2y ago

important rulepost

195 @lemmy.world

important rulepost

3 29

123 comments

Agree with you in general, but I think a lot if people here are not really informed what differences there are materialistic ideologies.
Yes, Stalin bad.
But Guevara is not Stalin.
Marx is not che
Engels is not Marx
China is not communist.
Marxism is not materialism
Socialism is not communism
Also the amount of people bringing the "the 3 times people tried socialism were bad, so the whole ideology must be bad" argument are way to high IMHO.
How many times was capitalism tried? How many times it worked out? Is the USA a "functioning" state with all the oppression, racism, greed, invading other countries out of monetarian interest and environment destruction?
While I agree with you, that oppression is bad, no matter what the oppressor calls himself, we should talk about policies without resorting to dogmas and generalising people in favor of fear the hegemonic class is propagating to stay in power.
- Yeah, that's not the tankies here; these are "North Korea is a great country, actually" tankies.
  
  Also, "anything negative about a communist country is US propaganda"
  
  Should probably listen to Blowback Season 3.
  Not to say they're a perfect country but to pretend that anyone in the West can critique them when their material conditions are dictated by the actions of the West is just comical.
  If you aren't a materialist, what are you even doing? As if history happens in the realm of pure thought.....
- When a liberal says "tankie" they mean anything remotely communist-looking. When a leftist says "tankie", they mean authoritarians who like red flags and self-proclaimed communists who nonetheless support hierarchies and have no plan or intention to bring them down. I think the vast majority of people here knows this already.
  
  I think the vast majority of people here knows this already.
  You are way optimistic.
  
  Mostly True, while (at least in my part of the world) there are a lot of people who like red flags but fight against hierarchies.
- Is the USA a “functioning” state with all the oppression, racism, greed, invading other countries out of monetarian interest and environment destruction?
  I hope you realize that this is an incredibly privileged take. The US is rife with issues, but the hardships experienced by the average western citizen doesn't even compare to the suffering that you would find in, say, Pol Pot's Cambodia, or (to a less extreme extent) Maduro's Venezuela. To compare what a US citizen deals with on a daily basis due to capitalism to what a citizen of any of those countries had to go through is very reductive and may be perceived as disrespectful to many who had to live those experiences.
  
  The US is rife with issues, but the hardships experienced by the average western citizen doesn’t even compare to the suffering that you would find in, say, Pol Pot’s Cambodia
  I have some fellas from Detroit that would disagree.
  
  The United States, for all it's faults, is the pretty side of capitalism.you don't even need to look to the most poor countries to see a standard of living that makes even directly post ww2 soviet union look like a great place.
  
  Well of course the standard of living in the imperial core is higher than the countries it has exploited or destabilized. A lot of American wealth is the fruit of imperialism.
  
  Im not from USA, and from my point of view its mich worse than most other countries (no healthcare, no independend courts, murder sprees in schools nearly every day, opression of half of the world (a half of them just to get more oil to destroy the planet faster), one of 3 of the biggest war-pushers in whole earth, polutes and destroys earth mode than every other country per citizens, etc. PP.)
  capitalism mostly opresses and profits from people out of the country to Funktion. if its Bad in Venezuela or Cuba or Afghanistan, or even early russia, thats at least partly fault of US.
  Venezuela is not communism, China isnt, russia isnt. Most of them have failed, at least partly because caputalist societys atack them and stop a as soon as they are born and they can't form a stable democracy. Before reading Marx, your bashing of communism isnt worth anything, as you clearly don't understand what you are talking about. We never had communism, and some would say not even socialism. You sound like you don't even know the difference, since you keep talking about communism, which is a utopian society after humanity has stopped a lot of bad habits and has learned to live without working against each other in competition and working together instead, which arises maybe after generations of workig socialism, which we clearly didn't have.
  4.you exactly prove my point. I dont agree with tankies either, but the number of people around here blindly copying capitalist propaganda while understanding nothing they bash about is too damm high.

tankies more like no thankies

Based.
They already have lemmygrad.
Honestly, I don't think we need them here.
- the have genzdong in there lol

there's literally a community called "moretankie196", they should go infest that one instead
- "lemmygrad.ml" was the most infested for the last year, "lemmy.ml" the 2nd worst. They ban for being lucid. ".ml" stands for Marxist Leninist !
  
  actually it was chosen because the .ml domain is ludicrously cheap to get, like to the level of basically being free

Can we have something like tankiejerk here? I seriously liked browsing that sub after a bad day with the red fashs.
- that sub often tended towards outright anti-leftism

I got banned from lemmygrad for saying acab means all cops lmao
- they yearn for the glorious people's boot
  
  500 years ago these mfs were the pro monarchy serfs
- Meanwhile anarchist organizing doesn't have cops, it has Agents of Community Defense who definitely aren't cops!
  I have nothing against anarchists, but you need to see past slogans to be anything but a useful idiot to neoliberals.
  
  I mean any person or entity that enforces oppressive laws is a bastard. The government of China is far from some sort of benevolent state.

Just removed like 40 comments and banned a buncha people.

This comment section is really something uh
- Tankies on their way to explain why teaming up with the Nazis to conquer Poland is actually based and totally in line with Marxist philosophy.
  
  Can you give an actual example?

What are some good actual communist lemmy communities that aren't supporting the fucking capitalist imperialist russian invasion?
- look for anarchists if you desire a classless, stateless, moneyless society.
  communism has been coopted by auth apologists infatuated with the color red.
  
  But what if I'm not an anarchist? I like Marx but not Lenin, so I can't be an ML either.

finds social media developed by tankies
looks inside
finds tankies
fr I'm down with having a good old purge eventually but noone should be surprised
- removed by mod

When a leftist, or progressive says “tankie” it is different from what the mainstream media perceives. It (tankie) indicates someone who is overzealously supportive of non-Western imperialist countries such as Russia and China and denies their atrocities.
Also, the term developed from the tanks deplored by the user to invade Hungary and denote people who supported such action.

Thank fuck. I thought Lemmy was some ultra militant leftist hellhole before the shift.
I don't like extreme radical left any more than extreme radical right.
Fuck Che Guevara. Read a book.
- tankies arent radical left. they are authoritarians ffs
- Che Guevara did a lot of good for people, like the people of Cuba. Considering he fought, and helped Cuba free itself from being a colony to the United States and against Batista. I didn't know people fighting for the right to not be under colonial rule and have their own self determination is "extreme".
  Also maybe go check out "On revolutionary medicine" by Che Guevara. I'll also leave this quote from him.
  ...the life of a single human being, is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest man on earth...
- How about Saw Gerrera?
- what if the book is Che Guevaras "Guerrilla Warfare"
  
  Is being a good tactician and being a genocidal, totalitarian extremist an oil and water situation?
  He can be both.

What's a tankie?
- When the Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968, there were some british leftists who cheered for those tanks driving into Prague. They proved by this that they didn't care about leftism, socialism, democracy or anti-imperialism at all - they approved the imperialism and militarism of the Soviet regime.
  Their praise for the rolling tanks is what gave them their name: Tankies.
  So, people who love North Korea, or defend russia invading Ukraine, people, who stand by even the most autoritarian, anti-democratic, militaristic, imperialistic regimes - just because they call themselves "socialist" or "communist" - are "Tankies".
  
  oh ok so bhreznevites
- It's the prog-lib equivalent of woke. It's used dismiss leftists with out engaging with our arguments. The term has lite ideological or argumentative use.
  
  Libs use it that way, actual leftists use it to describe fascists that think they're on the left and like red flags.

I have always wondered why it always says "Kick _" when she is punching instead of kicking. Lol.

300 Comments already. Oh my god! Lol.

This post has literally 6 times the comments of the next most-comments post, jesus. Wonder what could have triggered this!

Honest question - what's a tankie? I feel like I've seen them mentioned a ton on Lemmy but I'd never heard the term prior to a few days ago. From the image it looks like a maga/skinhead combo?
- Tankie was first used for that kind of communist supporter who kept singing Russia's praises/defending Russia even when Russia was sent 5000 tanks to crush a popular uprising in Czechoslovakia (the "Prague Spring") on August 20, 1968. Some people just couldn't accept that a communist country could do something bad, so defended the action.
  Nowadays, it's used to refer to those that are strongly supportive of Russia, completely ignoring the awful things they do. Often these days there's a lot of anti American bent to it. Like, anything anti America and American "imperialism" must be good - even blatant and awful Russian Imperialism.
  These days they calmly explain how Ukraine just needs to come to the table and discuss peace (ignoring that Ukraine wouldn't exist if they did so) and blame America for the war in Ukraine for... well... they're America. The people who want war, or are causing the war, are those giving Ukraine weapons - not the country that is literally invading it.
  
  Thanks for the explanation. I believe they are also called Rashists, at least Ukrainians call them that.
  
  I think a better term is "Campist" which is the trend within revisionist marxists to side with one imperialist camp to oppose another. it's the same shit the SPD did during WW1
- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
  Basically, it's Communists who support authoritarianism.
  
  what is "authoritarianism" to you?
- They're communists, but not your every day "people should hold the power" communists. More like "tianenmen never happened, and if it did it wasn't that bad" type
  
  Which makes them no different from the western imperialists they hate so much.
- Originally, it was used to describe communists who followed the party line and supported suppressing Hungarian workers with tanks.
  Today it means ultra-authoritarian marxist-leninist.
  
  I mean there is a word for that that's less derogatory: Stalinist
- genocide denier and hard authoritarian. fash dressed in red, basically.

I don't know what tankies are and at this point I'm too afraid to ask
- Usually people who advocate military communism, such as defending tiananmen square, Stalin, and more. Basically it's usually the belief that anything a government professing to be communist does must be good.
  
  I should emphasize that a lot of pro-Western outlets and commentators have recently weaponised the term to discredit any diverging points of view re-the Ukraine War. So someone like Cornel West would be a "tankie" by this point of view, which is actually kind of disgusting in how dishonest it is.

Why are Blanquists even in the Fediverse? The Fediverse is about decentralization while Blanquists are for the extreme opposite.

Baaaased

How a lot of you sound
- No one is suggesting that the states the authoritarian communists replaced were good or functional, just that they failed to actually uplift and make people's lives better. There's nothing to admire about one oppressive state being replaced by another.

why?

Literally just made an account and am just a Reddit pleb. What exactly are tankies and what is 196? Guessing it's a Lemmy server but otherwise unsure
- 196 is a shitpost sub where you must post something when you vist
  a tankie is a authoritarian that believes they're a communist. they support the imperialist invasion of Ukraine, and they deny the tianaman square massacre, where the CCP ran tanks over college students protesting the authoritarian government. they deny a bunch of other atrocities as well, these are the only two i can think of right now.
  a lot of tankies are going to be posting an essay by Engles that defends authoritarianism, asserting that authoritarianism is compatible with communism. which, while sure, isn't ideal because one person having power always ends in genocide. well, it doesn't end in genocide, genocide just... happens under authoritarianism.
- To quote wikipedia
  Tankie is a pejorative label for communists, particularly Stalinists, who support the authoritarian tendencies of Marxism–Leninism or, more generally, authoritarian states associated with Marxism–Leninism in history. The term was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defense of the Soviet use of tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring uprising, or who more broadly adhered to pro-Soviet positions.
- Tankies are far left Marxists/Communists that are so anti- USA/West that they gladly defend almost anything that opposes the USA. Even authoritarian states like Russia and China. To be clear not every Communist is a Tankie through. And if you critizises on of this countries for horrible stuff, the Tankies will see you automatically as a USA chill. Because, from my online interactions with them, they see the world in black and white.

b b b b b based

123 comments