Your value is not determined by your productivity.
In a capitalist world, it can be hard to remember this. But despite what you are pressured to think, your value as a person does not come through what material value you create for others.
I find the current tone of the comments in this thread rather upsetting. It feels like a lot of people are arguing to refute OPs position that a person's value is not determined from their material productivity. If this is you, I think you might be in the wrong community. I don't think this is a point of debate in the simple living community.
To say that a person's value is derived from their productivity is to say that you do not value the person, but what they produce. This can be interpreted as viewing a person as a Means to any End, rather than an End in themselves. For me, viewing people as Ends in themselves is a foundational pathos of Simple Living. The idea of valuing people, relationships, love, time, above wealth, material, prestige, speed is what simple living is all about!
Well wishes to you all 😊
"Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things.” Terry Pratchett
Agreed, and it's a problem we need to nip in the bud before it becomes entrenched.
I would say the pushback is not about how it should be, but about how it works in reality. Paragons still struggle with bills or working/living conditions while grifters live comfortably. The disconnect makes the "you matter" stuff look like nothing more than a platitude. Maybe that take is cynical, but it's not without roots.
Particularly worse with all the systems in USA, I'd say it's much less likely to make individuals feel valued and thus less conducive to simple living. I say that as someone all-but-stranded (semi-rural) in a "this is fine" simple life (I've thought about living in an intentional community, but I don't ever see that working out for me).
Thank you for your well put reply, and I agree, your position is not without roots. Though, I'd like to humbly suggest that your points may actually support the notion that runaway modern capitalism does not effectively determine a person's value. I would argue that the fact that a paragon can struggle economically and a grifter can swindle their way to high fortune shows that capitalism does not equitably reward good and punish evil. Therefore, a person should not allow their financial status (the value capitalism has assigned them) to be the measure of their personal value.
On the point of the system's undervaluing of people and their work (which is absolutely true) making it harder to lead a simple life, I'm not sure the two are connected. Being compensated well makes things much much easier, but that doesn't make things simpler. A person can live a very modest life that is simple, tranquil, and full of joy. Someone can also be extremely wealthy and ambitious with a fast paced life full of complexity, stress, and anguish.
I'm very sorry that youre feelings stuck. It's frustrating and it absolutely can feel patronizingly when you're struggling for better and someone tries to placate you with platitudes. But, the gift of simple living is that by appreciating the little things, removing stressful complexly, and slowing down, anyone in any situation can have more peace and happiness in their situation, even if it doesn't get better.
Warmest wishes my friend and be well.
I wish I could believe that, but everyone in my life blatantly shows that they only appreciate me when I can do things for them and just tolerate me between useful events.
Sounds like you need some friends, friend. Those aren't them.
You're right. I can count on one hand the people who I called friend for the sake of just being friends. Sadly, life eventually pulls us apart.
A lot of sociopaths propagate the lie that everyone in the world is as selfish and corrupt as they are. These people are the ones who are controlling capital. It's their incapability to be normal like everyone else that's responsible for their sociopathy and also their projection of values.
Don't be fooled, you're sane if you reject the capitalistic ideals. It's insane to make somebody else disproportionately wealthy with your hardwork and ideas.
... it is valued by how hard it is to replace you.
All individuals are irreplaceable.
A nice sentiment, but not very helpful for navigating reality.
Long story short: You are valued by others based on how much value you create for others. Stated this way, it's a totally obvious conclusion that is possibly easy to forget.
And like another commenter already said, this is true regardless of your preferred economic world view and politics. It's a simple life lesson.
It's not even really that. Paris Hilton? As replaceable as the next individual human. Almost totally without any production or material value, yet loaded with worth. There are dozens of people like her. Or on a smaller scale, many mid-upper level managers are completely interchangeable and produce little to nothing, but are valued far more than someone working in a packing plant.
Worth and value have no correlation in our society. People who have money have it because they have money, not because they work harder or do more important things. Some people do have money and also work hard or do important things, sure, but it isn't correlated.
It's probably best to flip this on its head. Rather than thinking "others must value me regardless of my productivity"--something you have no control over--instead think "I must show others that I value them not based on any benefit to me". I.e. be the change you seek.
Agreed. Id take a step further even though. What one does for WORK to provide for themselves doesn't give them value either. For example, a doctor, paramedic or nurse can save a life in the course of their work which adds value to others and may provide purpose to the healthcare worker - but ultimately it's a dangerous trap to begin believing that this is inherently their value as humans. We all have a value by just existing, experiencing and interacting together. Our society has made it so that one of the questions we ask first is "what do you do for work?" Because we so often wrap up our profession in our identity and value
So the value of a person is determined by how much the person creates for himself?
Everyone, including yourself, has their own perspective on the value of your actions. You may value your actions to be of greater value than someone else does, but ignoring others’ opinion of that value entirely is perilous.
What do you envision your value being derived from? Just existing doesn't make someone valuable, it make them a drain on society. You need to contribute something.
I think the misunderstanding here is: What does productivity mean?
I interpreted the OP to mean productivity as "capitalist productivity" - meaning, how much money can you make for your king boss. People can still be productive in lots of ways that aren't considered "capitalist productivity" - for example, I love to garden, take care of greenscapes, and grow food on a small scale. Some people might not be able to do that, but they are wise and great at navigating social situations, and act as the center of their community. Both of those are productive, but often are not "capitalist productive", if that makes any sense.
So I agree with both OP and you - a person's value isn't determined by their ability to produce capital.
Exactly. Far too many people misinterpreted this on /r/antiwork as well — they were never saying that everyone should sit around waiting on someone else to provide everyone for them; they were talking about ending the capitalist work paradigm.
Many people here have never read a shred of political theory, and it shows. People should start here. It explains just how much of the work we do under capitalism is unnecessary for the wellbeing of society, and only serves to enrich the capitalist class. It is very possible for us all to do less work, have more leisure, and still have plenty for everyone.
What would you say to someone with a chronic illness? What would you say if that person was you or your own kid?
@MossBear i accept that your physical pain is real and difficult to cope with, but please don't make it worse through emotional distress and mental pain
biggest lie there is. Case in point: People don't need incentive to preserve their environment. Incentives actually corrupt our motives.
Preserving your environment would be contributing something, so I'm not really sure how your statement is meant to be interpreted.