2y ago

Now is the time to change the sub name

The mods of reddit/r/twoxchromosomes knew that their sub name was gender essentialist from a month after they created a "women's" sub with chromosomes in the name. They had every opportunity to do the right thing and migrate their community to a different /r/. But they didn't, they continued to promote a sub built on transphobia until it was a default sub putting gender essentialism in front of every single new user on the site.

The migration to Lemmy is the perfect time to undo the wrongs of the past. It's a brand new community and we have a chance to do some good. We're not beholden to the names of the past.

Mods: Please please please PLEASE lock this community, delete all posts, and pin a redirect to a community with a better name. Why not /c/women or /c/genderdiversity? There are a hundred names better than this one. What's the justification for the twoxchromosomes name

The name XX was chosen just because it illustrates the essence of this subreddit and its target Redditors–girly and geeky, and subtly awesome. (You can look here and here to see how the name came about.)

Really? We're going to associate girliness with a genotype? We're going to brag about being cisgender? There is no excuse for platforming these ideas. Now is the time to do better.

41 comments

- This isn't a community for XX people. Nothing other than the name or transphobia would suggest that it is.
  The community rules are very clear on this point: https://slrpnk.net/comment/195833
  
  And the fact that we have a subreddit for gender discussions named after the genotype of cis women causing CONSTANT disagreement about what the sub is for is a huge problem. On the left, you have two groups: People who say the name has absolutely zilch to do with what the sub is for (which means it's a bad name), and people who say the rules don't accurately reflect the design affordances of the name (which means it's a bad name). Meanwhile on the right, you have TERFs like the subreddit mods who think "Two X Chromosomes" is a perfect name for a women's community.
- Should you really be weighing in Mr. Wiley? Your post history indicates you have some interesting ideas on marginalized groups that you don't seem to be a part of.

This is not a new suggestion. We posted about this from the very start

I understand the concerns OP mentions, but I've always seen the r/TwoX as a welcoming place for women, people identifying as women, people identifying as male, or anyone else but acting like a biggot or being rude. It just kinda seemed like a tounge in cheek way to identify it is a feminine oriented sub. I didn't ever see it used as a gatekeeping thing.
My only minor gripe with naming everything the same as in Reddit is that it feels unoriginal. I get it does help people find the communities they want, but it feels a little less exciting than starting something new.
I don't really care what the name is, dumb names haven't stopped me from enjoying other things I like. Keep it, change it, I just like to check in now and then because I find this forum helps me understand and empathize with other people's opinions, like yours. I never gave a second thought about the name, but now I will. I think it's harmless, but now I will consider that may but be the case to everyone. Hopefully you can appreciate the people here, even if you don't appreciate the name. Again, I don't get a feeling the name was ever given with bad intention.
- Thank you for your understanding, and I'd like to clarify another point. It's not that the name makes me or other trans people feel excluded, it's that the name makes TERFs and moderates feel it's okay to exclude trans people. There's a TERF in this very thread who is claiming misogyny is a matter of chromosomes, and chromosomes are essential to the female experience. She hasn't been banned yet. Maybe she'll be banned later, or maybe the mods will ignore her like they've ignored trans people's concerns about the sub name from day one on this site.
  When you open your mouth, everything you say platforms a set of unspoken assumptions that underlie your worldview. If you say "the weather's great, look at that beautiful blue sky today", then you're platforming the idea that the sky is blue. Now, nobody has any reason to disagree that the sky is blue, but we also platform more serious ideas all the time. Like the idea that chromosomes determine gender. That's an idea platformed by the name of this sub. And it's gonna take constant effort, forever, to counteract this platforming if this sub gets big. And even with all that effort, the name is still gonna embolden TERFs we can't reach. Or, we can just change the name.

This is similar to a situation where a community is created for people of color in health sciences named MedicineAndMelanin, and it gets attacked by someone who is black and has albinism because she feels its a personal affront against her. The name wasn't picked because they intended to exclude people with albinism, they picked it because it expressed the topical goals of the sub along with a cheeky and medicine-specific metonym for race.
Saying 2X is girly is like saying pink is girly. A lot of women have 2 X chromosomes, and a lot of women (and non-traditionally masculine identifying people for that matter) like the color pink. It's obviously true in the current social context, but is not necessarily meant to be exclusive. You can still read pinknews even though you don't have an affinity for that color. The name was chosen because 2X expresses geekiness like melanin expresses medical science, not because it is essential to being woman or black. In the long history of Reddit's 2XC, they have always maintained a reputation of being inclusive to trans women, consistent with my experience with communities of intelligent, geeky women.
I support your vendetta against TERFs. I think you're picking the wrong target. I suspect the mod of 2X would be happy to have your help flagging actual trans-exclusion and posting content supportive of trans-women in her community.
- The difference between melanin and chromosomes is that chromosomes are a controversial political issue. The difference is the impact of the words. You're not going to sow division and embolden racism by saying black people have melanin. But when it comes to women and chromosomes, that's exactly the consequence. We don't make decisions based on symbolic similarities, we make decisions based on the consequences.
  
  You’re not going to sow division and embolden racism by saying black people have melanin.
  Not sure about English, but translated into my native language it would be very much a dogwistle for racism.

There is !women@lemmy.world and !feminism@beehaw.org. Also I always thought the name of the sub came from a desire to make search more difficult to avoid brigading. Not that I'm against a rebranding. I'm trans myself and certainly see/feel the issues.
EDIT: Lol I actually instigated the creation of this community. See here: https://slrpnk.net/comment/195095 As you can see the name was brought up immediately and the @GreatWhiteBuffalo41@slrpnk.net acknowledged the issues and intends to be active in both.
- There's also https://lemmy.world/c/chaotesvspatriarchy, but I didn't want to seem like I was advertising myself. There are plenty of great choices and lots of people have had good ideas. twox just isn't one of them

Anyone is welcome to make their own community but this one will stay as is. The propose of using this name was to bring in the people transitioning from Reddit to a familiar community name. You do not have to stay here if you do not like it however, any woman who identifies as a woman is welcome as stated in not one but two stickied posts as well as the header image.

Hello. I'm a man who is not subscribed here and I have some suggestions:
coolchix
hotchix (As an Australian, I like this one because it's like Hot Chips)
ladies
ladiesifyouknowwhatimean
shavingoptional
witchesvspatriarchy
That last one was serious.
- The last one is already a community/sublemmy. Or were you listing already existing subs?
  
  The rest were just funny names I thought of, but in the last one I was asking why they don't just go to witchesvspatriarchy rather than this sub?

I support the effort, but I think the biggest obstacle is simply that the current name is familiar and catchy. So the alternative should be recognizably similar and also catchy.
I propose:
twoxcatacombs
Sounds good, right? Easy to spell. Slightly witchy feel? Any thoughts? I know it's a little silly, but type it a few times and tell me it doesn't grow on you.
- We can just put a link to the new space in this familiar space. Turn this sub into a redirect.
  However, the mods have stated they're never going to change the name, so that sucks
  
  Well anyone in the community can do it. You should. Start a group called "twoxcataombs" and see if it catches on. I'd do it, but I'm a guy. Doesn't feel right.

Come on. The absolute basis of womanhood are the XX chromosomes for the vast majority of women. To be denied our lived experience is bullshit.
Those chromosomes have caused me to start getting catcalled at 12 years old. We've been treated like shit and oppressed for thousands of years and we've only begun to have emancipation. And now what we can't have a community that isn't even transexclusionary?!
There's /c/women there are other communities if the name bothers you.
- I didn't know strangers on the street were consulting DNA test results to decide whether to catcall you. I thought they were just looking at external markers of gender. Markers that would be 100% visible on trans girls and AFAB intersex people. I don't see how being a young women and subject to misogyny has anything to do with your chromosomes, unless you're convinced that chromosomes define gender.
- Just FYI, because it seems like you want a trans-exclusionary sub, this is not the one for you. Sidebar rules state the belief here is that trans women are women, and as OP pointed out, the misogyny you describe is often a result of gender perception rather than chromosomal makeup.

41 comments