Headlines

Yup,. the hypocrisy is so thick you can taste it, and it's bitter with a strong hint of propaganda. the world is lead by assholes, on all sides.
- the world is lead by assholes, on all sides.
  This is an objectively true statement. Of course the world is lead by assholes.
  We all know that power corrupts. Neuroscience has shown that getting power damages the brain's capacity for empathy.
  You just can't lead a nation without becoming capable of great evil.
  
  You just can’t lead a nation without becoming capable of great evil.
  Jimmy Carter seems like a decent person.

It's extremely frustrating to hold the apparently controversial opinion that killing civilians is, consistently, a bad thing.
- You're only worth moral consideration if those in power want you to be.
  Wars, racism, homophobia, etc. These are just the results of those who have the power to ignore those they deem not worthy, doing whatever they want.
  It ranges from current wars, to past wars, to the Holocaust, to 9/11, to eating animals, to Epstein, etc.
  Maybe one day we will realize that someones worth should not be assigned by others.
  We are all equal or we are all dead.
- The controversy is this. Do we REALLY want to vote for Trump who is going to take away our freedoms, dismantle democracy and probably won't do anything to stop the genocide in Gaza anyway? Or are we going to vote for the candidate that definitely won't stop the genocide in Gaza but will at least ensure we maintain a democracy? Its not a good choice either way but I have my own life to look out for and will vote accordingly.
  The greatest service Biden could do to this country (and also the world) is make it so that felons can't run for president and then drop out of the race.
  
  Let’s not forget that trump supported the move of Israel’s capital to goddamn Jerusalem
- So Hamas killing civilians is a bad thing too?
  Yes, obviously. Why do you ask? Since you asked, I may as well ask, is Israel killing civilians a bad thing?
  Gonna start calling out people showing support for Hamas at protests?
  Sure, if you see them, kick them to the curb. Do you agree that there's a difference between supporting Palestine and supporting Hamas?

Just off reading headlines..is "entering" and "bombing" the same thing now?
- Off headlines not.
  Off reality Al Shifa is far more destroyed than the Ukrainian hospital.
  
  Non-combatant body counts?
- What Israel did was far worse. They bombed the hospitals, laid siege, raided the hospitals, killed doctors, abducted doctors, tortured patients and staff, and dug mass graves.

i wonder which side this respectable publication is on 🤔

Considering that Netanyahu was having corruption charges levied against him before October 7th... well, from the Israelis I've talked to, the intelligence was there to prevent the attack, and the brass let it happen. War time leaders tend to hold on to power a lot easier. In addition to the gas deposits off the Gazan coast, and the whole beach front property development thing that Israeli corporations are advertising. It's terrible what has been happening in Gaza and the West Bank (obviously) BUUUT, I mean, they're surrounded by much larger countries that are hostile to them. WHY they are hostile, well, that is where cracking open a history book comes in.
- Netanyahu is just the latest in a long list of demons, the invasion of Palestine didn't start on October 7th.
- Terrible is understanding what have been done this will go as the crime of sententry
  
  I mean, it is the classic cycle of human hate right. I talked to a (gorgeous, I will add, sue me, I like pretty girls) Israeli girl for a few months after Oct 7th. Hearing her perspective of things was educating. If I was on a date and had someone at the table next to me get stabbed in the neck by a random passerby, I would be a bit jaded as well. Having regular alarms to hide from missile attacks etc. Obviously, genocide bad. The Palestinians have it far worse, and are being used as proxies by Iran because of the whole mini-cold war that has been going on in the middle east for a while. However, life is rarely black and white. Unless it's like serial killer/rapist/torturer/illuminati shit. Deprogramming generational hatred on an individual basis takes a great degree of patience and understanding of nuance. Calling all Israelis evil monsters is NOT how you fix the problem, my 2 cents.
  I will leave this song here as an example of the Israeli perspective, I thought it was pretty spicy:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUMl58i4m0w

when the victims are lighter skinned
- This is what it is and it’s ironic cause Palestinians aren’t even that dark.
  
  Sudan civil war what? too dark 4 me
- When the victims aren't strategic to US interests*
  
  While that may be partially true, The Guardian ironically has a good opinion piece of the exact quotes being said by news reporter about "European" children getting bombed from 2022. Sometimes it IS related to the colour of their eyes and skin, and dismissive comments like yours come across pretty ignorant.

I wonder how it would read if they quoted the Russian military in the headline on the right.
- The Russian story was "defective Ukrainian air defense missle hit hospital". But since that has now been debunked because of evidence of the missile being Russian. they'll also just say something about a terrorist base.
  Or actually, they will just still say it was a defective air defense missile. Looking at the amount of people here still repeating the lie about the military base it appears not to matter that it gets fully debunked. The drones will repeat anything they are told.

- I could've said it's more complex than that, but both conflicts couldn't have happened if invaders just haven't invade.
  
  The Arabs have started every single conflict with the Israelis. It is nothing like Russia and Ukraine.

Well, we have established that the West is racist and supremacist centuries ago, nothing has changed.

- Sure are
- Yeah they're different. Israel killed many times more civilians in a fraction of the time.
  
  The numbers are iffy, but yes, it's about 4x as many civilians killed in Gaza as Ukraine:
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Casualties
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
- The difference being the IDF lying about why they destroyed a hospital and Russia lying about whether they were the ones who destroyed a hospital?

We’re all in the Zone Of Interest now.

my favorite is that everybody is referring to the israel palestine thing as a genocide, but i have yet to see anybody piss and shit themselves over what russia is doing to ukraine.
Let alone what russia is doing to it's own domestic population. Take a guess on how putin is still popular after putting hundreds of thousands of people to death in a needless war.
- For one thing, the US sends huge amounts of money to Ukraine for defense against Russia, and huge amounts of money to Israel for "defense" against Palestine. I care way less what people "piss and shit themselves over" than where the material support goes.
  
  this isn't explicitly true, we spend money on ukraine because russia is illegally invading ukraine, but i'll give you that one, since most people know that by now.
  What we also know, is that russia holding military positions in ukraine, destabilizes the rest of the EU, because now the border states are much more concerned about active invasion. Which disrupts trade, and the global economy, it's generally a bad thing.
  What we know about israel in particular, is that israel is a massive force projector for the US in the middle east, the US is essentially doing their bidding through israel in that regard. If you think the entirety of the bidding that the US is doing is just bombing Palestinians, you probably need to go do some reading.
  Like don't get me wrong, i don't like it either, i'm not a huge fan, but it's kind of just the name of the game unfortunately, which btw we have the US retract slightly on it's stance in the matter, which is a good thing.
  quick edit: although to be clear, i was most talking about how people were being overly dramatic about the whole ordeal completely killing any care i had in it at all.
  
  Yeah but Trump would end support to Ukraine.
- Huh?? The West has been almost entirely united behind Ukraine. I mean it's the controversial stuff that gets clicks but there's plenty of hatred for Russia to go around. Hell there's graphic videos on Lemmy of Russian soldiers being blown to bits and no one bats an eye.

- So this piece doesn't source any evidence that it was used and ignores the literal fact that later investigations by Amnesty didn't find credible evidence of use as a military base and the massive Israeli misinformation campaign on that front: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_military_use_of_al-Shifa_hospital#:~:text=During%20the%20Israel%E2%80%93Hamas%20war,Hamas%20and%20hospital%20administrators%20denied.
  But yeah let's justify Israel bombing away access to medical care to people forced into a small, war torn area because fuck Palestinians I guess.
- This is highly contested and no credible evidence has been produced for these claims. Israeli propagandists have been hard at work conjuring up lies wholesale and it's shameful to repeat them without verification.
- Al Shifa was home to Hamas torture chambers for a decade at least.
  Your link gave one example a decade ago.

- https://apnews.com/article/shifa-hamas-israel-gaza-military-war-hospitals-1842f3cc81744526c72bff727882e956
  In justifying its first raid, Israel said that underneath the hospital lay a complex network of tunnels, a central command center for Hamas. Evidence produced from that raid— caches of weapons, a tunnel leading to small, rusty quarters that appeared out of use, and no scores of militants found — fell far short of the claim . Hagari said Monday that the intelligence had been wrong and that Israel had tipped off Hamas militants at Shifa by announcing its attack plans.
  “They left there because they knew we were coming,” he said. “And this time, we did something else.”
  By doubling back to Shifa in mid-March, he said, forces surprised militants who had regrouped inside.
  He said the military now believes militants operated mainly from the hospital wards themselves, not tunnels underneath.
  Apparently they weren't using those tunnels now.
  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-prison-doctor-accuse-torture-israel-hamas-war-rcna159710
  Also, the hospital chief has some things to say as well.
  
  Soook, not in tunnels but in hallways and offices in the hospital. Not much practical difference except not as well hidden as Israel believed.
- Which one can you provide any evidence? Or are you talking about israel claiming a water well was a tunnel network which has been proven to be a blatant lie?

- Source: trust the IDF bro
  Israel has killed far more health workers and razed far more hospitals/medical facilities than Russia has
- Yes, I was there too. I am hamas actually
- Got any evidence cowboy?

Corporate wants me to find the differences in the actions.... they're both the same thing -the office

Last I heard, Ukrainians weren't holding up in those hospitals and using them as launch sites for their bombs....
Once you turn a hospital into a launch site, it's no longer afforded the same protection. Might be wise to avoid doing that in the grand scheme of things.
- An overwhelming majority of news outlets, as well as humanitarian orgs like Amnesty International, and even the WHO, have come out and said they have seen no evidence that al-Shifa hospital was used for any military operations by Hamas. Even the IDF itself has barely tried to justify it. Israel bombed this hospital, killed civilians including newborns children, and so far have provided no reason to believe that it was even strategically beneficial for anything other than the continued mass deaths of innocent Palestinians.
- Last I heard, Ukrainians weren’t holding up in those hospitals and using them as launch sites for their bombs…
  RT says they were and the only people who might dispute it are terrorists (also according to Russia).
  Besides, who am I supposed to believe? An IDF endorsed stenographer or my Hamas-affiliated eyes?
  
  When you're unwilling to believe your own eyes with the videos and pictures that have been shared that are clearly GPS and time stamped showing what was found and where then there's nothing that's going to convince you of reality over your embedded ignorance.
- Last I heard
  Yeah you're gonna need to back that claim up. Russian propaganda doesn't count.
  
  It's wild that some people refuse to believe the pictures and videos of their own eyes. It's undeniable but it weapons caches have been found in various hospitals including al-shifa. It's undeniable that power feeding the underground tunnels was coming from a un facility.
  You can deny reality all you want, but that doesn't negate the facts.
- That red heifer ain’t gonna sacrifice itself.

- I'm sorry this is not the lie the IDF told to attack the hospital.
  Remember this?
  also interesting you still believe the Hamas missile lie from the IDF too. Never bothered to check for updates?

I don’t think Ukraine is known for hiding military assets in things like hospitals.
You can keep trying to make them the same but they aren’t.
- Neither is Hamas, nobody believes you anymore.
  israel, on the other hand, did plant rifles behind MRI machines, and laptops with plugs that aren’t even used in Gaza.
- You may be correct, but the loss of civilian life in Gaza is truly horrific.
  
  they're not correct; amnesty proved that nothing was hidden in that hospital and that both americans and isrealis were lying about it to their respective populaces.
  reminds me of weapons on mass destruction in iraq; they use congress, tv, radio, etc. to spread the lies and then nothing happens when it's proven that they were lying to us.

I am tired of these comparisions. The Ukraine war has a clear good and a clear bad side. The same cannot be said about the Israel/Palastine war. Both parties are equally shitty. There is just one side much more powerful so more capable to commit cruelties. The only clear good people here are the civillians suffering on both sides.
- Seems like both articles should be horrified about a bombed hospital but maybe that's just me.
  
  i would argue both articles should probably just be talking about how hospitals were bombed, rather than writing an entire diatribe on the emotional states of everyone involved.
  But that's just me, i like my reporting neutral.
  
  Sure but one article is a breaking news type of article and one is about a bad thing that has already happened and now they are merely entering the hospital.
  I dont know the specific of either event but is it possible that more people died in the Ukrainian hospital?
- A hospital full of civilians being bombed is bad regardless of the context. There's no point in media outlets spinning shit like this. They're just acting as propagandists for Israel by throwing softballs like this.
- The Ukraine war has a clear good and a clear bad side. The same cannot be said about the Israel/Palastine war.
  It's funny, because I've seen so many white nationalists assert the exact opposite.
  
  white nationalists assert
- I know you're getting down voted to hell but I agree. People are losing sight of just how shitty Hamas is. This is exactly what they wanted, they care even less about their own peoples lives, happy to use them as human shields. A hundred thousand martyrs. Fucking embarrassing to be human sometimes.
  
  No one is losing sight of that, they're correctly making the point that there is no justification for bombing a hospital full of patients and that the justification the IDF gave has been found to be false.
- It's the opposite. Israel/Palestine war has a clear evil side (Israel) and a clear victim (Palestine). Ukraine war is a complicated mess.
  
  That is a wild and backwards take!
  
  So the victims are the ones who openly call for the death of an entire group of people? Their founding Charter literally calls for the elimination of Jews.... and after they slaughtered the women and children in October they said they'll do it again. They're the victim to you? Interesting.
- Palestine is far more black and white than Ukraine. I'd recommend you read up on it.
  
  Okay, so Russia Invaded Ukraine. Russia is the Aggressor.
  The Hamas attacked Israel, so Israel exterminates Palestine and claims it wants to exterminate the Hamas. The Hamas have committed Warcrimes and hides the self behind Civilians and the IDF does a whole lot of warcrimes too. Both sides are shirt,, just the IDF has done a bit more shit than the Hamas. Theres no good side in this conflict. Both sides want to exterminate each other and sacrifice the Palestinian civilians for this.
  I don't know where you see a more black and white scheme in the middle east conflict than in the Ukraine war, but I'm willing to read your explanation.
  
  Nothing about middle east conflicts is close to black and white. I'd recommend you read up on it.
  
  far more black and white? What in the ever living fuck are you talking about?
  Ukraine was literally legally guaranteed that russia wouldn't invade them, after taking their nuclear weapons. Russia LITERALLY broke this agreement. How much more black and white can you get than quite literally going against what you've said?
  
  Care to explain it if it's so simple? You have no idea what your talking about..