1y ago

Gonna need some ice for that burn.

121 comments

Oh how the mighty have fallen. Vice used to be fucking based. This makes me really sad. Especially disingenuous disinformation like this. Ask someone with ADHD how life saving stimulants like adderall or similar has been for them. It’s nothing like meth, which typically ruins lives.
- I don't know or care about Vice, but I've noticed that this particular issue, the comparison between Adderall and meth, seriously upsets people.
  Is it that hard to believe that a substance can be therapeutic at certain doses AND easily abused at others? I get it, minor differences in chemical structure can lead to drastic differences in effects. But in this case? Doesn't seem all that different. I knew a kid in college whose cocktail of choice for a night out was six 30mg Addys + alcohol—and the biggest difference between that and meth, as far as I can tell, is the part about going out.
  
  They are absolutely nothing alike. Adderall is ridiculously easy to get in college and that is why that kid did that. That shit gets spread around like candy on college campuses.
  You can't even smoke adderall. Comparing the two is like comparing 16 fl oz of decaf (like 40mg of caffeine) to 16 fl oz of espresso (1,040 mg). They are not even close to comparable. Nobody outside of college is doing adderall for fun and the ones that are doing that in college are removed because there are better drugs that are still readily available on campus.
  
  Good lord, how’s that kid doing these days?
- I know! I used to love their reporting, now it’s rare to find an article that isn’t straight up trash. I don’t have ADHD but I take stimulants to counteract severe lupus-related fatigue. I used to have “mega sleeps” where I’d sleep up to 30 hours at a time (waking up for a pee a few times). It was no life.
  
  Apologies I coult resist
  
  Indeed you need meth
- Ritalin/concerta (the other big ADHD drug) is literally methylphenidate. "Meth" is in the name. Adderall is an amphetamine, the other half to "methamphetamine" ....
  There's actually chemical similarities between the drug. Fact is: though similar, there's a large gap between taking a drug as prescribed by a medical professional in a controlled dosage, versus hitting the pipe behind the dumpster....
  I would argue that these drugs like many psychoactive drugs, when abused, could be just as hazardous as their illegal counterpart, however, in clinical use cases, they can be life changing.
  There's an ocean of difference between results if you compare what's found on the street, to what's in the bottle from the pharmacy.
  This is the case for a lot of chemicals. Even pure cocaine has a place in medicine. The difference between something like methamphetamine bought from a street dealer, and the contents of Adderall or Ritalin/concerta, is huge. Minimizing that difference is doing a disservice to the public and only serves to spread FUD.
  
  It's worth noting that doctors can literally prescribe methamphetamine to someone with ADHD. It's brand name is Desoxyn.
  
  So you're saying that methane works the same as methamphetamine?
  
  Amphetamine and methamphetamine are not that similar. Just because a chemical has a similar structure does not mean it is exactly the same. Buproprion is chemically almost exactly the same as ephedrine but have wildly different effects. Adderall is an amphetamine, vyvanse is an amphetamine.
  These other drugs often leave most people feeling like shit, nobody is doing adderrall or these other drugs recreationally. Crystal meth gives you such a ridiculous dopamine rush that you feel like you are on top of the world, like you can conquer anything, but it will give you delusions and eventually that starts to go away.
- Vice has been utter shit for most of it's existence.

Water is "almost identical" to hydrogen peroxide.
- Food and poop are both composed of atoms, so there's essentially no difference between them.
  
  Says the copromaniac.

I came here to talk about methyl groups and no one gives them a mention :(
- I'm not a chemist but I like drugs. What's up with methyl groups?
  
  A methyl group is the name given to single carbon (with 3 hydrogens attached) when substituted onto a larger chemical moiety (a structure or motif in chemistry). When people speak about methyl groups they're mostly speaking about those single carbon methyl group being attached to a heteroatom (atoms other than carbon and hydrogen in organic chemistry, like nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur, etc.).
  Methamphetamine (N-methylamphetamine or N-methyl alpha-methyl-phenyl-ethylamine in full form) has a methyl group on it's amine (nitrogen or N-position), which drastically alters its psychological effects and the way it's synthesized by chemists (requiring methylamine). The methyl group there prolonges the stimulating effects, while also providing serotonergic effects (generally euphoric effects caused by interaction with the serotonin receptor transport protein), which gives it much greater addiction potential.
  Methyl groups in general don't "make drugs stronger" like the other guy said. To consider drug receptor interaction you need to take into account how well a molecule fits into the receptor you're targetting as a whole.
- I’m still waiting for someone to acknowledge my extremely lame pun in the title. It’s hard being this unfunny.
  
  It made me think of Beth's song from Dog the Bounty Hunter if that means anything. I finally realized its a Barnes and Barnes joke as well.

I mean, Methamphetamine is extremely similar, pharmacologically, with Adderall. Desoxyn is the 'medicine brand name' for meth, to treat ADHD.
Biggest difference between Crystal Meth, the street drug, and Desoxyn, the medicine, is dosage. A Desoxyn tablet is about 100x less methamphetamine than you'd take to 'get high'. (not to mention, pills have a slower release than smoking it).
And yeah, there are other differences between Adderall and Meth; for the most part, Adderall is safer, less addictive, and less 'makes you high'. So there's very few people still using Desoxyn, but it is still out there. For reasons that aren't really understood, Methamphetamine does work to treat a few people's ADHD for whom Adderall doesn't do much.
(and, for that matter, there are a pretty huge array of different amphetamines to treat ADHD and similar things, that are all subtly different in not very well understood ways, made messier by the fact that pharmaceutical companies making sure to push out a new drug, that might just be a new mix of existing drugs, every 10 years, for patent reasons. But Desoxyn is basically a 'last resort' to throw at the wall, if the patient hasn't responded well to any of the others.)
- I feel like the biggest difference by far is that most amphetamines are prescribed in XR formulations these days. The feeling caused by a slow trickle of product from a laser-drilled capsule or time-release beads over 8-12 hours is incomparable to the rush of smoking or snorting powdered amphetamine. For a lot of drugs the biggest addiction driver is actually the rise rate which causes the "hit". i.e. compare addictive cigarettes with nearly harmless pipe.
  That's why when people abuse Adderall they usually crush it up and toot it, and they aren't railing 100 tablets at a go.
  Myself I have taken Adderall and now take Dexadrine (it's cheaper) and have never felt any addictive pull from either. When I go camping I always take a multi-day break and never feel any ill effects other than a desire to chase squirrels and bother strangers with excessive chat.
  I always bring some with me though so I can take one on the last day and effectively pack up my campsite without leaving anything behind, lol
- I'm just putting this out there, that, cocaine also helps treat ADHD.
  It's not used in clinical treatments, but it has been observed that while neurotypical brains exposed to cocaine get an unfocused energy increase, ADHD brains tend to get a higher level of focus with that energy increase.
  Theoretically it's possible for someone to treat their own ADHD using cocaine.
  .... It's a really bad idea, but it's possible.
  
  I mean, original coca cola, or even chewing coca leaves like South Americans could probably do the trick.

Ah yes, that's what the methheads in my state are smoking, Adderall! Not methamphetamine (or are they, since they are the same thing now apparently?)
It's so clear to me now, why wouldn't you? Adderall is so much cheaper than methamphetamine and readily available!

Here's an article by a psychiatrist that goes into more detail.
This study asks abusers how much they use in an average day, and gets numbers from about 300 to 800 mg. An average clinical dose of either Adderall or Desoxyn would be about 20 mg a day.
It also talks about that meth acting more quickly (which can make it more addicting), and people injecting or snorting it (which makes it act more quickly).
- Nice source/quote! Just to add my personal experience, when I was first put on modafinil (diphenylmethyl-sulfinylacetamide) for debilitating fatigue and brain fog, I asked my doctor if I’d experience a high or feel super focused. He explained that taking 200mg of modafinil would make an otherwise healthy person 20% more stimulated (for example). But there’s something wrong with me so I’m only functioning at 60% to begin with. When I take 200mg modafinil it also stimulates me by 20%, but that only brings me up to 90% of what a normal healthy person feels like anyway. So I don’t feel a high, I just feel closer to normal. That’s heavily paraphrased and really oversimplified, but it helped me understand it a bit better when I was young and worried about taking all these medications.

I believe that's what the kids would call, "ratioed"

Garbage post, "redditor here!1!!" levels of cringe.
Are we seriously going to repost from facebook now?
- Given the name/purpose of this community, I would say absolutely. The content of the conversation fits, so who cares the platform on which it happened? Lord knows I don't want to spend my time looking at every post on Facebook to see stuff like this, that's why we have aggregators.
  
  Exactly. Except I’m a human, stealing content from Reddit to get this community started.
  
  You don't get it though, buddy here simply wants to complain about how their taste in content is superior instead of simply not following the community! Poor guy, leave them alone!
- Just like on the original Reddit sub, reposts from any and all social media are permitted. It’s basically the point of this community. All posts on here to date have been reposted from Reddit, and about a third of those originated on Facebook. But a big thank you @DominicHillsun for the first homegrown OC - I’m the creator and mod of this community, as well as OP.
  
  How very apropos of you, OP. It's DYKWIA inception. 🧑‍🍳🤌🏼🤣
- Garbage comment, "Le sophisticated reddit0r" levels of cringe.
  Are we seriously going to recomment from reddit now?

Because a psychiatrist would prescribe the same amount that you would get on the streets. Such genius, Vice. Much heterodox.

"coffee is also a stimulant, like meth" Its a blatant attempt to get the hysteria boiling by a news company. Gotta get those clicks.

The reply is dumb but the re-reply is cringe lol
- Agreed. If the credentials in their second comment were what qualified the statement in the first comment, why did they sign the first comment "licensed psychologist", a title that doesn't inherently qualify someone to speak to the pharmacological question.
  
  The second comment is summarizing what they researched for their PsyD degree and partially explaining why therapist and psychologist are not synonymous.
  
  And this being the internet, of course they’re qualified, why else would they rattle off a bunch of topics they’ve supposedly mastered? Surely no one on the internet would ever lie to win an argument!
  People wonder why everyone on the internet is so full of shit, but then they take something like this at face value.
  And the thing is, it’s actually somehow less cringe if they’re making the whole thing up. Healthy, well adjusted adults don’t argue with strangers on facebook, and they definitely don’t list random topics they’ve studied to “win” the argument. On reddit there used to be an allegory about pigeons and chess that applies here.
  But my money is still on this person having no psychology degree whatsoever, because…I’m not new to the freakin’ internet. Cheap, unprovable claims to authority should be dismissed as easily as they’re written.
  If you’re saying something factually verifiable or properly sourced then fine, but rattling off “credentials” to internet strangers is cringe af and always will be. I take it as an immediate sign that you’re not confident in your facts and are hoping to avoid or deflect scrutiny.

121 comments