News @lemmy.world girlfreddy @lemmy.ca 8mo ago

‘The Movement to Convince Biden to Not Run Is Real’

One House Democrat said he spoke for others in the wake of the president’s stunningly feeble debate performance on Thursday: “The movement to convince Biden to not run is real.”

The House member, an outspoken defender of the president, said that House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer should consider “a combined effort” to nudge President Joe Biden out of the race.

Crestfallen by the president’s weak voice, pallid appearance and meandering answers, numerous Democratic officials said Biden’s bet on an early debate to rebut unceasing questions about his age had not only backfired but done damage that may prove irreversible. The president had, in the first 30 minutes of the debate, fully affirmed doubts about his fitness.

A second House Democrat said “reflection is needed” from Biden about the way ahead and indicated the private text threads among lawmakers were even more dire, with some saying outright that the president needed to drop out of the race.

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Bidens about to go down as one of the worst Democrats in the last century because of his hubris if he doesn't. His decent domestic agenda will be overshadowed by him ushering in another trump presidency by ignoring all the signs for him to drop out. He didn't early last year when polls repeatedly showed that people thought he was too old. He didn't when unnamed democrat was leading him by 10 points. He didn't when his Gaza policy alienated large chunks of his base. If he doesn't in the next couple weeks when there will probably be polls coming out showing majority support for him stepping down then he's gone full head in the sand.

It's like RBG all over again, if these people could just get it through there heads to quit while there ahead they could preserve a decent legacy, instead of tarnishing it by leading the way to a regressive order that overturns everything they've done.
- Dont worry the DNC will find a way to blame Bernie for it
  
  And lemmings and redditors will blame progressives for it.
- quit while ~~there~~ they're ahead
  
  if these people could just get it through ~~there~~ their heads to quit while ~~there~~ they're ahead
  
  Fuck me that's just fucking laziness innit?
- It’s like RBG all over again, if these people could just get it through there heads to quit while there ahead they could preserve a decent legacy, instead of tarnishing it by leading the way to a regressive order that overturns everything they’ve done.
  
  This is one of the core problems of the Democrats: hubris. When Obama had a majority in the House and Senate, he could have easily pushed through a Supreme Court appointee to replace RBG. But she wouldn't go. Because in her mind, there was no one qualified to fill her shoes. She was convinced that she was the GOAT and that to voluntarily step down when it was safe to do so would be an insult. This is coupled with the fact that Democrats were absolutely, completely certain that they would win every election for the presidency after Obama without trying and that the "coalition of the ascendant" would easily put Hillary into the White House, and then she could be the first female president in US history and have an easy PR win by replacing an aging female supreme court justice.
  
  I'm willing to bet we have the the same problem here, but in one person: Biden probably thinks the Democrats could never field anyone for president better than him and that his victory is a lock without any real effort to campaign for it again.
  
  Fun fact: the last time anything like this happened it was with Grover Cleveland. Cleveland was the 22nd president of the United States who lost his re-election bid the first time around, and then got re-elected to be the 24th president of the United States. We are officially in the second Gilded Age.
- But we're already past the primary period... Are we suggesting having a quick primary anyway? Who should we put in his place? I haven't heard a single suggestion for who else to elect. Are we saying Harris should step in? Who should she run with?
  
  Newsom; Whitmer; Pritzker; Buttigieg; Shapiro; Khanna; Klobuchar; Walz; Booker.
  
  I even saw someone mention Wes Moore and I was reminded that he's a pretty good moderate governor of Maryland now instead of "only" a West Point graduate and author.
- It's too late for this kind of thinking. We can't change horses mid stream
  
  If your horse is on death's door. And you're crossing a stream. You'd better be prepared to swim.
  
  I disagree. I actually think you'd see a boost.
  
  Acknowledging age concerns of the electorate = good.
  
  Running someone fresh that appeals to this American Idol-esque popularity contest = good.
  
  Running someone Republicans don't have their talking-points fleshed out on = good.
  
  I thought that, but after last night, I wouldn't let Biden cook in my kitchen without supervision.
  
  Biden will lose against Trump. Changing candidates this late isn't ideal but it's better than guaranteed failure, and it's better than after the convention if Biden deteroriates from where he's currently at.
  
  You have to, if your horse literally can't make it across. It may not go well, but you have no choice.
  
  Don't look up!
  
  Okay enjoy drowning I guess.
  
  We can change horses if there's overwhelming pressure to do it and it's exceptionally well planned.
  
  What we absolutely can't do is nominate someone else against Biden's wishes and still have him on the ballot as an independent... that's how you get folks like Woodrow Wilson.
  
  I, personally, think it's doubtful that much pressure will materialize, but I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised.
  
  It's not too late now, but it's absolutely too late in October when Biden needs to appear multiple times per day and across about 5 states. If he can't do that, then he should step down now.
  
  I see the down votes, but I took this as a Wag the Dog reference. They're pointing out just how terrible an idea it is for Biden and the democrats to keep trying to sleepwalk through this election while Trump and the republicans pull out all the rhetorical stops.
  
  Stay the course
We need ranked choice voting, and this 2 party system is complete bullshit and needs to go. Obviously, neither will happen, but it should.
- Just changing the voting system by itself won't get rid of the two party system, we also need proportional representation. I much prefer Approval Voting and Sequential Proportional Approval Voting because the results are as good, if not better than RCV, they're easier for the individual to understand, and it's impossible to submit an invalid ballot using either method. Plus RCV doesn't actually change the winner the vast majority of the time. Fargo and St. Louis both use approval voting and folks there appreciate being able to vote for everyone they like and know that their full ballot will always be counted.
  
  Just changing the voting system by itself won't get rid of the two party system
  
  Not immediately, but it is a necessary condition. A third party really can't exist without ranked choice voting. If allows for a third party candidate to run without pissing everybody off.
  
  Sounds nice and fair. Also won't ever happen. Our options will always be giant douche or turd sandwich.
  
  We're not trying to force a change in winners though. The elections below president are far more dynamic and the people elected usually win for a reason beyond FPTP.
  
  But also, any kind of proportional representation requires a constitutional amendment. RCV can be installed with a state legislature making a 2 sentence bill.
  
  RCV will end the two party system. France uses runoff and they have more than two parties
  
  That said, I'm partial to the systems in Sweden and Germany, plenty of options to choose from.
- Funny how people elected under the two party system aren't super motivated to change it.
  
  This is why it has to come from the bottom up. All of the people saying "im sitting out of this election" or "i'm voting third party" are just acting in vain. It's all vanity as they want to pretend they are doing something while not actually doing anything. If you want this system to change, you have to go out in local elections and push for people who will change it to ranked/star voting, and then have that move up. Then you have people who have won under those conditions voting for it, which makes it a ton more likely.
- Okay. Go convince the Republicans who control over half the states to switched to rank choice voting.
  
  I think we'll first have to convince the Democratic leadership since they're about as equally interested in changing things. Both parties want to maintain the status quo because it keeps them both in power.
This is how Bernie can still win! /s

In the off chance they do replace him, they're going to force the worst possible candidate on us (Kamala?). Because what else are you going to do, let the bad guy win?
- It would be newsom
  
  Newsome would have to resign as Governor and I'm not sure he wants to do that for a long shot presidential campaign.
  
  Newsome polls very poorly against Trump and he also isn't very popular in his home state as Governor.
  
  Not worth the risk to lose his governorship for a shot in the dark. I don't know why the Democrat Party hasn't been building alternatives for the last 4 years. Hell, I only recall seeing Harris when she was yelling at poor immigrants to stay away. They failed this country.
  
  Jesus fuck no. He's basically Hillary 2.0
  
  It feels like he's inevitable at this point. 🙁
- Why would Kamala be the worst candidate?
  
  A bland and unprincipled candidate whose positions shift based on polling numbers. Not to mention her prosecutorial background and close proximity to SF corruption scandals makes her an easy target.
  
  She's not worse than Biden but not great. He should have chosen Stacey Abrams.
  
  Everyone hates her for very good reasons.
  
  There is a reason California didn't vote for her.
  
  Running Kamala would be making the same mistake they made back in 2016. She is polarizing, and extremely unlikeable. Anyone that worked with her or her department when she was in law in CA has nothing but bad things to say about her.
  
  Running Kamala would be giving Trump a second term.
Really cool feeling when your state has primaries long after super Tuesday and the candidates were already mathematically locked in before you get a say. I swear I only get a chance to influence presidential primaries half the time or so. It's strange to watch a 'democracy' keep moving when sometimes your voice doesn't count because of where you're from.
- We need the primaries to all be on the same day. This isn't the early 1900's anymore. States that are getting left behind need to organize to just join super tuesday. The party would not survive disallowing that many delegates.
- when sometimes your voice doesn't count
  
  Humans worship the powerful, not the mundane.
  
  Then it's simply not a democracy, yet I still often hear politicians, media pundits, and normal people claim it's the best one. Where does the truth lie?
Democrats have nobody to blame but themselves. They stayed mum for three and half years and now they’re reaping the whirlwind.

☝️
- Stayed mum? They actively fought against allowing anyone to hold primaries.
  
  They did? That's weird I remember voting in them just like I do every 4 years.
  
  That's the point - they closed ranks and kept riding the Biden train whilst quietly hoping that no one would notice it was in danger of coming off the rails.
  
  https://theintercept.com/2024/06/28/biden-debate-dnc/
  
  But we did hold primaries and Biden won in a landslide
- He has never sounded like that before and he has the record to show that he can do the job. Republicans tried to say he was on drugs because they heard him actually speak at the State of the Union.
  
  There was no reason to expect him to sound like he did. If they do the second debate, I hope he doesn't try to recall every single statistic and just stick to the big points. But Trump might just not debate like he did in the primaries. In fact, it would be stupid to give Biden a chance to recoup.
  
  Biden has been conspicuously avoiding speaking at unscripted public encounters for quite a while now, though, and reading from an autocue at SotU is a far cry from having to react on the fly and put together coherent arguments in response to moderator questions and Trump's lies during a debate. I have the feeling Biden's staff knew full well that the debate was going to be rough going into it.
Shout out to the neoliberal dipshits who thought we needed another right-of-center incrementalist to beat Trump.

That one really fucking worked out...
- I fully confronted a person that claims Biden was the best shot against trump in 2020. I pointed out how he was not given that we are here now.
  
  They still think that this is the best case scenario… like would they ever admit they were wrong?
  
  Okay, I'll bite. Who has a better chance?
"reflection is needed"

I hate being pessimistic, but they're gonna drag out "reflecting" for so long that they will lose the election.

if our elected officials are actually serious, they better act quickly on this because yesterday was extremely embarrassing. time will tell.
Biden's big problem in the debate was that, for a few moments, he mumbled a confused answer that sounded like Donald Trump.
- It was a no-win situation. The DNC gave in - once again - to their republican-lite mindset of ‘capturing undecided voters’ and agreed to get socked in the face , twice, for absolutely no gain and everything to lose.
  
  DNC consultants have always been morons, but now they’re morons-from-the-90s who still don’t understand what’s changed.
  
  Having a presidential election without debates would have been a big step back and loss for American democracy.
  
  We shouldn't champion erosion of democratic institutions when it helps our side of the ticket.
  
  And generally, if eroding democratic institutions helps your ticket, it's a red flag about your ticket.
  
  Seriously, they are so far behind their conservative counterparts is not even funny. They need to hire better PR specialists, and marketing teams.
- That's a pretty fatal mistake when your average person is only gonna watch a 10 second clip of the debate.
  
  That's it for me. I'm not voting for anyone who sounds confused for 10 seconds. Unless maybe they ran against someone who sounds confused for 10 years, but only in that circumstance.
- The problem is that there was no live fact checking. Wtf can you do against a constant Gish Gallop of blatant lies? Even if they drugged him, I'm not sure what he could've done with that debate format.
- He does this shit consistently and has been for a couple years. It wasn't one fucking answer in the debate. Christ. We are so fucked.
Remember when a huge coalition of people wanted RBG to retire? And then she didn't, and those people took it as courage or some such other virtue?
- Fucking hate when you get "too old" out of people for one side but not the other.
  
  All these fossils should have been sent to the farm years ago.
  
  Max age for starting a term should be 70. In most places you can't be in control of a car without regular tests when you reach that age, yet you can be in control of the largest nuclear arsenal on Earth if you can still tell the difference between a cow and a horse.
- I only remember people being so pissed that she didn’t, they celebrated when she died. I don’t remember anyone who wanted her to step down calling it ‘courageous’ when she didn’t.
- There's a herd mentality that often overrides practical thinking, along with the desire not to offend.
  
  I think for RBG she had worked so hard to get there as a woman, and she probably felt like men don't retire from the role just to please political concerns so why should she? Could she see the mess the country is in, she would have retired.
  
  Her lack of oversight is one of the only things many of us will ever remember her for. She set all women back 50 years by not stepping down. That's part of her legacy now, and it always will be.
  
  Her decision is a lesson for all those who will listen. We need to stop gambling with the future of our country. The best decision for everyone always needs to be put forward, and even the best people need to step down, if needed, to preserve and secure progress.
Isn't it too late to get a new democrat as candidate anyway, right? I mean you need to register in all states before a deadline no?
- There, a candidate must win support from the majority of "delegates" - party officials who formally choose the nominee. Delegates are assigned to candidates proportionally based on the results of each state's primary election. This year, Mr Biden won almost 99% of the nearly 4,000 delegates.
  
  According to the DNC rules, those delegates are "pledged" to him, and are bound to support his nomination.
  
  But if Mr Biden were to drop out, it would be a free-for-all. There is no official mechanism for him or anyone else in the party to choose his successor, meaning Democrats would be left with an open convention.
  
  Presumably, Mr Biden would have some sway over his pledged delegates, but they would ultimately be free to do as they please.
  
  That could lead to a frantic contest erupting among Democrats who want a shot at the nomination. Source
  
  2024 is going to be the year of frenzied elections with no preparation
  
  why wouldnt it go down the chain of succession? kamala harris
Biden drops out Trump wins. What is the point of this?
- The point is that there is now a credible fear that if Biden does not drop out, Trump wins.
  
  Replacing the candidate at the top of the ticket this late is a hail Mary, but it could bring unenthusiastic voters back into the Democratic tent.
  
  Trumps base is smaller, but passionate, they will show up. Biden doesn't really have followers, he has people that are just glad that he isn't Trump. But at this point it's embarrassing to even vote for him for that reason.... so people just won't show up to vote at all. All they have to do is have a sentient human that can complete a sentence and the hate for Trump will prevail. For the love of God. Do something DNC or Trump it is.
  
  I just can't believe everyone is acting all surprised that the dude that could barely complete a sentence when he was 77 didn't get mysteriously better now that he's 81. Who woulda thought?...
  
  We all know the DNC will do nothing, and Trump will win, and they are fine with it. Because they want to keep dragging this party to the right.
  
  And lose the incumbent bump? A wash at best
- Trump wins if biden stays. I will vote for potato Biden before Trump, but I literally barely give a shit. The bar is literally so low and the democrats found a way to still struggle against a hated criminal. For the love of GOD, run someone else now. I will vote for anyone other than Trump but the LONG list of people that just want a sane person in there and currently won't vote for either will probably show up if a sentient human was an option.
  
  New candidate, dems win. Sit around and do nothing, Trump wins. His smaller base is passionate. The democrats are pretty underwhelmed and embarrassed of Biden.
  
  I think what everyone needs to realize is that it's already too late. It's been too late and it was too late months ago. There are no other options. The world will suck but will most definitely suck less than one being led by Trump. You have two effective choices, vote Biden or don't. It's unfortunately all we have at this point.
- That's not guaranteed if Biden drops out before the DNC convention in August, where presumably another (possibly younger) candidate could be chosen.
- To get Trump to win so Project 2025 can happen
- Honestly... An unknown challenger from EITHER side may actually sweep this election. Both candidates are hated by their constituents more than any other president I've seen in living memory.
  
  Trump has the Republicans by the balls, but Biden doesn't. I fully support this, if the right candidate can be found. The DNC won't choose the right candidate, though... They are incompetent idiots.
  
  The really fucked up thing is that the challenger wouldn't be allowed onto every state ballot. The system is so tightly rigged its unbearable.
- Not necessarily….. blue maga will support whoever they choose regardless and if they choose someone other than Biden they have a chance at the youth and uncommitted voters.
My prediction is that one of them doesn’t make it to Inauguration Day and the country panics as a result. Is likely? No. But on this timeline it makes the most sense
- If Trump wins and dies before taking office would be a lot worse then Biden dieing.
  
  Before Trump's body is even cold there would be endless amount of conspiracies that Democrats killed Trump. The only saving grace would be Trump's VP and other blood suckers all have diarrhea for brains and lack the charisma to take advantage of the situation.
It's far too late for that, jackasses.
- It is, and it isn't... People love drama, and nothing about Trump's stance is based on tradition or stability.
  
  The right replacement could theoretically sweep the election. I just don't trust the DNC with this... So I guess I agree with you in the end.
It's almost like it was a stupid fucking decision in the first place to make Biden, Obama's embarrassing baggage, run for president.

So many of us fought this, and so many of us now hate the democratic party for this. They get zero sympathy from me at this stage.

I'm voting against Trump in this election just like I did in the last election, but after the conservatives retire the narcissistic criminal, all bets are off.
Maybe one of these people? Not that I like them, but they are not trump, have a chance, and are not on their deathbed.

Gretchen Whitmer

Pete buttigieg

Jamaal Bowman
- Maybe we should've had a real primary with debates and interviews and stuff =(
  
  We need an America 2 where we can apply all the lessons we've learned, like primary every election and judges that can be recalled easier for corruption.
- I'd take a Whitmer-Buttigieg ticket in a millisecond.
  
  That has a nice ring to it. You're on to something here.
- I'm convinced Whitmer refused the first time because she didn't want to suck the DNC's requirements so that they'd choose her as the preferred candidate in their sham primary.
I am right now drafting a message to send to the White House contact form advocating for just this. Will do nothing most likely, but it's my drop in the ocean.
It’s too late. They should have listened when we all said that before. But MMW, if they switch now they’ll not win in November. Stay the course and there’s a squeak of a chance.

Here’s the thing, if they push Biden out and pick Harris, she can’t beat Trump.

If they push Biden out and DONT pick Harris they’re literally telling the public that this presidency is not legitimate.
- If they push Biden out and DONT pick Harris they’re literally telling the public that this presidency is not legitimate.
  
  The rest of your post makes sense, but if they choose a new person to run they aren't admitting that this presidency is not legitimate. How the fuck do you even get yourself to this point? And how does this nonsense even have any upvotes?
  
  Because the DNC would be literally saying neither are competent to do the job.
Isn't it legally too late regardless? Don't they have to have their application and fee in by a certain date?
- Nope, he's not the official nominee until after the convention. Still not gonna happen, but technically could.
- Legally the party can do whatever they want: https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/
  
  The court affirmed that the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz held a palpable bias in favor Hillary Clinton.
  
  Wow, what a garbage site that grossly misrepresents what the judge said (and then went on to contradict this in the article). The judge didn't 'affirm' their claims of bias, but just assumed they were true because whether or not they are true makes no difference to the ruling, as they basically claimed it was the wrong place for the suit. They even explain later on that assuming the plaintiffs claims are true is a common practice when dismissing a case.
"Biden can’t be persuaded let alone pressured"

Which sums up both Biden's strength and all his problems in one statement.
Okay you know what? That's it, elections are cancelled until morale improves
- You joke, but that's exactly the next step trump will take if elected to secure "president for life" for the federalist society.
  
  Ah did he do that while being president? I didn't knew Biden was secretly a trump clone
The conspiracy theorists all say Joe is supposed to step down and Gavin Newsom somehow is added to the ticket which then will win. These conspiracy theorists also say that candidates are selected in advance by the powers that be and it’s all pagentry to deceive the gullible masses. If this is true, then Joe needs no convincing and this is already decided.
- I'd like to know what you're taking so I never take it.
  
  I just had a soda and a vegan burger. So... I guess eat meat and avoid high fructose corn syrup? 🫤
- Oh God, Gavin Newsom ruined SF, which gave him the credentials to ruin California. Now it gives him the credentials to ruin the country?
- I'd be cool with that
Not gonna happen. Also, the debate won't make any difference. People made up their minds a long time ago on Biden vs Trump they are clearly not budging no matter what happens with the candidates. Only if they fall over dead will they be replaced.
- The election will come down to like 2000 voters in some swing states. Even if 1% of people in those states changed their minds it could swing the election.
  
  Don’t expect removed to accept this. They’ll just huff their fucking copium as if Thursday didn’t happen.
  
  Independents and moderates are moving between the two equally for different reasons. Plenty of reasons why moderates despise Trump at the moment.
  
  That's true but it's also true that Biden being old and passed it would've been made clear to those voters through targeting advertising anyway.
  
  The same targeted advertising should be weaponed to communicate how dangerous trump is for the economy (tarrifs make cash machine stop burr), democracy (obviously), healthcare, middle income taxes and the broader high quality of life Americans enjoy.
- Clearly the blue team fans will simply abandon their team going into the superbowl.
- I mean, most of us will vote for ANYTHING over Biden. I said thing, not person. I'll vote for a cantaloupe over Trump.
  
  So this idea does, in fact, have merit.
Hate to give attention to polls, but pretty much all polls say otherwise, so "bot pushing narrative" orrrr?
I honestly think Bernie should run independent.

It's clear Biden has no chance of rapidly changing his policy or stance on anything, meaning he will most likely lose to Trump anyway.

Even if Bernie gets only 20% of votes, it would be enough to get the DNC to split.

And no that 20% would not have been stolen from Biden. I saw Hillary's horrendous turnout, people don't vote when there's not a candidate worth voting for.
- The problem with that isn't Bernie. The problem is Trump. Bernie splitting the Dem vote is a more sure-fire way to get Trump than Biden running as it is.
They should force Hillary on us again.

272 comments