Italy begins stripping lesbian mothers of their parental rights
One mom said she cried for 10 days after hearing she was being removed from her daughter's birth certificate...
One mom said she cried for 10 days after hearing she was being removed from her daughter's birth certificate.
you have to be sub-human trash to be ok with this
right-wing political parties have ''be sub-human trash' written in their manifesto and yet people vote them into power.
From the article "Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric a cornerstone of her campaign for office. She opposes allowing same-sex couples to adopt as well as marriage quality, calling civil union “good enough” for LGBTQ+ couples."
earlier, i wrote a comment saying not to use fascism to hate humanity; at the same time, the fact that fascists are also human is something we have to acknowledge so we can stop our loved ones from falling into it
The thought that keeps me sane through this is believing that the pendulum swings both ways. We have to accept that there are people who like this, and I'm going to hate them for it, but opposition will always exist.
On the whole (a long time) things in society have improved and they'll continue to improve over time. It might just be our lot to have a shit round.
Except for climate change. That's existential.
Disgusting comments from some pro-lifers on this thread. Throwing this child into an orphanage when they had a stable family already is the anti-thesis of pro family doctrine. It's hypocritical ultra right wing bigotry. All that remains of the right is their absolute hatred of the left. This really is the death of right wing majority governments. We saw their true colours during the January 6th capitol hill insurrection, during the BLM protests, during the Ukraine and Syria conflicts where Republicans teamed up with foreign enemy governments and during Obama's presidency.
These are the kinds of people who go to a book club meeting every Sunday for a book that clearly non of them have ever read.
It's insane that ultra-right fascists (in Italy and America at least) always define themselves as "Christian."
Christ would flip tables on them and pull out his whip
That's something I learned from reading too many books about WWII. It all started with the little things. What's that "first they came" quote again?
First they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the Socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
You know what's ironic about that quote, especially in the context of this thread? The group who they really came for first was the LGBTQ, not the Communists. Even in the act of lamenting his failure to speak out, Niemöller failed to speak out about them.
Another related "fun" fact: the very first NAZI book burnings "included around 20,000 unique works on intersexuality, homosexuality, and transgender topics" from the Institute of Sex Research.
The nazis absolutely came first for the communists, as that was literally part of their rise to power, blaming the communists for the Reichtagsbrand and jailing members of the KPD and SPD so they couldn't vote against the proposal to give the NSDAP full control.
Alternatively, the NSDAPs founding program 10 years earlier contained "revocation of the german citizenship of jews" as a main point, though they didn't have the ability to do much at the time.
The group who they really came for first was the LGBTQ
Thats still not really taught in german schools (or at least mine) even though we have this subject at least a whole year in history class.
And whats also not taught is that the more that ten thousand gay people that were thrown in KZs were only rehabilitated in 2001 and those that were sentenced after 1945 in 2017. After the Nazi regime was over the persecution of queer people did not just stop.
It's a bit more complicated as the whole of the SA was basically a gay orgy. Certainly not the queer kind of gay, though.
Yet another proof that religion doesn't help anyone
All you need for evil to prevail is "good boundaries."
It's maddening to watch all of the progress made around the world getting pushed back for no good reason aside from making a minority of the population uncomfortable—with their beliefs being based on lies and misinformation.
Edited to reword for clarity.
It's the last desperate lashing out of the old beast.
People have been saying the "last so and so" or the death roll, or the movement is dying out by attrition. I just wish I had your optimism. I mean I did, but as I grew (in 40s now), I noticed that the numbers don't matter when you have power and a plan. Just keep your opposition from organizing properly by controlling the message and manufacturing outrage for the supporters to talk about instead of actually problems. The media sells their story to make money and also distract from the real problems (their owners).
Did the average person hear about the Senate hearings during covid? The oil execs that stated their board of directors only care about making record breaking profits during the pandemc, instead of trying to alleviate the burden on the general population. They probably wanted a yacht for their yacht. Can't let a good opportunity to make money go to waste. It's actually against the CEOs fiduciary obligation to the board to not make as much money as possible. Even if they have to factor in payouts for a faulty product that kills someone the life cost doesn't matter, legal, the only obligation is fiduciary.
Sure we have the "numbers," but the numbers don't matter too much when the system is set up to be run by a smaller group of people that just have to keep others out and confuse the majority by making news harder to shift through.
I certainly hope we're seeing it dying. It will never completely go away, but we can hope it dwindles to the point where it has no power.
The thing is, they are only uncomfortable with it because some fascist politician is telling them to be uncomfortable with it. I am a same-sex married person with children. When people are face-to-face with a regular person like myself who happens to be married to someone of the same gender and has kids, most people actually have very little problem with it. But then some politician feeds them lies, lies that are then propagated on Facebook or Twitter, and suddenly they have an issue with the concept.
What is happening in Italy terrifies me. It's terrifying because it is the same slippery slope Russia went down and the same slippery slope we're heading down in the USA. We're watching it happen in real time with kids who are transgender. The GOP is not stopping there. They have already shown they are a full-on fascists. They will not stop until the USA is their authoritarian utopia.
This is EXACTLY my biggest worry and frustration. We are seeing a large group of people who think the way they are told to think and believe what they are told to believe. Unquestioningly.
These people cannot be reasoned with or educated when it comes to the subjects in question...
... except at the same time they're completely different when talking to individuals from the targeted groups face to face. I see it every day. For instance railing about something LGBTQ+ related from Faux Newz then greeting a friend and his husband 15 minutes later.
It's mind boggling: not just the behavior but the number of people who are so gullible.
Ribbit
Since the progressives and people who want redistribution of wealth, more regulation and bureaucracy, and for the state to take care of them are highly intersecting groups - I'd say they have made their bed and have to lie in it now.
It took just a little nudge, it seems, to make governments sufficiently insensitive and powerful again to start taking the rights one may consider secure, because it's other people being forced, not you, right?..
Sad but not surprised.
Still scary to see that it's Italy, not, you know, Hungary or Poland or at least Austria.
Love seeing the sheep who think that "progressives" are the problem will happily elect the assholes that expand government reach, take more of the peoples' money while simping for the rich, and work to screw the people the most in any other ways they can imagine.
People like you are the problem. It's just ridiculously easy to convince you simpletons it's not. Run on and piss off.
Hardcore conservatives do hardcore conservative things
Ignorant libertarians: "ackshually it's the progressives fault"
Italy: Women's role are to raise children.
Also Italy: No, not these women!
Shan-Yu: How many women does it take to raise a child?
Archer: pulling the bow string One.
I’m so sick of humanity.
inhumanity is guaranteed when a right-wing political party forms the government.
From the article "Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric a cornerstone of her campaign for office. She opposes allowing same-sex couples to adopt as well as marriage quality, calling civil union “good enough” for LGBTQ+ couples."
It’s hard to fathom how the people who enact these laws can fall asleep and feel like they’re doing something positive for the world.
they know they're being terrible. the cruelty is the point.
lmao
My daughter would loose her second mother though she has been there for her since birth and even before that.
My wife would not be allowed to sign a document for our daughter or visit her in the hospital when she is sick.
I absolutely don't know how the Italiens can accept such a move.
Cutely is the point.
Cruelty you mean? I hope at least
This sounds really bad and I'm afraid it's even worse than it sounds. For example, end of 2022 Italy introduced a law which bans certain types of harmless assemblies (rave parties) of more than 50 people (participants can be put to jail for up to 6 years). This is paving the road for cutting possibilities of people to protest against their government. (Imagine, there is a a protest and somebody plays music. The government will see a rave party.) Yet the Italian government seems to have no problem with 3000 neofascists visiting the hometown of Mussolini. And now this.
This isn’t completely true. The right of assembly is a constitutional right in Italy within small limits (the assembly must be peaceful, without firearms, and requires a notice to local authorities if it uses a public space, see art. 17.
Now, I don’t believe that a rave party falls within those protections as it isn’t protected speech (and I don’t believe there is a place where it is).
Italy will continue to have protests and marched, usually with music because Italy.
I'm curious if you feel the same way about Italy and nearly every other country already banning protests because "it's for yours or others safety" like they dd when they passed extremely Draconian covid policies.
And this is not hypothetical. Police didn't allow people to manifest against the gov.
What you say is bad, but it I hope people would be consistently appalled. Not just partisan based.
See this is what happens when you go to long without hanging all the fascists. Every 50 years or so you have to round them all up and find a gas station.
Out just talk about them never with them.
Dude, you're not much better if you write comments like this. Chill out man.
I don't want to be better, I want to be alive. These people want to destroy minorities. It is SELF DEFENCE for everyone that is a member of a minority group and everyone that supports minorities to want to destroy fascists.
None of this would be a fucking problem if you people actually did something about them in advance for once. Socialists recognise the need for re-education as a means of correcting when various parts of the population are going down the wrong path but liberals time and time again completely ignore the problem until it is too late plunging countries into conflict. You don't do jack shit until the only solution is violence when in reality it could be solved non-violently much much earlier if you acknowledge that these people need putting through rehabilitation facilities.
The fact of the matter is that it's already too fucking late for that. Both in america and in several other countries. The only option now is the inevitability of things progressing until violence.
Won't somebody think of the poor fascists?? T_T
That is sick. Absolutely sick.
Facists announcing that they will oppress minorities when they're being voted into power.
Gets voted into power. Oppresses minorities.
People
Under current Italian law, the member of a same-sex couple who is not legally recognized as a child’s parent could lose custody if the legally recognized parent dies or the relationship ends.
Shameful, hateful shit. What the hell Italy.
I'm gonna admit to doing the reddit thing where I read the title and the comments and start to form an opinion.
Reading your comment, I thought Hmm, well, that doesn't seem too unreasonable. Should a new partner in a separated-parents-scenario really have a claim on custody? Well, reading the actual article where same-sex couples get married and have children get the birth certificate retroactively changed to not include one of the parents is a whole different story.
Shameful, hateful shit. What the hell Italy.
Yeah, I'm with you. What the actual hell.
Gotta do something to distract from the abject poverty the government has driven the country into over the last 30 years. Back then, Italy was about as wealthy as Germany and France.
Even if they hate homosexual couples, doing this retroactively as a surprise brings this to a whole new level. Are there any ways for these people to reobtain their parental rights, like adoption?
They cannot legally adopt in Italy. And even if they could i am not sure if that wouldn't require the recognized parent to give them up first, so never both people can legally bebconsidered parents and have right to custody.
Sounds like a great way to lose lots of smart, educated, well funded professionals from your population. They know they're in the EU right?
Is this new? I mean was same sex couple adopting allowed and then dont? Or has it always been unrecognized?
This and the recent 10 second groping rule has Handmaid's tale written all over it. Horrible and disgusting.
News recently have me feeling like someone gave an assorted selection of dystopian fiction books to world leaders and told they were manuals.
The what rule...??
There is no good reason for this and this will cause a large amount of issues, let alone the pain it causes to the families affected by it.
This doesn’t seem purely populism for the anti-lgbtqia+ crowd, it seems too nuanced for that. I’m guessing it’s waiting until a high-placed official of the catholic church voices his support for Meloni during her next campaign.
EDIT: It already happend, she was endorsed by a Cardinal and several other members of the Italian church.
I still cannot understand why after all the child abuse revelations, why any endorsement by a church official is not met with an immediate "hell,no!".
Because people will defend the church at all costs, or else they risk questioning their own legitimacy.
The Italian church didn't fuck up as much as the Czech one, it seems.
My opinion is that state and law should not care about sex of a parent or partner. Just to guarantee us all the same rights.
My other option is that this is quite bad news article (thou that might not be news site, so it is not on them, but on us) since there are a lot of opinions but is hard to find any facts in it.
What exactly is the law? Who exactly is who? What are the consequences, practical not only emotional? This is raising fear levels, but I am not certain what to fight against (except whole Italian government).
That’s terrible… She’s her daughter in every way.
And the thought of losing your child if something happens to your partner, it breaks my heart.
And so it motherfucking begins 🤦
Where have you been for like the entire Berlusconi administration
But the mayor of Padua, Sergio Giordani, is defying the government’s orders and continuing to issue birth certificates recognizing two-mom families.
God bless this man. May the rest of Italy be so bold!
Despicable, fuck them fascists
Hey it's not like they're looking down the barrel of sea levels destroying Florence while the rest of the country is air fried, lots of time to waste with this frivolous nonsense.
I mean, they made a Mussolini fangirl prime minister. I’m honestly surprised they were able to keep the anti-lgbt agenda hidden this long.
Ok well I was never planning on going to Italy anyway. Sounds like a real shit hole.
Absolutely disgusting.
So what happens when a trans lesbian has a kid with a cis lesbian in the usual way children are made? Does the kid lose their sperm donor as a parent??
10 million hatreds upon those who have wronged us
Well that's horrible.
If the state infringes on your natural rights, just ignore it and defend your way of life through any means necessary
The ol "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" SovCit line lol
It's 52.2degrees in China, and we are worrying about this shit still
EDIT TO CLARIFY: I think people should be able to have a family made up of who ever they want. Being in a traditional family does not magically guarantee a safe space
Bro it's not even a "it's X in China" problem, Italy is being hit extremely hard by the climate crisis it's nust that the right wing doesn't give a shit because that would require pissing off the lobbies and actually having to do intelligent things that their voters don't like.
Not that the main available options for the left are any better tbh
There's literally a lot of posts talking about global warming. We can discuss both at the same time, you know.
This, and all the other extreme events happening all over the world, is exactly why these extremists are so succesful.
Right wing populists provides very simple (but of course blatantly wrong) answers to all the problems in the world: It is the fault of the minorities. It is much easier for people to accept such simple but moronic "solutions" instead of having to deal with the fact that reality is complex and that some problems are very difficult to solve.
These fascists are only going to get more succesful as things gets even worse. The economy is going to get gradually worse for the common man, the number of climate refugees will keep rising, wars for resources will occur (creating more refugees) and fascists will thrive with their seemingly simple solutions which will only help make matters even worse, since they will do nothing to combat climate change or change the economic system, and their nationalism will only make the risk of wars starting even greater.
populists provide very simple (but blatantly wrong) answers to all the problems in the world
See also, "eat the rich"
This, and all the other extreme events happening all over the world, is exactly why these extremists are so succesful.
No, the core reason is that people "care" about some one thing, maybe two or free, which make up their daily news.
There are mass murders, catastrophes, climate disasters all around the world all the time. Instead of this "daily news" algorithm one should pick the area (maybe a few) in which they want to help and do that. Make it unpaid work instead of virtue signalling.
Also I'm not arguing these people are fascists, but there are fascists doing much worse things, like honest to God mass murders, today on our planet. Yet they don't matter, because this is Italy and that is brown people killing each other.
Try to maintain your humanity and empathy for others, or what point is there to persist in our warming world?
But I want to see all of it.
Lmao tell me again how the US is soooo far to the right of "Europe"
I worry about them sometimes. If your entire culture is focused on a different one...
I dunno man, two dads sound fun, but 1 mum was enough for me.
What a sad news, anyways
So now we care about parental rights?
