensing.

“The SBAT value is not applied to dual-boot systems that boot both Windows and Linux and should not affect these systems,” the bulletin read. “You might find that older Linux distribution ISOs will not boot. If this occurs, work with your Linux vendor to get an update.”
Excuse me, those are the opposite of each other.

I use Debian and I also was affected by this Windows update. I was able to boot by disabling secure boot. I also found this option that apparently fixes the problem by changing the sbat policy using mokutil. But I haven't tried it out yet. Has anyone got any luck with something else besides disabling secure boot?
- Windows into a VM
  
  For the win!

They had to know this would happen, right?
Like, they didn't think to test with a dual booting system? Wtf?
Where do they even get off fixing a bug in grub?

Always install rEFInd Always keep a rEFInd USB stick around Basic Computer 101
- Is this instead of grub, or in adding to?
  
  Addition to, it's basically a bootloader selector with some extra stuff

It ain't done til GRUB don't run?

😈😈 Finally an advantage to using rEFInd 😈😈
- I was gonna say, I don’t like to victim blame but why would people be grubbing around these days to begin with?
  
  I use grub, but had no issue. My dual boot is arch and FreeBSD.

I'm sure it was a terrible misunderstanding.
Anyway they are only hurting themselves.

Jokes on Microsoft. I downgraded to Windows 10 and disabled secure boot for my dual boot so I could be one step closer to being done with them completely.

CVE-2022-2601 was discovered in 2022, but for unclear reasons, Microsoft patched it only last Tuesday.

I use refined with cachyos dual booting windows 11 and secure boot enabled should I worry
- You should worry about your writing skills. Try some punctuation, for starters.

yet another reason to use sd-boot?

164 comments