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Ganesh Venugopal @lemmy.ml

Why do you still hate Windows?

I realize this is a Linux community, but I was wondering why you still hate Windows. I mean, I love Linux, but I will not argue that it's more convenient to the average person in most use cases to use Windows, I recently had to switch back to Windows and I realized how convenient it all was and how I was missing so many things because of my love for Linux. But at this point, Linux is a part of my personality and my self-image and I will not leave it, but I gotta be honest, it's pretty convenient being on Windows. So, why have you guys chosen to still stay on Linux? Some reasons I can appreciate include

  1. The terrible privacy policies of Microsoft. It sometimes makes you feel like your computer is not owned by you but lent to you by Big Tech.
  2. The community and the spirit of sharing
  3. The joy of "figuring it out" and customizing everything you want to the minutest details
  4. FREEDOM!!! sudo su Kinda ties into the previous points, but still one of the best selling points, the freedom to do whatever you want is liberating. You can run a server on it or you can create a script while knowing you have control over almost every FOSS app there is or just destroy your whole system with one command. Idk, feels good man!

These are the big ones, but one must realize you are sacrificing many things while not using windows too, productivity can be much greater there if you are a normie, it's really convenient! So yeah! Give me your reasons! Also, how many of you dual boot?

163 comments

  • I like being in control of my computer.

    Windows and Android have this attitude where they decide how you want to use your device and block customisation. And the fact that they feel entitled to be able to change how your device looks and feels without warning or permission is something that's deeply uncomfortable to me. There's also this feeling of not knowing what my device is actually doing, and how much of my data it is actually collecting.

    With Windows, there's also a lot of small papercuts that make it annoying to use (and that my Windows friends don't seem to understand):

    • Lack of middle click paste.
    • Lack of the ability to drag windows using "alt".
    • You can't turn off the window previews in the task bar.
    • You can't disconnect from a wired network connection from the connections list.
    • Sometimes the computer just restarts on its own for fun.
    • Finding settings is a pain because they keep adding new settings menus.
    • Whatever garbage the start menu is doing nowadays.
    • Installing software and drivers is a pain.
    • The attitude that you have to download (or buy!) third party software for core features that should be included in the OS.
    • It doesn't support my keyboard layout, and the editor for making new layouts is terrible.
    • The bitlocker password entry doesn't respect your keyboard layout. Or clear the entry when you get it wrong.
    • Windows licenses are a pain to manage.
    • Managing the bootloader just sucks.
    • The registry just kinda sucks compared to dconf and/or text config files.
    • Font rendering is ugly, imo.
    • I don't care about edge, fuck off with that shit.
    • I can't change the volume by using the scroll wheel.
    • Launching a pinned app on the task bar causes all the other pinned apps to shift around so I misclick.
    • Device letters are not stable if you add or remove devices.
    • It just resets settings sometimes, because why not?
    • It can't be installed to a partition that isn't the first partition on the disk. This is not mentioned anywhere, nor is the error useful.
    • It's just bad for developing on, due to lack of tooling.

    ... Whew I ranted for a while there, didn't I? Yeah, I dual boot Windows for the games that either don't run under protonwine or the devs want to add a rootkit to.

    • Thats a pretty impressive list

      • Lack of middle click paste.
      • Lack of the ability to drag windows using "alt".
      • I can't change the volume by using the scroll wheel.

      These feel like DE specific complaints rather than Windows complaints. I wish I could use windowkey to switch applications for example.

      Changing sliders with mouse wheel does sound cool, I want that.

  • Because every time I’m reminded the underlying OS exists it’s always something negative.

    On windows: Forced restarts and updates that take over 5x as long as my Linux (or FreeBSD build), ui that constantly undoes what I customized, ads and preinstalled malware essentially like candy crush even on builds from Microsoft directly, worse performance with a much higher number of crashes under load on my current box, and no auto login/name any simple customization without screwing around with registry editor to name just the simple things. More advanced problems include no hypervisor built in to the home version, everything is pay to unlock features my Linux install does for free, no zfs software raid for storage safekeeping, most fixes when I do have errors involve googleing cryptic hex codes and being told to run fsck/chdsk as the only solution for often times hours of searching before finally finding the actual answer - not to mention most other fixes being to download a library/binary of the sketchiest sounding website ever that i can't verify isn't a virus.

    On linux or even FreeBSD which took a bit to get installed to my liking i may have put work in up front but its like 3 hours at most of my time for 6+ years of stability and proper functioning to avoid all of the above plus no microsoft telemetry etc. I switched when i first tried Vista and even today every time i have to use Microsoft's horrific excuse for an OS it is heartburn inducing.

  • I swapped away from Windows about a year and a half ago. The last straw was them sticking ads in the OS. And from everything I've heard, they continue to boil the frog; they continue to add more and more telemetry and unasked for "features" and bloat the system more and more and more with every update. Even my own parents are growing tired of Windows; it's a clunky, poorly optimized operating system that's positively frustrating to use.

    I will concede that not everything that runs on Windows will run on Linux. It's true. But I severely disagree that Windows is "easier to use." Of course, when you grow up on Windows, Linux has a learning curve. It's different OS. But once I got past that? Nah, Linux is far easier and more intuitive in most cases.

    Installing programs? Open your software manager and click a button.

    Playing video games? Open Steam or Lutris and click a button. Occasionally you might need to tweak things, but you have to do the same on Windows sometimes, especially for older games!

    I could go on but those are the biggest two examples that come to mind immediately.

    As to another point you made, I personally gave up almost nothing. Destiny 2 and League of Legends don't work, but I quit league before fgsh added Vanguard and neither of these games want me. That isn't my fault, and it isn't a short coming in Linux's fault, it's the devs being assholes.

    In spite of this, I do acknowledge some people would have to give up more than me, and for some people that's too much, and that's valid! I hope one day they truly get a choice.

  • I find Windows significantly less convenient than Linux. It took a few years for my mindset to flip but there's just no going back. Whenever something requires me to use Windows, I reach for a Windows virtual machine. Whenever I've been forced to use a Windows or a Mac machine for work, I've reached for a Linux virtual machine.

  • It just.. lacks features? I couldn't use ZFS or Btrfs, FDE requires third-party software (veracrypt) and lots of other things that I see as standard system utilities (think ssh, git etc.) are not available on a fresh install. And then you're supposed to download and install .exe files from the internet? Since microsoft controls what goes in the windows store, that could provide the same experience as your distro's repositories. But again, most things you want aren't there, and you can't even trust the things that are there. For some reason, a billion dollar company cannot curate a software repository of the same quality as the ones maintained by unpaid volunteers in the Linux world.

    So yeah, I think it's just not there yet. Maybe in a few years windows will be a viable alternative for desktop systems.

    • FDE requires third-party software (veracrypt)

      There's bitlocker, I think it was added in 7 or Vista. What do you mean?
      But other than that, I would rather use VC too.

      standard system utilities (think ssh, git etc.) are not available on a fresh install

      Hmm, depends. It has a built in openssh client and server, but the "feature" (automatically installing package) is off by default. It can be enabled at install time with the use of the standard windows image modification tools (DISM I think?)

      And then you're supposed to download and install .exe files from the internet? Since microsoft controls what goes in the windows store

      I think it's better that Microsoft does not have that much control over software distribution.

      But again, most things you want aren't there, and you can't even trust the things that are there.

      Of course you can't, nobody can tell by looking at the store page if it was modified by anyone, including Microsoft.
      The amazon app store for android explicitely tells that they are adding tracking code to every uploaded app, and to make this possible they replace the digital signature of apps uploaded. Google with the play store does not tell anything like this afaik, but for a few years now it also basically compromised the digital signatures of developers, by requiring the private keys to be mandatorily handed in for continued app updates.
      I don't trust that these companies that already rely on mass surveillance as a revenue stream, they won't add tracking code to apps unauthorized by the devs. If not right now, it will happen in the future.

      For some reason, a billion dollar company cannot curate a software repository of the same quality as the ones maintained by unpaid volunteers in the Linux world.

      Besides quality, I think open source distro's repository and it's packagers are largely more trustable. They are not motivated financially to modify the packages in unwanted (by the user) ways, and they are transparent.

      So yeah, I think it's just not there yet. Maybe in a few years windows will be a viable alternative for desktop systems.

      I think they are drifting farther and farther away.
      It was an option. But the shitshow of 11.. thanks that's too much. I'm not installing that for anyone. And 10 is soon end of life...

  • Because windows is inconvenient for me.

    Nothing works as I expect it, terminal takes ages to open, everything lags like shit, annoying popups everywhere, every setting is hidden behind ten thousand menus, subpar packaging system, explorer crashes every so often, PATH is hard to access and modify, takes a PHD to install a raw compiler without visual studio, you can forget about shortcut system cus even with autohotkey it's a pain.

    (Talking about permissions) Why do I have to write names of users from the ground and then click button "check if it actually exists" in a fucking gui? Couldn't there be a drop down list?

    If you ever want to modify the windows iso image or make an automated script without using online services you're just done mate. There's nifty surprises like special software which name I so conveniently forgot (God bless) that can open the file image contained inside the iso image, but if that inner image has wrong format you have to spend time converting it. Then you'll see some fucking insane shit in front of you, where you need to drag objects from a drop down list into different categories that have random ass names and not at all simple to understand even after reading official documentation. Oh you think that's all? You can drop same objects into different categories and they will do different shit. I took TWO WEEKS WORTH OF CLASSES to work with that software and I ALREADY DONT REMEMBER JACK.

    Then there's utterly long startup times even on ssds, colemak dh mod basically doesn't exist... And that's all I could remember out the top of my head.

    The only redeeming quality I'd say, is having a very simple setup for Japanese and Chinese IME. On arch KDE it took me awhile to set up fcitx with mozc the first time around.

  • I hate windows 11, because it's bad. Installing drivers is annoying, removing the ads and de-bloating a PAID operating system is just ridiculous. It's also unstable, random crashes galore, uses a ton of system resources and sleep doesn't work. As you mentioned yourself it's also a privacy nightmare. But that's not all of my reasons for hating windows...

    • Horrible CLI experience, can't get any work done without needing to go through 15 different menus to find some arcane setting to adjust simple things like global variables. Powershell also has the habit of randomly forgetting that certain commands exist, I am aware it's probably me doing something wrong there, but I do not care enough to figure it out, to me it just doesn't work.
    • Horrendous laptop experience. 1:1 touch pad gestures? Smooth animations? A workflow that makes sense? Not on windows! And yk, sleep doesn't work.
    • WORSE gaming performance on AMD graphics cards. Yep, this has been the case ever since I switched to AMD a few years ago and despite all their driver updates, I still get a much better performance in games on linux through wine. This is just ignoring the fact that radeon software on windows is a piece of fcking garbage that likes randomly crashing and then uninstalling itself.
    • Virtualization is bad. No KVM = bad for me... It's just slower on windows and you can't do fun stuff like GPU passtrough.
    • I can't even fcking install windows 11 without doing ridicuous hacks to bypass the secure boot/TPM/other garbage.
    • No app store/normal package manager. Winget sucks... it just does. Yes, it's better than nothing, no, it's not good... Same goes for chocolatey. It's nice, but it's just not that good.

    Fundamentally, there are many reasons... A lot of which I've listed, to dislike windows. And I'm not a Linux elitist, my main work machine is a Mac, I just use what works best and windows just... doesn't. It's been enshittified beyond belief and even ignoring the enshittification, there are things that fundamentally prevent me from liking/using windows for anything more than a piracy machine... As that's the one thing that's easier on windows.

  • Please stay to the end because it's important, and it's going to be a horrible bait and switch but it's not INTENDED that way. I can't think of another way to present the difficult combination of interests that seem to be driving MS software lately.

    I actually quite like Windows 11, and I love Edge when they're doing their core functions. Windows 11 is reasonably solid and useful for normal use. Edge is faster than Chrome and has the best vertical tabs implementation on the planet. Much of the baseline software that Microsoft is putting out has never been better, and is often really good at doing the basic things software should do. I really do feel like the genuine technology people in Microsoft are trying, and often succeeding, to make good technology products.

    But... the bottom-feeder marketing drones and MBAs got their hands on them and started layering creepier and creepier nonsense over the top. Mandatory logins to glorified data collection engines. Monetization strategies masquerading as features. Overt advertisement. Heavy-handed promotion of Microsoft's own products. I finally stopped using Edge (on Linux!) when I discovered that just looking at the settings the wrong way would re-enable every intrusive setting imaginable and ditched Windows entirely when I saw the same things creeping into the OS (as well as a general disgust with privately-owned OSes in general). They are destroying trust.

    In the great irony of my life, because normally work PC Windows installs have been hot garbage, I have Win11 on a work laptop and it's actually really great to use since all of the intrusive stuff is turned off by our security team. I would still prefer linux or macos (in that order), but as a "forced to use it" option, it's not bad at all. Go back and read that again: it's a pleasant and easy to use OS if all the intrusive marketing functionality is turned off because it presents a security hazard.

    PS. Not sacrificing anything being predominantly linux-based and am in fact far, far more efficient on linux (and I am not a programmer or in any other technology role).

  • I... Don't? But I've used it since 3.11. It's incredibly usable software, when it works. Switched recently because even I have my limits - that win11 recall even made it as an idea at the table is enough to make me jump ship. The ads in win10 pushed me to the limit, but recall is insane unless they're literally gonna give away free hardware and software. I paid for that damn computer and bought a license - wtf. It's not Microsofts hardware to datamine or put ads on. Paid for things with ads in them that also keylog and screen scrape and datamine can fuck all the way off.

    Saw the netbsd video posted on lemmy recently and dude said he was offended at the lack autonomy he had over his own hardware in ms and I kind of get it now.

    • The ads in win10 pushed me to the limit

      Never seen them. But Microsoft does document how to disable everything you would like to.

      I don't just don't get why do the same people who removed a lot about Windows (not you) are unable to install Windows 10 Enterprise and read the manual BUT they are able to jump between 30 different Linux distros and spend 100x more time customizing their DE and dealing with Wine / virtualization crap. Ironic.

  • Lol Windows is slow garbage, doesnt run on half my families devices soon, and is full of adware and spyware.

  • As someone who routinely installs new Laptops for various reasons:

    Installing

    • Preinstalled Windows is unusable, due to preinstalled spyware
    • No torrents
    • No multiple versions
    • No real support for actually chaning the locale, what you download is what you get. Even if that means redownloading 5 GB for every language, even though the interesting parts are just a few language files, which every OS can also replace while running (Note: OSes, not spyware with a program loader strapped to it)
    • No live version
    • Unnecessarily complex/long installation (Locale settings being required two times, circumventing the M$ account with cmd, denying all spying stuff)
    • Installer does not have drivers for many things eg. some Touchpads, special storage setups etc.
    • Installing takes a long time overall
    • Removing bloat, with varying success (sometimes uninstalling Edge is one click, sometimes it requires powershell hacks) takes ages (my hand always hurts afterwards because removing one thing takes three clicks at different locations)
    • Installing stuff is extremely annoying, inconsistent and insecure (VLCPlus ...)
    • Everyone loves hunting down 10 different obscure drivers from various websites, each with unique installers, right?
    • Windows fucks itself up within a few days with a non-insignificant chance ... eg. by entering S-Mode (halfway) somehow

    Usage

    • It may be in part due to me being used to a tiling WM with dozens of workspaces, but even with KDE I have much better workflow - somehow, Windows' way to multitask is really strange to me, and I can only use it like a 70 year old with only 10% sight in one eye and 0% in the other: very slow and inefficiently
    • You can't integrate anything with anything, except if you have dozens of accounts of services, some even with costs, and only use everything exactly like daddy manufacturer wants you to
    • Literally no support. Windows fucks itself up in so many ways, and the only "reliable" fix is a reinstall
    • Even with the dumbed down nature of Windows, users are morons. I'd rather teach my grandparents (including my very loud grandfather and said nearly-blind grandmother) Linux from scratch (yes, also LFS) than teach them the "correct way" to use Windows
    • Even when knowing how to use Windows properly, with all tricks applied, it's less powerful than a pregnancy test running BASIC
    • Paying 250+$ to get served ads to pay even more, money and data, is obviously stupid

  • I don't hate Windows for work. On the clock, I am balls deep in their ecosystem and I can't say that it's not working. However, that's probably because I get it mostly set-up by IT!

    Casual reminder that on Windows, it's the norm to go fetch packages from the fucking internet using a web browser and give them root access to your system, including drivers...
    A lot of settings are still scattered as well, with stuff randomly hidden away, completely unconfigurable or named so it's not at all clear what it even does.

    For everyday stuff like browsing, I totally do not see why people would want to use Windows.

    If it wasn't for (some) ((multiplayer)) games and other Windows-only software, I wouldn't recommend this OS to anyone at this point.

  • I'm the kind of user that cares about function over form, so everything in Windows 11 just annoyed me. Mainly because it was just changes in design that required me to reorient and to learn to use again with no good reason.
    I still use Windows at work just because our whole dev stack is on Windows. And every new design change just gets in my way. An OS should enable me do the things that I need and want, it should move out of my way. Sure I've added some hacks to restore the functionality I was used to. But the fact that I need to fight the OS to bring back context menus annoys me to no end.

    Also, as a dev, I find many things easier done on Linux that Windows, mainly because it just has a better CLI support. It's not as bad now with Windows terminal, winget and other improvements (dotnet having a proper CLI interface), however I still mostly use git-bash for common stuff like searching the file system. Not to mention that for something like docker I basically just need WSL.

  • For me the straw that broke the camels back was the fucking updates. I got so tired of Windows forcing updates, and I never could get the registry edits to disable it to stick. Besides, you shouldn't have to EDIT THE REGISTRY to just turn off updates! But there's also stuff I'd really miss if I went back (I've been on Nobara for a year now) like the package management on Linux. I love that I can choose to update on MY terms, and that almost everything updates during the process. I have a few random jar apps for Switch hacking stuff, and an appimage for R2Modman, but besides that I don't have to worry about needing to download the latest version of shit all the time. AND, having most of what you need just available on a software store is so nice. Never mind that its so much safer to not have to download random .exe's from all over the internet. These days the only thing I actually struggle with is modding certain games. Like BG3 took me awhile, but then I found out there's a Linux mod manager called lampray and it works perfectly. Then there's also the fact you have to know how to do DLL overrides for things like bepinex or anything that adds some kind of DLL. But otherwise, it just works and infuriates me less than windoze

  • I don't hate Windows, but I find Linux a much more natural way to use my PC. I started with Linux in 1996 and have been daily driving different distros since 2010 on all my PCs and servers. 

    Over the years, I’ve come to appreciate how flexible and customizable Linux is. The open-source community is always ready to help, making the experience even better. For personal projects or managing servers, Linux is efficient and reliable, and I’ve grown to depend on it.

    On the other hand, I've had to use Windows at various jobs and never found it enjoyable. The constant updates, 'bloatware', and lack of transparency can be frustrating. 

    While Windows is user-friendly and compatible with many programs, it often feels less intuitive and more restrictive compared to the freedom I have with Linux. 

    Each time I switch back to Windows, I’m reminded why I prefer Linux for both personal and professional use.

  • Windows has basically become malware. It does a fuck ton of tracking, and all of its features are about appeasing shareholders over users.

    If we want to get technical: I loathe it because even in the year 2024, it’s the only operating system I’ve witnessed that will absolutely grind to a halt when a third party application stops responding or crashes. There is no valid fucking reason why the parent system should be halted by an application that crashes.

    Also, ads in the start panel. Absolutely not, Microsoft. No way in hell am I allowing that to live on a computer I own. Yes, I’m aware third party apps will address that but it shouldn’t be a thing to begin with.

    Oh yeah, and it decided to automatically update itself to the latest version on my ASUS ROG laptop while the thing was closed and not in use. So upon booting it up and seeing ads in the UI, I wiped the system clean and installed Nobara. Bye bye. 👋

163 comments