Should Democrats stay the course or replace Biden? | Robert Reich
Should Democrats stay the course or replace Biden? | Robert Reich
www.theguardian.com
Should Democrats stay the course or replace Biden? | Robert Reich
137 comments
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how we get shitty choices
people bend over to take it without even asking for their hair to be pulled or some lube or foreplay and beg for more while their ass gapes and bleeds
neither Trump nor Biden have any business in this race and it goes to show that US voting is nothing more than bread and circuses
when has any actual progress happened?
women's right's, worker's rights including living wages, healthcare, environmental policies, police reform, tax reform, education reform
none of this happened the whole of Biden term in office nor in Obama's or any democrat before that so why would they do anything different now
if all people care about are letters and colors why even have an election we can all just go back to kindergarten while the country burns
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Maybe get familiar with reality before you become certain you understand it. I'm not seeing any connection to reality in this comment. I'm seeing someone who decided they know everything but actually knows nothing
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How do you so consistently have the dumbest takes?
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It's always fascinating to witness, in an age of easily accessible information, not a person who parrots cruel words or malicious ideas, but rather someone who is so wholly and completely ignorant you'd expect them to tell you a story about how they used to live under a rock before some dudes in white coats thawed them from an ice slab.
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For one, Biden would have to willingly give up the nomination in order to release delegates already pledged to him.
Factually not true...
The DNC can rewrite the rules before the convention and nominate anyone they want.
As their lawyers have told judges, they're a private organization that can name anyone as the candidate. That was their defense for accusations that they already rig primaries.
A second problem is the public doesn’t know any other Democrat nearly as well as they know Biden, and it would be difficult to introduce someone to the public at this late date without them being defined by Donald Trump, the Republicans and Fox News in the worst possible ways.
Literally anyone that becomes the Dem nominee will have nationwide name recognition in 24 hours.
The most common reason for voting Biden is "to stop trump" so any replacement shares the most important quality Dem voters want that Biden actually meets.
Like, sure, this would have been so much easier if we had an actual primary and the people closest to Biden hadn't spent four years hiding him and lying about his mental capabilities. But they didn't. They kept repeating it was too late for anyone except Biden.
They're still saying it, but it's still not true.
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Good points. However, I would argue that the DNC would absolutely fuck up picking a new nominee. They would pick some “centrist” unlikeable democrat that would try to appeal to a moderate middle that just doesn’t exist. They would run a flaccid campaign and manage to piss off everybody trying to appeal to everybody. Republicans would absolutely capitalize on the chaos.
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In before they nominate fucking Hillary... again. It would be one thing to claim name recognition if people actually liked Biden, but nobody fucking likes Biden. People stomach Biden because the alternative is so much worse. This is why we so desperately need some kind of proportional voting system, literally any kind. The public needs a way of telling the parties "here's how we feel about these issues" without it being a binary choice between bad and even worse.
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Right
Biden appointed Jamie Harrison, it's very very unlikely that Jamie Harrison nominates anyone else. And if he does, it will be another moderate that names Jamie Harrison head of the DNC again.
Because the people running the DNC care more about personal political power than stopping trump.
Just like the problem with republicans isn't just trump, it's the people behind the scenes that also need addressed.
The problem with the DNC isn't just Biden, it's the people Biden put in charge of the DNC.
The party can't survive without the voters, we're the important part.
If the DNC refuses to acknowledge that, it won't be the first time voters left a party behind to die without them.
At a certain point the corruption is bad enough we need to start over. It won't be easy, but at a certain point it's the only option.
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Okay but... worse than Biden is already doing?
At this point is there anyone, anyone at all, who isn't merely voting for "not Trump" on the "left"?
Conversely, there are a few on the right who actively like Trump.
And there may be a handful of people - in key spots though - who may vote for a younger candidate?
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Thats good for business!
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They had a primary in 2020.
Biden won.
When was the last time there were primaries for a party with an incumbent president?
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The DNC can rewrite the rules before the convention and nominate anyone they want.
The DNC does not control the Biden/Harris 2024 campaign org, the Biden/Harris ground ops teams including 30 Biden/Harris campaign offices in Michigan alone, the Biden/Harris war chest containing over $100 million, or the Biden/Harris Super PACS.
Biden/Harris can take their ball and go home. And that's why the DNC won't replace Biden unless he willingly steps down.
any replacement shares the most important quality Dem voters want that Biden actually meets.
Apart from money and a functioning campaign organization. But who needs that if you're young, right?
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Your post is not true dude. They cannot rewrite the rules like that. Any changes they make would not take effect until the next election.
Listen. Biden is not going to step out. Anyone saying that this is a likely scenario is flat out delusional and has no idea what they are talking about, or they are a Trump supporter trying to sew chaos.
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Yeah. Just ask the Parliamentarian. /s
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The DNC can rewrite the rules before the convention and nominate anyone they want.
The DNC is an organization stacked with Joe Biden loyalists. And that's before discussing the fucked vibes of an 11th hour rules rewrite on the eve of what was supposed to be a lay-up nomination. Weeks of people arguing over who gets handed the Prez nod without a single primary vote cast in their name would be an absolute disaster.
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Yes, the DNC can change the rules whenever they want. But when your party is supposed to be putting a priority on Protecting Democracy, it's a bad look to then say "Yeah, we held a bunch of uncontested elections which we are now ignoring the result of".
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You're missing the context...
They've been saying they don't need to abide by the will of the voters because they're a private party.
And they're right
So when they say they can't use their power to give voters want they want because they're impartial...
It's obviously bullshit.
They're going to do what they want
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I am registered as an independent. I would like to vote third party eventually, but this is not the time and I think switching the candidate will backfire. We are playing with fire here. When it comes to voting between keeping a democracy or putting ourselves into a dictatorship, I'm voting for democracy. The people who are "protesting" by not voting or by voting third party this term are advocating for a Trump win. It's an attempt to divide the party in the same way that they did when Hillary was running. If Trump wins, democracy dies and genocide will be encouraged. Don't forget, he supported wiping out Gaza and encourages violence against other races, religions, political views, and LGBTQ+ people. He'll wipe out democracy and everything we've worked for over hundreds of years. All the protections put in place against poisoning the planet will be gone and climate change policies wiped out. This man plans to do so much damage.
I'll be honest. I'm scared of a loss here. I'm trans and with the amount of vitriol Trump and his followers spew, I feel like if I don't vote this way, I'm getting put in a dangerous situation, as are all LGBTQ+ people and many others. Please don't fuck around here. Don't make this about your pride. There is too much at risk here. Vote Biden and keep voting in mid-terms as well. We don't stand a chance otherwise.
Protesters, if you really want to make a change, run for congress. The only way to make real change is to put more decent critical thinking people in congress.
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Lemmy's IQ is probably above average. We're all going to vote for the NotTrump party, because the alternative is so much worse. It's the rest of the country who, honestly speaking, aren't going to bother.
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There’s a fuck ton of clowns here that are not voting.
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Some in this thread think that ‘chaos’ would emerge if the party replaced Biden and that would hurt the party’s chance of defeating trump. You are correct that there would be a media frenzy, and weeks of exhaustive, drama chasing coverage. It would absolutely dominate the media narrative, and be pounded into the entire voting population’s psyche. You know what else? That would be a wonderful, wonderful thing. It would totally disarm trump’s ability to drive the media narrative for much of the rest of the election. Whatever deficit that exists of national awareness for the new candidate would be erased very quickly. That candidate would be gifted months of desperate, free, media coverage. It’s actually a great strategy. That being the case, I’m sure the DNC and the party elders will never attempt something so obviously effective since they are terrible at politics and their cowardly approaches to both campaigns and governing are ultimately the reason our democracy is in such an existential crisis to begin with.
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The thing that makes folks pull their hair out is that we've known Biden has been sundowning for years. But in the run up to the 2024 primaries, we got this endless bullshit gaslighting of "Actually I think he's at the top of his game, never better!" articles coming out of the Dem establishment and Dem-friendly media.
So he ran virtually uncontested. And then he spent three months doing photo-ops with Dark Brandon laser eyes, trying to get people pumped up for November. And then he explicitly demanded a debate with Trump before the conventions were even held. And then this shit happened.
Now there's no normal democratic mechanism to pick a replacement candidate. So we're either stuck with Biden or we get some smoke-filled room full of superdelegates and mega-donors to make the decision. And that's what will fuck up the Dems' chances in November. You're talking about putting a guy on the ballot who never even went through the primary. Someone whose sole qualification was Biggest Insider Suck-Up. Someone who will have to square off against a legitimately popular candidate in a year when "Democracy is on the line!" is a thing the Democrats are asserting.
It’s actually a great strategy.
Its a fucked strategy, because the easiest line of attack on this new person is "Who the fuck is this asshole and why didn't they compete in a primary back in January?"
I’m sure the DNC and the party elders will never attempt something so obviously effective since they are terrible at politics
Holding a coronation rather than a primary was the DNC's big mistake. Now its too late. There are no savvy brilliant moves left to play. You're stuck with this lame duck through November.
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Regardless of whether we stay with Biden or someone new is chosen (God, what a shitshow that will be - though depending on the discussions behind the scenes, it may be the best course)...
Vote Dem on the presidential ticket this November. Biden or his replacement. Doesn't matter.
You've got a guy who tried the first autocoup in US history on the ballot, and a good 48% of the electorate who wants him back in. Not even getting into the myriad other problems.
Don't play fucking games here.
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The pod save America group had a mini debate about the issue.
Two key things: A new candidate allows Dems to sidestep the Gaza issue A new candidate means the age issue vanishes.As to 'its just a bad debate' - it is the worst presidential debate in modern history. That's a tough thing to climb out from.
Imo, I hope one of the candidates die from natural causes before the conventions and sidestep this craziness altogether.
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Absolute best case scenario, Biden dies of natural causes and Trump rots in jail. Only concerning thing in that scenario is that I'm not convinced Trump being in jail is enough to stop the morons from voting for him.
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No, best case is Biden kicks it and Trump has a massive stroke on stage at a rally, that leaves half his face dropping and him unable to speak. Anything short of him being completely mentally disabled and disqualified from the ballot isn't enough. Prison will never stop his run even if he's sentenced.
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I'm not sure donnie dying just before the election would be enough. Chances are if he gets the hamburger from heaven they find a way to have junior serve out donnie's term or something...
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And it's not just a single debate, it's a thing people will recognize from their own elderly relatives' declines. They'll be sharp as a tack at some times and in some situations and in others they'll be confused and incoherent. There's no reason to believe this is a one-off incident that won't reoccur publicly during the next 4 months. We've already been seeing some questionable senior moments that have been brushed aside as being out of context or just some simple mistake unrelated to age. Who really believes those narratives after seeing the debate?
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As to ‘its just a bad debate’ - it is the worst presidential debate in modern history. That’s a tough thing to climb out from.
Not to mention, there's only 2 debates. Best Biden can do now is 1-1.
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You're actually saying with a straight face that this was worse than the debate in 2020 where trump interrupted every single sentence? That's fucking rich to me. That was some of the most embarrassing public moments America has endured.
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I just finished up listening to that episode. Actually far less "light" than that show typically is, and I really quite enjoyed that debate.
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Idk. He seemed fine as usual the day after at his rally. I don't know what the hell that was on debate night. Someone idiot gave him NyQuil because of a cold or something??
Anyway, no, I don't think it's a good idea to replace him unless it's someone like Gavin Newsome who has no problem being aggressive against the Orange Mussolini.
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A second problem is the public doesn’t know any other Democrat nearly as well as they know Biden, and it would be difficult to introduce someone to the public at this late date without them being defined by Donald Trump, the Republicans and Fox News in the worst possible ways.
The only people I can think of as possible nominees are Kamala Harris, Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Wes Moore, Gavin Newsom and (my personal favorite) Sherrod Brown.
. . . What? Of those names I recognize I’m pretty sure the faded lettuce of Liz Truss has more immediate electability. And Whitmer is right out. As is (don’t get me started) Harris.
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Harris is the most viable option, but she's also less charismatic than Biden, and is a "Monkey's Paw" style answer to those on the left calling for a non-Biden candidate.
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Yeah, she doesn't seem any more likable than Hillary (to hear some of the pundits), but that probably just comes down to misogyny, and piled on top of that - racism.
If they are going to bother to replace Biden, I hope they go with Newsom. Not much of a lefty, but if the alternative is fascism...
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Gavin Newsom is not as left as I'd like, but I think someone like him, just by virtue of being telegenic and several decades younger than both donnie and Biden, he'd tear donnie a new one at the polls I would think. I mean, if we are talking about winning elections here.
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Why is Whitmer right out? I'm in Michigan, so I may not have a good perspective on what the rest of the US thinks of her.
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I appreciate her progressive takes, I just don’t think she has a chance in a national presidential run.
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Fuck no they should not. He is the most electable Dem as of today.
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You realize how sad that statement is, right?
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I think we're all well aware that this is far from an ideal situation.
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It’s also not true. It’s just a talking point / lie they keep shouting again and again
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If you dont count Bernie, prolly
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The question anyone suggesting replacing Biden needs to answer is: Who?
Pretty much the entire electorate needs to know who the person is. They need to be somewhat popular. They need no real scandals.
That's just the bare minimum to complete with Biden. Then you have to answer: can they be popular enough, or overcome Biden's weaknesses enough to overcome incumbency bias?
That's not easy to answer but if the answer isn't a resounding Yes, then replacing him is a mistake.
And the candidate has to be popular enough that Biden is willing to stand down and support them. Because he has pledged delegates and several primaries already.
Overall I think this would be a mistake. There just aren't any good alternatives. And one bad debate isn't a scandal. This is letting the Fox News machine dictate how we think about Biden. Which is always a mistake.
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Michelle Obama.
Kinda joking. Kinda not. Seems to be universally beloved, and has direct knowledge of the office and job.
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Seems to be universally beloved,
Not outside of deeply Democratic circles. And as much as I wish we could rely solely on right-thinking Democrats, we need a majority of voters.
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Agreed. Same for AOC for me. But this country is on the verge of electing Trump again. A woman of color had zero chance, unfortunately. :(
At least not without a longer public term of popularity.
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Preemptive: take what I'm saying with a heavy grain of salt, obviously and as always.
The true liberals will vote Dem no matter what - Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, hell this group would vote for Pete Davidson at this point!
The true conservatives... same, mostly. Unless the liberals advanced someone like Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney, who may be able to chip into that? (This is when we finally stop pretending that liberals have any options in this race, midway between neoliberalism and outright fascism.) Bc just like Dem != liberal, but differently, Repub != Trump-er.
There are probably like 5-100 people in the middle somewhere, but bc they live in swing states somehow determine the course of the entire nation. Would this be a time to be risky and advance AOC - as a young, passionate, genuine person, since the votes of neither liberals nor conservatives are likely to be affected either way? Except the old money probably worries too much that they could not control her, whereas both Trump and Biden have been vetted in this regard.
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The entire Democratic Party is sleeping on Andy Beshear. He checks all the boxes and then some. Young, smart, progressive, popular in a deep red state, etc.
He should at least be considered for VP.
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Party is sleeping on Andy Beshear Who the hell is that?
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Oh yeah! He would be an excellent choice (if not this cycle, maybe in the future).
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
Sadly, Biden’s stiff, halting, withered delivery, coupled with his slack-jawed expression and frozen stare when not trying to form sentences, made him seem not just old but on the decline.
I have a hard time seeing how this could happen, unless Jill Biden, along with others of his closest and most trusted advisors, and Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries, all teamed up and told him he must exit the race.
The only people I can think of as possible nominees are Kamala Harris, Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, Wes Moore, Gavin Newsom and (my personal favorite) Sherrod Brown.
Yet, if it’s not Biden, a failure to nominate Harris might upset lots of Black people, women and younger voters.
All of the national, state and local party machinery, advertising, and internet capacity now designed to get out the vote for Biden would have to be totally redesigned.
But he can also reveal something else, as he did at the debate – a man who in many respects seems older than 81 years, who has trouble walking and speaking, and who, at least in those times and moments, doesn’t seem to stand much chance of being re-elected president of the United States – even when his opponent is a twice-impeached convicted felon, pathological liar and dangerous sociopath.
The original article contains 705 words, the summary contains 218 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
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"Democrats" can't replace Biden. The only person who can replace the sitting President is the sitting President.
That being said, many people need to have that conversation with him, notably Obama, and tell him it's time to step aside for the good of the country.
See:
Diane Feinstein
Ruth Bader Ginsburg-
They’re talking about as the nominee.
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And we see how well they went...
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